Question, should Christians be happy and joyful all the time?

[Miri]

Well, if the joy of the Lord (a fruit of the Spirit) is your strength (as it ought to be) then you should be joyful under all circumstances, and be at peace in midst of tribulation. That is what the Lord expects.

Of course , we are to rejoice with them to do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. But that is a separate issue.

Can you give examples of when this has been the case for yourself, see my post above.

 

[posthuman]

To try to appear happy and joyful in all situations is to deny your true feelings and suppress them. This is by no means healthy. Nor is it possible to always be happy and joyful.

worse than merely unhealthy, at some point in time it is lies.

 

[posthuman]

Well, if the joy of the Lord (a fruit of the Spirit) is your strength (as it ought to be) then you should be joyful under all circumstances, and be at peace in midst of tribulation. That is what the Lord expects.

Of course , we are to rejoice with them to do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. But that is a separate issue.

the joy of the Lord is indeed our strength -- and His strength is made perfect in weakness

we are to "be thankful in all circumstances" -- which isn't the same, at every point in time, as joyful.

but for everyone whose life is in Him, darkness will become like morning

"why are you downcast, o my soul?
i will yet praise Him"

 

[notmyown]

when God tells is His joy is our strength, that word means a refuge, a hiding place, a stronghold...

not gym muscles. lol

as believers, we can hide (and, indeed, are hidden!) in our God, our stronghold. we can know He rejoices over His own. (Zeph 3) i do believe it's Father God's joy in His Son and His people being spoken of in Nehemiah. isn't that wonderful!

somehow this is a piece of the puzzle, Miri, don't you think? when troubled times come, we are yet in Christ.

(it don't always look like a party, though. the Psalms are replete with sadness, yet always end with trusting in the Most High God. that's a good place to be!)

 

[Depleted]

I went to a small house group this evening, and this subject came up.

Everyone there seemed to think the answer was yes, one man actually
said we should all be happy and smile all the time because of what
Jesus has done for us, we should feel happy and blessed all the time.

To be honest I was thinking “I would like to see how that works out
for you when you are talking and praying with someone who says
their lung cancer has come back for the second time and is untreatable!”

Or “I would like to see if you can continue to smile when you are told your
mum is going to die, go home and we will let you know when it happens.”

Or how about when friends you have known for 30 years ring up because the
wife has had a massive stroke and isn’t expected to live. You go to the hospital to
support the husband and are there until the early hours of the morning because
the husband is so distressed.

Or another friend who just after a few months of getting married, discovers she
has breast cancer.

Or what about if you are threatened with a disciplinary hearing by Work for taking
3.5 weeks off work (the first sick leave in 10 years) because you pull your back
badly and end up in agony with a slipped disc, sciatica and trapped nerve.

I’ve experienced all this and more in the past 12 months.


Anyway back to the small group. I tried to explain that we go through seasons and
even Jesus wept, that there is nothing wrong about feeling sadness, that we all go
through trials and tribulations. I also mentioned the verse at the end how we all
go through things, but they can be used by God to refine, build character, etc that we
were never promised an easy pain free life.


But I pretty much got shouted down with people saying, we just need to pray.
and peace and joy is ours and if we are walking in faith and truth then there is no
need for sadness.

I got a bit mad, thinking maybe they were a bit shallow and weren’t really being
honest. But now I’ve calmed down, I thought I would put the question here to
see what you think. Is it possible for a Christian to be at peace and feel joy
even in the most difficult circumstances. Should that be the gold standard
in our walk with Christ. If you have achieved it, how did you get to that point.



Romans 5:3-5 NKJV
[3] And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation
produces perseverance; [4] and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
[5] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out
in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

To tell you the truth, those kinds of people give me the willies. (Heebeegeebees, if willies isn't a thing in the UK. lol) I triple-dog-dare anyone to be happy and smile, if I'm terrified or mourning. I can wipe that smile off their face.

And that they were all shouting you down, proves they can't, and don't.

