Ray Comfort/John MacArthur teaches a false gospel

[roaringkitten]

I need to make a clarification on this thread I wrote....The Book "Hard to believe" quote I made about pg 93, is actually out of date and is revised on MacArthur's website- http://www.gty.org/

I apologize for the inaccurate representation of that quote here.

But that does not make what He is teaching any more Biblical.....Lordship salvation adds a subtle requirement of complete surrendering to Christ's obedience. Of course, as Christians we are to do that, BUT that is not part of the gospel! Which is why Jesus says "teaching them" after their conversion, not just throw them off to fend for themselves...(Matthew 28:19-20).

 

[greatkraw]

MacArthur is a Calvinist, is he not?

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

MacArthur is a Calvinist, is he not?

Yes he is however, MacArthur (a southern baptist) holds to a pure Calvinistic perspective which does not include "carnal christianity" a doctrine which was made popular roughly 50 years or so ago in certain baptist seminaries.

I do believe that MacArthur endorses Paul Washer who teaches that sanctification and carnality are complete polar opposites and that two can not co-exist.

 

[greatkraw]

According to Calvin, faith and assurance are synonymous inwhich many interpret to mean that if you believe then you already have assurance thus there's no need to try and prove anything.

However, Calvin also believed that without sanctification (setting oneself apart) it is impossible to receive regeneration (the process of being formed into the image of Christ by the Holy Spirit) and that without regeneration it is impossible to prove one's justification (assurance of one's salvation).

Who is trying to prove what to whom???

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

According to Calvin, faith and assurance are synonymous inwhich many interpret to mean that if you believe then you already have assurance thus there's no need to try and prove anything.

However, Calvin also believed that without sanctification (setting oneself apart) it is impossible to receive regeneration (the process of being formed into the image of Christ by the Holy Spirit) and that without regeneration it is impossible to prove one's justification (assurance of one's salvation).

Who is trying to prove what to whom???

Yourself.

The problem with the church today is that is full of sinners who profess to be saints. They possess "head knowledge" of scripture however that scripture is not written in their hearts and the evidence of such can be seen by their fruit.

While it's true, no man without sin, we must ask ourselves how often do we take advantage of God's grace and in doing so, do we truly love God and place our trust in Him? It's one thing to accidentally stumble, it's a completely different thing to dive in head first knowing the end result beforehand.

My question to all, being rooted in scripture, is this: Do you really love God? Do you really trust God? Do you really know God?

The only way to truly know is by self reflection through the measuring stick that can only be found in scripture. Are the fruits of the Holy Spirit, a sure sign that He does indeed dwells within in you, evident in your life? If not then we must ask ourselves why.

Is there sin in my life which grieves the Holy Spirit?

Is my faith based on foundational scripture or superficial doctrine?

If we are saved by grace through faith, can I grow in this kind of faith? (the answer is YES you can.)

 

[greatkraw]

Yourself.

The problem with the church today is that is full of sinners who profess to be saints. They possess "head knowledge" of scripture however that scripture is not written in their hearts and the evidence of such can be seen by their fruit.

While it's true, no man without sin, we must ask ourselves how often do we take advantage of God's grace and in doing so, do we truly love God and place our trust in Him? It's one thing to accidentally stumble, it's a completely different thing to dive in head first knowing the end result beforehand.

My question to all, being rooted in scripture, is this: Do you really love God? Do you really trust God? Do you really know God?

The only way to truly know is by self reflection through the measuring stick that can only be found in scripture. Are the fruits of the Holy Spirit, a sure sign that He does indeed dwells within in you, evident in your life? If not then we must ask ourselves why.

Is there sin in my life which grieves the Holy Spirit?

Is my faith based on foundational scripture or superficial doctrine?

If we are saved by grace through faith, can I grow in this kind of faith? (the answer is YES you can.)

if I wanna know if I am saved I just ask myself if I have a personal relationship with the creator

the puritans got very introspective examining themselves and seeking to prove to the community they were saved

all they came up with is, if I am saved God will prosper me, so they were diligent in their work to receive their just rewards, this is the orign of the protestant work ethic

 

[oopsies]

"You must turn away from sin and turn to God. Desire to have NOTHING to do with sin, and surrender your life to the One who can save you. "

From a believer's point of view, I think he is talking about fellowship with God, not so much the union. From a non-believer's point of view, I don't think he's wrong either... he's just saying turn to Jesus and to God, surrender your life, and stop sinning. I think you're reading a bit too much into it.

