Revelation chapter 12 Bible study.

[PlainWord]

t t t

When I teach the Calling Out of the Bride, my heart leaps for JOY, and is full of LOVE for our Bridegroom.
When you teach against it, you are full of bitterness and contempt.

When I teach that HIS Covenant with ISRAEL is eternal, and because of HIS Grace and MERCY, GOD will bring it to fulfillment during the Great Tribulation and on into Christ's Thousand Kingdom where ISRAEL will be His mortal subjects. I Love them, and my heart is Joyful for them!
When you teach against them, you do so by twisting the Scriptures, and again you are full of bitterness, contempt, envy, and coveting, claiming verses and promises to ISRAEL for yourself.

Where is your LOVE?
Where is your JOY?
Why are they MISSING?

The Joy I know when I teach the verses that point to the Calling Out of the Bride, is exactly like:

Luke 24:32 (NIV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us
while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Why are you so full of BITTERNESS and CONTEMPT.

When I Teach about the Future of ISRAEL, I BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAYS:

Revelation 7:4-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I heard the number of those who were sealed.
One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
[SUP]5 [/SUP] of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
[SUP]8 [/SUP] of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

AND WHERE IS THE CHURCH at that POINT IN TIME?

[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"

Malachi 3:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“For I the Lord do not change; . . .

Hosea 1:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Yet I will show love to the house of Judah; and I will save them--not by bow, sword or battle, or by horses and horsemen, but by the Lord their God."


Zechariah 12:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10[/SUP]“Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the house of David and the residents of Jerusalem, and they will look at Me whom they pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child and weep bitterly for Him as one weeps for a firstborn.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning of Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

2 Chronicles 9:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed be the Lord your God, who delighted in you, setting you on His throne to be king for the Lord your God! Because your God has loved Israel, to establish them forever, therefore He made you king over them, to do justice and righteousness."


And when you teach, you CONTRADICT WHAT GOD HAS SAID.

WHY, do you so fervantly strike out at what your Dad and I teach with bitterness and contempt.

And EVERY COMMENT except that last one that started with "You" is a distorted lie about what I and most likely your DAD teaches, I am sure you want to believe those lies are really what we believe. Someone filled your head with UNTRUTHS about what we teach and believe. YOU SEE WE BELIEVE WE HAVE TO KEEP READY WATCHING FOR HIS APPEARING, while your theology leaves people to believe one can wait to GET READY until after the Antichrist is revealed. By the WAY, it is NOT a COMING, when HIS feet do not touch the earth; REMEMBER HE appeared to Paul after His ascension .

THE ONLY ONE YOU GOT ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IS:

"You fail to see that Jesus, Paul and Peter specifically teach against there being a Pre-Trib Rapture."

Who taught you those things, and why does it take lies about what we teach and believe, to support what you want to believe?

Isaiah 5:20 (ASV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

VCO,

What are you talking about?? I am not full of bitterness and contempt. I am full of passion. You don't see what I see. I used to believe as you do. I used to believe in the Rapture thinking the Lord was going to come back to snatch us all away. I used to think I would not have to endure the hardships of the Tribulation. But after searching the Word for nearly 20 years, I realized the Lord does not come back before the Tribulation for some secret Rapture. I learned the Lord returns once, just as He says and that it is AFTER the Tribulation. Once I saw that as the TRUTH, I saw the Rapture theory for what it really is - Satan's Great Deception.

Then I saw how Satan plans to use it - to deceive Christians into "going forth" for him. Years later I then saw that it is even worse than that. Those that do go forth will worship Satan (totally believing Satan is Christ coming to rapture them away) and those that do God will slay. Ask yourself, if there is no pre-trib Rapture, who is more likely to fall for Antichrist, those who believe Christ comes first or those that don't???

Then I read Isaiah 65 and fell off my chair because Isaiah was describing two groups of Christians, the Elect and some other group. I immediately recognized who the other group was because I knew Revelation like that back of my hand having read it hundreds of times and having studied it for over 30 years. The other group Isaiah describes is the Great Multitude of Rev 7. This Great Multitude CAME OUT OF THE TRIBULATION. They were not Raptured out and they were NOT martyred. They are being contrasted with the 144,000 which was discussed right BEFORE they are discussed. They are being contrasted with the martyrs of the 5th Seal whose souls are under the alter. The multitude were standing before the throne of God crying and ashamed.

The Multitude have these 4 descriptions:

Hungry
Thirsty
The Sun will not light on them nor any heat
They were crying

I had always taken this to mean that they had a rough time during the Tribulation and are now being comforted by the Father and the Lamb. But NO, that is NOT what it means. The Sun not "lighting on them nor any heat" means the Son will not cause them shame anymore. Isaiah 65 is the 2nd witness and solves what this means. The same 4 descriptions are given for this Multitude in the SAME ORDER.

Isaiah 65:

11 "But you are those who forsake the Lord, Who forget My holy mountain, Who prepare a table for Gad, And who furnish a drink offering for Meni. 12 Therefore I will number you for the sword, And you shall all bow down to the slaughter; Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight." 13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Behold, My servants shall eat, But you shall be hungry; Behold, My servants shall drink, But you shall be thirsty; Behold, My servants shall rejoice, But you shall be ashamed; 14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, But you shall cry for sorrow of heart, And wail for grief of spirit. 15 You shall leave your name as a curse to My chosen; For the Lord God will slay you, And call His servants by another name;
Who is the CHOSEN mentioned in verse 15? The 144,000. They are the faithful and chosen.

It all hit me. All the warnings about NOT BEING DECEIVED!! All the warnings about WHEN the LORD returns. All the focus on understanding Revelation all makes sense now. The Bible is not written for the unbeliever, it is written for the believer. These warnings aren't for those NOT YET SAVED, but for those who are saved.

The Father does not like his Children listening to Satan. He doesn't like His WORD twisted. He doesn't like when His children are "pregnant" and "nursing" with Satan's lies. The Rapture IS NOT BIBLICAL. It is SATANIC and I see how Satan plans to use it. I wish no Christian to be slayed and ashamed in heaven. Those who believe in the false Rapture will most likely fall for the Antichrist thinking he is the real Christ because the Antichrist comes first. This group will NOT be invited to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, contrary to popular belief. But as we know from 2 Thes 2, God will send strong delusion to those who believed the lie so I doubt my words will help you and it causes me pain.