The ones who believe that malarkey are mysteriously gone when a tragedy happens. They're fair-weather friends, about as useful as boots on a snake, but not nearly as humorous. One thing I've learned becoming disabled -- who my real friends are. The fake happy-faced christian didn't last long.

Try to find another small house group. They're useless.

Biblical proof it's okay not to be happy all the time:
[FONT=&quot]3 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Depleted]

This section of Scripture came to mind as I read through the thread:

2 Corinthians 4:

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;

9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;


...


16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


I also thought about this section:

1 Peter 5:

6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


We are going to face afflictions, trials, tribulation in this life. God does not hide this fact from us. And in the midst of our afflictions, God is there with us, perfecting, establishing, strengthening, and settling us. He is working within us during our most trying times to help us. He never, ever leaves us alone to face the things thrown at us in this life.

So, can we have joy in the midst of our most trying times? Yes. But I also think that in those most trying of times as mentioned in the OP, we have peace and faith in our hearts as we face our difficulties.

And I wholeheartedly agree with FlSnookman7 and others who differentiate between happiness (an emotion dependent upon circumstances) and joy (fruit of the Spirit, eternal in nature).

We also have the peace that passes all understanding which guards our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus as we bring everything to God in prayer and supplication with thanksgiving.

That first verse you gave was read by a friend of ours at his 18 month old son's funeral.

 

[Depleted]

when God tells is His joy is our strength, that word means a refuge, a hiding place, a stronghold...

not gym muscles. lol

as believers, we can hide (and, indeed, are hidden!) in our God, our stronghold. we can know He rejoices over His own. (Zeph 3) i do believe it's Father God's joy in His Son and His people being spoken of in Nehemiah. isn't that wonderful!

somehow this is a piece of the puzzle, Miri, don't you think? when troubled times come, we are yet in Christ.

(it don't always look like a party, though. the Psalms are replete with sadness, yet always end with trusting in the Most High God. that's a good place to be!)

John was working on a heater in a Jewish family's home. The home only had one floor, so he could see Mom and the toddler in the kitchen and Dad in the family room across the house. He was just a little too far to help when Mom turned her back to get something, and the toddler fell out of the high chair.

The toddler was a flurry of tears, as he ran and cried straight to his daddy, calling out, "Abba, Abba, Abba" the whole way there until he jumped into his dad's arms to be hugged and comforted.

Jumping into his dad's arms didn't take away the pain and indignation of being dumped out of the high chair. It comforted him because of the pain and indignation of falling out of the high chair.

We have Abba to comfort and love us despite our booboos.

That is the joy.

 

[Depleted]

Kind of get stuck on a favorite song sometimes. After posting, I went to find the song. Boy, this is a great version, complete with more scriptural verses in it.

[video=youtube;bIBu2p8FR3o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIBu2p8FR3o[/video]

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That first verse you gave was read by a friend of ours at his 18 month old son's funeral.

Wow. Hard times when we face the loss of a child. A verse that comes to my mind when I face a time of great suffering is Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

There are times when our hearts are so heavy we just can't imagine how we can bear it. And yet, we do. Somehow Father sees us through. I think to myself "I might be in excruciating pain right now, but God promises this pain isn't worthy to be compared to the glory I'll see in the future" and somehow that helps me to bear up one more minute, or hour, or day.

 

[IamWhoIam]

I went to a small house group this evening, and this subject came up.

Everyone there seemed to think the answer was yes, one man actually
said we should all be happy and smile all the time because of what
Jesus has done for us, we should feel happy and blessed all the time.

To be honest I was thinking “I would like to see how that works out
for you when you are talking and praying with someone who says
their lung cancer has come back for the second time and is untreatable!”

Or “I would like to see if you can continue to smile when you are told your
mum is going to die, go home and we will let you know when it happens.”

Or how about when friends you have known for 30 years ring up because the
wife has had a massive stroke and isn’t expected to live. You go to the hospital to
support the husband and are there until the early hours of the morning because
the husband is so distressed.

Or another friend who just after a few months of getting married, discovers she
has breast cancer.

