Repost: beware of the Hebrew Roots Movement

[RedTent]

hermanodaniel; Here's two websites exposing the HRM (Hebrew Roots Movement)
Signs of Heresies are but not limited to: A redefinition of Biblical terms to fit their heretical doctrines, they teach righteousness is attained by keeping the Law (Torah), they deny the Deity of or diminish Who Jesus Christ is, they repeat the Big Lie told by the Serpent in Genesis 3, they oppose Paul's writings, deny the triune nature of God revealed in the Scriptures, etc. (to say the least) lies from the pit of hell yet they deny hell even exists...

You could say all this about some of what we believe. We believe that righteousness can be attained without keeping the law when scripture says that righteousness is attained through keeping the law and when we don't, being repentant and forgiven by Christ.

We sometimes deny the deity of God the Father, saying it is only Christ. God says they are one, we must acknowlege the triune God, not only pick out Christ.

I don't know what you mean by the big lie of the serpent.

Our church often says that Paul denies the law as from God, lots of untrue things. Paul quotes all scriptures. Often Paul is misunderstood by the church, saying he teaches what is opposed to other scripture. He doesn't. By learning from all scripture we can understand, we can't when we eliminate some as not true.

The triune nature of God is often denied, but not by Hebrew Roots, or the OT. That is done by saying Christ is the only manifestation of God, God is a triune God. Christ is a very important, very necessary part. So is all of God.

If you read of a teaching that hell does not exist, then you are going by man teaching, not God.

 

[zone]

Ezekiel saw PICTURES of Christ, the Church and New Jerusalem.
not some third temple in Jerusalem that now is.

he saw the same city John saw. New Jerusalem - eternity.
he saw it from far off.
in pictures.

this isn't hard.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i wouldn't say the -entire- hebrew roots movement is bad...much of it has -not- fallen into the heresies mentioned in the first post in this thread...

there is a 'dark side' to this movement...i especially am annoyed by the teachers that go around calling everything christians have been doing for 2,000 years 'pagan' and inventing endless connections to 'babylon' in everything other christians do...but they are not all like that...

 

[RedTent]

i wouldn't say the -entire- hebrew roots movement is bad...much of it has -not- fallen into the heresies mentioned in the first post in this thread...

there is a 'dark side' to this movement...i especially am annoyed by the teachers that go around calling everything christians have been doing for 2,000 years 'pagan' and inventing endless connections to 'babylon' in everything other christians do...but they are not all like that...

Are you saying that we must not test the traditions in the church? Scripture does not say this.

Mat 15:3 He answered them, And why do you break God's commandment because of your tradition?

Col 2:8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Are you saying that we must not test the traditions in the church? Scripture does not say this.

Mat 15:3 He answered them, And why do you break God's commandment because of your tradition?

Col 2:8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.

i am saying we should not let liars make demonstrably false claims about our longstanding practices...

my problem is not so much with those who don't observe a tradition...it is with those who -lie- to justify their nonobservance...

an example would be michael rood...he pretty much -made up- a 'pagan origin' for dyed easter eggs...and a lot of uncritical people fell for it...though i am hopeful that a backlash against this kind of thing is beginning...

 

[zone]

Hebrew Roots/Hebraic Roots/Messianic Movements

Seek God - Hebrew Roots/Messianic Movement < click

Hebrew Roots FAQS & Myths

Seek God - Hebrew Roots/Messianic Movement < click

 

[psychomom]

You could say all this about some of what we believe. We believe that righteousness can be attained without keeping the law when scripture says that righteousness is attained through keeping the law and when we don't, being repentant and forgiven by Christ.

Hi, RedTent.

Could you please clarify what you said there?
You say 'we believe righteousness can be obtained without keeping the Law", and then seem to contradict yourself?



A Christian can never, ever obtain righteousness through keeping the Law, though, right?
Our Righteousness is through faith in the Work of the shed blood of Christ, and that the Father raised Him from the dead, thus giving His approval of Christ's sacrifice.

Obedience is a different matter...we obey, and gladly, but it cannot bring us any sort of righteousness.
Faith in Jesus, plus nada.