 

[VCO]

VCO,

What are you talking about?? I am not full of bitterness and contempt. I am full of passion. You don't see what I see. I used to believe as you do. I used to believe in the Rapture thinking the Lord was going to come back to snatch us all away. I used to think I would not have to endure the hardships of the Tribulation. But after searching the Word for nearly 20 years, I realized the Lord does not come back before the Tribulation for some secret Rapture. I learned the Lord returns once, just as He says and that it is AFTER the Tribulation. Once I saw that as the TRUTH, I saw the Rapture theory for what it really is - Satan's Great Deception.

Then I saw how Satan plans to use it - to deceive Christians into "going forth" for him. Years later I then saw that it is even worse than that. Those that do go forth will worship Satan (totally believing Satan is Christ coming to rapture them away) and those that do God will slay. Ask yourself, if there is no pre-trib Rapture, who is more likely to fall for Antichrist, those who believe Christ comes first or those that don't???

Then I read Isaiah 65 and fell off my chair because Isaiah was describing two groups of Christians, the Elect and some other group. I immediately recognized who the other group was because I knew Revelation like that back of my hand having read it hundreds of times and having studied it for over 30 years. The other group Isaiah describes is the Great Multitude of Rev 7. This Great Multitude CAME OUT OF THE TRIBULATION. They were not Raptured out and they were NOT martyred. They are being contrasted with the 144,000 which was discussed right BEFORE they are discussed. They are being contrasted with the martyrs of the 5th Seal whose souls are under the alter. The multitude were standing before the throne of God crying and ashamed.

The Multitude have these 4 descriptions:

Hungry
Thirsty
The Sun will not light on them nor any heat
They were crying

I had always taken this to mean that they had a rough time during the Tribulation and are now being comforted by the Father and the Lamb. But NO, that is NOT what it means. The Sun not "lighting on them nor any heat" means the Son will not cause them shame anymore. Isaiah 65 is the 2nd witness and solves what this means. The same 4 descriptions are given for this Multitude in the SAME ORDER.

Isaiah 65:

11 "But you are those who forsake the Lord, Who forget My holy mountain, Who prepare a table for Gad, And who furnish a drink offering for Meni. 12 Therefore I will number you for the sword, And you shall all bow down to the slaughter; Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight." 13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Behold, My servants shall eat, But you shall be hungry; Behold, My servants shall drink, But you shall be thirsty; Behold, My servants shall rejoice, But you shall be ashamed; 14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, But you shall cry for sorrow of heart, And wail for grief of spirit. 15 You shall leave your name as a curse to My chosen; For the Lord God will slay you, And call His servants by another name;
Who is the CHOSEN mentioned in verse 15? The 144,000. They are the faithful and chosen.

It all hit me. All the warnings about NOT BEING DECEIVED!! All the warnings about WHEN the LORD returns. All the focus on understanding Revelation all makes sense now. The Bible is not written for the unbeliever, it is written for the believer. These warnings aren't for those NOT YET SAVED, but for those who are saved.

The Father does not like his Children listening to Satan. He doesn't like His WORD twisted. He doesn't like when His children are "pregnant" and "nursing" with Satan's lies. The Rapture IS NOT BIBLICAL. It is SATANIC and I see how Satan plans to use it. I wish no Christian to be slayed and ashamed in heaven. Those who believe in the false Rapture will most likely fall for the Antichrist thinking he is the real Christ because the Antichrist comes first. This group will NOT be invited to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, contrary to popular belief. But as we know from 2 Thes 2, God will send strong delusion to those who believed the lie so I doubt my words will help you and it causes me pain.

t t t
I suspect you who claims to be enlightened, is the one who has been deceived. Who has been teaching you these things full of twisted untruths. Teachers who have had the most infuence on my understandings include:

Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.
Dr. Charles Stanley
Dr. Ed Young, Sr.
Dr. Adrian Rodgers
Dr. Richard Lee
Dr. Ben Haden
Dr. Adrian Rodgers
Dr. Zola Levitt
Dr. Chuck Swindoll
Dr. Gil Rugh
Dr. Billy Graham
Dr. Dave Hunt
Dr. Warren Wiersbe
Dr. J. Vernon McGee
D.L. Moody
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost

As well local Pastors, especially the late Pastor Neil Berry.

So who do learn these twisted untruths from, about what we who believe in the Rapture actually teach and believe.



The great falling away from truth has already begun.
They doubt that all the Bible is truly the WORD of GOD.
They think that receiving Jesus as Savior is enough, while remaining lord of their own lives.
They think that they do not have to get ready for the LORD until later;
They scoff at the fact that Christ will come to Call Out His Bride, soon and very soon.
They mistakenly think we are spiritual Israelites and covet promises to Israel for themselves.
They can't be bothered to genuinely serve HIM.
They frequently skip going to Church,
They almost NEVER witness to anyone.
They talk like a Christian, but live like the Devil.
They have many things in their lives that are more important to them than Jesus Christ.
They are not hungry for the Teaching of the Word.
They come to Church to be entertained, not to truly Worship.
They have no reverence for GOD.
They close a blind eye to brothers in need.
They rob God of tythes and offerings.
They seldom give to Charities.
They think they already have enough of GOD and His Teachings.
They think they are spiritually rich, when they are in reality spiritually bankrupt.
They never show up when Pastor asks for help for a Work Day to Clean Up aroung the Church.
Their LOVE for Christ and the Brethren has grown cold.
They focus on edifying self instead of edifying others.
They think the work of the ministry is the Pastor's job, when it is he who is to train US to do the work of the ministry.


It is referred to as the Laodicean Age, and we are NEARLY to the end of it.

Revelation 3:14-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] “Write to the angel of the church in Laodicea: “The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Originator of God’s creation says:
[SUP]15 [/SUP] I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were cold or hot.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of My mouth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Because you say, ‘I’m rich; I have become wealthy and need nothing,’ and you don’t know that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] I advise you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire so that you may be rich, white clothes so that you may be dressed and your shameful nakedness not be exposed, and ointment to spread on your eyes so that you may see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be committed and repent.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Listen! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and have dinner with him, and he with Me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The victor: I will give him the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I also won the victory and sat down with My Father on His throne.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.”


Satan's Great Desception, is that you can become like GOD.

