Rachel and her father's idols

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Ariel82

Guest
#1
I've wondered for a while about this story.

I found this scripture today:

Leviticus 18:18 You must not marry a woman in addition to her sister, to be a rival to her, having sexual relations with the second sister when the first one is alive.

Isn't that what Jacob did when he married two sisters: Leah and Rachel?

Also WHY did Rachel steal her fother's household "gods"/ idols?

Genesis 31: 30-35

I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of the story is and if it somehow ties into how Rachel's son was sold into slavery and resulted in the rest of Israel's children accepting the slavery of Eygpt for a few bags of grain. Kind of like Esau and his soup.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#2
Good question Ariel..I'm not sure of the answer.. But I do know it was before the law (doesn't make it right though)

Anyhow thanks..now Ive got an interesting bible study to look at today :)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#3
Good question Ariel..I'm not sure of the answer.. But I do know it was before the law (doesn't make it right though)

Anyhow thanks..now Ive got an interesting bible study to look at today :)
Not before the Law...

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The word for Laws here is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

The Laws were well known prior to the codification on Mt. Sinai. Here is an obvious example...

Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

The first thing to notice here is a Gentile king who knew God and knew that adultery was a capital sin.

Gen 20:5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

God manipulated Abimelech's actions so that he was prevented from having relations with Sarah. God directly intervened because He knew Abimelech's heart. This shows there was a relationship between Abimelech and God.

Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Why?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gen 20:8 Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.

Why were they very afraid? They knew God was real and that He was God. They knew Him, unlike Sennacherib...

2Ki 18:19 And Rabshakeh said unto them, Speak ye now to Hezekiah, Thus saith the great king, the king of Assyria, What confidence is this wherein thou trustest?
2Ki 18:20 Thou sayest, (but they are but vain words,) I have counsel and strength for the war. Now on whom dost thou trust, that thou rebellest against me?
2Ki 18:21 Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt unto all that trust on him.

2Ki 18:31 Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me, and then eat ye every man of his own vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his cistern:
2Ki 18:32 Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of oil olive and of honey, that ye may live, and not die: and hearken not unto Hezekiah, when he persuadeth you, saying, The LORD will deliver us.
2Ki 18:33 Hath any of the gods of the nations delivered at all his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria?
2Ki 18:34 Where are the gods of Hamath, and of Arpad? where are the gods of Sepharvaim, Hena, and Ivah? have they delivered Samaria out of mine hand?
2Ki 18:35 Who are they among all the gods of the countries, that have delivered their country out of mine hand, that the LORD should deliver Jerusalem out of mine hand?

Sennacherib did not know God, but Abimelech did. Abimelech also understood the Law of God and knew adultery was a sin that brought death.

Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.

This shows us that Abimelech was also a man of integrity.

The Law was know from the time of Adam...

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Now there has to be Law to have sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

This notion of the Law not being around prior to Moses is non-scriptural.
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,982
40
0
#4
I've wondered for a while about this story.

I found this scripture today:

Leviticus 18:18 You must not marry a woman in addition to her sister, to be a rival to her, having sexual relations with the second sister when the first one is alive.

Isn't that what Jacob did when he married two sisters: Leah and Rachel?

Also WHY did Rachel steal her fother's household "gods"/ idols?

Genesis 31: 30-35

I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of the story is and if it somehow ties into how Rachel's son was sold into slavery and resulted in the rest of Israel's children accepting the slavery of Eygpt for a few bags of grain. Kind of like Esau and his soup.
The Mosaic Code in Leviticus is part of a covenant which began when Israelites had cross the Red Sea. It doesn't apply to Jacob or anyone else before Exodus 20.

I don't know why Rachel stole the idols, I assume they were made from precious metals and gems. If the idols weren't melted down by Gen 35 then they were buried under the oak tree at Shechem.

Gen 35:1 And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother. 2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: 3 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went. 4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which were in their hand, and all their earrings which were in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which was by Shechem.

The children of Egypt didn't accept slavery. They were celebrated in Egypt under Joseph. It wasn't until later when a new pharaoh came to power who didn't understand what Joseph had done for Egypt.