 

[hermanodaniel]

i wouldn't say the -entire- hebrew roots movement is bad...much of it has -not- fallen into the heresies mentioned in the first post in this thread...

there is a 'dark side' to this movement...i especially am annoyed by the teachers that go around calling everything christians have been doing for 2,000 years 'pagan' and inventing endless connections to 'babylon' in everything other christians do...but they are not all like that...

alittle yeast works through the whole dough...

 

[homwardbound]

amen however many are still not aware of these sects and many have been influenced by these sects in one way or another. The Body of Christ is growing daily but so are the deceived and New believers need to be aware of these sects.
Blessings

I do not think it just happening here, it is also happening in people not believing the he died for all sins all wrongs and that it is finished the sacrificial system that is for man has brought into play that if one sins again after being saved by belief then they need to ask for more forgiveness and this statement of this is nowhere to be found in scripture after the death of Christ and this is why Hebrews 6:6 is in place but see it in context.
I used to call God a liar and ask for more forgiveness until I realized it is done over and out I am forgiven period, and I am not stating in any way tomtake advantage of this no way no how. I am stating as we are learnoing how to say no to unrighteousness and we can't learn how to say no to unrighteousness if one is busy asking God for more forgiveness when he already forgave all once ofr all at the cross, because then you are not believing God at God's word
Hebrews 7:27Unlike those other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices every day. They did this for their own sins first and then for the sins of the people. But Jesus did this once for all when he offered himself as the sacrifice for the people’s sins.
Hebrews 9:12With his own blood—not the blood of goats and calves—he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.
Hebrews 9:26If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice.
Hebrews 9:28so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

[homwardbound]

Hi, RedTent.

Could you please clarify what you said there?
You say 'we believe righteousness can be obtained without keeping the Law", and then seem to contradict yourself?


A Christian can never, ever obtain righteousness through keeping the Law, though, right?
Our Righteousness is through faith in the Work of the shed blood of Christ, and that the Father raised Him from the dead, thus giving His approval of Christ's sacrifice.

Obedience is a different matter...we obey, and gladly, but it cannot bring us any sort of righteousness.
Faith in Jesus, plus nada.

Since one has belief in God and the finished work of God on the cross and accepts this by Faith as done then one goes into rest and that ones works is also finished and raised from the death that they were born with in the flesh to life here and now in the Spirit of God thanking God for this miraculous salvation, all God and none of us. Very rarely seen this way as it is this way in truth, because flesh does not want to believe that through the cross that they are dead to the flesh here and now and made alive to God in the Spirit of God thanks to Jesus who took away the sin of the world through the death at the cross and the proof is in the resurrection in the Spirit of God and is why we need this too because no flesh will ever please God so be daily as you wake up dead in the flesh and alive in the Spirit of God as Paul said it clearly he died Daily
Love you all in truth

 

[homwardbound]

alittle yeast works through the whole dough...

Remember God has said that God has a remnant aqnd for us gentiles to not get proud or boastful over the fact that his first chosen refused to beleive that it is by Faith. because as easy as it is for God to graft us in he could graft us out and only by unbelief can this be not ever grafted really grafted in to begin with, my point is Father does wish for all to see this mercy he has lavished on all the world and see this love that is there and respondback in either belief or not belief. That is all that is left either one believes or they do not

 

[RedTent]

Hi, RedTent.

Could you please clarify what you said there?
You say 'we believe righteousness can be obtained without keeping the Law", and then seem to contradict yourself?



A Christian can never, ever obtain righteousness through keeping the Law, though, right?
Our Righteousness is through faith in the Work of the shed blood of Christ, and that the Father raised Him from the dead, thus giving His approval of Christ's sacrifice.

Obedience is a different matter...we obey, and gladly, but it cannot bring us any sort of righteousness.
Faith in Jesus, plus nada.

