Why do you think this? Her view, while wrong, is not uncommon. I'd add to Magenta's comment above that while she is right and the muslims do promote this, it's not just the muslim, literally every single false religion to some degree tries to de-legitimize the Bible. It's an extremely common argument these days if you ever go out face-to-face evangelizing you will encounter this view A LOT!
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Well I will not pretend to know her motives. I will merely take her as genuine as I take people that make these assertions in person as genuinely believing such. Maybe they want an echo chamber, maybe they're just curious, maybe they're in a time of their life when they're just starting to sprout and are sounding out certain doctrines or theories or teachings that they have previously heard, or maybe they just like to stir the pot a lil bit, I don't know, but either way I'm just going to tell them what is true, if they believe it, good, if not, oh well.
R
Reality check oh persecuted ones. I asked sincere legitimate questions to which any believer should be able to offer an answer. Not one single "believer" offered explanation to my question, but said I am wrong. Instead, only offer an attack. For people claiming to be believers who answered to this thread, you are the reason that people are leaving the church and think so poorly of Christians. I truly came here to discuss my doubts and hoping to find a way to reconcile and sooth them. Good bye.
You did not reaffirm your faith with your OP but instead told us how stupid you think we all are to believe something so unbelievable because so-called "experts" whom you have chosen to believe said so. Helpful hint: next time you go somewhere "seeking knowledge," do not start out by heaping insults on the people you are looking for answers from.
Goodness, let's just look at this for what is was.
What actually happened:
1. She starts off by immediately lashing out, and saying the bible is fake, and Christianity is wrong, and it's all proven, and that is that. Done and done.
2. A few posts later she says she only came here to "reaffirm her faith", and WE were unreasonable, so she's leaving, and it's all OUR FAULT.
3. She was making NO attempts to "reaffirm her faith."
She was already decided and firm in her conviction that Christianity was fake. The evidence for this is that she argued ANY point to the contrary, immediately, like her mind was set, and she already knew all the arguments to make.
Conclusion:
A. She clearly just came here to rant and argue, she didn't come to "seek", or "listen".
B. When people didn't back down from her onslaught, she LIED, and made herself a VICTIM, claiming she was here to "reaffirm her faith"... which isn't what she was doing.
C. After making herself the victim, she then BLAMED HER DEPARTURE ON US! Claiming we were so unreasonable we made her leave.
* This was a whole bunch of classic psychological manipulation... angrily lashing out, lying, turning herself into a victim, then running away and blaming everything on the other party.
What actually happened:
1. She starts off by immediately lashing out, and saying the bible is fake, and Christianity is wrong, and it's all proven, and that is that. Done and done.
2. A few posts later she says she only came here to "reaffirm her faith", and WE were unreasonable, so she's leaving, and it's all OUR FAULT.
3. She was making NO attempts to "reaffirm her faith."
She was already decided and firm in her conviction that Christianity was fake. The evidence for this is that she argued ANY point to the contrary, immediately, like her mind was set, and she already knew all the arguments to make.
Conclusion:
A. She clearly just came here to rant and argue, she didn't come to "seek", or "listen".
B. When people didn't back down from her onslaught, she LIED, and made herself a VICTIM, claiming she was here to "reaffirm her faith"... which isn't what she was doing.
C. After making herself the victim, she then BLAMED HER DEPARTURE ON US! Claiming we were so unreasonable we made her leave.
* This was a whole bunch of classic psychological manipulation... angrily lashing out, lying, turning herself into a victim, then running away and blaming everything on the other party.
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P
When you ask a question under a false premise, we are going to address the false premise.
You are looking for any reason you can to reject The Bible and Christians. You did not "truly" come here with hope to discuss anything, you wanted to have you opinions confirmed and to see how well they hold up.
You are actually the reason people are leaving the Church and think poorly of Christians, because you are actually leaving the Church, and I would have thought poorly of you when you still considered yourself one.
You are looking for any reason you can to reject The Bible and Christians. You did not "truly" come here with hope to discuss anything, you wanted to have you opinions confirmed and to see how well they hold up.
