Rapture= false teaching

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M

miktre

Guest
#1
The world is being prepared for the greatest deception in the history of man. The Antichrist is satan himself and he is coming to decieve. He is the son of perdition, meaning he is the only one that has been pre-judged to burn in hell before judgment day, not Judas . He wants to decieve as many as possible before he goes down. Remember, he was the most beautiful angel God had created. He will preform signs and lying wonders(miracles) decieving many. Search out this Truth for yourself, search diligently. Pastor Joe Schimmel from good fight ministries touches on the subject briefly in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8KBOzflpnM&feature=channel_page


Peace unto you in Jesus Christ​
 
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#2
1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord
 
M

miktre

Guest
#3
What part about those verses said that was going to happen before the tribulation? You see, this is a deception. The Bible says that will not happen untill after the great tribulation, its the greatest lie ever told for many shall have unknowingly partaken in the marriage with Satan and shall not be spiritually virgins.There shall be weeping and nashing of teeth when the true Christ detroys him with the brightness of His coming. The shame of the decieved shall be so great that when they realize their error they shall commit the ultimate sin of denying the Holy Spirit, and there shall be weeping and nashing of teeth. I'm afraid if you follow the first one to come then you have followed the fake Christ(the great deciever, Satan). The world is being prepared. Take heed please, friend.


Peace unto you in Jesus Christ
 
B

Baptistrw

Guest
#4
1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord
Amen, we have the hope and the promise we won't face the wrath of the trip.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#5
The world is being prepared for the greatest deception in the history of man.
I do not know how it can be so dangerous to believe in the rapture when the belief in the rapture is to be always ready by keeping the faith in Jesus Christ. That is the good fight. And I do that by the grace of God as I rely on Him to live as His and abide in Him.

Jesus warned of false prophets coming into the Gentile churches thus leading to judgment falling on the House of God first... the reason for watching and being ready. It is afterwards that the despensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews because of the falling away of the faith in the Gentiles churches that warranted this judgment whereas only a few will be found keeping that faith.

So for believers thinking that the rapture is some fairytake escape to get out of the great tribulation... no. The rapture is judgment on the House of God as the foolish virgins and the prodigal sons will be left behind where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but He will finish the work He has begun in them as God the Father will scourge every child He receives.. even if it means going through the great tribulation. ( See Hebrews 12th chapter with 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 with Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30)

Then the evil that falls on all flesh is.. to take the mark of the beast to survive in the New World Order.. or... to live by faith in the Son of God to even die for Him if need be.

So the call is now.. to be ready... abide in Him as you trust Him to help you keep the faith in Jesus Christ in His righteousness which is your wedding garment.

Philippians 3:14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3: 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

1 Peter 4:16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

His appearing is a singular event before the great tribulation as the coming of his kingdom is the secondary pre-post great tribulation event.... thus two judgmental event. How can Armegeddon include the House of God when they are to be judged first apart from this coming battle?


2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Note the appearing? Not a reference to his kingdom... cause the saints will be coming back with Him at the battle of Armegeddon.

Look at how God charged those seven churches in Revelation to be ready:

Revelation 2:21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

See that? If they do not repent of their fornication, they are to be casted into the great tribulation.

Revelation 3:9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

"...from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" is the great tribulation.

What crown is that? The one given at His appearing.

2 Timothy 4:7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

So the rapture is judgment on the House of God first at His appearing because of the falling away of the faith in which the Gentiles whom got the despensation of the Gospel because the Jews rejected Jesus as Their Messiah, but now, due to the falling away of the faith, the despensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses + for the great tribulation period.

May the Lord keep me in His grace by having me ready and abiding in Him for His appearing to His glory.

