question about Grace.. Help..

[faithful1960]

I'm pretty new here.. and if anyone has read any of my previous posts.. I spoke on my Christian Husband recently (past month) leaving me after 8 years of marriage.. .. no reason he gave.. except that he was a loner.. and the reality that approx 1 year after we married starting drinking, and I found out he was an alcoholic before we got married from his mom. (which I did not know when I married him) that was one thing we talked about previous to marriage, and he was not truthful.. although in all other areas.. he is a very honest man.. stating.. that he has always been a loaner.. and feels he is living a lie by being married.. telling me I am his best friend and he doesnt want to lose me but doesnt want to be married.??? then he got into smoking this fake pot stuff that makes you high.. So.... to lay this all out, and by the way I am not trying to speak negative of him.. I still love him.. and he is my friend.. but because of all that happened I question my own faith..and my concern for his spiritual well being, I need help.. , I will go on with my question...

Here is my confusion.. Jesus shed his blood for us... and by Grace we are saved.. nothing of ourselves.but his gift.. . Being he was my spiritual leader in the home.. at least in the beginning He would say once saved always saved.. covered by Grace.. Covered by Grace..so confident that everything was covered by Grace.. with no reverential fear as it looked on the surface.. So now a bit of confusion....Maybe just my reverential Fear.. or maybe alot of confusion.. But here goes.. Almost daily.. for some time.. he would get drunk and high. and say he is covered by Grace.. then when he said he didnt want to be married. he would say he was covered by Grace.. When I read things like:

Hebrews 10:29.... How much more severly do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant.. that sanctified him and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace.

and Hebrews 10:26.. If we deliberatley keep on sinning after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, no sacrafice for sin is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God..

this concerns me.. to say Im saved by Grace.. and be able to choose to live your life mostly in the flesh.. .. and step away from going to church bible reading. at least what looks to be on the surface.. I would like to hope this is just a moment in his life.. and things might turn around.??? he previously.. was the most spiritual man I knew.. how does this happen??? AT the same time.. He never married till he was 40, and when we married. 8 years ago.. he is saying... he tried so hard to stick it out but he was meant to be a loner.. and points no blame on me.. .. maybe I am not confident that everything is covered.. ?????? should I be??? and if I should be then have I not accepted his Gift.. Cause he is overly confident. everything is covered.. he does have a conscience and there has been much tears on his part.. a man who never cried previously.. but I feel a bit lost these days.. Then I see scriptures like these.. :

Romasn 11:20-22 Granted, but they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by Faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches He will not spare you either.. Consider therefore kindness and sterness of God, sterness to those who fell, but kindess to you provided you continue in his kindness other wise you also will be cut off...

Ok in that scripture.. it starts talking about unbelief, but two words make me concerned....FELL... and CONTINUE.. or you also will be cut off???

And lastly.. the scripture 1st Corinthians 5:11 I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an Idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler, with such a man do not even eat.. Major confusion here... There is no adultry in this situation.. this is a loving man.. quiet. who drinks alot... Because he has chosen to leave.. where does that leave me.. Cause God hates divorce. If he is a Brother. as stated above and does this.. am I to abide by this scripture and "with such a man do not even eat" I am not perfect. far from it. but I did try to honor him, maybe I fell short.. But because his mom.. my example of a christian woman.. who I love and respect so much.. lived with her husband an alcoholic man who died from the alcohol.. there was a time.. I wanted out.. but because of her example.. and since the bible did not give a reason to divorce for alcoholism.. I had excepted..my lot in life.. to respect him and not leave him... knowing he was on a wrong path.and it may be a hard life.. . thinking.. if I was the wife in 1st peter.. I could bring him back.. Anyway.. I hope this doesnt sound like I am babbling. just trying to figure my life out.. in terms. of where I stand.. With God now.. and Gods expectations of me concerning my husband.. Please help.. A bit wounded here.. so hopefully noone will judge me on my lack of knowledge.. thank you so much..

 

[loveme1]

Acts 8

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

The mouth that shouts grace at all of his short comings is not yet willing.

The heart does not ask for mercy.