Or what about if you are threatened with a disciplinary hearing by Work for taking
3.5 weeks off work (the first sick leave in 10 years) because you pull your back
badly and end up in agony with a slipped disc, sciatica and trapped nerve.

I’ve experienced all this and more in the past 12 months.


Anyway back to the small group. I tried to explain that we go through seasons and
even Jesus wept, that there is nothing wrong about feeling sadness, that we all go
through trials and tribulations. I also mentioned the verse at the end how we all
go through things, but they can be used by God to refine, build character, etc that we
were never promised an easy pain free life.


But I pretty much got shouted down with people saying, we just need to pray.
and peace and joy is ours and if we are walking in faith and truth then there is no
need for sadness.

I got a bit mad, thinking maybe they were a bit shallow and weren’t really being
honest. But now I’ve calmed down, I thought I would put the question here to
see what you think. Is it possible for a Christian to be at peace and feel joy
even in the most difficult circumstances. Should that be the gold standard
in our walk with Christ. If you have achieved it, how did you get to that point.





Romans 5:3-5 NKJV
[3] And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation
produces perseverance; [4] and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
[5] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out
in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

I believe there is a sweet spot per say to strive to keep our emotions/feelings in, it isn't easy to always be in the sweet spot.
but nonetheless it is where peacefulness and calmness is, yet every person who has walked the earth has had to manage these emotions/feelings, why because it is by God's design of the human body to have them they define who we are, in saying that there is a right way of expressing them and a wrong way of expressing them, The order of them can be as well mix/match depending on what is happening in our lives or the events in which triggers these emotions.

the sweet spot zone,
Trust
Love
Joy

the uncertainty zone
Anxiety

the trails and tribulations zone
Grief
Fear
Angry

 

[phil36]

I think that there is an error among Christians about what Joy means. It really comes down to 'All about me'; 'My feelings' and the list goes on. The Joy and happiness comes in knowing that no matter what happens nothing can take you out of the hands of the Father, that no matter what happens we know that God is in control of good things and bad things. God is Sovereign, nothing happens that God does not allow even adversity when it comes, He either sends it or allows it. For two reason: 1) His Glory, and 2) for the good of of His children.

Feelings can mislead us, not that there is anything wrong with having feelings/emotions, but we cannot trust them in our walk as we are still battling with the old man. Our real Joy is Christ Jesus our Lord who has saved us and will glorify us, even though at present we may weep but in time all tears will be wiped away. This is where our Joy and peace lies, in Jesus and what He has done - what he doing and what He will do. Our Joy is in the fact that God is Sovereign and controls ALL things - even though we may not see why things are happening as they are, How it all brings glory to Him and how it is for our good.

One last thing, we present a skewed Gospel if we tell people being a christian is all happy happy, fuzzy love bubble feelings.. What happens when trouble comes? and it does come to all believers. The bible warns us about these things so that we can 'endure' adversity.

Anyhow, a book that I read a while back opened my eyes to understand God providential care. I would Highly recommend it:

Trusting God: even when life hurts. (Jerry Bridges).

 

[IamWhoIam]

I think that there is an error among Christians about what Joy means. It really comes down to 'All about me'; 'My feelings' and the list goes on. The Joy and happiness comes in knowing that no matter what happens nothing can take you out of the hands of the Father, that no matter what happens we know that God is in control of good things and bad things. God is Sovereign, nothing happens that God does not allow even adversity when it comes, He either sends it or allows it. For two reason: 1) His Glory, and 2) for the good of of His children.

Feelings can mislead us, not that there is anything wrong with having feelings/emotions, but we cannot trust them in our walk as we are still battling with the old man. Our real Joy is Christ Jesus our Lord who has saved us and will glorify us, even though at present we may weep but in time all tears will be wiped away. This is where our Joy and peace lies, in Jesus and what He has done - what he doing and what He will do. Our Joy is in the fact that God is Sovereign and controls ALL things - even though we may not see why things are happening as they are, How it all brings glory to Him and how it is for our good.