1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
I am certain that if you are abiding in Christ in keeping the faith, you will not be complaining when He brings you Home for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I am sure anyone's speechlessness will be followed by outbursts of praise and singing. :)
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
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#6
1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord
We in the world does this passage say that we will not go through the tribulation, or that this event (the catching away) is before the Tribulation, or that we have a choice of when the rapture will take place?
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
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#7
Is the rapture a false teaching Yes, and No. The pretrib rapture teaching is False. However the teaching that the living will meet the Lord in the air at His post trib 2nd coming is absolutely true.
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#8
watchmen,

Why would Jesus Christ as the head of His body, the church, that has redeemed and purchased us with His blood, subject us to the wrath to come? If God's salvation does not include keeping us from His wrath, then it would be incomplete. In (1Thes 1:10) Jesus has delivered us from the wrath to come. The wrath to come is in (Rev 6). Those in (Eph 5:1-5) are the children of diobedience that the wrath of God will come upon. In (Eph 1:8) the verb 'were' is in the imperfect tense and indicative mood, referring to a fact that occured in the past as an emphatic position. We were in darkness now we are light, so walk as children of light. Also in (Col 1:13) we have been 'delivered' and 'translated' from the power of darkness into the kingdom of God's dear Son. The verb 'delivered' means; to be removed and 'translated' means; to take or transfer from one position to another. We have been taken out of the power and kingdom of darkness and removed to a new location, which is into the light and the kingdom of God's dear Son. How could God subject us to His wrath when our location is hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3). So, we are no longer subject to the wrath and judgment of those that remain in and under the power of darkness as children of disobedience, because we have been removed from it. Those, who may be backslidden at the time when Christ comes back to take us up before the great tribulation, will go up also because they have the righteousness of God.

Someone gave this great OT illustration. Before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot and his family were removed before the fire came down from heaven. The interesting thing about this was when Abraham pleaded with God and made this statement in (Gen 18:23), 'Will thou destroy the righteous with the wicked'? God made sure when He sent His angels that they were removed. Lot was a righteous and just man, but lived in Sodom as a very backslidden man who was vexed by the filthy conversation of the wicked (2Pt 2:7). After the cities were destroyed he allowed his daughters to get him drunk on two separate occasions, not knowing their plan to lay with Him to preserve their father's seed (Gen 19). They each bore a son that produced the Moabites and the Ammonites, who became hostile to Israel or Isaac, which was Abraham's seed.
 

RoboOp

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 4, 2008
1,419
667
113
#9
The timing of the "rapture" or whatever you want to call it is not clear in the scripture to me. It's not that I haven't studied the scriptures, it's simply that there are scriptures that seem to support pre-trib and and some that seem to support post-trib and some that seem to support some other views as well. I think most things in the scripture (things that have any practical significance) are pretty clear, but eschatology is an exception -- it just seems so riddled (and maybe it's meant to be that way, to an extent). Anyway I'd rather not know than "know" the wrong thing! :)
 

BLC

Banned
Feb 28, 2009
711
4
0
#10
We have been called to peace and that peace is to rule (like an umpire) in our hearts (Col 3:15). I don't have any peace, in my calling or in my heart, about going through the tribulation of God's wrath. If any believer does have peace about going through God's wrath, doesn't that sound a bit strange and contrary to salvation (deliverance)? I want to have the assurance and comfort of the scriptures that I will not have to go through this great and terrible wrath that comes upon the children of disobedience. We who are alive will be caught up together with those that are dead in Christ before the tribulation of God's wrath comes.

God is not going to pour out His wrath on the church, his very own body, who He purchased and cleansed with His own blood, giving them the gift of God's righteousness and mading them complete in Him. The wrath of God was poured out on Christ on the cross and those that have believed have passed from death unto life. What life is there in being subject to the wrath of God? The wrath of God will come upon the world not because their sins have not been paid for, but rather because they have rejected the cross of Christ and remained children of disobedience. We will be in heaven, as the bride of Christ, with the Lamb in a marriage feast, while the wrath of God is poured out on the earth. We will be delivered from it and not in it. People err in their hearts because they do not know His ways (Psalm 95:10, Heb 3:10). This is what the scriptures teach my heart and I also have the Holy Spirit as a witness in me of the truth. It would be an act of condemnation for God to punish the just with the wicked
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#11
Is the rapture a false teaching Yes, and No. The pretrib rapture teaching is False. However the teaching that the living will meet the Lord in the air at His post trib 2nd coming is absolutely true.
It doesn't matter if you are aware of it being true or not. Everyone prophesy in part and know in part, but when He appears, the truth shall be known.

