Revisiting The Attributes of God
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M
Is Sheol really Hell? Where did you study this? I have always understood that Hell is total separation from God.
BTW Sac, your description of the trinity is the best explanation on this subject I have heard to date. It's easy to understand even for a child and it's extremely visual.
I would seriously love to dig deep into a study of God's word but when you reference/cross reference and go into Hebrew/Greek etc you start to lose me. I am still in the nursery regards my understanding of God.
BTW Sac, your description of the trinity is the best explanation on this subject I have heard to date. It's easy to understand even for a child and it's extremely visual.
I would seriously love to dig deep into a study of God's word but when you reference/cross reference and go into Hebrew/Greek etc you start to lose me. I am still in the nursery regards my understanding of God.
When i did the study on Psalm 139:8 i referenced quite a few commentaries, dictionaries, study Bibles and even questioned pastors (which included my dad) on this particular verse.
In all the study and questioning of this verse it basically came down to the definition of "omnipresent". God is everywhere in His presence. If hell was a complete total seperation from God and He was not in any way present in hell then He could not be omnipresent. So how can God having attributes like love, compassion, grace, mercy ect be present in hell? Simple. In a way we do not understand He withholds these attributes from those in hell and only gives His attributes of justice, wrath and such to those in hell. God is still present but since He withhold certain attributes it "seems like" He is not there. Those in hell do not experience the "good" attributes of God they only experience His complete wrath. I do not wish hell on anyone and neither does God but because of sin it has to be so.
I will try to do better on referencing where certain things come from so you can better study. I dont want to "lose" anyone in this study so if i dont reference something then let me know so i can post the reference. Much of this is "rewording" certain writings to make it easier to understand. It is not a "changing" of meaning but making it easier to understand. Kind of like all the different Bible translations. They might change certain words but the content is still the same.
Sheol from the New Geneva Study Bible on Psalm 139:8 "His presence reaches even to "hell", here a translation of the Hebrew Sheol". The NKJV translates Sheol to the word hell.
Sheol..The Dictionary of Theological terms. "Biblical term for the underworld destination of the souls of those who die. It is often translated "grave" "pit", or "hell". It bacame associated with the Greek "Hades" and the notion of judgement".
In all the study and questioning of this verse it basically came down to the definition of "omnipresent". God is everywhere in His presence. If hell was a complete total seperation from God and He was not in any way present in hell then He could not be omnipresent. So how can God having attributes like love, compassion, grace, mercy ect be present in hell? Simple. In a way we do not understand He withholds these attributes from those in hell and only gives His attributes of justice, wrath and such to those in hell. God is still present but since He withhold certain attributes it "seems like" He is not there. Those in hell do not experience the "good" attributes of God they only experience His complete wrath. I do not wish hell on anyone and neither does God but because of sin it has to be so.
I will try to do better on referencing where certain things come from so you can better study. I dont want to "lose" anyone in this study so if i dont reference something then let me know so i can post the reference. Much of this is "rewording" certain writings to make it easier to understand. It is not a "changing" of meaning but making it easier to understand. Kind of like all the different Bible translations. They might change certain words but the content is still the same.
Sheol from the New Geneva Study Bible on Psalm 139:8 "His presence reaches even to "hell", here a translation of the Hebrew Sheol". The NKJV translates Sheol to the word hell.
Sheol..The Dictionary of Theological terms. "Biblical term for the underworld destination of the souls of those who die. It is often translated "grave" "pit", or "hell". It bacame associated with the Greek "Hades" and the notion of judgement".
The seven spirits of God are mentioned in Isaiah 11:2, Rev 1:4. 3:1, 4:5 and 5:6. There is no definative answer to what they truely mean. There are three main "interpretations" as to their meaning but i will not get into that here. Yes they are attributes of God but in these verses they are not defined as attributes. In these verses the "seven spirits" have a different meaning and since i have not studied what the meaning might be i will not be using these verses as part of the study of the attributes of God.
Yes i know you have. As noticed i am not going thru this fast so please ask questions so we can look at areas deeper if needed. I dont know it all and dont claim to know it all but i love doing research which is one reason a truly love this study of the attributes. I will also post more Scripture on each so you can see where these are referenced in the Bible.
M
I would love to continue this study but there does seem to be a lack of interest on these forums for genuine study - without arguments. The problem with going it alone is that you would just be teaching me - I don't really have anything of value to add given all the study you have already done on this subject you have a far deeper knowledge than I do.
By all means continue with this if you want to and list the attributes with your findings - I will be reading it for sure and maybe someone else will also chip-in from time to time.
By all means continue with this if you want to and list the attributes with your findings - I will be reading it for sure and maybe someone else will also chip-in from time to time.
Omniscience
Psalm 139 is great for the study of Gods omnipresence and omniscience.
God as knowing all things, all events and all circumstances in a way that is perfect and immediate. (Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms)
"Nothing in all creation is hidden from Gods sight everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account". Hebrews 4:13
God knows every human thought both good and bad. 1 Chronicles 28:9 1 Corinthians 3:20. 1 John 3:20
The study of both Gods omnipresence and omniscience should make us think about everything we do and think. We cannot hide ourselves or our thoughts from God. God knows the thoughts and actions of each and every person in a way as if we were the only person.
