Repentance

[JoshRyan99]

So I'll preface this by saying that I'm new to this site so idk if this thread has been made before. Also, I'm confident in my relationship wth God, but I'm not as knowledgable about different bible verses as I would like to be. Now, I recently saw this video of this guy who was talking about Christians leading this generation to perish. His point was that we only focus on loving them and we don't focus enough on telling them hard truths about the sin in their lives. This didn't sit well with me, and got me thinking. Repentance is turning away from your sin and I really question how possible this is. I believe that God will do (and has done) phenomenal things with people, including me, and gotten them to break away from sins they have trouble with but we aren't ever really free from sin completely. I mean if you don't sin with your actions, you sin with your heart or your mind. In some way you are falling short from Jesus' example. So then how can we look at a sinner and say "you're not living right and here's why..." My view is, if we can never be perfect, then let's show em the love of Jesus and the incredible grace of God so that he can be welcomed in and HE can do what he needs too. Any opinions on this?? If anyone has any bible verses on this subject is love to hear em! God bless guys

 

[Magenta]

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...

 

[posthuman]

welcome to the site! lots of subjects come up over and over again, so don't worry too much about making a new thread if there's not something on the subject in the first few pages. there's a search function, but people will also fuss about dragging up 2 year old threads haha.

repenting ((turning away from)) and being completely without fault are not the same thing.

maybe it helps to define something clearly by looking at the opposite of it -- an example of not repenting of a sin is to continue doing it without any remorse. so central to the idea of repenting is having that remorse -- recognizing that what you did was wrong, so that inwardly, you determine you should not do that thing.
outwardly, you may fall and do it again. but if you are repentant, you will still recognize it as the wrong thing to do. if you are unrepentant, you may keep doing it without being bothered in the least. the difference is in your heart - and what's in your heart should wind up being displayed in your actions, but screwing up and making mistakes doesn't mean that you didn't intend in your heart to do right.
repenting is changing your mind about sin - calling it sin, recognizing it is sin - and how successful you are at keeping yourself from doing what you know is wrong is not by itself an indicator of whether you repent or not, but your attitude about the sin you commit is.
how well you are able to live righteously is more about how well you are able to discipline yourself. a different thing -- and we as believers need skillfulness in both

some people teach that you have not repented until you are sinlessly perfect. this is mormon doctrine, and also taught in other churches that call themselves 'christian' -- but it's contrary to how the Bible presents repentance.

though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again
(Proverbs 24:16)​

see how here a man is still called righteous, even though he is able to stumble?

Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how many times could my brother sin against me and I forgive him? As many as seven times?”
“I tell you, not as many as seven,” Jesus said to him, “but 70 times seven."
(Matthew 18:21-22)
​

Peter may have had that proverb in mind, to say "seven times?" but see how Christ said way more than this? that presupposes that though a person may be repentant, they may still fall -- hundreds of times. Jesus isn't giving a max number here, but saying in a poetic way "not just seven times! way more!"

and here is a verse that should give you peace, so you shouldn't doubt your place in Christ:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)
​

seeing John says this, and he is writing to believers, obviously the expectation is not that we are perfect, but that in our hearts, we long for and try to do what is right.

you being new here -- keep this in mind when you see people not treating each other right, and getting upset and saying things that aren't as gentle as they ought to be.
we all stumble, especially in what we say, and we all need to be forgiven. welcome again!

-post

 

[shotgunner]

welcome to the site! lots of subjects come up over and over again, so don't worry too much about making a new thread if there's not something on the subject in the first few pages. there's a search function, but people will also fuss about dragging up 2 year old threads haha.

repenting ((turning away from)) and being completely without fault are not the same thing.

maybe it helps to define something clearly by looking at the opposite of it -- an example of not repenting of a sin is to continue doing it without any remorse. so central to the idea of repenting is having that remorse -- recognizing that what you did was wrong, so that inwardly, you determine you should not do that thing.
outwardly, you may fall and do it again. but if you are repentant, you will still recognize it as the wrong thing to do. if you are unrepentant, you may keep doing it without being bothered in the least. the difference is in your heart - and what's in your heart should wind up being displayed in your actions, but screwing up and making mistakes doesn't mean that you didn't intend in your heart to do right.
repenting is changing your mind about sin - calling it sin, recognizing it is sin - and how successful you are at keeping yourself from doing what you know is wrong is not by itself an indicator of whether you repent or not, but your attitude about the sin you commit is.
how well you are able to live righteously is more about how well you are able to discipline yourself. a different thing -- and we as believers need skillfulness in both

some people teach that you have not repented until you are sinlessly perfect. this is mormon doctrine, and also taught in other churches that call themselves 'christian' -- but it's contrary to how the Bible presents repentance.

though the righteous fall seven times, they rise again
(Proverbs 24:16)​

see how here a man is still called righteous, even though he is able to stumble?

Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how many times could my brother sin against me and I forgive him? As many as seven times?”
“I tell you, not as many as seven,” Jesus said to him, “but 70 times seven."
(Matthew 18:21-22)
​

Peter may have had that proverb in mind, to say "seven times?" but see how Christ said way more than this? that presupposes that though a person may be repentant, they may still fall -- hundreds of times. Jesus isn't giving a max number here, but saying in a poetic way "not just seven times! way more!"

and here is a verse that should give you peace, so you shouldn't doubt your place in Christ:

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
(1 John 1:8)
​

seeing John says this, and he is writing to believers, obviously the expectation is not that we are perfect, but that in our hearts, we long for and try to do what is right.

you being new here -- keep this in mind when you see people not treating each other right, and getting upset and saying things that aren't as gentle as they ought to be.
we all stumble, especially in what we say, and we all need to be forgiven. welcome again!

-post

Very well said!

What I would like to see is pastors preaching less against sin. Many preach against sin as if saved people want to sin and need to be talked out of it. My view is that people who really want to sin, need to get saved.

The way out of sin is by renewing the mind and putting on the new man who is righteous by faith. We are new creations but only when we know who we are, will we act like who we are.

 

[JoshRyan99]

Hey posthuman, thanks for the welcome and big thanks for the wisdom! That was really great stuff! I get what your saying about living in repentance but I guess my real question is how do we approach people who aren't yet living with jesus? The video I referenced before said to tell them they are sinning etc. but I feel like, more often than not, that can come off as a "holier than thou" way of thinking. I don't want that to be the way I interact with people im trying to save and even people who are saved and just aren't living right. I believe that love and love along can put someone on the right path. Our love towards them, I believe, gives them a small idea of how much God loves them. Any thoughts??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

first off, welcome to the site. Hope you enjoy your stay.

2nd. Repentance is not turning from sin, it is merely a change of mind or heart. One can not turn from sin if he can not break the power of sin, and a person who is not saved has no power to do any good. period. all he or she can ever do is sin, even if to us it is a good deed, to God it is sin, because of the heart.

repentance is humbling yourself. admiting to God you are doomed. and need saved, and the only way you will ever have a relationship with him is to receive his sons payment in full. nothing more, nothing less. and having faith that God will keep his promise (eternal life)

one who has yet to trust God completely for salvation has not yet repented, Even if he has stopped doing some personal sins he was doing, he has yet to repent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey posthuman, thanks for the welcome and big thanks for the wisdom! That was really great stuff! I get what your saying about living in repentance but I guess my real question is how do we approach people who aren't yet living with jesus? The video I referenced before said to tell them they are sinning etc. but I feel like, more often than not, that can come off as a "holier than thou" way of thinking. I don't want that to be the way I interact with people im trying to save and even people who are saved and just aren't living right. I believe that love and love along can put someone on the right path. Our love towards them, I believe, gives them a small idea of how much God loves them. Any thoughts??

Do as Jesus did.

1. Love them unconditionaly
2. Do not judge them
3. Share with them the good news (gospel)
4. Pray they they see you as a light to come out of the darkness.

If you try to win them over by judging the (like the pharisees did) you will never win them to Christ, if anything, you will turn them away from Christ. A person can know he is a sinner (actually scripture says he does know this..see romans 1) without being told how bad he is because he does this or that.

 

[shotgunner]

You don't tell people that they are in sin. You need to tell them that Jesus has made a way out of sin, which we were all in, and a way out of Hell which we all deserved.

Romans 2:4King James Version (KJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 

[mailmandan]

Welcome to Christian Chat!

 

[posthuman]

Very well said!

What I would like to see is pastors preaching less against sin. Many preach against sin as if saved people want to sin and need to be talked out of it. My view is that people who really want to sin, need to get saved.

The way out of sin is by renewing the mind and putting on the new man who is righteous by faith. We are new creations but only when we know who we are, will we act like who we are.

thanks! but remember just because the Spirit leads me in one post, and i'm able to follow well, doesn't mean i won't screw up saying something in another post haha

what you said - "act like who we are" - reminded me of another verse that i only recently saw for what it truly says, and is a great comfort

Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch -
- as you really are.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)​

we don't clean up our lives in order to become righteous, but because in Him, we already are! to show outwardly what's been changed in us inwardly.

and a lyric from a Christian rap artist ((i know i've posted this before, somewhere))

see, Jesus doesn't clean the fish, and then catch them
- that's backwards.
first He catches the fish, and then cleans them.
​

- J Givens​

 

[BarlyGurl]

You don't tell people that they are in sin. You need to tell them that Jesus has made a way out of sin, which we were all in, and a way out of Hell which we all deserved.