Jesus made a promise.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Where He is now.. that is where we shall be.. the Kingdom of God.. as in the House of the Lord. The analogy of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is that the traditional honeymoon is seven weeks for the bride and bridegroom to know one another intimately. The call is to be watching and leaning on Jesus to keep us from falling and to present us faultless as His righeousness as in the faith in the Son of God is our wedding garment towards His glory.

Matthew 13: 33Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

This singular parable is the hidden clue to the hidden mystery.

We have the initiation of the fulfillment of the Gospel being presented by which the Old Testament saints were resurrected after Jesus was since He is the First Fruit. Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 spoke of the promise of the supper by which followers will partake in with the Old testament sainst so we know that the resurrection of the saints from the Old Testament is only a part of the first harvest as those He brings with Him at the pre-tribulation rapture event will eat with the saints of the Old Testament.

Then you have the harvest at the end of the great tribulation.

Then you have a harvest at the end of the milleniel reign of Christ.

Three harvests that shall make up the Kingdom of Heaven. Verse 23 speaks of two events... the rapture as in the first fruit at His appearing and then the coming when He sets up His kingdom on earth.

1 Corinthians 15:20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Then verse 24 refers to the end of the milleniel reign of Christ. By His grace only do I read Matthew 13:33 as the sneak peak at the whole parameter of the events to be unfolding to His glory.

So take note of the three watches below and how only the first one has a supper and how we are to watch... letting our faith shine over what Christ has done for us in making us His and not serve anything else in his name that would be contrary to what we are to bear witness of.

Luke 12: 35Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

One thing is written that Jesus declared that the scriptures cannot be broken as they are also written to be fulfilled.

John 10:34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

John 19: 35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

So those that are ready and abiding in Him will be taken Home to His glory, otherwise...

Psalm 125: 2As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever. 3For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity. 4Do good, O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts.


But as it is, due to the falling away of the faith, many foolish virgins and the prodigal sons will be scourged so that they may be partakers of His holiness during the great tribulation for just as Jesus taught excommunication... He will do it when judgment falls on the House of God first...as it must.

Those weeping and gnashing of teeth are different from those that did receive the mark of the beast.

Matthew 22:10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.


The called is in reference towards the believers as not all will be ready.

That is why God shall wipe the tears from the eyes of those that come out of the great tribulation to get them past their loss of their first inheritance.

By His grace, I hope He has convey the necessity of abiding in Him and trusting Him to have us ready to go because only He can cause the increase for anyone into receiving this "talent" the Lord has shared with me.... in which I give thanks for in Jesus' name. Amen.
 
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
5
0
#12
watchmen,
Why would Jesus Christ as the head of His body, the church, that has redeemed and purchased us with His blood, subject us to the wrath to come?
I think the problem with this question is in your misunderstanding of what the wrath to come is. John the baptist tell us what it is in Matthew 3.
Matthew 3
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The wrath to come is the baptism of fire, when the chaff will be destroyed by fire at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ, which will occur after the rapture. Therefore even though the rapture is after the tribulation, it is before the wrath. Here are a couple of other passage to support this truth.


Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
First the rapture then the destruction of the wicked by fire. both occur on the same day, the day of Christ return which we know from Matthew 24:29-31 is immediately after the Tribulation.


2nd Thess 1
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Once again we see the rapture then the destruction of the wicked by fire on the very day that Jesus returns with His mighty angels which occurs after the Tribulation.