They have said a prayer with their lips but not their heart.

Love and Liberty stay in perfect balance if the heart is the weight.

 

[Skinski7]

I'm pretty new here.. and if anyone has read any of my previous posts.. I spoke on my Christian Husband recently (past month) leaving me after 8 years of marriage.. .. no reason he gave.. except that he was a loner.. and the reality that approx 1 year after we married starting drinking, and I found out he was an alcoholic before we got married from his mom. (which I did not know when I married him) that was one thing we talked about previous to marriage, and he was not truthful.. although in all other areas.. he is a very honest man.. stating.. that he has always been a loaner.. and feels he is living a lie by being married.. telling me I am his best friend and he doesnt want to lose me but doesnt want to be married.??? then he got into smoking this fake pot stuff that makes you high.. So.... to lay this all out, and by the way I am not trying to speak negative of him.. I still love him.. and he is my friend.. but because of all that happened I question my own faith..and my concern for his spiritual well being, I need help.. , I will go on with my question...

Here is my confusion.. Jesus shed his blood for us... and by Grace we are saved.. nothing of ourselves.but his gift.. . Being he was my spiritual leader in the home.. at least in the beginning He would say once saved always saved.. covered by Grace.. Covered by Grace..so confident that everything was covered by Grace.. with no reverential fear as it looked on the surface.. So now a bit of confusion....Maybe just my reverential Fear.. or maybe alot of confusion.. But here goes.. Almost daily.. for some time.. he would get drunk and high. and say he is covered by Grace.. then when he said he didnt want to be married. he would say he was covered by Grace.. When I read things like:

Hebrews 10:29.... How much more severly do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant.. that sanctified him and who has insulted the Spirit of Grace.

and Hebrews 10:26.. If we deliberatley keep on sinning after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, no sacrafice for sin is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God..

this concerns me.. to say Im saved by Grace.. and be able to choose to live your life mostly in the flesh.. .. and step away from going to church bible reading. at least what looks to be on the surface.. I would like to hope this is just a moment in his life.. and things might turn around.??? he previously.. was the most spiritual man I knew.. how does this happen??? AT the same time.. He never married till he was 40, and when we married. 8 years ago.. he is saying... he tried so hard to stick it out but he was meant to be a loner.. and points no blame on me.. .. maybe I am not confident that everything is covered.. ?????? should I be??? and if I should be then have I not accepted his Gift.. Cause he is overly confident. everything is covered.. he does have a conscience and there has been much tears on his part.. a man who never cried previously.. but I feel a bit lost these days.. Then I see scriptures like these.. :

Romasn 11:20-22 Granted, but they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by Faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches He will not spare you either.. Consider therefore kindness and sterness of God, sterness to those who fell, but kindess to you provided you continue in his kindness other wise you also will be cut off...

Ok in that scripture.. it starts talking about unbelief, but two words make me concerned....FELL... and CONTINUE.. or you also will be cut off???

And lastly.. the scripture 1st Corinthians 5:11 I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an Idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler, with such a man do not even eat.. Major confusion here... There is no adultry in this situation.. this is a loving man.. quiet. who drinks alot... Because he has chosen to leave.. where does that leave me.. Cause God hates divorce. If he is a Brother. as stated above and does this.. am I to abide by this scripture and "with such a man do not even eat" I am not perfect. far from it. but I did try to honor him, maybe I fell short.. But because his mom.. my example of a christian woman.. who I love and respect so much.. lived with her husband an alcoholic man who died from the alcohol.. there was a time.. I wanted out.. but because of her example.. and since the bible did not give a reason to divorce for alcoholism.. I had excepted..my lot in life.. to respect him and not leave him... knowing he was on a wrong path.and it may be a hard life.. . thinking.. if I was the wife in 1st peter.. I could bring him back.. Anyway.. I hope this doesnt sound like I am babbling. just trying to figure my life out.. in terms. of where I stand.. With God now.. and Gods expectations of me concerning my husband.. Please help.. A bit wounded here.. so hopefully noone will judge me on my lack of knowledge.. thank you so much..

Paul wrote this...

Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Thus in a situation where a spouse chooses to leave we are not to stop them for God calls us to peace.

The reason you are seeing an apparent contradiction between what you perceive as grace and warnings in scriptures like Heb 10:26 and Rom 11 is due to a faulty understanding of what grace actually means.

Grace in the Greek is Charis and is defines as follows...

[Strongs] Grace - charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

[Vines] Grace - charis
has various uses, (a) objective, that which bestows or occasions pleasure, delight, or causes favorable regard; it is applied, e.g., to beauty, or gracefulness of person, Luke 2:40; act, 2 Cor. 8:6, or speech, Luke 4:22, RV, "words of grace" (AV, "gracious words"); Col. 4:6; (b) subjective, (1) on the part of the bestower, the friendly disposition from which the kindly act proceeds, graciousness, loving-kindness, goodwill generally, e.g., Acts 7:10; especially with reference to the Divine favor or "grace," e.g., Acts 14:26; in this respect there is stress on its freeness and universality, its spontaneous character, as in the case of God's redemptive mercy, and the pleasure or joy He designs for the recipient; thus it is set in contrast with debt, Rom. 4:4,16, with works, Rom. 11:6, and with law, John 1:17; see also, e.g., Rom. 6:14,15; Gal. 5:4; (2) on the part of the receiver, a sense of the favor bestowed, a feeling of gratitude, e.g., Rom. 6:17 ("thanks"); in this respect it sometimes signifies "to be thankful," e.g., Luke 17:9 ("doth he thank the servant?" lit., "hath he thanks to"); 1 Tim. 1:12; (c) in another objective sense, the effect of "grace," the spiritual state of those who have experienced its exercise, whether (1) a state of "grace," e.g., Rom. 5:2; 1 Pet. 5:12; 2 Pet. 3:18, or (2) a proof thereof in practical effects, deeds of "grace," e.g., 1 Cor. 16:3, RV, "bounty" (AV, "liberality"); 2 Cor. 8:6,19 (in 2 Cor. 9:8 it means the sum of earthly blessings); the power and equipment for ministry, e.g., Rom. 1:5; 12:6; 15:15; 1 Cor. 3:10; Gal. 2:9; Eph. 3:2,7. To be in favor with is to find "grace" with, e.g., Acts 2:47; hence it appears in this sense at the beginning and the end of several Epistles, where the writer desires "grace" from God for the readers, e.g., Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; in this respect it is connected with the imperative mood of the word chairo, "to rejoice," a mode of greeting among Greeks, e.g., Acts 15:23; Jas. 1:1 (marg.); 2 John 1:10,11, RV, "greeting" (AV, "God speed").
The fact that "grace" is received both from God the Father, 2 Cor. 1:12, and from Christ, Gal. 1:6; Rom. 5:15 (where both are mentioned), is a testimony to the deity of Christ. See also 2 Thess. 1:12, where the phrase "according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" is to be taken with each of the preceding clauses, "in you," "and ye in Him."
In Jas. 4:6, "But He giveth more grace" (Greek, "a greater grace," RV, marg.), the statement is to be taken in connection with the preceding verse, which contains two remonstrating, rhetorical questions, "Think ye that the Scripture speaketh in vain?" and "Doth the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) which He made to dwell in us long unto envying?" (see the RV). The implied answer to each is "it cannot be so." Accordingly, if those who are acting so flagrantly, as if it were so, will listen to the Scripture instead of letting it speak in vain, and will act so that the Holy Spirit may have His way within, God will give even "a greater grace," namely, all that follows from humbleness and from turning away from the world. See BENEFIT, BOUNTY, LIBERALITY, THANK.
Note: The corresponding verb charitoo, "to endue with Divine favor or grace," is used in Luke 1:28, "highly favored" (marg., "endued with grace") and Eph. 1:6, AV, "hath made ... accepted;" RV, "freely bestowed" (marg., "enduced.").

Vines Topical Bible

When examined in context of how the term is used it is clearly seen that grace is the favourable provision of God provided freely to all men and is inclusive of many different aspects.

You specifically mentioned continuing in willful sin and being covered by grace. Paul address this specifically in Romans 5 and 6 where he wrote...

