"replacement theology" - what is it?

[Ahwatukee]

you have two species of saints.
a saint is a saint.
there's no such thing as a tribulation saint.
this is the fruit of stupid pre-trib doctrine

Zone, why do comment on issues that are obvious in scripture and that you obviously know nothing about? Below is the great tribulation saints:

======================================

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
=========================================

Those above are the saints who come out of the great tribulation period. This is the same group that are referred to in Rev.13:7 & 20:4-6:

"It was also given to him to make war with [the saints] and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him."

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

The great tribulation saints are those who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. They are those who are mentioned throughout the entire narrative and are Gentile believer's, as scripture states that they are from every nation, tribe, people and language.

Note: The church is never mentioned again after the end of chapter 3, and referred to as the bride in Rev.19:6-8.

Therefore, my teaching stands as correct.

 

[zone]

yeah...and the blessing or curse is upon the ONE'S BLESSING OR CURSING...

unintelligible

 

[zone]

And the money making, moronic left behind series..........

no kidding. terrible movie.
but the whole premise is astounding.
hundred of millions believing it. mind-numbing

 

[zone]

I will add....there is no need for a snide, mouthy response ZONE......such as OH WOW followed by sarcasm....?????????

oh wow D
I have no clue whatchu on about

 

[zone]

Zone, why do comment on issues that are obvious in scripture and that you obviously know nothing about? Below is the great tribulation saints:

======================================

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
=========================================

Those above are the saints who come out of the great tribulation period. This is the same group that are referred to in Rev.13:7 & 20:4-6:

"It was also given to him to make war with [the saints] and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him."

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

The great tribulation saints are those who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. They are those who are mentioned throughout the entire narrative and are Gentile believer's, as scripture states that they are from every nation, tribe, people and language.

Note: The church is never mentioned again after the end of chapter 3, and referred to as the bride in Rev.19:6-8.

Therefore, my teaching stands as correct.

totally ridiculous.
there is one variety of saints.
no pretrib rapture folly.
the saints in Rev are the same ones in the rest of the book(s).

 

[zone]

anyone:

if you used to hold to two-peoples doctrine (dispensationalism), but now hold to one people ("replacement theology"<--misnomer), please say what happened to make you change your mind - was there a particular passage that opened your eyes?

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Lots of passages Zone, and lots of patient explanations

---

 

[dcontroversal]

Zone, why do comment on issues that are obvious in scripture and that you obviously know nothing about? Below is the great tribulation saints:

======================================


Therefore, my teaching stands as correct.

Unless your whole premise is wrong and ALL SAINTS go thru the TRIBULATION........as in POST TRIB/PRE WRATH ingathering....

No need to post your view on tribulation and wrath...they are two different words, two different meanings and applied unto two polar opposite groups...

and no...the people WRONGY ASSUME that the wrath of God is here at the 6th seal....

The announcement is made IN HEAVEN before the THRONE that God's WRATH (ORGE) has arrived at the sounding of the 7th and final TRUMP of Revelation...not the 6th seal...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

anyone:

if you used to hold to two-peoples doctrine (dispensationalism), but now hold to one people ("replacement theology"<--misnomer), please say what happened to make you change your mind - was there a particular passage that opened your eyes?

As you like to say often, "Totally ridiculous".

Dispensationalsim does not preach two people doctrine.

If you would get off this strawman, false idea about what people believe, You may understand this, Until then I feel you will remain "stuck in a rut".

 

[JesusRules1]

God says He will once more lead Israel into the desert and speak tenderly to her there again. That is cause for celebration and cause for hopeful prayer, not for arguing and bickering.

The truth is that if Israel as a nation does not come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,then the plan of God cannot continue for the millennial reign could not happen,which has to happen before the saints go to the New Jerusalem.

Jesus said salvation is of the Jews,and the Jews shall not see Him again until they say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.

The nation of Israel has 70 weeks determined upon them to acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Savior,which one week is to go which is when God will bring them to the truth,which God said He will make a full end of all nations,but not make a full end of Israel,and Israel is blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles,and so all Israel shall be saved,kingdom restored to Israel in the millennial reign of Christ.

Since Israel as a nation has not accepted Jesus as Messiah the last week is not fulfilled.