You are actually the reason people are leaving the Church and think poorly of Christians, because you are actually leaving the Church, and I would have thought poorly of you when you still considered yourself one.
I was taking her as genuine until she ran.. 5 posts.. Really ? Only 5 posts and she spits the dummy and goes waaa waaa and has a temper tantrum...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVaijhhPMQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVaijhhPMQ
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This is exactly what I was thinking. Muslims are commanded to compare the quran up against the Bible to confirm whether the quran is true. Hence the OP's question quoted below. Who else would ask this?:
OP, your "innate logic" should tell you that as per your quran's command, you should be questioning the quran with the Bible as the measuring stick, not the other way around.
Where they don't match, the quran is wrong.
OP, your "innate logic" should tell you that as per your quran's command, you should be questioning the quran with the Bible as the measuring stick, not the other way around.
Where they don't match, the quran is wrong.
I just want to tell you I am not attacking you, but that which you have been told, that the Bible is corrupt, it is a lie. There's just no other way to really put it. I say to be wary of whomever is trying to convince you of these things and especially what they shall attempt to replace the Bible with, for it is the most common tactic that men use in order to shackle people and attempt to bind them into their mastery.
If you wish to try to reconcile your doubts, which I believe you do, for your doubt is a very common doubt for people my age and younger, especially those raised in the churches led by men, then I suggest read the Bible for yourself on your own time, with no commentaries, and no one else to try to tell you how to read it as your doubts seem mostly to be based around the veracity of the Bible. Just read it for how it is written just like any other book one reads try to immerse yourself into the story and let the story simply be what is written. After you read it if you still have as intense of doubt as you do now then fair enough, but perhaps if you read it you may feel connected to the Lord and perhaps God will bless you to come to greater understanding about the Bible that your doubts may be soothed indeed.
If you wish to try to reconcile your doubts, which I believe you do, for your doubt is a very common doubt for people my age and younger, especially those raised in the churches led by men, then I suggest read the Bible for yourself on your own time, with no commentaries, and no one else to try to tell you how to read it as your doubts seem mostly to be based around the veracity of the Bible. Just read it for how it is written just like any other book one reads try to immerse yourself into the story and let the story simply be what is written. After you read it if you still have as intense of doubt as you do now then fair enough, but perhaps if you read it you may feel connected to the Lord and perhaps God will bless you to come to greater understanding about the Bible that your doubts may be soothed indeed.
You are in rebellion against God, and it will not end well for you. As our lovely Stonesoffire said, an encounter with the Living Lord may be required, but I know from first hand experience that one or two encounters is not enough when you are so closed minded to the Truth of Scripture. Jesus is not only the Son of God, but God incarnate. Do you have any feelings toward Him as a Person, with what little you may think you know about Him?
Going to church or being brought up in a Christian home is no guarantee of coming to believe or having faith bestowed upon you as if by osmosis. In your present condition, coming to believe will turn your whole world view upside down. There is not much you can do to prepare for such an eventuality except to try to be a little more open minded, but even that is of the natural man. The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Here is a movie for you. Please watch it
[video=youtube;ObcQxqYmacg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObcQxqYmacg&t=283s[/video]
Going to church or being brought up in a Christian home is no guarantee of coming to believe or having faith bestowed upon you as if by osmosis. In your present condition, coming to believe will turn your whole world view upside down. There is not much you can do to prepare for such an eventuality except to try to be a little more open minded, but even that is of the natural man. The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Here is a movie for you. Please watch it
[video=youtube;ObcQxqYmacg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObcQxqYmacg&t=283s[/video]
P
Completely agree about her "playing the victim". She will fit right in with her liberal crowds.
Probably rejects The Bible because it's not "all accepting, all loving, and lets her be her", as the world has attracted her to. When we didn't accept and challenged her poor logic and attitude, she then rejected us because we weren't accepting of her and didn't let her get her way.
Your statement in bold summarizes everything perfectly. It's about always being in control even when your completely wrong and way out of line. Attack, be the victim when you get the negative response from your attack, run away when your victim act is confronted.
Then rationalize events as I was just trying to talk, they attacked me, and then I had to leave.