Exod 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. 9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: 10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. 11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
 
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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#5
In short this story is an analogy between Jacob's marriage to both Godly and earthly wisdom. For he wrestled with God and had power with both God and man.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#6
The Mosaic Code in Leviticus is part of a covenant which began when Israelites had cross the Red Sea. It doesn't apply to Jacob or anyone else before Exodus 20.

I don't know why Rachel stole the idols, I assume they were made from precious metals and gems. If the idols weren't melted down by Gen 35 then they were buried under the oak tree at Shechem.

Gen 35:1 And God said unto Jacob, Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there: and make there an altar unto God, that appeared unto thee when thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy brother. 2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: 3 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went. 4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which were in their hand, and all their earrings which were in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which was by Shechem.

The children of Egypt didn't accept slavery. They were celebrated in Egypt under Joseph. It wasn't until later when a new pharaoh came to power who didn't understand what Joseph had done for Egypt.

Exod 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. 9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: 10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. 11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
Didn't read the previous post or else disregarded it.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#7
I've wondered for a while about this story.

I found this scripture today:

Leviticus 18:18 You must not marry a woman in addition to her sister, to be a rival to her, having sexual relations with the second sister when the first one is alive.

Isn't that what Jacob did when he married two sisters: Leah and Rachel?

Also WHY did Rachel steal her fother's household "gods"/ idols?

Genesis 31: 30-35

I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of the story is and if it somehow ties into how Rachel's son was sold into slavery and resulted in the rest of Israel's children accepting the slavery of Eygpt for a few bags of grain. Kind of like Esau and his soup.
Yea, there are many spiritual facsimiles to Jacob's family. Almost all are bad.
Look at what the children of two mothers did.
That is a study into why to not have children by more than one wife.
They were going to kill Joseph.
They killed all the males of a whole tribe that made a covenant with them.
Total disgrace.
Though Jacob did marry one at a time through the guile of his stepfather; and it was before the mosaic law, ....but still....totally disgusting!
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#8
And the sister thing was about jealousy.
Read how jealous Leah and Rachel were of each other.
It's totally natural, - they shared their father now they have to share their husband? - for the rest of their lives?
- Totally disgusting, and it shows the depravity of us who were sold into sin(slavery), and killed our redeemer.
- - They tried to, but he had to live (in slavery- sin) to become king and redeem them.
O.T. types and shadows only can go so far. Joseph as a type of Christ had to live, so he could save them who rejected him.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#9
Notice how their offspring went into slavery anyway.
They had the pick of the land when Joseph was king. (Material)
Thus, the flesh by any means cannot save. (For all the lineage followers out there)
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#10
I've wondered for a while about this story.

I found this scripture today:

Leviticus 18:18 You must not marry a woman in addition to her sister, to be a rival to her, having sexual relations with the second sister when the first one is alive.

Isn't that what Jacob did when he married two sisters: Leah and Rachel?

Also WHY did Rachel steal her fother's household "gods"/ idols?

Genesis 31: 30-35

I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of the story is and if it somehow ties into how Rachel's son was sold into slavery and resulted in the rest of Israel's children accepting the slavery of Eygpt for a few bags of grain. Kind of like Esau and his soup.
I don't think we are supposed to read this scripture as anything but that it is what happened. We are told that what they did was wrong. We can look at their life and how everything worked out, how they reacted, to find out how this wrong thing they did worked out for them and how God sees it.

In that culture the family Gods represented the family. If Rachael had the gods, she could inherit the wealth of the family. Otherwise she would be cut off from any inheritance.