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

It was purely by God's graciousness that He sent His Son to die on the cross. We didn't deserve it and we cannot merit it in any way. God freely chose to do it because He loved us (Joh 3:16).


Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice in verse 20 Paul speaks of how "grace abounded" where sin abounded. Paul is teaching that God's graciousness, His mercy, His provision, His influence, all abounds even when people are in rebellion. The more people sinned the more God's grace abounded. This poses a question...

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Grace IS NOT a cover for ongoing sin. Grace abounding when sin abounds is simply God's forbearance and long suffering while he waits for men to repent. Here is what Paul wrote in Romans 2...

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

It is pure deception to believe that one can keep sinning willfully against grace and remain in a justified state. You husband is deceived in believing this and is most assuredly not saved and has no concept of what salvation actually means. In his mind salvation is merely "wrath protection" or a method by which "he can sin and surely not die."

How did Paul answer the question he posed in Rom 6:1? Let's take a look...

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[Skinski7]

Are you and your husband "dead to sin"? Is your old man crucified with him? Has the body of sin been destroyed?

Paul elaborates on what it means to have had the old man crucified for he wrote...

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Anyone who is yielding to the affections and lusts in disobedience to God (walking in the flesh) IS NOT Christ's for those that are Christ's HAVE crucified the flesh with its affections and lusts.

This is why Paul wrote this...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We are a slave to whom we obey. One cannot be yielding to sin (getting drunk) and be a servant of righteousness at the same time. Jesus made this statement...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Notice Jesus plainly stated that if you commit sin you are the servant of sin. Paul simply said you are a slave to whom YOU obey.

Jesus said that He can make you free (Joh 8:36) and Paul said that those who have died with Christ have been set free from sin (Rom 6:7). You cannot be a servant of sin and have been set free from sin at the same time. They are opposites.

One of the reasons Jesus came was to...

it 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Redeem means ransom. Jesus purchased us from our enslavement to sin that we may be purified. We escape the bondage of sin by dying with Jesus Christ in repentance, this is what Paul is speaking of in Romans 6:4-7. Those who go through this process of "dying with Christ" and are then "raised up by the power of God" are no longer slaves to sin. Sin does not rule over us, we rule over it. We are no longer enslaved by the lusts of the flesh.

A true Christian HAS ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

If an individual is still yielding to the lusts of the flesh and sinning then they have not escaped but are actually still enslaved to their flesh.

This is why the Bible states...

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

God quickens our mortal bodies through the Spirit (ie. we are renewed). It is through the Spirit that we mortify or put to death the deeds of the body, in doing so we shall live. A person who is getting drunk is not doing this, they are living after the flesh and they need to do the first works and REPENT.

Grace is the source of our salvation for it is the leading and provision of God. We have to apply it by faith which is why Paul wrote this...

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

We access grace through faith.

Paul also wrote this...

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

We receive grace for obedience. Obedience to what? Obedience to what grace teaches...

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Notice it is the grace of God THAT BRINGS SALVATION that teaches us. We access this grace through faith and we receive this grace for obedience.

We receive this grace in VAIN if we don't utilise it by WORKING TOGETHER with God.

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

The grace of God brings HEART PURITY when we yield to it. We yield to it via FAITH.

This is why the Bible teaches that FAITH PURIFIES THE HEART.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Thus if you put everything I have written above together it sheds a whole new light on...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Most of professing Christianity is in ERROR regarding the above passage for they perceive salvation as a forensically applied free gift which is received by simply trusting in it. This is what I think you and your husband believe.

You view salvation as an abstract provision which is completely separate from the things you actually do. There is no "heart purity" connected to "salvation" in your mind. That is a very dangerous error to be under.

Yet it is wonderful that you are concerned about those verses you raised. Those verses are in the context of salvation as I explained it where salvation is not only being set free from the condemnation of sin but also being set free from the BONDAGE of sin.

True Christian's HAVE STOPPED SINNING. I am not saying that true Christian's do not make mistakes and miss the mark. What I am saying is that the willful sins of yielding to the flesh in disobedience to God has stopped. There is no such thing as a Christian drunk/fornicator/murderer/idolator/thief etc.

