Question about after death

[Laodicea]

The Bible says this about death
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

 

[feedm3]

yes upon the earth(under the sun), this what this entire section of scripture is about.

 

[shininglight]

I used to think of soul sleep as something that only Jehovah witnesses believed in and I would just completely dismiss the thought of it. After careful study though, I came to realize that the Bible isnt as explicit about the intermediate state as most people probably think. I realized that the argument for soul sleep was much stronger than I had anticipated. I still lean in favor of consciousness/awareness at death because there are a few verses in the new testament that strongly imply it. Every explanation for those new testament verses that I have heard by those who hold the view of soul sleep are not that convincing to me. The view of soul sleep seems to somewhat fit in the old testament, but it runs into some serious problems in the new testament.

....but I guess we will all eventually find out.

 

[Deadtosin]

JUST ONE VERSE that sez anyone goes to HEAVEN as soon as thy die? Dont guess now!!!!!

Nothing happens until all of the Prophecys are fulfilled, you dont get a free pass from Judgment, I think I seenit say once the MEEK shall inherit the earth.....WHO would be the MEEK?

Im fairly certain to USE YOUR words, your mistaken, but hey we all have to learn huh?

Isnt this fun reasoning the scriptures?

lol I already posted this

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise
Luke 23:43

 

[shininglight]

lol I already posted this

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise
Luke 23:43

They will try and say that the comma is in the wrong place and that it should read "Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in Paradise". Meaning Jesus didnt say that he would be with him in Paradise on that very same day.

 

[Deadtosin]

They will try and say that the comma is in the wrong place and that it should read "Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in Paradise". Meaning Jesus didnt say that he would be with him in Paradise on that very same day.

ahhh, well in that case call everything off!! lol jk

 

[chesser]

yeah...there are those who will say there is no judgment day but we are all sent where we are going right after death, but thats false, after you die, you soul goes back to god, then all will be raised on jugement day bible says"the seas will give up their dead" or somthing like that and we will all be juged, also, lazurus(the man jesus rose) was described as sleeping by Jesus, Ecclesiastes 9:5 says the dead know nothing, meaning they must have lost all conciousness.

 

[resurrection33]

I'm trying to work out what I believe regarding where we go after death and what state we are in. I believe the believers go right to Heaven after we die.. 2Cor 5:8 doesn't exactly say this and is often misquoted, but I think it is a good example. "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" I mean, if our souls do not go to Heaven I don't know where else they would go you know?

The second part to this is what state we are in, I know we will not have bodies until the coming of our Lord, but will we be conscience of our surroundings and will we know what is going on down on Earth? The only verse I can come up w/ is Rev 21:4 "and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." I know this is my dense earthly brain here but I can't imagine knowing what's happening on earth without sadness.
Opinions, verses are appreciated. Thanks.

I think life is eternal. It can be pleasant or unpleasant depending on how we behave ourselves.

 

[RedTent]

Almost everyone agrees there was a change in our world the day of the resurrection. Christ was crucified during Passover. This is a celebration of the night that the Jews were passed over because of the blood they were told to put on the doorposts, without the blood the first born sons died. This blood symbolized the blood Christ shed so we could be clean of our sins through asking forgiveness. We are passed over from death.

When Jesus died, the veil in the temple where blood sacrifices were taken split in two. The sacrifices had been a symbol of Christ’ blood, now that symbol was not needed any more as what it symbolized was completed.

No one really understands just went on in the Godly realms when Jesus died, but almost everyone understands there was a change.

Many of the biblical scholars think there was a change in death. In the OT it talks of death as “asleep with our fathers”. That is not how death is spoken of in the NT. On the cross Christ told one of the thieves he would be with him in paradise. Some scholars think that those who were “asleep with their fathers” could now be in paradise.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

I haven't seen anyone mention King David or Daniel. Here is a portion of "Do the saved go to heaven?" by David C. Pack of the Restored Church of God.