Repentance is a change from UNBELIEF to BELIEF

In Greek, repentance is also a mental decision not to do something that is wrong or to do something that is right. Then to ask for forgiveness. The act of doing those two things indicates that one feels remorse - otherwise, one wouldn't turn from the sinful actions and ask for forgiveness.

John MacArthur is another popular preacher today who teaches heresy concerning salvation. In his book "Hard to Believe", page 93, he states concerning salvation:

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny"

Of course, one can easily defend these false teachers using a corrupt modern version of the Bible. MacArthur is a very confused man to think that righteous deeds will save someone.

Yes, I would agree that is worded incorrectly. He is confusing salvation with fellowship.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

In Greek, repentance is also a mental decision not to do something that is wrong or to do something that is right. Then to ask for forgiveness. The act of doing those two things indicates that one feels remorse - otherwise, one wouldn't turn from the sinful actions and ask for forgiveness.



Yes, I would agree that is worded incorrectly. He is confusing salvation with fellowship.

And there lies the problem. Many in the church today have embraced a "greek mindset" as it pertains to interpreting scripture and in doing so, just as many reformers before you, your interpretations are very much flawed due to that fact your intentionaly over look biblical concepts that were established long before the NT was ever written.

That is why it is so important that we also study scripture, especially the OT, from a hebraic perspective digging deep into scripture in order to find it's original meaning. If you have done so you would know that the concept of "repentance", much like the concept of "faith", requires more than just believing - it requires that you physically follow through on that belief through your words, thoughts and deeds. This is the biblical concept of repentance. Not that candy coated, easy to swallow, Charles Stanley counterfiet faith / repentance you all are pushing.

 

[shad]

And there lies the problem. Many in the church today have embraced a "greek mindset" as it pertains to interpreting scripture and in doing so, just as many reformers before you, your interpretations are very much flawed due to that fact your intentionaly over look biblical concepts that were established long before the NT was ever written.

That is why it is so important that we also study scripture, especially the OT, from a hebraic perspective digging deep into scripture in order to find it's original meaning. If you have done so you would know that the concept of "repentance", much like the concept of "faith", requires more than just believing - it requires that you physically follow through on that belief through your words, thoughts and deeds. This is the biblical concept of repentance. Not that candy coated, easy to swallow, Charles Stanley counterfiet faith / repentance you all are pushing.

How many sins have you repented of and followed through with, and never repeated them again? Be honest! If you have answered that question in your heart, God knows what's in your heart. If your success rate is 100%, why don't you repent of all your sin today, start naming them one by one, so that you don't have to be concerned about sinning ever again. Maybe you already have done that and you have reached the status of sinless perfection. If you believe that your non-candy coated repentance is the real thing, you should be able to claim that you are not a sinner anymore and that you are free from your old sin nature experientially.

That means you don't need God's mercy anymore. You don't need to be humble. You have grown to the point that grace and knowledge is of no value because of your maturity level. Are you sure that every single thought and imagination that you have had in the last 24 hrs had been perfect and free from every form of sin, including the sins of omission? That means that you did everything you were suppose to do in the will of God and left nothing out. If you have dug really deep in the OT and found out what true repentance is all about, why do YOU need the scriptures any longer, and for that matter what do you need God for? Do you know some kind of holy repentance that we have all somehow missed along the way? If all we needed was repentance then what is there to believe?

 

[oopsies]

And there lies the problem. Many in the church today have embraced a "greek mindset" as it pertains to interpreting scripture and in doing so, just as many reformers before you, your interpretations are very much flawed due to that fact your intentionaly over look biblical concepts that were established long before the NT was ever written.

That is why it is so important that we also study scripture, especially the OT, from a hebraic perspective digging deep into scripture in order to find it's original meaning. If you have done so you would know that the concept of "repentance", much like the concept of "faith", requires more than just believing - it requires that you physically follow through on that belief through your words, thoughts and deeds. This is the biblical concept of repentance. Not that candy coated, easy to swallow, Charles Stanley counterfiet faith / repentance you all are pushing.

To each their own. If you prefer to pick on every word that I've said, go ahead. I'm getting tired of this forum anyway.