Have a look at this passage...

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


Jesus died so that our PAST REBELLION be forgiven. Jesus did not die so that ONGOING REBELLION be covered. No way!

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Which is why...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Any person who willfully sins against their knowledge of the truth is under condemnation. There are many false teachers who explain away such a warning in order to give a false assurance to people that they can willfully sin and remain justified. It is a lie, do not be deceived by their smooth words of death.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Drunkards WILL NOT inherit the kingdom.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

 

[kenisyes]

Your husband is slowly making a choice against God. Eventually, if you stay with God, he will either repent and return to God, and thus to you, or leave God and you with Him. When and if that happens, the authority and covering for your life passes back to Jesus (you will have the spiritual authority over the children and household that belonged to him). Since he will be leaving you over your relationship with God, you will be free to marry again. The trouble is knowing just when it happens, i.e, when he has made up his mind for good. I've been through this with a couple ex-wives in the course of my ministry, and God seems to confirm it by formal divorce proceedings, or by some definite act, like moving out and disappearing. Just disappearing leaves you in a difficult spot legally, of course. There's not much you can do except to pray and get some understanding Christian fellowship in the meantime.

In response to the specific Scriptures, in my opinion the one about the "believing wife sanctifying the unbelieving husband" and the one about giving each other a "mutually agreed on time to seek the Lord" (I Cor 7:5) trump the one about "not being unequally yoked"; God created marriage as a joint ministry, and as long as he is willing to let you stay in his life, you are a channel of grace to him just by your being who you are. I do not believe in teaching "once saved always saved", and having seen this happen to other women with eventual finality is one of the reasons why. It's not ours to judge whether people are really saved or not, but the reality is to recognize that many people claiming to be saved fall away, and ruin other peoples' lives for a while doing it. A person is not permitted to continue in sin claiming he is covered by grace; something else is wrong, and if he cares about God, he will find out what it is and fix it. If he lets you help him seek God to fix it, the two of you will be so much closer in the long run. But it's his choice.

 

[Cobus]

Faithful1960. I doubt your husband was EVER a Christian. So actually it is good news for him. I am refering to the verse that if we have had the TRUTH as a Christian, and we fall away there is not more sacrafice for that. This is why I KNOW I am not saved yet. To be saved is to be saved FULLY from the old man. That means even the thought's of the new man is new.

I know God knows when we will not commit a sin again. Let us take one of your husband's sins. God will know when that man had enough of adultry. Or when he will for the last time break the marriage. God knows when a person has repented from a sin FOREVER. And so ALL sin should be broken for the children of God. Jesus says in 1 John 3 that HE CAME TO DESTROY the works of Satan, for all God's chldren. Imagine Jesus destroys the lust for alchahol for your husband, do you think he will ever have another drink. NO! Impossible.... 1 John 3:9...

So if I have to give my thought on your husband, I doubt he EVER entered into the narrow gate. Here is my reason.... Jesus says that HE is the GATE to the sheepfold of God. The place where all God's sheep gather, but there is a PORTER that will open the gate.... This PORTER is our conscience and NO FOUL CONSCIENCE WILL LET A SHEEP THROUGH!

So even if you have one little thing on your conscience the PORTER will not let you through! that is why your husband cannot go through he could not have had a pure conscience to let him through. One sin in secret, is enough to keep a person out. So maybe God is calling your husband to save him.

 

[Blain]

faithful i predicted to you in your other thread your husband will return to faith- and i stand by that prediction. he cries out of guilt which is a sign he knows the path he must go on. god has chosen you to save him again. even the strongest people of faith can fall and i believe he certainly was a true man of christ before regardless what some here say. remeber when you asked if god knew you would dig deeper into your faith if this happened? doesn't it kind of make sense that the reason this has happened and the reason you have dug deeper is god using you to save your husband? these verses you read are meant for people who love to make up ways to sin and hate then light, but your husband does not fit into this category because he was once a man of good faith- these people whom the verses speak of were not. your husband is just lost right now and like i said god has chosen you to save him. ignore these people who say he was never saved. did jesus give up on the horrible people in his day? no, he loved and cared for them and did whatever he could for them. we must follow his example