And WHERE is that Multitude mentioned in Rev. 7:9-12? Standing before the Throne of Grace in HEAVEN. The Raptured Church. THEN in verse 13 one of the Church-Age Elders points to those Under the Altar, NOT IN THEIR RESURRECTED GLORIFIED BODIES, and says:

"Revelation 7:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”

Revelation 6:9-11 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

The Elder knew they were not part of the Church standing before the throne, yet they too were in Heaven in a different position, still awaiting their resurrection.

Revelation 7:14 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

A specified group of saints, who are seperate from the Church.

AND when does that group get their resurrected, glorified bodies?

Revelation 20:4 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. {<--Those are the Church-Age saints.} Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, {<--Those are the Tribulation-Age saints.}and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

How do we know that those who were given authority to judge, are specifically the CHURCH? AND ALSO NOTICE, they are NOT spoken of as being souls, so they clearly are already resurrected.

1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


Revelation 20:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Therefore the first resurrection comes in two phases, the dead IN Christ rise first; then later those come to believe in HIM after the Church-AGE.

When do the Old Testament saints get their resurrected bodies?

NOW that is an interesting question that I am not sure the Bible specifically answers. Is it possible that those who believed Messiah would COME to provide perfect sacrifice for Salvation, are ALSO CONSIDERED TO BE "IN CHRIST"? Then they would also be considered part of the Bride. If not, then I would have to assume they would be resurrected after Tribulation saints, in keeping with "the First shall be Last". If anyone KNOWS of a specific verse that mentions when the Old Testament saints are to be resurrected, PLEASE SHARE IT. AND what about Believers who die of old age during His THOUSaND YEAR KINGDOM? Are they instantly resurrected or do they have to wait until "REST OF THE DEAD" are resurrected after HIS reign from the Throne of David?

Isaiah 65:20 (NIV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

 

[PlainWord]

I suspect you who claims to be enlightened, is the one who has been deceived. Who has been teaching you these things full of twisted untruths. Teachers who have had the most infuence on my understandings include:

Dr. John MacArthur, Jr.
Dr. Charles Stanley
Dr. Ed Young, Sr.
Dr. Adrian Rodgers
Dr. Richard Lee
Dr. Ben Haden
Dr. Adrian Rodgers
Dr. Zola Levitt
Dr. Chuck Swindoll
Dr. Gil Rugh
Dr. Billy Graham
Dr. Dave Hunt
Dr. Warren Wiersbe
Dr. J. Vernon McGee
D.L. Moody
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost

As well local Pastors, especially the late Pastor Neil Berry.

Nice list of Men. So, I should take their view of God's written word? I have a ton of respect and admiration for these guys and I am fully aware of all the great religious leaders of our day and that they believe (and preach) the Rapture doctrine. It kind of reminds me of the religious leaders of Christ's day who got it wrong too.

Here are a couple of people who taught in the Single Return of Christ:

Jesus
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Paul

I think I will take their word on this over the men you listed. They were a little closer to the lesson.

I never claim to be more spiritually led than anyone else. That would be arrogant. I am finding in my walk that anyone who has believed the Rapture lie for a long time will NEVER change their mind regardless of any argument I make nor all the scriptures that prove them wrong. This is the strong delusion that God sends them. They didn't have the love of the truth on this issue.

Gideon started out with 32,000 men and God reduced it to 300 so that He would get the glory. History repeats. The Church will be wiped out and God will do battle against Satan with a small group represented by the 144,000. Unless you are one of these Elect, you don't have the seal of the knowledge and truth.

We see this play out clearly in Dan 11. You want to say that all saints who appear during the Tribulation, are newly converted Christians. Of course nowhere does it say this either, but let's not let the facts get in the way. It is clear to me that Tribulation era Saints, the Elect, the Remnant are heroes. They didn't become spiritual giants overnight. They entered the Tribulation being spiritually virgin not having slept with Satan's lies. They have the love of the truth...

31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.

 

[PlainWord]

VCO,

You probably think Eve ate a piece of fruit too that Satan gave her and that is what caused the earth to be condemned and all mankind to become mortal. Right? You probably think Ham saw Noah's naked and that's why Noah cursed him rather than the truth which was Ham slept with his mother, Noah's wife.

 

[VCO]

Nice list of Men. So, I should take their view of God's written word? I have a ton of respect and admiration for these guys and I am fully aware of all the great religious leaders of our day and that they believe (and preach) the Rapture doctrine. It kind of reminds me of the religious leaders of Christ's day who got it wrong too.

Here are a couple of people who taught in the Single Return of Christ:

Jesus
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Paul

I think I will take their word on this over the men you listed. They were a little closer to the lesson.

I never claim to be more spiritually led than anyone else. That would be arrogant. I am finding in my walk that anyone who has believed the Rapture lie for a long time will NEVER change their mind regardless of any argument I make nor all the scriptures that prove them wrong. This is the strong delusion that God sends them. They didn't have the love of the truth on this issue.

Gideon started out with 32,000 men and God reduced it to 300 so that He would get the glory. History repeats. The Church will be wiped out and God will do battle against Satan with a small group represented by the 144,000. Unless you are one of these Elect, you don't have the seal of the knowledge and truth.

We see this play out clearly in Dan 11. You want to say that all saints who appear during the Tribulation, are newly converted Christians. Of course nowhere does it say this either, but let's not let the facts get in the way. It is clear to me that Tribulation era Saints, the Elect, the Remnant are heroes. They didn't become spiritual giants overnight. They entered the Tribulation being spiritually virgin not having slept with Satan's lies. They have the love of the truth...

31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.

You certainly can choose to believe differently. If we have taught it right, you will be left behind, but if you have taught it right, I ALREADY AM READY AND I KEEP READY. Oh I also teach, how bad the Great Tribulation is going to be too, because I know that a few who came through that Broad Gate, will turn around and come through the Narrow Gate after the Church is gone. After we are Called Out to go up to the Wedding of the Lamb; they will CRITICALLY need that information once the Antichrist takes a seat in the Temple of GOD, and I ESPECIALLY warn them about the Mark of the Beast and how they must refuse it at ALL COSTS, even if it means watching their children being sent to the guillotine.

So we will see who has taught it right, Soon and Very Soon!