 

[CIRBaptist]

John MacArthur leaves me empty and dry when I hear him on the radio. The letter of the law kills but the spirit gives life. I do love to hear Vernon Magee, even though he is dead, he is a wonderful man even with that accent that I have learned to love.

This how I feel

BUTi'm glad he is winning souls for Christ to judge him too harshly.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

And there lies the problem. Many in the church today have embraced a "greek mindset" as it pertains to interpreting scripture and in doing so, just as many reformers before you, your interpretations are very much flawed due to that fact your intentionaly over look biblical concepts that were established long before the NT was ever written.

That is why it is so important that we also study scripture, especially the OT, from a hebraic perspective digging deep into scripture in order to find it's original meaning. If you have done so you would know that the concept of "repentance", much like the concept of "faith", requires more than just believing - it requires that you physically follow through on that belief through your words, thoughts and deeds. This is the biblical concept of repentance. Not that candy coated, easy to swallow, Charles Stanley counterfiet faith / repentance you all are pushing.

I agree that we need a Christian mindset. I do not think that knowing a little of the language of the New Testament undermines that, after all, God chose the language.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

To each their own. If you prefer to pick on every word that I've said, go ahead. I'm getting tired of this forum anyway.

I'm not picking on you. All I'm doing is pointing out something that I have noticed among many christians today, especially those who believe in certain doctrines.

I've noticed, especially among moderate Calvinists, their interpretations of various biblical concepts such as faith, repentence, agape (love) etc. make God seem so impersonal as if God is a god of good intentions but never becomes too involved and because they hold to this perspective about God, they approach their own christianity in the same manner. I see alot of this here in this forum.

How many of you realize that God is indeed an interactive God? He is a God that not only loves you because He is holy but also because he views each and everyone one of as valuable and worth dying for. His love for you is not a secondary thought, idea or agenda. You are on His mind right here, right now and He wants nothing more than to interact with you on some level which I guarantee surpasses simple salvation. His goal? To see you reach your maximum in Christ, to see you become the person He created you to be. All we have to do is set our flesh to the side and accept His love for us.

People faith is more than just believing in your mind. Faith is believing with all of your mind, all of your heart and all of your strength. That my friends is the kind of faith which saves. A faith that can only be born out love, a love so strong that you are willing to do anything, even give your life for object of your affection.

That is true agape. That is the love in which God has for us and God created us in His own image so that we may come to love and value Him in the same manner with all of heart, our mind and our strength. God is indeed an interactive God. We were created in His image thus we, by design, are interactive beings also.

For someone to imply that repentance means anything less than to do everything within your power to walk away from sin, that person is not preaching biblical repentance. Jesus says that if your eye makes you sin pluck it out for it is better to enter heaven blind than to be cast into hell with your sight intact. Is this description "interactive" enough for you? Some may argue that I am implying a "works" gospel but nothing is further from the truth. - The truth is that if we truly love God and appreciate all that He is done for us, it is out of that love and appreciation that we are willing to do everything within our power to crucify the flesh, not because our works can somehow save us but because we love God and want to honor Him with our lives.

The gospel that is being preached today is a candy coated gospel. It is a gospel which says God did it all, you need not do anything in return. That is a false gospel and because of it millions are living their lives without any love or regard for the Saviour in whom they claim their salvation. While it's true that God's love is indeed unconditional, one can easily prove through scripture that God asks of us to love Him and our neighbors in the exact same fashion. That is true Gospel, the one that is found in both the Old and New Testaments. It is the gospel that both Jesus and Paul preached and it is the gospel in which they died for and it is the only gospel which leads to eternal life.

 

[oopsies]

How many of you realize that God is indeed an interactive God?

Make a poll. You are going to be surprised.

Unlike some people in this forum, not every post needs to be dissertation length to drive the point home. After all, it's not you who's going to convince anyone. Only God will speak to them.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

Make a poll. You are going to be surprised.

Unlike some people in this forum, not every post needs to be dissertation length to drive the point home. After all, it's not you who's going to convince anyone. Only God will speak to them.

Of course they will say yes, after all it is the correct thing to say in this luke warm christian culture we have made for ourselves. But if a gun were put to their head or to the head of their child or some other highly valued love one, would they lay down their / someone's life for their faith?