One last thing, we present a skewed Gospel if we tell people being a christian is all happy happy, fuzzy love bubble feelings.. What happens when trouble comes? and it does come to all believers. The bible warns us about these things so that we can 'endure' adversity.

Anyhow, a book that I read a while back opened my eyes to understand God providential care. I would Highly recommend it:

Trusting God: even when life hurts. (Jerry Bridges).

Good post, I agree with a lot of what you mentioned, few things I kind of scratch my head on, even the new man inside you will have feelings, it is true feelings can mislead us if they are built around something that isn't right, love for money isn't right, but love for God and others is right, and trusting in the right way to feel is very important to spiritual growth and understanding and having a relationship with God.

 

[phil36]

Good post, I agree with a lot of what you mentioned, few things I kind of scratch my head on, even the new man inside you will have feelings, it is true feelings can mislead us if they are built around something that isn't right, love for money isn't right, but love for God and others is right, and trusting in the right way to feel is very important to spiritual growth and understanding and having a relationship with God.

Yep, we are to " Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind.

 

[IamWhoIam]

Yep, we are to " Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind.

Amen on that for sure my friend,,,

 

[SarahLaLuz]

For the most part Christians who are free of strongholds are more happy than others. Happiness is circumstantial but to be joyful is a different emotion given by the Holy Spirit to the life of the believer. Proverbs 17: 22 tells us, [SUP]22 [/SUP]A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. So many experience brokenness and yet when they are joyful or have a "merry heart" they have the ability to endure so much more from God's perspective. They don't see things like others do, from the natural mindset, but from the mindset of the Spirit. We are told in Scripture to be "renewed in the spirit of our mind". Ephesians 4:23. So as we pray and give the burdens we bear to Christ for him to carry them we can also learn to be more free and joyful. I know, easier said than done. thanks for letting me comment.

 

[IamWhoIam]

For the most part Christians who are free of strongholds are more happy than others. Happiness is circumstantial but to be joyful is a different emotion given by the Holy Spirit to the life of the believer. Proverbs 17: 22 tells us, [SUP]22 [/SUP]A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. So many experience brokenness and yet when they are joyful or have a "merry heart" they have the ability to endure so much more from God's perspective. They don't see things like others do, from the natural mindset, but from the mindset of the Spirit. We are told in Scripture to be "renewed in the spirit of our mind". Ephesians 4:23. So as we pray and give the burdens we bear to Christ for him to carry them we can also learn to be more free and joyful. I know, easier said than done. thanks for letting me comment.

Good post, reminds me of a song.

[video=youtube;woa-r9HaEYw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woa-r9HaEYw[/video]

 

[Miri]

For the most part Christians who are free of strongholds are more happy than others. Happiness is circumstantial but to be joyful is a different emotion given by the Holy Spirit to the life of the believer. Proverbs 17: 22 tells us, [SUP]22 [/SUP]A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. So many experience brokenness and yet when they are joyful or have a "merry heart" they have the ability to endure so much more from God's perspective. They don't see things like others do, from the natural mindset, but from the mindset of the Spirit. We are told in Scripture to be "renewed in the spirit of our mind". Ephesians 4:23. So as we pray and give the burdens we bear to Christ for him to carry them we can also learn to be more free and joyful. I know, easier said than done. thanks for letting me comment.

The question though that everyone fails to answer, is how. Lol

In theory we can all quote bible verses and say what we think is expected, but
the practice of it is miles apart.

Ps I just quoted your post, but it can be applied to many. So guys and gals, does anyone
have the magic answer as to how they kept their inner joy and peace while going
through tragic times?

I tried to get this across too at the small group but people just smiled and quoted bible
verses.

 

[Miri]

To tell you the truth, those kinds of people give me the willies. (Heebeegeebees, if willies isn't a thing in the UK. lol) I triple-dog-dare anyone to be happy and smile, if I'm terrified or mourning. I can wipe that smile off their face.

And that they were all shouting you down, proves they can't, and don't.