God said I am the LORD,I change not;therefore Jacob is not consumed,and God has not cast away His people that He once foreknew,and God said if the ordinances of heaven are still in effect,the sum,moon,and stars,then His covenant is still with Israel.

God allowed the nations to come against Israel if disobedient,and allowed Babylon to go against them for their disobedience,but always brought them back to their land,and corrected them,and they were right again with God,and God will do it again as He always has,for the Bible says concerning Israel that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance on God's part.

The disciples asked Jesus is the kingdom would be restored at that time,and He said the Father will do it in His time,but be concerned with preaching the Gospel.

God will work with Israel again like time past,and always will work with them once they recognize the truth,and God will make sure they come to the truth.

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
Deu 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
Deu 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Anytime the Jews cry out to God in the truth,even in the latter days which is now,everything will be the same with them as in time past,which no enemy will be able to have victory over them,and God will be their God working among them.

 

[Ahwatukee]

totally ridiculous.
there is one variety of saints.
no pretrib rapture folly.
the saints in Rev are the same ones in the rest of the book(s).

It is only ridiculous because it hasn't been revealed to you. Zone, if you stop trying to impress upon others your self imposed scriptural superiority, you might learn something. Also, your response above lacks any scriptural proof to support your claim of this information being ridiculous. Because of this, your proof is basically "because I said so," where my proof is backed up with scripture.

the saints in Rev are the same ones in the rest of the book(s).

God has left us hidden information within His word and specifically here in the book of Revelation, which is revealed by the Holy Spirit. Within chapters 1- 3, the word "ekklesia" translated "church" is used throughout those chapters. And within those same chapters, you will not find the word "hagios" translated "saints."

In opposition, from chapter 4 onward and beginning at 5:8, you will only find the word hagios/saints and you will never see the word ekklesia/church used throughout the entire narrative. Ergo, the church is no longer on the earth.

Within the rest of the Biblical books of the NT, the words church and saint are used interchangeably. But here in Revelation there is a distinction made between the church and those saints who will be here after the church has been removed.

It is no coincidence that the Holy Spirit just stopped using the word church after the end of chapter 3.

Those who become saints during this time will be exposed to God's wrath with many of them dying for
their testimony of Christ, the word of God and because they will refuse to worshipped the beast, his image or receive his mark.

This is why believers are continually warned in scripture to watch and be ready for the Lord's imminent appearing when He comes to gather the church, His bride. Anyone who has gone back into living according to the sinful nature and are found doing so when the Lord appears, will remain here during the time of God's wrath.

 

[Rob32]

Hey, I posted this in another discussion, but I think it has important things in it if anyone wants to take the time to dissect my ramblings(lol) but seriously...this is an important topic, so I'm glad to see multiple threads about it.


"I'm not sure why the debate of replacement theology is even a thing, the bible is very clear that physical Israel(flesh and blood) was the type and shadow of Christ(the spirit). Israel according to the flesh was the Son of God(exodus 4:22) but Israel according to the flesh was crucified in Christ on the cross, the old passed away and the new has come. The old covenant was a shadow and picture of what was to come in Christ(colossians 2:17, Hebrews 8:5) but Christ, that is CHRIST IN YOU the hope of glory is the fullness, the coming of the lord, the substance that the OLD did not have. the SON, Israel, are those in Christ, JESUS is the head of the Son of God, and his body, the body of Christ, "Christians" are the body of the Son.