 

[faithful1960]

Thank you for all your help... Skinski7.. there are so many wonderful scriptures... you must of spent so much time.. Not everything has sunk in.. I am taking babystep at a time.. I dont know if I understood your comment:

You view salvation as an abstract provision which is completely separate from the things you actually do. There is no "heart purity" connected to "salvation" in your mind. That is a very dangerous error to be under

as I do believe there is heart purity connected to salvation.. But it is his pureness.. that has changed me.. made us clean.. as nobody is without sin..no longer am I concerned about the law.. as his great love drives me to not want to do the things I could of done years ago, so I find myself aligned with the Law so to speak. The Greatest Commandment to Love the Lord thy God with all your heart with all your soul and mind.. and love your neighbor as yourself.. If you have that love.. it just seems to cover all the laws..as his word becomes written in your heart.. it is purity of heart..the reverential fear isnt fear of punishment.. although he chastises his children.. but knowing his love.. you never want to be seperated.. But in the case of my husband.. Years ago he was the man. who walked the walked.. and it was evident.. the light within him.. Its as if he slowly day by day he fell to substances.. that he thought ok in moderation.. then he got blind.. its as if his Armor..( the bible).. is right there next to him.. but the devil has a blindfold on him and he cant see.. and he is sure he is ok... So if what so many teach, once saved always saved.. either he has a greater faith than I do cause he is absolutely sure of his salvation.. and knows he is covered by grace.. so I question is my faith lacking.. or is there reason I have such reverential fear.. that either once saved not always saved.. as in the branches being loped off.. or is it even possible.. with the kind of man he was.. that he was never saved at all... he was the only man I knew who couldnt even tell a tiny lie.. he was the one who helped the poor.. wrote to those in prison. all these things out of love not duty.. and told me.. once when I didnt want to go to church.. When you dont want to go thats when you need to go the most.. He is the one who prayed over me.. and with me.. he is the one who insisted.. no premarital sex.. and told me before we married.. that he didnt just want a wife that went to church, he wanted a wife that lived her faith.. so do I believe he wasnt saved.. No.. I believe he was.. thats why I am confused now.. I appreciate.. everyones Godly Advice..I dont want to lean on my own understanding. By reading his word. he is slowly revealing things to me..thanks to everyone here your remembrance of relevent scriptures.. is really helping me.. I trust the promise.. Seek and YOu shall find.. Knock and the door shall be open... I may not be as wise as many on this site.. but one thing I know.. is his promises are real and I am determined to continue to seek his wisdom.. and put Him first in my life.. I just cant stop loving my husband.. and as much as it would be nice if the marriage was healed. I am more concerned about what is happening to him spiritually..

 

[Cobus]

Give your husband one VERSE.... He reckons he is covered no matter what, but look what Paul taught....
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
So God forbid that we continue to sin, even though we ar under grace. I think God's grace is love, and love will STOP SINNING!

 

[damombomb]

For someone to completely lose their salvation, they would have to commit the unpardonable sin,
Rev2:4-7Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. This is speaking of backsiders

If he truly has a calling from God, he will be miserable till he comes back

 

[Skinski7]

Thank you for all your help... Skinski7.. there are so many wonderful scriptures... you must of spent so much time.. Not everything has sunk in.. I am taking babystep at a time.. I dont know if I understood your comment:

You view salvation as an abstract provision which is completely separate from the things you actually do. There is no "heart purity" connected to "salvation" in your mind. That is a very dangerous error to be under