So although we will escape the wrath we must endure the Tribulation first
 
M

miktre

Guest
#13
Rev 2:10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

How does one think that they have chosen themselves to escape the earth during tribulation and the choice isn't Gods? The answer is simple is because there will be no rapture, the deception is to get Christians to worship the first one to come, the great deciever, Satan himself. Did God remove Lot from the earth during Sodom and gomorrah's tribulation? He will provide a way to those who stand fast, yet still as the above verse says some of us still shall die for refusing to worship Satan. Not sure how people think theres going to be a second and third coming of Christ. When Christ comes its not to make peace, but to destroy the kindom Satan(the true antichrist) has set up on earth. Satan's kindom shall be a time of peace for most of the world, but for those who are not of this world and refuse to worship him it shall not be so easy. The very ideal of "rapture" wasnt started until the 1830's by a scotish woman named Margaret Macdonald, who later recanted her vision as having an evil aura .
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#14
Rev 2:10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

How does one think that they have chosen themselves to escape the earth during tribulation and the choice isn't Gods? The answer is simple is because there will be no rapture, the deception is to get Christians to worship the first one to come, the great deciever, Satan himself. Did God remove Lot from the earth during Sodom and gomorrah's tribulation? He will provide a way to those who stand fast, yet still as the above verse says some of us still shall die for refusing to worship Satan. Not sure how people think theres going to be a second and third coming of Christ. When Christ comes its not to make peace, but to destroy the kindom Satan(the true antichrist) has set up on earth. Satan's kindom shall be a time of peace for most of the world, but for those who are not of this world and refuse to worship him it shall not be so easy. The very ideal of "rapture" wasnt started until the 1830's by a scotish woman named Margaret Macdonald, who later recanted her vision as having an evil aura .
You did note the word, "some" right?

I heard that it was started by a woman... the name sounds right... poor recollection... but I also heard that it was started by the RCC... and then I heard another that it was started by somebody else.

All I know is what I am reading and what He is revealing to me by His grace.

Just because a woman taught it or the RCC or anyone else, doesn't mean it is to be ignored due to guilt by association. One can read about the "rapture" without reading about it from those sources.

And... after the rapture, Babylon will fall.. trade will be interrupted as the ships will stand afar off at the smoke of her burning. If one third of the earth is burned up, one can see why God seperated the Western Hemisphere from the rest of the world.. one third of the earth. I can see this serving as a catalyst to cause all the eyes of the world to look for a world's leader as the EU rises to power as the New World Order. What better way to ensure cooperation for the world's survival than USA, Canada, Latin America and South America getting nuked to ward off any future " American" terrorists? All the world's resources has to be allocated and designated for use by the New World Order, and those that are a part of it will have debits to spend or to sell by the bio-chip while having hospitalization, a job, a home, means to pay taxes, and etc. It is no wonder that Americans and christians overseas will be on the run as it is written that they will be hunted down and thrusted through if not taking the mark of the beats doesn't kill them off by starvation, thirst, or the elements first.

So as Lot was delivered, so will those that are ready to be delivered from the hour of trial that will try all on the earth as God will scourge every child received as Hebrews 12th chapter can be applicable to this seperation of being left behind and as that fire is due to burning away those works that are wood, stubble, and hay in 1 Corinthians 3:10-23.

The call is to watch and be ready. May the Lord continue to keep me in His grace as my hope is in Him and all His promises to me to help me live as His, to serve Him, and to bring me Home. Amen.
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#15
"The rapture" is going to occur, no doubt about that. The question is when. I personally prefer to hold to the post trib view considering that is how it is presented in the book of Revelations.
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#16
I also feel that the Tribulation period is not the wrath of God. Revelations state that the wrath of God takes place after the seven seal and seven trumpets. On the seventh trump Christ comes to rapture His people then the seven bowls of wrath are poured out. In my opinion, Tribulation could be compared to a refining or sifting process.
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#17
1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord
Most who support the post trib view agree that we will meet Christ in the air where we will be transformed. This occurs after the seventh trumpet mentioned in Revelations. It is at that moment that God begins to dispense the seven bowls of wrath.
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#18
Please think of the ramifications here. Which would be the bigger mistake?