It's worse when you deal with these people in real life, I still don't know what to do with them.
Probably rejects The Bible because it's not "all accepting, all loving, and lets her be her", as the world has attracted her to. When we didn't accept and challenged her poor logic and attitude, she then rejected us because we weren't accepting of her and didn't let her get her way.
Your statement in bold summarizes everything perfectly. It's about always being in control even when your completely wrong and way out of line. Attack, be the victim when you get the negative response from your attack, run away when your victim act is confronted.
Then rationalize events as I was just trying to talk, they attacked me, and then I had to leave.
It's worse when you deal with these people in real life, I still don't know what to do with them.
Well I guess I don't blame her. I mean she's a woman, probably young. I just wanted to give a strong and definitive response myself leaving no ambiguity, but I didn't want to attack her or nothing, and I can see how she feels attacked. She is probably just a tender young woman (if I am wrong feel free to reproach and correct me rimu), and frankly her very common argument is not really that shocking to me honestly. I mean I have to have heard this argument at least over 100 times all ready, it's just not as shocking to me as it is for some other people. Lol try evangelizing to some actual muslims lol it's an experience all right and it makes arguments like this seem like a boring old cartoon re-run.
yes and I am glad you asked the question?
How can you be a son of God if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God?
God doesn't need my help to convince you of anything.
"Men can't do anything against the truth bot only for the truth."
It's not in our understanding that we come to know God. The truth is obscure, in parables, so that we have to search to find, but its not in understanding that we find Him, Love is the end of the Commandment and is the influence of His Spirit.
How can you be a son of God if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God?
God doesn't need my help to convince you of anything.
"Men can't do anything against the truth bot only for the truth."
It's not in our understanding that we come to know God. The truth is obscure, in parables, so that we have to search to find, but its not in understanding that we find Him, Love is the end of the Commandment and is the influence of His Spirit.
J
Actually not one post was "dishonest" toward you,you are merely deflecting and leaving questions behind,you have accomplished nothing,and just put down the bible due to your "opinion" if you can't be "honest" and "relevant" with us then how can you expect a response to your questions,in like manner?
Anyways...
Welcome here you can discuss with bible smart people and possibly make new friends,hope you like it here!
And since I'm a rather "bizarre" Christian I'll answer your questions...
1.how can anyone believe and apply the bible other wise known as the word of God when it is not intact?
"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God"
The word of God whether referred to as the bible or not is intact,for it's testament is Jesus whom is the word of God and a witness to all within the bible,so we can believe the bible and apply it,because through Jesus we know it to be "true",also considering that the king james bible was written with the inspiration to be "accurately God's word" king james didn't go through all the trouble of gathering together scribes and scholars,in the hopes of corrupting God's word he did so in the hopes that multiple cultures would be able read God's word and understand it and it be accurate as possible,if anything this was not an act of evil this was an honorable idea and now it is a respectable doctrine to read and learn of God/Jesus.
2.answered already
3.answered already
4.Yes you can be further explained to of the truth of God's word if you are "willing" to learn,if you are against his word then there is no explaining to you of any truth.
Anyways...
Welcome here you can discuss with bible smart people and possibly make new friends,hope you like it here!
And since I'm a rather "bizarre" Christian I'll answer your questions...
1.how can anyone believe and apply the bible other wise known as the word of God when it is not intact?
"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God"
The word of God whether referred to as the bible or not is intact,for it's testament is Jesus whom is the word of God and a witness to all within the bible,so we can believe the bible and apply it,because through Jesus we know it to be "true",also considering that the king james bible was written with the inspiration to be "accurately God's word" king james didn't go through all the trouble of gathering together scribes and scholars,in the hopes of corrupting God's word he did so in the hopes that multiple cultures would be able read God's word and understand it and it be accurate as possible,if anything this was not an act of evil this was an honorable idea and now it is a respectable doctrine to read and learn of God/Jesus.
2.answered already
3.answered already
4.Yes you can be further explained to of the truth of God's word if you are "willing" to learn,if you are against his word then there is no explaining to you of any truth.