These people are beloved of God, but God says wrong is wrong. We can look at their actions to learn from them, and learn how God handles wrong actions.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#11
the law against marrying both a woman and her sister was not given until about 400 years later...so it was not a 'sin' when jacob did it...

there are several possible explanations for why rachel stole her father's idols...it is important to remember that none of them are mutually exclusive so rachel might have considered some or all of these factors when she chose to take the idols...

the strongest explanation is that in those days household idols were often passed down from father to son...possessing your father's idols was a guarantee of inheritance...rachel may have wanted her husband to be her father's legal heir...

also depending on what the idols were made of...they might have been valuable...this is significant especially considering that rachel and leah previously complained to jacob that laban had squandered what jacob had given their father as a 'bride price' for them...so rachel might have taken the idols for financial security...

finally although rachel obviously knew the true God...she might have also continued to hold superstitious or idolatrous beliefs too...as many of her descendants did later on... she may have taken the idols in order to gain the protection of the gods they represented... also depending on your translation there is a comment in scripture that shows that laban practiced divination...if the idols had any connection with laban's divination rituals...then rachel may have taken them in order to prevent her father from 'divining' where jacob and his family went when they fled...

in any case none of these reasons actually -justify- anything...it was still stealing and deception...and later jacob knew to get rid of the idols and buried them under a tree...
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#12
I've wondered for a while about this story.

I found this scripture today:

Leviticus 18:18 You must not marry a woman in addition to her sister, to be a rival to her, having sexual relations with the second sister when the first one is alive.

Isn't that what Jacob did when he married two sisters: Leah and Rachel?

Also WHY did Rachel steal her fother's household "gods"/ idols?

Genesis 31: 30-35

I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of the story is and if it somehow ties into how Rachel's son was sold into slavery and resulted in the rest of Israel's children accepting the slavery of Eygpt for a few bags of grain. Kind of like Esau and his soup.
Answer for Rachel's idol, from Ernest.L.Martin's "101 Bible secrets"



Why did Rachel steal the images of her father Laban?

When Rachel went to the land of Canaan with her husband Jacob, she took with her the images belonging to her father Laban (Genesis 31:19). Laban went in quick pursuit after Jacob once he realized his images had been stolen. Rachel then placed them in the saddle bags of her camel (verse 34) but Laban did not look there for ritualistic reasons.

But why was Laban so concerned about those things? Archaeology has probably found the answer. Some images dated near the time of Jacob had inscribed on them title deeds to lands or other properties. "A Mesopotamian document of adoption from Nuzi suggests that the possessor of these images was the legitimate heir to the family property" (Interpreter’s One Volume Dictionary, p. 23).
It should be noted that Laban quit pursuing his image-title deeds once Jacob and he erected a cairn of stones over which they both swore to the God of their fathers that Jacob would not claim property north of the cairn and that Laban would claim nothing south of it (Genesis 31:45-55). The land north of this boundary cairn made the possession of the title deeds redundant. Laban got the inheritance to all his land after all. This may be one reason that the northern area on the Mediterranean coast became known as Lebanon (that is, Laban’s Land).
 
C

CHRISTENE

Guest
#13
I've wondered for a while about this story.

I found this scripture today:

Leviticus 18:18 You must not marry a woman in addition to her sister, to be a rival to her, having sexual relations with the second sister when the first one is alive.

Isn't that what Jacob did when he married two sisters: Leah and Rachel?


Jacob and Laban had come to an agreement Genesis 29:18-20
29:18 And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.
29:19 And Laban said, It is better that I give her to thee, than that I should give her to another man: abide with me.
29:20 And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.


And when the time came for the wedding Laban changes everything, he gives Leah instead of Rachel. Jacob is innocent of this sin, because he made agreement and paid the bride price for Rachel.But it is Laban following the tradition of his country.


Genesis 29:26,27

29:26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.


Also WHY did Rachel steal her fother's household "gods"/ idols?


Don't know the exact reason , but as we learn Leah and Rachel are competing as to whom would get the favor of Jacob more , Genesis 30:8

30:8 And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.


Leah bear's four son's whereas Rachel has borne only one, and yes Rachel's maid servant did bear children, might be Rachel felt the need of their household gods in order to win over her sister, Really a tough a competition!!


Genesis 31: 30-35

I'm just trying to figure out what the purpose of the story is and if it somehow ties into how Rachel's son was sold into slavery and resulted in the rest of Israel's children accepting the slavery of Eygpt for a few bags of grain.
Israel's slavery was prophesied even before Jacob was born.


Genesis 15:`13-16
15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

.

Hope I am right .



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