Andrae Crouch *Soon And Very Soon* "Live" - YouTube

Oh by the way, I DO NOT TEACH that those Tribution saints ARE NOT LESS worthy, than those who are part of the Bride. They just were NOT READY with their Lamps Full when the Bridegroom came. Those will then have to refuse the Mark of the Beast, becoming Martyred saints, and will have a different position in the Kingdom than the Bride. BUT just like the different types of members within the Body of Christ, the positions are all co-equally important. For example: the Pastor's job is the Servant who serves the spiritual food that GOD prepared; and the maintenance man's job is the Servant who maintains the plumbing and building; AND THEY ARE are co-equally important. Don't believe me? Then wait until the first time the sewer lines are backing up on Sunday Morning and then rethink your opinion.

I see I listed Dr. Adrian Rodgers twice on my my list and forgot Dr. Walter Martin's name. I forgot how much I miss Dr. Adrian Rodgers' teaching style. I even found a site of his where he has some short sermonettes on the Christian Basics that are ideal for the new believer or someone you are trying to lead through that Narrow Gate of receiving Jesus Christ as LORD: Homepage

 

[PlainWord]

You certainly can choose to believe differently. If we have taught it right, you will be left behind, but if you have taught it right, I ALREADY AM READY AND I KEEP READY. Oh I also teach, how bad the Great Tribulation is going to be too, because I know that a few who came through that Broad Gate, will turn around and come through the Narrow Gate after the Church is gone. After we are Called Out to go up to the Wedding of the Lamb; they will CRITICALLY need that information once the Antichrist takes a seat in the Temple of GOD, and I ESPECIALLY warn them about the Mark of the Beast and how they must refuse it at ALL COSTS, even if it means watching their children being sent to the guillotine.

So we will see who has taught it right, Soon and Very Soon!

Andrae Crouch *Soon And Very Soon* "Live" - YouTube

Oh by the way, I DO NOT TEACH that those Tribution saints ARE NOT LESS worthy, than those who are part of the Bride. They just were NOT READY with their Lamps Full when the Bridegroom came. Those will then have to refuse the Mark of the Beast, becoming Martyred saints, and will have a different position in the Kingdom than the Bride. BUT just like the different types of members within the Body of Christ, the positions are all co-equally important. For example: the Pastor's job is the Servant who serves the spiritual food that GOD prepared; and the maintenance man's job is the Servant who maintains the plumbing and building; AND THEY ARE are co-equally important. Don't believe me? Then wait until the first time the sewer lines are backing up on Sunday Morning and then rethink your opinion.

I see I listed Dr. Adrian Rodgers twice on my my list and forgot Dr. Walter Martin's name. I forgot how much I miss Dr. Adrian Rodgers' teaching style. I even found a site of his where he has some short sermonettes on the Christian Basics that are ideal for the new believer or someone you are trying to lead through that Narrow Gate of receiving Jesus Christ as LORD: Homepage

You also left out Chuck Smith, founder of Calvary Chapel who died recently. You also left out Tim LaHaye, John Hagee, Franklin Graham and many others. But that's okay. I get the point. Yes, it does bother me that so many distinguished men have it wrong. But I don't know how much they actually studied the issue or how willing they were to just accept the teaching when they were in seminary.

Before Margaret MacDonald and John Darby anyone reading the Bible would never conclude that there was a Rapture. There will be many powerful religious leaders standing before the Throne on Judgment Day with heads held low. I can almost hear Christ asking, "Did I not clearly tell you when I was returning? Did I stutter? I never taught a Rapture. Did I not tell you in Mark 13:23, "Take heed, see, I have told you all things beforehand?" Did I not say in John 15:15, "All things that I have heard from my father I have made known to you." "So where did I teach you about a Rapture? Where do you hear the rapture lesson come from my mouth you foolish people???"

So you are a pastor? The shepherd of a flock? What do you teach concerning the below passages?

19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Please give me a study on these two passages. Are Jesus and John discussing literal or spiritually virgins? What does it mean to be a firstfruit?

 

[VCO]

You also left out Chuck Smith, founder of Calvary Chapel who died recently. You also left out Tim LaHaye, John Hagee, Franklin Graham and many others. But that's okay. I get the point. Yes, it does bother me that so many distinguished men have it wrong. But I don't know how much they actually studied the issue or how willing they were to just accept the teaching when they were in seminary.

Before Margaret MacDonald and John Darby anyone reading the Bible would never conclude that there was a Rapture. There will be many powerful religious leaders standing before the Throne on Judgment Day with heads held low. I can almost hear Christ asking, "Did I not clearly tell you when I was returning? Did I stutter? I never taught a Rapture. Did I not tell you in Mark 13:23, "Take heed, see, I have told you all things beforehand?" Did I not say in John 15:15, "All things that I have heard from my father I have made known to you." "So where did I teach you about a Rapture? Where do you hear the rapture lesson come from my mouth you foolish people???"

So you are a pastor? The shepherd of a flock? What do you teach concerning the below passages?

19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Please give me a study on these two passages. Are Jesus and John discussing literal or spiritually virgins? What does it mean to be a firstfruit?

Never heard of Chuck Smith, Margaret MacDonald, nor John Darby, AND I never listened to Tim LaHaye much, and John Hagee was not a preacher that I listened to; AND since I am 64 years old Franklin Graham had no influence on my spiritual growth. The Charismatics I definately do not listen to, because I am VERY DEFINATELY NOT A CHARISMATIC, NOR A PENTECOSTAL. I do not believe in the modern day tongues movement, nor do I believe in ordaining women.

As for the verses you named, YOU FORGOT THE BOOK and THE CHAPTER numbers.

 

[leo1]

tim lahaye and john hagee are in the dictionary under false prophets. he may have forgot chapter & verse, but boy can he paste! BTW-a whore is someone who follows a different god than Father, a virgin is the opposite of that,someone who followed Christ from jump street, never faltered never wavered.

 

[PlainWord]

Never heard of Chuck Smith, Margaret MacDonald, nor John Darby, AND I never listened to Tim LaHaye much, and John Hagee was not a preacher that I listened to; AND since I am 64 years old Franklin Graham had no influence on my spiritual growth. The Charismatics I definately do not listen to, because I am VERY DEFINATELY NOT A CHARISMATIC, NOR A PENTECOSTAL. I do not believe in the modern day tongues movement, nor do I believe in ordaining women.

As for the verses you named, YOU FORGOT THE BOOK and THE CHAPTER numbers.