Psalm 139 is great for the study of Gods omnipresence and omniscience.
God as knowing all things, all events and all circumstances in a way that is perfect and immediate. (Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms)
"Nothing in all creation is hidden from Gods sight everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account". Hebrews 4:13
God knows every human thought both good and bad. 1 Chronicles 28:9 1 Corinthians 3:20. 1 John 3:20
The study of both Gods omnipresence and omniscience should make us think about everything we do and think. We cannot hide ourselves or our thoughts from God. God knows the thoughts and actions of each and every person in a way as if we were the only person.
M
Thank you for quoting these verses. I think the Amos one is an error lol.
It's interesting that Jeremiah acknowledges the futility of trying to hide from God yet there at the beginning in Genesis it was instinctive of Adam and Eve to try to hide from God when the knew they has sinned against Him, they must have not understood God's attributes or at the very least His omnipresence.
It's interesting that Jeremiah acknowledges the futility of trying to hide from God yet there at the beginning in Genesis it was instinctive of Adam and Eve to try to hide from God when the knew they has sinned against Him, they must have not understood God's attributes or at the very least His omnipresence.
M
There is no better reason to "tow the line" than to be aware God is always watching, always near, knowing our every word and worse every thought. I wonder how many times a day we have unholy thoughts. If you think about it...at work and elsewhere, even here on CC when confronted with your average troll. Do we REALLY pray for them of does it just look good for the benefit of others when we say we will? It is very difficult to be a Christian in my workplace especially when all around me they are secular. Even in my home I am often provoked by 2 of my 3 sons who see me as fair game. I have to wonder what it is that scares them so much or makes them so angry that they cannot resist the temptation to ridicule. Still if we just resisted the temptation to retaliate knowing God is present all the while.
REV. 5:6.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are
the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
ZEK. 4:10.
For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, ]and shall see
the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD,
which run to and fro through the whole earth.
Angels
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are
the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
ZEK. 4:10.
For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, ]and shall see
the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD,
which run to and fro through the whole earth.
Angels
MPW,
Jesus' own brothers and others were constantly ridiculing Him, is no less asked or required of us?
yes dear one, it can be a long, lonely, road, one filled with so many road blocks, but, He has
decided that this will be one way of refining us thus showing us where our Love and Faith and Trust
in Him abides...
one thing that is certain, there is no place in this world where we are not given amply opportunity
to 'practice
our Faith...
Jesus' own brothers and others were constantly ridiculing Him, is no less asked or required of us?
yes dear one, it can be a long, lonely, road, one filled with so many road blocks, but, He has
decided that this will be one way of refining us thus showing us where our Love and Faith and Trust
in Him abides...
one thing that is certain, there is no place in this world where we are not given amply opportunity
to 'practice
our Faith...
God knows our needs (Matt 6:8)
God knows our hearts (1 Sam 16:7 Jer 17:10)
God knows the ways of men (Deut 2:7. Job 23:10 Job 24:23)
God knows the days of our lives (Psalm 37:18)
God knows us more intimately than we know ourselves (Psalm 139:1-4)
Because of the omniscience of God there is nothing that "surprises" Him. God never says "I didnt see that coming".
God knows our hearts (1 Sam 16:7 Jer 17:10)
God knows the ways of men (Deut 2:7. Job 23:10 Job 24:23)
God knows the days of our lives (Psalm 37:18)
God knows us more intimately than we know ourselves (Psalm 139:1-4)
Because of the omniscience of God there is nothing that "surprises" Him. God never says "I didnt see that coming".
M
1. If God does indeed know our needs then surely asking for something in prayer is simply God's wish for us to go before Him. God just WANTS that relationship with us - He doesn't need it nor does He need us to ask Him for stuff for He already knows. Agreed?
4. This is a pretty scary truth - He knows the day He will take us...but what if someone commits murder, surely it isn't God determining the days of our lives in those cases? Now we could go really deep with this...could God then perform a miracle to keep someone alive? Would He allow that person to die if His plan for than person's life wasn't fulfilled? What about aborted babies? Why would God start something He knows was not going to be brought to fruition?
4. This is a pretty scary truth - He knows the day He will take us...but what if someone commits murder, surely it isn't God determining the days of our lives in those cases? Now we could go really deep with this...could God then perform a miracle to keep someone alive? Would He allow that person to die if His plan for than person's life wasn't fulfilled? What about aborted babies? Why would God start something He knows was not going to be brought to fruition?
1. Agreed. God does not "need" us to pray to Him but He "desires" us to pray so we can have that relationship with Him.
4. This is a tricky one. It is tricky because if explained improperly it can make God into an evil tyrant. I will come back to this as i am pressed for time at the moment and need to pray as to the best way to explain this. It isnt a simple answer and not one to be taken lightly. I hope you understand.
4. This is a tricky one. It is tricky because if explained improperly it can make God into an evil tyrant. I will come back to this as i am pressed for time at the moment and need to pray as to the best way to explain this. It isnt a simple answer and not one to be taken lightly. I hope you understand.