The ones who believe that malarkey are mysteriously gone when a tragedy happens. They're fair-weather friends, about as useful as boots on a snake, but not nearly as humorous. One thing I've learned becoming disabled -- who my real friends are. The fake happy-faced christian didn't last long.

Try to find another small house group. They're useless.

Biblical proof it's okay not to be happy all the time:
3 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

I know exactly what you mean, true friendship is indeed tested in difficult
times. Sadly it is often non Christians who seem to sympathise and are there
for you the most.

Christians tend to use the kop out phrase of “I will pray for you.” It excuses them
from having to do anything else so they can keep smiling benignly saying God
is good! Not that I’m saying God isn’t good but you know what I mean.

When my aunt got ill again this time around (its over 6 weeks now that she has been
in hospital). A prayer leader sent me a Facebook message to say they were standing
with me in this. I haven’t heard anything from them since!

Oh and yes I know what the heebeegeebees is. Lol

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The question though that everyone fails to answer, is how. Lol

In theory we can all quote bible verses and say what we think is expected, but
the practice of it is miles apart.

Ps I just quoted your post, but it can be applied to many. So guys and gals, does anyone
have the magic answer as to how they kept their inner joy and peace while going
through tragic times?

I tried to get this across too at the small group but people just smiled and quoted bible
verses.

It is one thing to memorize Bible verses and fleetingly think about them in time of trouble.

It is another thing to have those Bible verses so deeply rooted in the heart that the Word of God becomes part of who we are (our very life). So, yes, we can have joy in the midst of our trials and tribulations.

In Hebrews 12, we read about Jesus having that joy even as He hung on the cross, enduring the excruciating pain and despising the shame of being crucified:

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


I believe the joy that sustained Jesus as He endured until He finally proclaimed "It is finished" was the close fellowship He had with His Father. In Psalm 16:11, we read about this joy Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.


It is when we realize within ourselves that we are in the presence of the Father (even while we are enduring our trials, tribulations, suffering) that we are able to experience the fulness of joy, despite the present distress we are going through.


Hope / pray this answers your question.

 

[Depleted]

The question though that everyone fails to answer, is how. Lol

In theory we can all quote bible verses and say what we think is expected, but
the practice of it is miles apart.

Ps I just quoted your post, but it can be applied to many. So guys and gals, does anyone
have the magic answer as to how they kept their inner joy and peace while going
through tragic times?

I tried to get this across too at the small group but people just smiled and quoted bible
verses.

Teddy bears?

No, seriously. How good were you at being truly good (God's version of the word, not Man's version), before you were saved? Did you get any better on your own after being saved? I bet you tried, but did you ever get better?

Not likely. Sooooo, what changed? God!

God changes us to want to do his will and then gives us what is needed directly into us to do it. (And then we fight against that, nonetheless, because we are still a stiff-necked people. )

There is only one way to do God's will -- through God in us!

So how do you have inner joy and peace?

I'm not kidding! "Abba, Abba, Abba" right into Daddy's lap! His hugs. His comfort. His telling us that everything will work out just as he planned. Him reminding you that all things work for your good and his glory. Him! Him, him, him, him! He is our enabler, our comforter, our advocate, our lover, our best buddy in the whole wide universe forever and ever.

Stop counting on you. You can see your skills. You got no good skills, and yet he gives you supernatural skills as you cling to him and he clings to you even bigger. God is our source. Take it to him.

Abba, Abba, Abba... in tears and on the run to his throne. There is inner joy in that moment even in the middle of the house caving in around us. HIS joy! And he has whopping unimaginable joy, even more so than a human dad with his much loved child. And his peace! HIS peace, because he's the only one, for sure, knows this really does work out exactly as he planned, and that was planned for our good.

This isn't the "I just won a billion pounds" joy. (I am assuming a billion pounds is a lot of money, right? lol) This isn't the "ahhhh, I can finally relax" peace. This is "in Daddy's arms" peace and joy, with the bestest Daddy the universe has ever known. We're loved by him. It doesn't get any joyouser or pecefuller than that!