Romans 2:4King James Version (KJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Telling someone there is a way out of sin... pretty much leaves little room for "speculating" they aren't in sin.

 

[JoshRyan99]

Awesome stuff guys!! It's really cool to know I share the same views as a lot of you guys! Let's me know my hearts on the right track.

 

[shotgunner]

Telling someone there is a way out of sin... pretty much leaves little room for "speculating" they aren't in sin.

Yes, but that's the point. Without Jesus we are all in sin and destined for hell. What we need to do is to present the gospel in such a way that it doesn't sound like we are acting holier than though.

I recently had a hitch hiker pray with me for salvation while he just cried like a baby. I didn't start off by pointing out that he was headed for hell without Jesus. I started by bringing up the topic of the Lord. He thanked me for picking him up and I told him that I tried to help people because God had been so good and compassionate to me. He mentioned looking for a church and we started from there. I was able to share with him how I had once thought that I was fine just because I was a good person, but then I explained that without Jesus no one is good enough for Heaven. I never once had to condemn him of sin, just show him that Jesus is the way for everyone.

 

[shotgunner]

I meant holier than thou! I hate not being able to edit after just a few minuets.

 

[Willie-T]

I meant holier than thou! I hate not being able to edit after just a few minuets.

Me too! That is probably the only thoroughly ridiculous thing about this forum.

 

[Skinski7]

Repentance is turning away from your sin and I really question how possible this is. I believe that God will do (and has done) phenomenal things with people, including me, and gotten them to break away from sins they have trouble with but we aren't ever really free from sin completely.

Don't be deceived by the clever words of deceivers. Jesus said...

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

FREE INDEED means FREE INDEED.

Jesus does not set one free indeed and leave one in a state of ongoing sin service. We are set free from such a bonded state and don't be deceived by those whom would teach you otherwise. Satanic doctrine is manifest today which deceives people into believe that they cannot truly be free and thus they never truly seek such true freedom, thus they are doomed to perish in their sins because their minds were immunised from the true Gospel message.

Genuine repentance is wrought through godly sorrow. Genuine repentance leads to salvation.

It is through godly sorrow that we change our minds about rebellion to God and thus choose to yield to God. It is through godly sorrow that we find the motivation to crucify our old man (our old man whom served sin) and thus yield ourselves to God in the service of righteousness by which we are born anew by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot indwell a rebellious vessel and the love of God cannot be manifested in the hearts of those whom are rebellious to God. We have to receive the implanted word within, having laid aside all known wickedness, by which we are quickened unto newness of life.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[KennethC]

So I'll preface this by saying that I'm new to this site so idk if this thread has been made before. Also, I'm confident in my relationship wth God, but I'm not as knowledgable about different bible verses as I would like to be. Now, I recently saw this video of this guy who was talking about Christians leading this generation to perish. His point was that we only focus on loving them and we don't focus enough on telling them hard truths about the sin in their lives. This didn't sit well with me, and got me thinking. Repentance is turning away from your sin and I really question how possible this is. I believe that God will do (and has done) phenomenal things with people, including me, and gotten them to break away from sins they have trouble with but we aren't ever really free from sin completely. I mean if you don't sin with your actions, you sin with your heart or your mind. In some way you are falling short from Jesus' example. So then how can we look at a sinner and say "you're not living right and here's why..." My view is, if we can never be perfect, then let's show em the love of Jesus and the incredible grace of God so that he can be welcomed in and HE can do what he needs too. Any opinions on this?? If anyone has any bible verses on this subject is love to hear em! God bless guys

Welcome and I would like to address your statement of "you're not living the right."

Lord Jesus in Matthew 18:15-17, Luke 17:3-4, and Matthew 7:5 shows we have the right to call others out for their sinful ways after we have dealt with and acknowledged our own sinful ways, and then help them turn from those ways.

Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 shows the same thing, and both him and the Lord both say if once you have addressed the issue if they do not repent of those sinful ways they are to be cast out.

 

[BarlyGurl]

I meant holier than thou! I hate not being able to edit after just a few minuets.

Its okay SHotgun, I think most everyone knew that. Myself I am a terrible typist and sometimes the edit limit is a good EXCUSE for missing something!

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't worry as there are a few on here who will say they don't sin, hardly sin and or promote sinless perfectionism and a working for salvation.....The bible is clear.....the spirit that has been born of God has God's seed remaining and does not sin, however it is bound in a body of sin until the complete redemption at the resurrection/change (rapture so called) and until that day the flesh and spirit will war against one another..,some times the spirit wins and sometimes the flesh wins...there is not a single just man upon the earth that does good and sins not......those who will say they are sinless are liars!

 

[dcontroversal]

Me too! That is probably the only thoroughly ridiculous thing about this forum.

Even though I don't like the 5 minute rule...it does keep someone from going back and changing what was said which in itself can cause problems as well......