"The apostle Peter answers this question in his sermon delivered on the day
Christ built His Church: “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the
patriarch DAVID, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre [tomb] is with
us unto this day” (Acts 2:29).
David is literally “dead and buried.” You have almost certainly heard this
common phrase. It comes from this verse and is a reference to David’s whereabouts!
Some believe Peter’s statement was incomplete or he just forgot David
was in heaven. This is a ridiculous twisting of the verse. Here is what he said
five verses later, removing all doubt: “For David is NOT ascended into the
heavens…”
This is a direct statement. David is not in heaven. Yet God said that David
was “a man after Mine own heart” (Acts 13:22). If heaven is the reward of the
saved, and David did not make it, then nobody is going to make it.
David is in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the dead, when the just
receive their eternal inheritance.
This is a direct statement. David is not in heaven. Yet God said that David
was “a man after Mine own heart” (Acts 13:22). If heaven is the reward of the
saved, and David did not make it, then nobody is going to make it.
David is in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the dead, when the just
receive their eternal inheritance.
The Bible is quite specific about David’s coming resurrection—and his position
as a ruler over the tribes of Israel. It adds further proof that David is not alive
now but is, in fact, “dead and buried.” Centuries after David died, the prophet
Jeremiah said he would be resurrected: “But they [the twelve tribes of Israel]
shall serve the LORD their God, and DAVID their king, whom I will RAISE UP
unto them” (30:9). To “raise up” is to resurrect.
The prophet Ezekiel also foretold David’s resurrection: “And I will set up
one shepherd over them [the tribes of Israel], and he shall feed them, even My
servant DAVID; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the LORD
will be their God, and My servant DAVID a prince among them; I the LORD have
spoken it” (Ezek. 34:23-24). Also see 37:24.
Carefully read this verse with the whole chapter. It is obvious that Ezekiel
34 is talking about the physical tribes of Israel (vs. 2, 3, 30,"

To read the entire article Do the Saved Go to Heaven?

 

[Laodicea]

Luke 23:43
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
John 20:17
(17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Matthew 12:40
(40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The day Jesus died He did not go to paradise showing that the thief also did not go to paradise that day.

 

[Laodicea]

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

ALBERT BARNES' NOTES ON THE BIBLE

The souls of them that were slain - That had been put to death by persecution. This is one of the incidental proofs in the Bible that the soul does not cease to exist at death, and also that it does not cease to be conscious, or does not sleep until the resurrection. These souls of the martyrs are represented as still in existence; as remembering what had occurred on the earth; as interested in what was now taking place; as engaged in prayer; and as manifesting earnest desires for the divine interposition to avenge the wrongs which they had suffered.

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316

So which altar do you think it is that is in heaven? Revelation is symbolic, notice this verse
Leviticus 4:7
(7) And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
Leviticus 17:11
(11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

The word life in Leviticus 17:11 is translated from the same word as soul, so it could read the soul of the flesh is in the blood showing that Revelation is symbolic.

Genesis 4:10
(10) And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

So was the blood actually crying to God?

 

[feedm3]

Luke 23:43
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
John 20:17
(17) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Matthew 12:40
(40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The day Jesus died He did not go to paradise showing that the thief also did not go to paradise that day.

How do you know this? You are forcing paradise to mean, God's dwelling place, as in heaven. The fact Jesus said, "TODAY", there would be not a figurative interpretation for "today", it means what it means. If he had not ascended to the Father, yet he went to paradise, then Paradise must not be God's dwelling place.

It must be Hades, because we know for a fact this is where Jesus went when he died, because God "did not leave his soul in hades"(Acts 2), meaning death could not hold him. The place he went (Hades), he was not kept like everyone else, it is the same place Lazarus went to, also know as "Abraham's bosom'.

The suffering part of Hades, would be tartarus, where the the rich man went, and the angels that sinned that are awaiting judgement.

Hades (the unknown) has Paradise (comfort), and Tartars (suffering) both in it's realm.

Two have already been shown to be in Paradise - The thief, and Lazarus.

And two more examples of those in Tartarus, The rich man, the angels that sinned who are awaiting judgment.

The fact that you brought out these passages should prove to you, if Jesus went to Hades (acts 2), told the thief, "today" he would be with him there, and when he resurrected said he had not been to Father, then Paradise Cannot be God's dwelling place. this would not mean that what was told to the theif was untrue or figurative in some sense, it means your conclusion cannot be right.

 

[Graybeard]

Paradise is Hades????.......that's a new one!

 

[enochson]

Been there I know but the question is why speak about it when the unlearn and lame just start mocking because they don't want to know and are all puff up within themselfs. Someone said there was talk about abel blood but didn't see the post.

 

[Laodicea]

How do you know this? You are forcing paradise to mean, God's dwelling place, as in heaven. The fact Jesus said, "TODAY", there would be not a figurative interpretation for "today", it means what it means. If he had not ascended to the Father, yet he went to paradise, then Paradise must not be God's dwelling place.