#1. Teaching the post trib perspective yet Christ comes pre-trib to take the the church and everyone avoids tribulation.

#2. Teaching the pre-trib perspective yet you, your family, and your entire church suddenly find yourselves in the middle of tribulation and completely unprepared. I can't imagine just how many people will lose faith if such a thing were to occur.

Personally, I will teach both perspectives and allow the listener to make his or her own decision as to which is the wiser to believe.

Besides that, Jesus did not come for the righteous but the sinner. If we are going to see the lost saved then we must preach that tribulation is inevitable because, regardless of what view you hold on to, for the sinner it most certainly is.
 
G

gigitgirl

Guest
#19
I believe in the post trib. Why would God let his children suffer from the plight of the Antichrist. And also the judgements. The Bible says that He doesn't want his children to suffer. I believe that we will ascend to meet our Lord Jesus before tribulation.
I really can't wait for the Rapture, although all of my friends think I'm crazy for believing in it. Sometimes we get into lengthy discusions about it. But they still think I'm crazy.
 
B

Baruch

Guest
#20
Please think of the ramifications here. Which would be the bigger mistake?

#1. Teaching the post trib perspective yet Christ comes pre-trib to take the the church and everyone avoids tribulation.

#2. Teaching the pre-trib perspective yet you, your family, and your entire church suddenly find yourselves in the middle of tribulation and completely unprepared. I can't imagine just how many people will lose faith if such a thing were to occur.

Personally, I will teach both perspectives and allow the listener to make his or her own decision as to which is the wiser to believe.

Besides that, Jesus did not come for the righteous but the sinner. If we are going to see the lost saved then we must preach that tribulation is inevitable because, regardless of what view you hold on to, for the sinner it most certainly is.
I can understand that point of view, but there is another.

If one believes in the post tribulation, then they are apt to be complacent and not be ready. They are more lilely to be lax in discerning the perilous times we are living in as the falling away of the faith is occurring now. Jesus said to beware false prophets and thus we are not to be looking for when the Temple gets rebuilt in Jerusalem so we can see who is the ant-christ is... but we are to be dsicerning now false teachings and fighting the good fight in ekkping the faith. Thus the call to watch and leaning on Him to be ready is the urgency for the perilous times we are living in as the falling away of the faith is happening now.

One may think that it is not as bad as it will be in the great tribulation, but it is bad now as it will preceed this event. Note the condition of that particular "tribulation" leading up to verse 29 before the great tribulation afterwards. It denotes the sign of the Son of man in heaven... thus alluding to His appearing and not His actual coming in verse 30.

Then you see the collection, but note how Jesus said there will be no sign before the rapture but you will know that it is near and at the door in verse 32. So false prophets will be the signs before His appearing as the falling away of the faith will signal judgment on the House of God first.

Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Jesus spoke of false prophets coming in the churches of the believers to such a point in that just before His appearing, only a few will find the faith in Him because they point to another way in approaching God the Father other than through the Son. (Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30) They are adding another invitation and another door for life other than the only One God the Father offered and that is through the Son. (John 14:6 & John 5:22-23)

So people will be marrying.. eating and drinking.. buying and selling ... that means believers as well.. so an exodus is coming... as an excommunication is as well for all those that have been led astray by false prophets so as to restore them to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for they are to be witnesses of Him and nothing else in His name and thus the reason why when the sainst left behind dies and their works follow them into the earth... it is wood stubble, and hay.. dust to dust and ashes to ashes ........ so that only His workmanship remains to glorify the name of Jesus above every other name to the glory of God the Father. Amen. Philippians 2:9-11