as I do believe there is heart purity connected to salvation.. But it is his pureness.. that has changed me.. made us clean.. as nobody is without sin..no longer am I concerned about the law.. as his great love drives me to not want to do the things I could of done years ago, so I find myself aligned with the Law so to speak. The Greatest Commandment to Love the Lord thy God with all your heart with all your soul and mind.. and love your neighbor as yourself.. If you have that love.. it just seems to cover all the laws..as his word becomes written in your heart.. it is purity of heart..the reverential fear isnt fear of punishment.. although he chastises his children.. but knowing his love.. you never want to be seperated.. But in the case of my husband.. Years ago he was the man. who walked the walked.. and it was evident.. the light within him.. Its as if he slowly day by day he fell to substances.. that he thought ok in moderation.. then he got blind.. its as if his Armor..( the bible).. is right there next to him.. but the devil has a blindfold on him and he cant see.. and he is sure he is ok... So if what so many teach, once saved always saved.. either he has a greater faith than I do cause he is absolutely sure of his salvation.. and knows he is covered by grace.. so I question is my faith lacking.. or is there reason I have such reverential fear.. that either once saved not always saved.. as in the branches being loped off.. or is it even possible.. with the kind of man he was.. that he was never saved at all... he was the only man I knew who couldnt even tell a tiny lie.. he was the one who helped the poor.. wrote to those in prison. all these things out of love not duty.. and told me.. once when I didnt want to go to church.. When you dont want to go thats when you need to go the most.. He is the one who prayed over me.. and with me.. he is the one who insisted.. no premarital sex.. and told me before we married.. that he didnt just want a wife that went to church, he wanted a wife that lived her faith.. so do I believe he wasnt saved.. No.. I believe he was.. thats why I am confused now.. I appreciate.. everyones Godly Advice..I dont want to lean on my own understanding. By reading his word. he is slowly revealing things to me..thanks to everyone here your remembrance of relevent scriptures.. is really helping me.. I trust the promise.. Seek and YOu shall find.. Knock and the door shall be open... I may not be as wise as many on this site.. but one thing I know.. is his promises are real and I am determined to continue to seek his wisdom.. and put Him first in my life.. I just cant stop loving my husband.. and as much as it would be nice if the marriage was healed. I am more concerned about what is happening to him spiritually..

It is very important to understand what salvation actually is. One reason that so many people fall into deceptive doctrines is because they have an incorrect understanding of what salvation actually is. They view it in an abstract manner. What I mean by that is they have been taught that they "are something in Christ which is not necessarily reflected in their actual conduct." Thus salvation is viewed in a forensic manner, it is viewed as a "position" that one holds.

Most modern Christianity teaches salvation in this abstract positional manner. Thus when a "professing Christian" is yielding to sin then it is not viewed as actually effecting their positional/abstract salvation. There is a disconnect between "deeds" and being 'in Christ." This is why Christian counselors will often advise people that "they need to know who they are in Christ" so that "their identity in Christ can be manifested outwardly."

The truth though is there is no such disconnect in reality. What you do reflects who you are. A good tree bears good fruit.

Any person who is yielding to sin is not saved. Why is this?

Jesus came to save people FROM their sins.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Pay attention that He did not come to save them IN their sins. There is a very big difference.

The people of Israel were saved FROM their bondage in Egypt. They were not set free IN their bondage in Egypt. They left Egypt and entered the wilderness.

It is no different for a Christian. A true Christian has been set free from the bondage of sin through repentance and faith and they have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ. They have been set apart unto holiness.

One is not set free from the bondage of drunkenness or immorality so that they can continue in bondage.

We are slaves to whom we obey (Rom 6:16) thus if you still obey sin then you are still in bondage to sin.

"Once Saved Always Saved" is an error rooted in deeper and more fundamental errors. One of those errors is viewing salvation in an abstract manner whereby one can still be yielding to sin and be saved at the same time. Salvation is not some ticket you hold to eternal life, salvation is an actual STATE OF EXISTENCE.

A prisoner who is set free from prison does not remain locked in his prison cell. If he remains locked in his cell then clearly he is not free. It is no different with a Christian and sin. We have either been set free from the bondage of sin or we have not.



I find it very hard to believe that someone could "be saved" in reality and then later come to a belief that "grace covers ongoing willful sin." Any person who comes through a genuine repentance experience and is reconciled to God through Jesus Christ knows very well what has happened to them. They know what it means to go from darkness to light, they know what it means to have escaped the lusts of the flesh. To somehow later come to a conclusion that one can go back into bondage and remain "saved" is quite erroneous.