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

How many sins have you repented of and followed through with, and never repeated them again? Be honest! If you have answered that question in your heart, God knows what's in your heart. If your success rate is 100%, why don't you repent of all your sin today, start naming them one by one, so that you don't have to be concerned about sinning ever again. Maybe you already have done that and you have reached the status of sinless perfection. If you believe that your non-candy coated repentance is the real thing, you should be able to claim that you are not a sinner anymore and that you are free from your old sin nature experientially.

That means you don't need God's mercy anymore. You don't need to be humble. You have grown to the point that grace and knowledge is of no value because of your maturity level. Are you sure that every single thought and imagination that you have had in the last 24 hrs had been perfect and free from every form of sin, including the sins of omission? That means that you did everything you were suppose to do in the will of God and left nothing out. If you have dug really deep in the OT and found out what true repentance is all about, why do YOU need the scriptures any longer, and for that matter what do you need God for? Do you know some kind of holy repentance that we have all somehow missed along the way? If all we needed was repentance then what is there to believe?

It's not about that at all. What I am referring to goes far deeper. What I'm talking about is loving God in the manner in which He asks of us so that when we are tempted, rather than focusing on the temporary pleasures of sin, our focus becomes the grief that our sin may cause to the one who gave us His everything that we may live. And in those moments when we do fall flat on our faces, we are not only aware in our thoughts that we have grieved the father but also we are aware in our hearts of that grief also so when we sin we are literally brought to tears because deep down we feel the weight of having grieved the Holy Spirit, and in turn whole heartedly repented afterward feeling His grace sweep over you as if were a warm blanket of forgiveness and love? When we can pick ourselves up and out of heartfelt joy and appreciation, praise God for His infinite love and grace.

 

[timjim]

I just don't understand why so many people complicate the simplicity that is in Christ saying that if you do good works and obey God's commandments that this is works salvation.

The Bible says in 1 John that this is how we know that we know Him, if we keep his commandments. You can call that a works salvation if you want but that is just what the Bible says.

The Bible says that if we say that we know Him and don't keep His commandments that we are a lier and the truth is not in us.

The Word is God and in order to believe on Him you also have to believe His Word. The Bible says that faith alone and not works is how we are saved, let me give you an idea of how if think this could be illustrated.

A man robs a house and in the process kills someone. He gets cought and is sentenced 20 years for robbery and 50 years for killing someone. What kind of works is going to set him free.... none, he is under the law and condemned by it, nothing that he can do can save him. Twenty years later the judge reveiws the case and decides to give him a full parden. This is called grace and he is no loger under the law or condemned by the law. And if he has any sense he is going to keep the law and walk after the guidlines placed by the government out of love and respect for being set free. If he commits the same offence, he will be judged according to the law.

It says in Galatians that if we walk after the Spirit we are not under the law.

I heard of an omish lady that said she was doing good deeds so that she could make it to Heaven. That my friend is called works salvation. Believing on Jesus Christ and then walking in obedience is not works salvation it is a requirement. The Bible says that he who continues commiting sin is of the Devil cause the devil sinned from the beginning.

In Matthew were it says that few enter the Lord says depart from me ye that work iniquity. Just because you said a prayer one time is not the test. You can give people a false hope and tell them it don't matter what they do they can still make it to Heaven, but I have searched Scripture and see nothing like it. Nothing can separate us from Christ but our turning around and rejecting Him and turning back to sin.

Yes there are many things that I disagree with curt cameron and Ray Comfort, but they still say they believe on the Lord Jesus and I have not seen enough proof yet to label them as a false prophet. In Matthew 24 we read that the Gospel will be preached to the whole world before Christ comes back. And there are many different Missionarys and I'm sure not all of them ar OSAS.

 

[NewJerusalem]

Can Someone Please Answer A Question For Me?

i keep seeing posts in Bible Discussion Forum threads that show screen name and also says Banned under their name. How can people post if banned?

Thanks all. Im fairly new here.

 

[timjim]

Those posts were posted before they were banned. I'm not quite sure how it works but the old posts still stay on they just have the word banned on all the previous posts.

 

[NewJerusalem]

Those posts were posted before they were banned. I'm not quite sure how it works but the old posts still stay on they just have the word banned on all the previous posts.

WOW, seems like lots of people with good ideas/discussions and seemingly unharmful are banned!