It must be Hades, because we know for a fact this is where Jesus went when he died, because God "did not leave his soul in hades"(Acts 2), meaning death could not hold him. The place he went (Hades), he was not kept like everyone else, it is the same place Lazarus went to, also know as "Abraham's bosom'.

The suffering part of Hades, would be tartarus, where the the rich man went, and the angels that sinned that are awaiting judgement.

Hades (the unknown) has Paradise (comfort), and Tartars (suffering) both in it's realm.

Two have already been shown to be in Paradise - The thief, and Lazarus.

And two more examples of those in Tartarus, The rich man, the angels that sinned who are awaiting judgment.

The fact that you brought out these passages should prove to you, if Jesus went to Hades (acts 2), told the thief, "today" he would be with him there, and when he resurrected said he had not been to Father, then Paradise Cannot be God's dwelling place. this would not mean that what was told to the theif was untrue or figurative in some sense, it means your conclusion cannot be right.

Luke 23:43
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
2 Corinthians 12:4
(4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Revelation 2:7
(7) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

These verses show that paradise is in heaven where the tree of life is and the Bible is clear that Jesus did not go to paradise the day He died for when Jesus was resurrected He said He had not yet ascended to the Father also He spent 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. This means the translators put the comma in the wrong place. Punctuation was put in by the translators it was not part of the original.

 

[feedm3]

Luke 23:43
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
2 Corinthians 12:4
(4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Revelation 2:7
(7) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

These verses show that paradise is in heaven where the tree of life is and the Bible is clear that Jesus did not go to paradise the day He died for when Jesus was resurrected He said He had not yet ascended to the Father also He spent 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. This means the translators put the comma in the wrong place. Punctuation was put in by the translators it was not part of the original.

Yes I agree, after the death of Christ, there was no need for Hades(paradise), as he was the forerunner for us, into heaven. Those in suffering are still in suffering until the day of Judgement when death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire, As for the comma thing, I don't know, maybe you have something there. I will look into it a bit closer, let you know in a bit.


The third heaven can also be described as Paradise, because it is. Yet Jesus did not go there in his death, he went to Hades.

Acts 2:31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption

So speaking "of the Resurrection", he was in Hades, yet when he left the Apostles again, it was to Heaven.

When he ascended, he went to the third heaven:
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

 

[Laodicea]

Yes I agree, after the death of Christ, there was no need for Hades(paradise), as he was the forerunner for us, into heaven. Those in suffering are still in suffering until the day of Judgement when death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire, As for the comma thing, I don't know, maybe you have something there. I will look into it a bit closer, let you know in a bit.


The third heaven can also be described as Paradise, because it is. Yet Jesus did not go there in his death, he went to Hades.

Acts 2:31 he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption

So speaking "of the Resurrection", he was in Hades, yet when he left the Apostles again, it was to Heaven.

When he ascended, he went to the third heaven:
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us

Because the Bible never refers to Hades as paradise only heaven where the tree of life is then we should base our doctrine on that

 

[feedm3]

Paradise is Hades????.......that's a new one!

It may be new to you, but actually, not new at all. I believe "paradise" WAS Hades, as no one entered heaven before Christ. IT was a temporary holding place, until the blood was shed.

The Hebrews writer said it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats can take away sin.

Yet before Christ, this is what they used as a temporary remedy. Christ said, no man hath asecned into heaven, yet we see in Jude, the Lord will return with saints, and also we see Lazarus in paradise, and the thief was said as well to be there with Christ. Put all this together, with the book of Hebrews chapter 9, once the blood was shed, the veil was removed, and Christ entered into the most holiest, heaven, making it now possible for all others.

Moses and Elijah appeared talking with him, from where? Hades, until the ultimate sacrifice was made.

 

[Chadtreme]

The Word says when our Lord returns on the clouds those who are asleep (dead) will rise up first then we who are alive will be taken up to meet Him in the clouds.

There are many references to the passing of individuals as going to sleep with their fathers.

I do not understand from any Scripture that all go directly to the Lord when they die, rather they sleep until His return, then to be with Him forever.

As you know when we go to bed at night, as soon as we close our eyes it seems we are awake again after a night's sleep. I hope I am not the only one who feels this way.

Can you tell me the verse that says that the dead will raise up first? I heard my pastor say this a few times but I don't know the verse.