What this tells me is that your husband always viewed salvation in an abstract manner yet lived a more moral life than he does now. Yet this morality was done in the flesh and not in the Spirit and that is why it did not last. There have been many ascetics (holy living people) throughout history who have lived their holiness in the flesh. It is only an outward form of righteousness. It is not the heart purity that can only be wrought through the grace of God.

He may have had a "notion" of being saved but it was not the real deal. There are many people today with a "notion" they are saved yet they still live in the flesh. Many of these people are nice and moral people but they have not truly been set free from their sin because they were never taught what true repentance is.

Without a a godly sorrow which works a broken repentance unto salvation one CANNOT be reconciled to God. The old man has to die once and for all. The old man dying is not a partial reform of conduct, rather is is a complete change. ALL THINGS become new.

That you think that OSAS "could be" true shows that you don't understand what salvation actually is. I don't say this to offend you, I am just being truthful. It is simply impossible to understand salvation and believe in OSAS simply because when you are saved you KNOW you can turn back to sin if you are complacent and you know absolutely that indulging in sin is enslavement to sin.

Dig into the scriptures like your life depended on it because it does. Beware of most of what is proclaimed as Christianity today. Jesus taught that the way to eternal life is through the straight gate and narrow way and that FEW will find it.

 

[Skinski7]

The root error which leads to the faulty conclusion that salvation is positional or abstract is the doctrine of "being born a sinner."

Under this teaching sin is recognised as the natural state of humanity. One CANNOT forsake their humanity and thus one CANNOT forsake their sin. Thus salvation is twisted to fit this paradigm and applied in a positional sense. Therefore the "Finished Work of Jesus Christ" is taught as a COVER for the NATURAL STATE OF REBELLION IN MAN. Thus you are saved IN your sins instead of FROM them.

These conclusions FORCE grace to be taught as a COVER for ongoing rebellion. One error simply necessitates more errors and thus this is all a case of a LITTLE LEAVEN leavening the whole lump. Original Sin is the little leaven which completely DESTROYS the Gospel.



The truth is that sin is a moral choice instead of being something that is born in you. A "sin nature" grows as sin is yielded to over time because our brains hardwire patterns of conduct. Thus sin begets more sin.

Studies have clearly shown that drugs like Cocaine and even the viewing of pornography create neuron pathways in the brain. This is why certain behaviours become addictive. When a person chooses to sin it leads them into being in bondage to sin.

Jesus Christ came to rescue sinners from their bondage. He not only sets us free from the bondage of sin but also died so that our past rebellion can be washed away. Thus we can be reconciled to God with a clear conscience.

When a sinner repents and turns to God they will be quickened in their mortal body. In a sense they will become ADDICTED to God which I believe is God's intention in how we are actually designed. When human beings turn away from God "other things" fill the void of addiction and thus bondage results.

If we meditate on the things of God all the time (put on the whole armour of God) it is very potent.

Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Thus who did Jesus say He fills?

Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[Ugly]

You need to be careful here not to take guilt and responsibility on yourself over this. You say you are comparing yourself to his mother, and how she stayed married to an alcoholic til he died. Our standards are not set by other people, not matter how strong or spiritual they maybe. If you're comparing yourself to this woman and thinking 'she did it, so i can to' is a wrong mentality.
Also, to assume that being a 'good enough' wife will fix him isn't accurate either. People don't magically stop being addicted to Anything only because they have a loving, faithful wife. Sure, that may help a person actively struggling to quit an addiction, but is usually not enough to make one decided to quit. The decisions for someone with a family history of alcoholism to start drinking, and to quit, is something internal in that person and likely has little if anything to do with you.
So on the basis of these two things you need to let go of any responsibility you take in his drinking. It wasn't because you weren't a 'good enough' wife. And it doesn't matter what any other wife was able to do or not do.

 

[faithful1960]

I have lots to think aoout.. Even more so the desire to study his word so I know what I know what I know.. is truth. Thankyou... I willl still rely on his promises. I will seek... study his word. pray... put on the whole armor.. and I believe with all my heart.. he will guide me.. in the right directions.. cause he said seek and ye shall find..