This isn't something that should be a mystery to those who claim Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit, its what the spirit teaches(1 john 2:27) so any flesh and blood Jew, is EQUAL to flesh and blood gentiles. because flesh and blood CAN NOT inherit the kingdom. it never was about flesh and blood. it ALWAYS was about the spirit, always was about Christ. it was hidden(not revealed) in the old covenant but it IS REVELAED in Jesus Christ/spirit of Christ. there is adam(natural man/doesn't have the promise/cut off) and there is Christ(spiritual man/led by the spirit/is the promise/filled with the father) only one of those are Israel. Adam was nailed to the cross, and ONLY Christ/spirit was raised up, went to the father and came back down...adam stayed in the grave. so if you call adam the son of God, you are calling FLESH AND BLOOD the inheritor of the kingdom of god. whether Jewish adam, Christian adam, Hindu adam, ...all those things FADE because IN CHRIST there is no jew, or gentile, and CHRIST is the thing that remains, and is not shaken and removed. the whole entire bible speaks to this...its not replacing anything...it ALWAYS WAS CHRIST, there was the old shadow(evening) of the old covenant, with its temples and Sabbaths. and there is the NEW(Day) covenant of Christ, where Christ is the temple, Christ is the Sabbath, Christ is the fast, and the healing and the salvation and the SON. those in the DAY, see this, those in THE NIGHT are drunk on harlotry(double mindedness/doubt/self(flesh) led teaching) Those in the night are taken like a thief in the night, by the DAY, but those who are OF the day(and even ARE the day) wont be taken like a thief, see Christ, see the Son, see the Father, see the unity, see their inheritance and love it, and don't trade it like an Esau for pottage(flesh) in order to walk in LOVE which is the perfect that has come, the fullness of the knowledge of the SON, in order for the body to be built up into HE who is the head...there needs to be a SEEING of the day, what it is, where it is, who it is, why it is. if the day of the lord is still a far off...then you aren't OF that day and still in the night, still waiting for a messiah and still in your sins. the reason certain people push the idea and understanding of this is because it is THAT important. its TRUTH and love upholds the truth. its not replacing anything, it ALWAYS WAS CHRIST. Christ always was and always will be the ONLY ISRAEL. physical Israel according to flesh or the gentiles according to flesh BOTH are not the Son, both are not Israel, but NEED the day of the lord, the Sabbath rest. and its sad to watch most of "Christianity" blindly abide in the night, when the day is more than proclaimed in scripture, its noon day, brightest it can be, and everyone is blind and stumbling around being led astray by wolves and false christs. the WORLD needs to enter the rest...and I guarantee you...the rest is not looking to the future for anything. you look to the future for something you miss the day NOW. you wait for another temple, another Jewish covenant, another ordinance and shadow and OLD temporary covenant, you are also waiting for ANOTHER Christ, and you miss the one that is HERE, you miss Christ in you the hope of Glory. you miss the inheritance of Israel. the ONLY Israel is that of spirit. not that of middle east real-estate, not that of bloodlines, all flesh and blood equally has an entrance available to the for the kingdom of god that come WITHOUT outward observation...so while the majority of darkened understanding Christians that are still very much in the night, seek signs and wonders and outward observations of a kingdom coming, those who know the father, walk into the light of the day, get adam revealed to them, reject adam for Christ, and KNOW WHO THEY ARE, and no one will take their crown(which, as paul said was each other) this isn't to say one person according to the flesh is any worse than another...

I don't go for bigotry and neither does God, of anyone after the flesh. all in the flesh are equally not In christ, and all in Christ are equally the son/Israel. There is CHRIST and it/He is not flesh and blood(no longer know Christ after the flesh), and HE is the only Israel. always was, always will be, with out end. HE is the promised land, the holy ground. HE is the day. the sababth, the lord of that day, and we are grafted into that day, he is Zion, and we are Zion in HIM, we are GODS rest, in christ because ZION is the eternal rest of the lord. its not a mountain in the middle east, its not anything of the temporary, it is in you, the kingdom is in you, and all those with eyes to see will enter said kingdom. And like Jesus told the Pharisees, its a fixation on what you see with natural eyes, that keeps you and others out of that kingdom, out of zion, and away from the inheritance of Israel

Psalms 132 - "For the Lord has chosen Zion;He has desired it for His dwelling place:14“This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it.

The rest of God is his people, and his peoples rest is himself. its eternity IN YOU hidden so that none can find it(Ecclesiastes 3:11) that is was and always will be True Israel."

 

[Spurgeoncy]

Which Are?

How about all of them.

1. In you *christ* shall all th enations of the world be blessed
2. I make you great nations (he did)
3. Many Kings will come from your descendents (they have)
4. I give you (also given to Issac and Jacob) this land of which you are a stranger, forever.

Well they are all
promises EG, except the Kings, which comes in the Covenant.

God actually makes two separate covenants and furthermore promises that are not contingent on anything (so not covenantal), to Abraham/Abram

 

[dcontroversal]

totally ridiculous.
there is one variety of saints.
no pretrib rapture folly.
the saints in Rev are the same ones in the rest of the book(s).