Mat 24 and Rev 7.

 

[PlainWord]

tim lahaye and john hagee are in the dictionary under false prophets. he may have forgot chapter & verse, but boy can he paste! BTW-a whore is someone who follows a different god than Father, a virgin is the opposite of that,someone who followed Christ from jump street, never faltered never wavered.

You gave him the answer. I wanted to see if he knew on his own. Once you realize that the 144,000 are spiritually virgin and not a bunch of nerdy kids (not literal virgins) then you start to look at the 144K in a different light. Once you see that they truly are the Elect, the Chosen and Faithful then you realize that if there was a pre-trib Rapture that they would have been the first to be raptured. Their presence in the Tribulation alone totally destroys the Rapture lie and exposes it for what it is, Satan's Great Lie whereby he will destroy the church.

Jesus confirms the pregnant theme in Mat 24 being spiritually pregnant with Satan's lies, or false religion or doctrine - whatever you want to call it. He was not talking about literal pregnant or nursing mothers as it is not a curse to have the gift of a child nor can you be responsible for being pregnant when the flight begins.

 

[PlainWord]

Never heard of Chuck Smith, Margaret MacDonald, nor John Darby, AND I never listened to Tim LaHaye much, and John Hagee was not a preacher that I listened to; AND since I am 64 years old Franklin Graham had no influence on my spiritual growth. The Charismatics I definately do not listen to, because I am VERY DEFINATELY NOT A CHARISMATIC, NOR A PENTECOSTAL. I do not believe in the modern day tongues movement, nor do I believe in ordaining women.

As for the verses you named, YOU FORGOT THE BOOK and THE CHAPTER numbers.

John Nelsen Darby is widely considered the father of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine from the 1830s. Although it wasn't his idea, he had enough fame and clout to spread the doctrine. The was the leader of the Plymouth Brethren and also often credited with being the Father of Dispensationalism.

Here is a piece on Margaret MacDonald from Wikipedia.

Margaret MacDonald was born in 1815 in Port Glasgow, Scotland and died around 1840.[SUP][1][/SUP] She lived with her two older brothers, James and George, both of whom ran a shipping business.[SUP][1][/SUP] Beginning in 1826 and through 1829, a few preachers in Scotland emphasized that the world's problems could only be addressed through an outbreak of supernatural gifts from the Holy Spirit.[SUP][2][/SUP] In response, Isabella and Mary Campbell of the parish of Rosneath manifested charismatic experiences such as speaking in tongues. Around 1830, miraculous healings were reported through James Campbell, first of his sister Margaret MacDonald and then of Mary Campbell (through James's letter to Mary).[SUP][3][/SUP] Shortly thereafter James and George MacDonald manifested the speaking and interpretations of tongues, and soon others followed suit in prayer meetings. These charismatic experiences garnered major national attention. Many came to see and investigate these events. Some, such as Edward Irving and Henry Drummond, regarded these events as genuine displays from the Holy Spirit. Others, including John Nelson Darby and Benjamin Wills Newton, whom the Brethren sent on their behalf to investigate, came to the conclusion that these displays were demonic.[SUP][4][/SUP]


Margaret saw a vision of a Rapture in a state of delusion. You can read her utterance here:

Margaret McDonald (visionary) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The whole thing was a hoax but Darby ran with it. The Rapture concept was never taught before 1830. "Behold there is nothing new under the sun." The 1800s were a period of enormous Satanic activity were we had the Rapture, Evolution, several new denominations (which shall be nameless), Communism, the New World Order under the Illuminati, etc.

The Rapture is a scam and a hoax. It was NEVER taught in the Bible. Verses used to support the Rapture really address the Second Coming but they have been twisted and used to explain things that people don't understand.

 

[Isdaniel]

The Jewish Wedding Celiebration of the time of Christ always lasted a Week.
But like the Prophecies in Daniel, I believe it will be a Week of years.

The 70th week prophecy is a continuous prophey .You cannot count to 1-69 week jump a couple 1000years and end the 70th week in this time the bible does not support that theory .

 

[mpaper345]

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

This is Israel,which is Jacob and his wife and their 12 children,the twelve tribes of Israel.


[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This is referring to Jesus who came from Israel.


[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This is Lucifer that rebelled and took some of the angels with him.


[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This is Jesus.


[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.+

This is Israel who is protected for the first three and one half years of the 7 years tribulation period.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Some people think this war has already happened but it has not.This war will happen half way through the 7 years tribulation period and that is when Satan appears as the man of sin to deceive the nations.

After the 6th trumpet that is a war that is so terrible that the people will want to know what to do to stop the fighting on earth and they will not trust government anymore to solve their problems.

They will not turn to God to help them and God said they will not repent of their sins so that is when God gives them the man of sin to rule over them.

I believe the 6 trumpets are warnings to mankind to turn to God because of the troubles and fighting on earth but after the 6th trumpet they still will not turn to God so God lets the man of sin rule over them.

Satan is cast to earth along with the fallen angels which the earth becomes their holding cell.Satan is no longer the prince of the power of the air but all the fallen angels are confined to the earth which the Bible says that the earth has become the habitation of devils and the cage of every foul and unclean bird.

The air above us is called heaven and when it says that Satan was cast out of heaven it means the second heaven not the third heaven which he was cast out before Adam and Eve.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Now salvation has come because God will catch His people away and put down the beast system.The Bible says that the saints will not be united with Christ until the man of sin appears claiming to be God so the saints will not be caught up until the world takes the mark of the beast for then the world cannot repent of their sins anymore.


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The devil will cause chaos as he tries to take as many away as possible which the Bible says by peace he shall destroy many and will destroy the mighty and holy people physically and the saints are given in to his hands for three and one half years.

The Bible says that the devil is mad for he knows that he has a short time which he has only three and one half years to rule and then he is put down.The Bible says when the man of sin claims to be God he has power to continue for three and one half years which God is allowing him to rule over all the people who do not love him,which is the strong delusion that God will send all the people who love not righteousness and the world will be deceived by a devil to follow the man of sin.


[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The devil is mad at Israel for bringing forth the child Christ Jesus that gave salvation to the world and defeated the devil where the devil has a short time and then he is punished.


