Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

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konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#1
Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

Lukewarm Laodicean saints. Neither cold nor hot, unusable. God wanted them to be cold or hot (Laodicea was known for both its cold and hot water springs) therefore this does not refer to emotion, or passion, or being "on fire for God." God wanted them to be usable, either a cool drink of refreshing water to a thirsty soul, or a warm bath of soothing energy to a tired soul.

And Jesus stands at the door and knocks, He wants to have fellowship with them, to be at home in their church, to eat with them. He wants to have individual intimacy with any who will be with Him.

This is not an initial salvation passage about "asking Jesus into your heart" (Christianese if I've ever heard it).

This is wonderful intimacy with God. Repentance of sin and reconciliation and confession and significance in being aligned with God our creator, the faithful and true who wants to "counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see."
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#2
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

Even David Jeremiah got this wrong recently. Not initial salvation, but intimacy with God. Jesus stands at the door. Are you having dinner with Him?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,710
3,651
113
#3
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(Rev 3:16-18)


Sounds like an apostate Church (perhaps of the last days?) where it needs something a little more radical than 'cozy fellowship'.
It reminds me of much of today's churches that profess Christ but inside are h-a-l-l-o-w.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,726
13,151
113
#4
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

sort of like --

Therefore say to them, Thus declares the LORD of hosts: Return to me, says the LORD of hosts, and I will return to you, says the LORD of hosts. Do not be like your fathers, to whom the former prophets cried out, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, Return from your evil ways and from your evil deeds.’ But they did not hear or pay attention to me, declares the LORD.

(Zechariah 1:3-4)

not "make a covenant with me"
but "remember the covenant I have made with you, and honor it"
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,726
13,151
113
#5
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

or

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry,
and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

(Psalm 2:12)

:)
 
O

Osiyo

Guest
#6
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

The thought is correct, but the conclusion is all too me, myself and I ordinated (physical), it seems. Yes, the text does point to this fact, but the prerequisite is to know Christ already, and we should always have an intimate relationship with Christ, but the text is also literally in contest to all that is stated before this description, correct about the water supplies in the city at that time there was neither water hot enough for a good bath nor cool enough for a soothing drink, but He is also taking about our Spiritual welfare.

The seven letters written to the seven Church ages through out the church age that will come to an end with the rapture, Laodicea represents the Church age just before Christ's return, if we look and the 1st verse of the 4th chapter of this revelation of Jesus Christ, we see the sudden change form the physical world to the spiritual realm, the rapture just might be right there in that verse, because everything before was physical and everything now in spiritual.

The letter and the text that is here about the church in the end times and if our spiritual eyes open and can see then it is right on the money in it's description, for the church has left it's first love, this is not a description of all blood-bought in all churches just of the general church at this time.

Strange doctrines, music that gives one a fuzzy warm feeling but little else (no doctrine), not all music but the general movement is headed this direction, and what is being preached about in the churches, I ma not all too sure but we need to become "fully devoted followers of Jesus" in order to fulfil our mission here in this world, spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ.

it does remind us, that all of us who serve inthis or other Churches, that is not if you do Gods work, but how you do Godswork.


For the bible tells us one day that Osiyo Wado will stand at the Judgment seat of Christ and Gods going to ask me, why I served this Body of Christ, and with what Spirit?

And in a day when Gospel music and Gospel preaching and Gospel work can become so mechanical or ordinated toward me, myself and I. It reminds all of us today that we have to do Gods work with Gods Spirit. We have to do Gods work and approach it with Gods heart because one day, it does not matter if your friends approve of you or how popular you are or I might be. One day the Bible says I will stand, in front of the one whose eyes are like fire, and I can’t get over on Him. There is going to come that day when Paul says that we’ll all stand at the judgment seat of Christ. And we’re going to have to give a review to the Lord, and we will be reviewed, on why we did what we did and how we did it.