Yes, Psychomom, I agree completely. What I don't agree with is to make this the end of the story. God wanted us to know all of Him, in a balance. We are not to take one characteristic, one part of who God is and make it the all of God. I find my church doing this with many things. What you are saying is absolutely true. But it must fit with scripture telling us such as that faith without works is dead, that those in the kingdom cannot be sinners. If we believe in those scriptures only, without the balance of the ones you point out, then those scriptures would be wrong. the other way is also true, if we believed that it is through grace (as it is) without our cooperation at all, if we only believed the scripture telling us about this, we would be wrong. Yet each scripture is SCRIPTURE. From God, correct. To understand God is to make it fit together, each needing the other to arrive at truth. Eliminate one and truth goes.

I feel awfully sorry for those who are doing this. I find the ones who judge the OT as for the Jews only, or judge those who listen to it with reverence for God are ones blind to much of what God says. What these people have against the Roots movement is just that, they are listening to the roots of Christ. I wish I could help. They feel that by filling themselves with Christ and closing out all other they are following God. Filling with Christ IS following God, but the closing out part is not.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, Psychomom, I agree completely. What I don't agree with is to make this the end of the story. God wanted us to know all of Him, in a balance. We are not to take one characteristic, one part of who God is and make it the all of God. I find my church doing this with many things. What you are saying is absolutely true. But it must fit with scripture telling us such as that faith without works is dead, that those in the kingdom cannot be sinners. If we believe in those scriptures only, without the balance of the ones you point out, then those scriptures would be wrong. the other way is also true, if we believed that it is through grace (as it is) without our cooperation at all, if we only believed the scripture telling us about this, we would be wrong. Yet each scripture is SCRIPTURE. From God, correct. To understand God is to make it fit together, each needing the other to arrive at truth. Eliminate one and truth goes.

I feel awfully sorry for those who are doing this. I find the ones who judge the OT as for the Jews only, or judge those who listen to it with reverence for God are ones blind to much of what God says. What these people have against the Roots movement is just that, they are listening to the roots of Christ. I wish I could help. They feel that by filling themselves with Christ and closing out all other they are following God. Filling with Christ IS following God, but the closing out part is not.

So REDTENT, I think and like what you said here so if I may we are to see as a whole the Old and New together and fit right? so I then see it as EX:
If we have a Giant and a Midget standing beside each other both looking down the road which one would see further?
The Giant obviously yes?
Now if the Midget were put on the Giants Shoulders who then would see furtnher? The midget of coarse
So this is how it is the Old Testament is the Giant and the New Trestament is the Midget and whne one does thisthey can see all the way home and forever be thankful so thankful, that htere is no more thought of flesh but flesh thought will try to esase its way back in by hey lok at you you have not sinned, and by this thought from the evil spiritual entitioes against God get us the believers as soon as we accept that thought with oh yeah right I have haven't I.
It is kind of like Paul whosaid please take this away from me and God replied his grace is sufficient for him. Well then is it also to be sufficient for us did he take all sin away from Father's sight at the cross or did he not? Now read waht Paul finally says about this grace being sufficient and goes into praise and glory for his iniquities. Do you think he thus continued in his iniquities are they stopped because sin itself has no more woiod for the fire to keep going when one thanks God and thus the fire of sin goes out
Justlike King Jehosaphat sent out the praise and worship band first up front andconfused the other three armies and thew enemy destroyed themselves, being confused over praise and worship.
Or look at boxing history when Tyson went up against Hollyfield. Hollyfield came out with praise and worship for God. It did not matter the outcome for God was with Hollyfield that night, and there was a lesson to Mike Tyson to have been learned. and I know I learned a lotthat night myself. God is everywhere and trying to show each and everyone of us his Love whether in the boxing ring a football game, a church a felolowship gathering as here in CC, everywhere pleading for us through the Holy Ghost to come to terms that at the cross it is all done everything one needs is right there for life and Godliness. It is a big package and I see past the forgiveness now to life the resurrection that God desires to give all that will ask here and now but it takes first to believe that God by the cross has taken all sin out of the way it is over done 100% forgiven so that one can here and now move onto the new life in Christ and receive the Love of 1 Cor. 13 for this is the fulfillment of the law

 

[carey]

I have to ask are you anti Jewish?