[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Israel is protected for the last three and one half years of the 7 years tribulation and that is because God has a plan to restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews and all Gentile nations will fall.Israel will be the mighty nation in the millennial reign of Christ who will rule with both Jew and Gentile.


[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ(Revelation 12).

The devil will make war against all the Jews that have turned to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah which God will send them 2 witnesses to turn their hearts to the truth.

 

[PlainWord]

After the 6th trumpet that is a war that is so terrible that the people will want to know what to do to stop the fighting on earth and they will not trust government anymore to solve their problems.

They will not turn to God to help them and God said they will not repent of their sins so that is when God gives them the man of sin to rule over them.

I believe the 6 trumpets are warnings to mankind to turn to God because of the troubles and fighting on earth but after the 6th trumpet they still will not turn to God so God lets the man of sin rule over them.

You were doing good until here. Satan is already back on earth before the 6th trumpet. We are told he is in charge of the 5th trumpet locusts. The Trumpets are not of God, they are Satan. The proof is from Rev 18.

5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.

If you study the bowls you will see they are poured out in double strength to the trumpets. Where it says 1/3 of this or that for the trumpets, it says ALL of this or that for the Bowls. What is left after 1/3? 2/3. 2/3 is double and is ALL that is left.

 

[VCO]

You were doing good until here. Satan is already back on earth before the 6th trumpet. We are told he is in charge of the 5th trumpet locusts. The Trumpets are not of God, they are Satan. The proof is from Rev 18.

5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.

If you study the bowls you will see they are poured out in double strength to the trumpets. Where it says 1/3 of this or that for the trumpets, it says ALL of this or that for the Bowls. What is left after 1/3? 2/3. 2/3 is double and is ALL that is left.

t t t

EXO. 19:16 thunderings and lightnings. The dramatic visual presentation of God’s presence on the mountain, accompanied by thick cloud and trumpet blast, more than impressed the onlookers with God’s majesty and power. They trembled, but so did Moses (Heb. 12:21). The unusual was happening, not the usual phenomena from volcanic activity, as some writers have proposed.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Numbers 10:1-10 Israel was also to be guided by the blowing of the two silver trumpets made by Moses. Both a call to gather and a call to march were communicated with the trumpets.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Numbers 10:2 trumpets. According to a Jewish tradition, these instruments were between twelve and twenty inches long and had a narrow tube that was flared at the end. hammered work. The same description is given concerning the cherubim above the mercy seat. See Exodus 25:18; 37:7.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Numbers 10:3, 4 both... one. The first function of the trumpets was to gather the people to the tabernacle. When both trumpets were blown, all adult males of the congregation were to gather. If only one trumpet was blown, the leaders were to come.Numbers 10:5 advance. The second purpose of the trumpets was to give a signal indicating that the tribes were to set out on their march. The exact difference between the blowing for the gathering at the tabernacle and for the march is not known. Jewish tradition said the convocation sound was a long steady blast, while the advance signal was a succession of three shorter notes.
Numbers 10:8 an ordinance forever. The blowing of the horns was to be a perpetual ordinance in Israel, calling the people to worship or to war.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Rev. 8:1 the seventh seal. This seal includes not only an earthquake, but the seven trumpet judgments (8:1-9:21; 11:15ff.) and the seven bowl judgments (16:1-21), with the bowl judgments flowing out of the seventh trumpet and coming in rapid succession just before Christ’s return (see note on 6:1). silence in heaven. The silence of awe and anticipation at the grim reality of the judgments God is about to unleash.
Rev. 8:2 seven trumpets. In Revelation, trumpets primarily announce impending judgment. The trumpets are of greater intensity than the seals, but not as destructive as the final bowl judgments will be (cf. 16:1-21). They occur during the final three and one-half years, but the time of each is indefinite, except the effects of the fifth trumpet judgment, which will last five months (9:10). The first four announce the divine destruction of earth’s ecology (vv. 6-12), while the final three involve demonic devastation of earth’s inhabitants (9:1-21; 11:15ff.).
Rev. 8:3 censer. A golden pan, suspended on a rope or chain, that was used to transport fiery coals from the brazen altar to the altar of incense, in order to ignite the incense, symbolizing the prayers of the people (5:8; Ex. 27:3; cf. Luke 1:8, 9). This occurred twice daily at the time of the morning and evening sacrifices.
Rev. 8:5 thunderings, lightnings. See note on 4:5. an earthquake. Surely of equal or greater intensity than the one described in the sixth seal (see note on 6:12).
Rev. 8:7 hail and fire followed, mingled with blood. This may describe volcanic eruptions that could certainly result from the earthquake in verse 5. The steam and water thrown into the sky by such eruptions could easily condense into hail and fall to earth along with the fiery lava (cf. Ex. 9:13-25). Dust and gases may so contaminate falling liquid water that it appears blood red. a third of the trees were burned up. The lava storm will create a blazing fire that devastates one-third of the earth’s forests.
Rev. 8:8 like a great mountain. Probably a huge meteor or asteroid surrounded by gases that will ignite as it enters earth’s atmosphere. Its impact will create a tidal wave, destroying one-third of the world’s ships. sea became blood. This may refer to an event known as red tides, caused by billions of dead microorganisms poisoning the water—in this case the result of the meteor’s collision. Or it may be actual blood, a clear act of eschatological judgment.
Rev. 8:10 great star fell. Another celestial body, perhaps a comet in this case since it leaves a fiery trail (see notes on v. 8; 6:13). It will disintegrate as it nears the earth, scattering over the globe.
Rev. 8:11 Wormwood. A bitter, poisonous substance, derived from a root, that causes drunkenness and eventually death (Deut. 29:18; Prov. 5:4; Jer. 9:15; Lam. 3:15).