I agree....the two main words used to describe ALL the saved in any time period....

1. saints = Holy Ones I.E. saved
2. elect = our standing in Christ as chosen

and the word THE points to the entire grouping labeled saints.....

 

[Ahwatukee]

I agree....the two main words used to describe ALL the saved in any time period....

1. saints = Holy Ones I.E. saved
2. elect = our standing in Christ as chosen

and the word THE points to the entire grouping labeled saints.....

Except here in Revelation where the word church and saints are divided and thus God making a distinction between the church and the saints that will remain on the earth after the church has been removed. Ask yourself this question dcontroversal, why did the Holy Spirit use only the word ekklessia/church within chapters 1 thru 3 and then never used it again? Coincidence? From chapter 4 onward only the word hagios/saints is used and the word church is never seen again until Rev.22.

Open your eyes to this understanding. There will be saints who come out of the great tribulation that are not the church.

 

[dcontroversal]

Except here in Revelation where the word church and saints are divided and thus God making a distinction between the church and the saints that will remain on the earth after the church has been removed. Ask yourself this question dcontroversal, why did the Holy Spirit use only the word ekklessia/church within chapters 1 thru 3 and then never used it again? Coincidence? From chapter 4 onward only the word hagios/saints is used and the word church is never seen again until Rev.22.

Open your eyes to this understanding. There will be saints who come out of the great tribulation that are not the church.

I suggest you open your eyes...the entire book was written unto 7 churches....there is no split rapture of the saints at the end of the age....

We which are alive and remain and the dead in Christ rising is indicative of ALL the saved in EVERY AGE and TIME frame.....

 

[Ahwatukee]

I suggest you open your eyes...the entire book was written unto 7 churches....there is no split rapture of the saints at the end of the age....

We which are alive and remain and the dead in Christ rising is indicative of ALL the saved in EVERY AGE and TIME frame.....

I assure that my eyes are very opened, as I have been meticulously studying end-time events for over 40 years. I know what I am talking about. You have not answered the question as to why the Holy Spirit stopped using the word ekklesia/church after the end of chapter 3. This should be a red flag. This is not about a word study but recognizing within the context the division between the use of these two words ekklesia and hagios.

The group in Rev.7:9-17 that the elder is introducing are those great tribulation saints. The very fact that he is introducing them after John was previously told to write to the seven churches, demonstrates that this group is not the church and are never referred to as the church, but only as saints.

I am giving you and everyone else the benefit of this study regarding this subject. But I can't force you to believe it. At least look at the information that I have provided and ask yourself the same questions that I have posed.

 

[zone]

Lots of passages Zone, and lots of patient explanations

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You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

 

[zone]

Lots of passages Zone, and lots of patient explanations

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did you have to leave the church that taught it to you?

 

[dcontroversal]

I assure that my eyes are very opened, as I have been meticulously studying end-time events for over 40 years. I know what I am talking about. You have not answered the question as to why the Holy Spirit stopped using the word ekklesia/church after the end of chapter 3. This should be a red flag. This is not about a word study but recognizing within the context the division between the use of these two words ekklesia and hagios.

The group in Rev.7:9-17 that the elder is introducing are those great tribulation saints. The very fact that he is introducing them after John was previously told to write to the seven churches, demonstrates that this group is not the church and are never referred to as the church, but only as saints.

I am giving you and everyone else the benefit of this study regarding this subject. But I can't force you to believe it. At least look at the information that I have provided and ask yourself the same questions that I have posed.

A whole 40 years you say...That means nothing to me bro....The Pharisee taught his whole life as a blind leader of the blind....

a) So what...the letter is written unto the 7 churches...there is NO NEED to use the word CHURCH after chapter 3 because "THE SAINTS" covers ALL who are identified with ANY church on the planet when this goes down.....THE SAINTS which are at Philippi, THE SAINTS which are at Ephesus, THE SAINTS which are at Colosse ETC....THE SAINTS designation has been used ALL through the N.T. to describe SAVED, IMMERSED CHURCH MEMBERS.

b) There is ONE body in HEAVEN and on this earth CHURCHES, each an individual body, separate, autonomous with equal right and authority before God.....The CHURCH is a universal misnomer applied erroneously unto the Lord's CHURCHES as in PLURAL!