 

[Elin]

Oh I agree. Not bashing it. Just saying there are alot of others out there just as dangerous we should also speak against.. And they call themselves the church!! (which would make them even more dangerous)

You'd be hard pressed to find any more dangerous than they who call themselves the church.

The HRM also considers itself Christian, but their main objective is to deny Paul by setting him against the OT.

Of course, that wipes out the majority of the NT.

Then they deny any of the changes revealed in Heb 7:11-12, 18-19, 8:13.

And since Paul and Luke were buddies, they negate Luke and Acts.

They think Peter was led into heresy by Paul.

So while they completely gut the NT, they see themsevles as Christian.

How's that for setting yourself above Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT given through the apostles?

 

[zone]

You'd be hard pressed to find any more dangerous than they who call themselves the church.

The HRM also considers itself Christian, but their main objective is to deny Paul by setting him against the OT.

Of course, that wipes out the majority of the NT.

Then they deny any of the changes revealed in Heb 7:11-12, 18-19, 8:13.

And since Paul and Luke were buddies, they negate Luke and Acts.

They think Peter was led into heresy by Paul.

So while they completely gut the NT, they see themsevles as Christian.

How's that for setting yourself above Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT given through the apostles?

this is all true Elin.

it starts off small - a little of this here, a little there...and it grows.

until it has nothing to do with Christianity, but has become just what it was intended to be - MODERN Judaism.

as hermanodaniel said.....

alittle yeast works through the whole dough...

 

[homwardbound]

I have to ask are you anti Jewish?

Carey, not sure if your post was asking me and I think that you are since it is posted right after my Post, and do not know where you got this idea, but I personally do not see how one could call themselves a beleiver in God and be against the first chosen of God. God Loves all and this world has gotten to know God as God is through the Israelites. God has shown God's power through these first Chosen, and they are precious to him, or why else would God have put up with their unbeleif God's Mercy has continued to go on and on unless God truly does love
God through the Old Testament Phrophets pleads with his first Chosen over and over again for them to change their minds and trust God
Now Gentile when brought into the Faith have done a l;ot of the same in unbelief.
I see all over the Old and New written trust God have Faith in God. I have not seen anywhere where it ever states to figure it out. I believe I know why it is because GOD has already got it all figured out. And all it takes is to trust God in this and one might learn to count all things as a joy, being thankful in all things whether good or bad
This is what becomes the peace that passes all understanding, quietness and confidence, this is the righteousness of God that believers get to partake in

 

[carey]

It was directed to the original thread starter

 

[carey]

I only asked because a lot of his post seems to be against the old testament, and the title of this thread sent up a red flag, hence, my question

 

[psychomom]

Yes, Psychomom, I agree completely. What I don't agree with is to make this the end of the story. God wanted us to know all of Him, in a balance. We are not to take one characteristic, one part of who God is and make it the all of God. I find my church doing this with many things. What you are saying is absolutely true. But it must fit with scripture telling us such as that faith without works is dead, that those in the kingdom cannot be sinners. If we believe in those scriptures only, without the balance of the ones you point out, then those scriptures would be wrong. the other way is also true, if we believed that it is through grace (as it is) without our cooperation at all, if we only believed the scripture telling us about this, we would be wrong. Yet each scripture is SCRIPTURE. From God, correct. To understand God is to make it fit together, each needing the other to arrive at truth. Eliminate one and truth goes.

I feel awfully sorry for those who are doing this. I find the ones who judge the OT as for the Jews only, or judge those who listen to it with reverence for God are ones blind to much of what God says. What these people have against the Roots movement is just that, they are listening to the roots of Christ. I wish I could help. They feel that by filling themselves with Christ and closing out all other they are following God. Filling with Christ IS following God, but the closing out part is not.

The whole Bible, from Genesis 1:1 to bonded leather (thanks for that, Elin )
is a Christian book.

The Jews were given the oracles of God to point the way to Jesus Christ.
The schoolmaster...pedagogue is the word used...child conductor.
These words were given to them to show the way to Christ. Not so they could be Jews forever, but so they could become receivers of The Promise.

So, yes! The whole Bible is for Christians.