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2"]The Seven Trumpets[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. Trumpet One
(Rev. 8:7)[/TD]
[TD]Ravaging fires[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Trumpet Two
(Rev. 8:8, 9)[/TD]
[TD]Seas polluted[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Trumpet Three
(Rev. 8:10, 11)[/TD]
[TD]Fresh water contaminated[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Trumpet Four
(Rev. 8:12, 13)[/TD]
[TD]Celestial disruption[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. Trumpet Five
(Rev. 9:1-12)[/TD]
[TD]Demon invasion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. Trumpet Six
(Rev. 9:13-21)[/TD]
[TD]Demons wage war[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. Trumpet Seven
(Rev. 11:15-19)[/TD]
[TD]The seven bowls (see note on 6:1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

Rev. 8:12 a third of the sun was struck. God will supernaturally reduce the intensity of the celestial bodies by one-third. The loss of solar heat will cause a radical drop in temperature, producing severe changes in meteorological, botanical, and biological cycles (Luke 21:25; cf. Ex. 10:21-23). But this is temporary (cf. 16:8, 9).
Rev. 8:13 Woe, woe, woe. One for each remaining trumpet blast. Although the first four trumpets are unimaginable, they will be nothing like the three to come (9:1-21; 11:15ff.).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Rev. 9:12 One woe. The first of the final three trumpets (see note on 8:13).
Rev. 9:13 horns of the golden altar. God’s design for the golden altar of incense included small protrusions (horns) on each corner (Ex. 30:2; see note on 6:9). Normally a place of mercy; as God responds to His people’s prayers, the altar will resound with a cry for vengeance.
Rev. 9:14 four angels. Scripture never refers to holy angels as being bound. These are fallen angels—another segment of Satan’s force whom God had bound, but will free to accomplish His judgment through their horsemen (vv. 15-19). God’s control extends even to the demonic forces; they are bound or freed at His command. Euphrates. One of the four rivers that flowed through the Garden of Eden (see note on 16:12; cf. Gen. 2:14). Starting with Babel, this region has spawned many of the world’s pagan religions.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Rev. 10:1-11:14 These verses serve as an interlude between the sixth trumpet and the seventh trumpet (11:15). The seals and the bowls also have a brief interlude between their sixth and seventh judgments (7:1-17; 16:15). God’s intention is to encourage and comfort His people in the midst of the fury and to remind them that He is still sovereign, that He remembers His people, and that they will ultimately be victorious.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Rev. 11:14 second woe. The sixth trumpet (see note on 9:12). The interlude between the sixth and seventh trumpets ends (see note on 10:1). Israel’s repentance will shortly usher in the millennial kingdom (Acts 3:19-21; Rom. 11:25, 26). But first will come the final, climactic judgments.
Rev. 11:15 seventh angel sounded. The seventh trumpet includes the seven bowl, final judgments depicted in chapter 16 and all the events leading up to the establishing of the millennial kingdom (ch. 20) and the coronation of Jesus as King (ch. 19). kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ. The singular (kingdom) is the preferred reading. Despite its many political and cultural divisions, the Bible views the world spiritually as one kingdom, with one ruler—Satan (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2 Cor. 4:4). Following Satan’s lead, the human rulers of this world are generally hostile to Christ (Ps. 2:2; Acts 4:26). The long rebellion of the world kingdom will end with the victorious return of the Lord Jesus Christ to defeat His enemies and establish His messianic kingdom (Isa. 2:2, 3; Dan. 2:44; 7:13, 14, 18, 22, 27; Luke 1:31-33). This kingdom also belongs to God the Father (see notes on 1 Cor. 15:24).

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.


Revelation 11:15 (KJV) {HERE IS YOUR SEVENTH TRUMPET OF GOD.}
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[VCO]

The 70th week prophecy is a continuous prophey .You cannot count to 1-69 week jump a couple 1000years and end the 70th week in this time the bible does not support that theory .

t t t
Matthew 19:26 (ASV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And Jesus looking upon them said to them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Daniel 9:21-22 (ASV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] yea, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And he instructed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee wisdom and understanding.

Daniel 9:24-27 (ASV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:6-7 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

Revelation 6:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people (Israel) and for your holy city (Jerusalem). The historical fulfillment of the first part of the prophecy shows that the weeks are weeks of years. Thus seventy weeks equal 490 years. We will see that the seventy weeks are divided into seven weeks plus sixty-two weeks, and then, after a time gap, one final week. At the end of these seventy weeks, the following six things will happen:

To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins. While this may refer in a general sense to all Israel's sinful ways, it has special reference to the nation's rejection of the Messiah. At the Second Advent of Christ, a remnant will turn to Him in faith and the nation's transgression and sins will be forgiven.

To make reconciliation for iniquity. The basis for reconciliation was laid at Calvary, but this refers to the time, still future, when the believing portion of the nation of Israel will come into the benefit and enjoyment of the finished work of Christ.

To bring in everlasting righteousness. This, too, points forward to the Second Advent and the Millennium, when the King will reign in righteousness. It is everlasting righteousness in the sense that it will continue on into the eternal state.
To seal up vision and prophecy. The main body of OT prophecy centers on the glorious Return of Christ to earth, and His subsequent kingdom. Therefore, the bulk of prophecies will be fulfilled at the end of the seventy weeks.
\
And to anoint the Most Holy Place. At the beginning of the thousand-year reign, the temple described in Ezekiel 40-44 will be anointed or consecrated in Jerusalem. The glory will return in the Person of the Lord (Ezek. 43:1-5).

Dan. 9:25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. This was the decree of Artaxerxes in 445 b.c. (Neh. 2:1-8).

Until Messiah the Prince. This refers not merely to the First Advent of Christ, but more particularly to His death (see v. 26a).\

There shall be seven weeks (forty-nine years) and sixty-two weeks (434 years). The sixty-nine weeks are divided into two periods, seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.

The city shall be built again, with plaza and moat, even in troublesome times. Jerusalem would be rebuilt (during the first seven weeks) with public square and protective channel, but not without opposition and turmoil.
Dan. 9:26 Then after the sixty-two weeks—that is, after the sixty-two week portion of time, which is really at the end of the sixty-ninth week,

The Messiah shall be cut off. Here we have an unmistakable reference to the Savior's death on the cross. A century ago in his book The Coming Prince, Sir Robert Anderson gave detailed calculations of the sixty-nine weeks, using "prophetic years," allowing for leap years, errors in the calendar, the change from b.c. to a.d., etc., and figured that the sixty-nine weeks ended on the very day of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem, five days before his death.

But not for Himself, or literally and have nothing. This may mean that He had received nothing from the nation of Israel, to which He had come. Or it may mean that He died without apparent posterity (Isa. 53:8). Or it may be a general statement of His utter poverty; He left nothing but the clothes that He wore.

And the people of the prince who is to come. This prince who is to come is the head of the revived Roman Empire, identified by some as the Antichrist. He will come to power during the Tribulation. His people, of course, are the Romans.
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The Romans, under Titus, destroyed Jerusalem and its magnificent gold-trimmed white marble temple in a.d. 70.