As we do Gods work, we must not rob the Glory that is only due to Him. That whatever we do, whatever we say, the Lord wants to remind us through this, that all the Glory and all the honor must go to Jesus Christ.

This is the first principle of Religion, so listen closely. Jesus said My House, my Father’s House shall be called a House of Prayer. The atmosphere of My Father’s House is supposed to be prayer. The atmosphere around the things of My Father must be that aroma of people opening their hearts and coming to my Father in worship and in partition and supplication. And instead of keeping that atmosphere and aiming at that atmosphere and understanding my Father’s purpose, the thing that is supposed to distinguish Christian Churches and Christian people and Christian gatherings, is the aroma and the atmosphere, of prayer. You might say well Brother Osiyo that is not our style, we come from a different tradition, it doesn’t matter what your tradition is, or what my tradition is, its His Father’s House.

And we have in the day that we live in allot of revisionism going on, but it’s not coming from the Church Conferences, or Government, it’s coming from the Church. We are revising what a Church is today, the Bible says and they continued, this early Church, they continued steadfastly in the Apostles Doctrine, and in fellowship and in the breaking of bread and in prayer. Now we have revised that and said, if you can get people for one hour on Sunday morning in a building, that’s the Church, that’s not the Church. We can use every device we want to get people for one hour, and keep it early, and keep it moving, and keep it going, because people have important things to do that day. That’s not the story of the Christian Church, that might be the story of your Church, but that’s not the Church Jesus built. In the history of revivals down through the ages have taught us that whenever things have grown craze, commercial, secular and hard and worldly, God sends a revival. And what’s always the sign of a revival? Behold, they pray, the Church begins to pray. Moody goes somewhere in England, and they begin to pray. Finney goes to upstate New York, and they begin to pray. The great awaking happens in America, and they begin to pray, who was the fancy preacher? Nobody, they prayed. Where was the great music, awe they made great psalms, but that was not the great thing about it, they prayed. Prayer preceded it, prayer kept it going, and the minute prayer ended, the Spirit of God lifted and we got back into tough times for the Church of Jesus Christ
 
G

gregfl

Guest
#7
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

konroh,contradict yourself much?

This is not an initial salvation passage about "asking Jesus into your heart" (Christianese if I've ever heard it).

This is wonderful intimacy with God. Repentance of sin and reconciliation and confession and significance in being aligned with God our creator,
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#8
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(Rev 3:16-18)


Sounds like an apostate Church (perhaps of the last days?) where it needs something a little more radical than 'cozy fellowship'.
It reminds me of much of today's churches that profess Christ but inside are h-a-l-l-o-w.
Ya' mean "hollow" (empty)? :eek:

"Hallow" is holy.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#9
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

Each letter to the seven churches was written "to the churches." To all the churches, these do not represent 7 historical ages of Church history, as seemingly relevant as that might be, show me an historical age that fits the bill and I'll show you where there's always been diversity of churches throughout 2000 years.

This is wonderful intimacy with God. Repentance of sin and reconciliation and confession and significance in being aligned with God our creator,
I'm saying that this is not initial salvation, it's ongoing salvation/sanctification. As believers we need to repent and confess and reconcile and get back in fellowship with, that's the whole point of 1st John. While we are positionally "in Christ" at the moment of belief, we also need to confess "say the same word as" our sins to God to be "in the light as He is in the light."

To say the Laodiceans are an apostate church would be to say that Jesus is holding the apostate church (one of the seven stars) in His hands along with 6 non-apostate churches and He walks among the 7 golden lampstands (one of which is the Apostate church). To this I say, "Me genoito" May it never be, utterly ridiculous.

The Laodiceans are true believers who were not intimate with Christ, they needed to be usable (cold or hot). So important is this that God would say, "I'll spew you out of my mouth!" What do you do with lukewarm coffee? What do you do with warm soda? That's how important it is to not just go to church, but to have an intimate relationship with Christ, to not just believe in Him, but to know Him and be used by Him.