The end of it shall be with a flood. The city was leveled as if by a flood. Not one stone of the temple, for instance, was left on another. Titus forbade his soldiers to put Herod's temple to the torch, but in order to get the gold they disobeyed, thus melting down the gold. To retrieve the melted gold successfully from between the stones they had to pry loose the great stones, thus fulfilling Christ's words in Matthew 24:1, 2, as well as Daniel's prophecy.

And till the end of the war desolations are determined. From that time on, the history of the city would be one of war and destruction. The end here means the end of the times of the Gentiles.

Dan. 9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture. It is never mentioned specifically in the OT; it was a secret hidden in God from the foundation of the world but revealed by the apostles and prophets of the NT period. However, the principle of a gap is nicely illustrated by our Lord in the synagogue at Nazareth (Luke 4:18, 19). Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1, 2a but cut it short at "the acceptable year of the Lord" (His First Advent), and left off the judgment of His Second Advent: "and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isa. 61:2b). In between was to occur the whole Church Age.

Then he (the Roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many (the unbelieving majority of the nation of Israel) for one week (the seven-year Tribulation Period). It may be a friendship treaty, a non-aggression treaty, or a guarantee of military assistance against any nation attacking Israel.

But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. The Roman prince will turn hostile toward Israel, forbidding further sacrifices and offerings to Jehovah.

And on the wing of abominations. We learn from Matthew 24:15 that he will set up an abominable idolatrous image in the temple and presumably he will command that it be worshiped. Some think that wing here refers to a wing of the temple.
Shall be one who makes desolate. He will persecute and destroy those who refuse to worship the image.

Even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate. Terrible persecution of the Jews will continue for the last half of the seventieth week, a period known as the Great Tribulation. Then the Roman prince, "the one who makes desolate," will himself be destroyed, as decreed by God, by being cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

Dan. 9:24. Daniel was first informed that God’s program would be consummated in 70 “sevens.” Since Daniel had been thinking of God’s program in terms of years (v. 1; cf. Jer. 25:11-12; 2 Chron. 36:21), it would be most natural for him to understand these “sevens” as years. Whereas people today think in units of tens (e.g., decades), Daniel’s people thought in terms of sevens (heptads). Seven days are in one week. Every seventh year was a sabbath rest year (Lev. 25:1-7). Seven “sevens” brought them to the Year of Jubilee (Lev. 25:8-12). Seventy “sevens,” then, is a span of 490 years. . . .

This span of time was decreed for Daniel’s people (cf. “your people” in Dan. 10:14; 11:14) and the Holy City (cf. 9:16, 24). This prophecy, then, is concerned not with world history or church history, but with the history of Israel and the city of Jerusalem. By the time these 490 years run their course, God will have completed six things for Israel. The first three have to do with sin, and the second three with the kingdom. The basis for the first three was provided in the work of Christ on the cross, but all six will be realized by Israel at the Second Advent of Christ.

1. At the end of the 490 years God will finish the transgression of Israel.
. . .
2. God will put an end to sin.
. . .
3. God will atone for wickedness.
. . .
4. The second three accomplishments deal with positive aspects of God’s program. Being satisfied by the death of Christ, God will bring in everlasting righteousness.
. . .
5. God will seal up vision and prophecy.
. . .
6. God will anoint the Most Holy. This may refer to the dedication of the most holy place in the millennial temple, described in Ezekiel 41-46. Or it may refer not to a holy place, but to the Holy One, Christ. If so, this speaks of the enthronement of Christ, “the Anointed One” (Dan. 7:25-27) as King of kings and Lord of lords in the Millennium.

These six accomplishments, then, anticipate the establishment of Israel’s covenanted millennial kingdom under the authority of her promised King. The six summarize God’s whole program to bring the nation Israel the blessings He promised through His covenants (Gen. 15:18-21; 2 Sam. 7:16; Jer. 31:31-34).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

Version:1.0StartHTML:000000180EndHTML:000002487StartFragment:000000180EndFragment:000002487StartSelection:000000180EndSelection:000002487SourceURL:about:blankIn those 490 years, Israel had violated exactly seventy sabbatic years; so they would go into captivity for seventy years. "To fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years" (2Chron. 36:21).

1 week = 7 years70 weeks = 490 years70 weeks divided into 3 periods:7 weeks -- 62 weeks -- 1 week
Now Daniel was puzzled as to how the end of the seventy years of captivity would fit into the long period of Gentile world dominion which the visions in chapters 7 and 8 had so clearly indicated. He obviously thought that at the end of the seventy years his people would be returned to the land, the promised Messiah would come, and the Kingdom which had been promised to David would be established. How could both be true? It appeared to him, I am sure, to be an irreconcilable situation created by these seemingly contradictory prophecies.

The Seventy Weeks, or the seventy sevens, answer two questions. Israel's kingdom will not come immediately. The seventy sevens must run their course. These seventy sevens fit into the Times of the Gentiles and run concurrently with them. They are broken up to fit into gentile times. The word for determined literally means "cutting off." These seventy sevens are to be cut off, as the following verses will indicate. The seventy sevens for Israel and the Times of the Gentiles will both come to an end at the same time, that is, at the second coming of Christ. This is important to know for the correct understanding of the prophecy.

Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.

 

[timberdoodle]

t t t
Matthew 19:26 (ASV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And Jesus looking upon them said to them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Daniel 9:21-22 (ASV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] yea, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And he instructed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee wisdom and understanding.

Daniel 9:24-27 (ASV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:6-7 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

Revelation 6:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

Good post

Timber

 

[Isdaniel]

t t t
Matthew 19:26 (ASV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And Jesus looking upon them said to them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Daniel 9:21-22 (ASV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] yea, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And he instructed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee wisdom and understanding.

Daniel 9:24-27 (ASV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:6-7 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

Revelation 6:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

WHer did you get this teaching from ?

 

[Isdaniel]

daniel 9
The most Holy is Jesus Christ

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[nathan3]

Daniel 12: 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

This thread went far away from the chapter covered here. I don't think its all a good idea really, to go into things for this thread. Better to stick to just this chapter.And get scriptures that document farther or not, whats already stated in the video from the Bible.


Everything else , if there is no understanding of them, is ministering more questions, then giving answers.