Isn't is amazing that Jesus says that He's walking in the midst of our churches and He's holding the angels of our churches (the seven stars) in His right hand? The seven angels of the churches may be the individual pastors (messangers) of the churches or each church may have an individual angel assigned to it, but either way, this is amazing. Your local body of believers has Jesus knocking on the door yearning for intimate dinner conversation with each person.

He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#10
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

self-serving bump
 
T

tarzan

Guest
#11
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

Lol at self serving.

The lukewarm-ness has to do with contentment. If one is in lifeless contentment, then they take the Lord and others for granted. Notice how the passage you quoted immediately tells you what the definition for being lukewarm means: thinking you have need of nothing, but actually having nothing of value. If you have everything, you're hot. If you have nothing, you're cold. So therefore, they have nothing, but think they have everything. Therefore they are lukewarm. But God would rather that we have nothing and know it, or have everything and know it. Now I do think this is necessary for a relationship with the Lord, but let me ask you something: When you are trying to get a woman to go back to get husband, will you do so by self serving and saying you are a better wife?

Maybe she will be provoked to jealousy. But then would you have the woman to imitate the self serving to gain the position you claim to have?

I know the thought occurred to you when you bumped the thread as a woman who flips her hair and bats her eyes.

And this occurred to me, that if I were a woman, then how should I be seen here?

Of course, I am a man.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#12
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
(Rev 3:16-18)


Sounds like an apostate Church (perhaps of the last days?) where it needs something a little more radical than 'cozy fellowship'.
It reminds me of much of today's churches that profess Christ but inside are h-a-l-l-o-w.
This a 1st century Church, however, Solomon did say there is nothing new under the sun.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#13
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

Lukewarm Laodicean saints. Neither cold nor hot, unusable. God wanted them to be cold or hot (Laodicea was known for both its cold and hot water springs) therefore this does not refer to emotion, or passion, or being "on fire for God." God wanted them to be usable, either a cool drink of refreshing water to a thirsty soul, or a warm bath of soothing energy to a tired soul.

And Jesus stands at the door and knocks, He wants to have fellowship with them, to be at home in their church, to eat with them. He wants to have individual intimacy with any who will be with Him.

This is not an initial salvation passage about "asking Jesus into your heart" (Christianese if I've ever heard it).

This is wonderful intimacy with God. Repentance of sin and reconciliation and confession and significance in being aligned with God our creator, the faithful and true who wants to "counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see."
Yah, God used the geographical location of this church to describe it's spiritual condition. This church was between two locations, the hot springs at Hierapolis and the cold springs/streams of Colossae. Being both hot or cold was good, they both have properties for healing, one of the soul and one of the body. The hot springs and cold streams led to the city of Laodicea, the people of this city at this time would have know exactly what Jesus was saying in the letter of John to them. This passages to the churches in Revelations are not only about intimacy, but it's about our faithful work that Christ has commissioned us to do, in spite of all the opposition we face from the world. Back then in the 1st century, and in many areas today, worshiping other gods was forced upon everyone. They couldn't buy or sell unless they belonged to a guild of trade (like a modern day union) in which many would force the member into orgies and worshiping the emperor and other gods. So the letters to the saints were more of a warning to the Churches to encourage them to keep the faith and overcome the pressures of the world.
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#14
Re: Rev. 3:20 A verse about intimacy with Jesus, not "asking Jesus into your heart"

Are lukewarm Christians saved? They are spit from the Lord's mouth, unusable, untasty, but they are still saved.

How about those Christians who left Paul and were "shipwrecked in their faith?" 1 Tim. 1:19, handed over to Satan so to be taught not to blaspheme. Definitely saved, yet shipwrecked in their faith. How graphic an illustration?

Have you been shipwrecked in your faith? Have you lost faith? Can you put it back together? No, but God can.