Revisiting the Dual Natures of Christ

[nowyouseem033]

Context: I want to simply put forth a thread which encourages discussion, in particular, about the dual natures of Christ. What scripture is there to support this? Theologically known as duophysiticism or commonly known as the Hypostatic Union. My concern is not so much is Christ fully man and fully God which i believe but more or less:

Does Christ posses a human nature and a divine nature right now?
Couldn't Christ have a divinely human nature (one nature) rather than one nature human and the other divine (two natures)?

I ask this because it seems to me the view that Christ has two natures currently, puts Christ at odds with himself. For instance which does Christ act or operate from? his human nature or divine? and if so what determines him to favor one or the other? If he favors operating from his divine nature rather than his human nature then doesn't that have potential to be at odds within himself?

No pressure and certainly not for the faint hearted. You will be tested for your replies

 

[88]

He is the Word made flesh...Now in heaven He is the Son---fully man & fully God..--- I would suppose He operates from both without conflict...reminds me of the question in Bible School--- was it " possible" for Jesus to sin....--- don't get a headache over this post...Grace and Peace

 

[PeterJens]

This is a good question, which over my life I have touched on and refined.

The nature of the universe is Gods creation. The core of who God is, is his nature or approach
to everything. One accusation that could be raised is that God is only God because of His power
and attributes. Without these attributes He would be failed just like us.

So Jesus is God spoken out into human form without the awe, splendour and power of the King.
Yet though 100% human, he overcame, had communion with the Father and walked in His will.

Jesus defined himself not the same as the Father in knowledge or attributes, yet they were one.

What brings fear to my soul, is how awesome this subject is, and who are we to grasp such a
wonder.

Jesus removes so much about the impossibility of walking in purity and holiness.
We daily have so many needs, they often overwhelm us to the extent we take our eyes off
the wonder of the what Jesus did through the cross, of a heart so humble and caring, he took
the worst and forgave them.

It is why something like the Turin shroud confounds everyone. I am not catholic or like relics
or any religious superstition, but this testifies to the suffering Christ under went. The Lord does
not listen to mans ways or wisdom, but cuts across it all, because He himself has defined it.

The issues of what is the soul of man and life, hinges on one word, love.
And Christ echoes to this same word. Not motherly, warm, protecting, safe love,
but wild, blood soaked, seeing evil and looking it is the eye, and saying, I forgive you as insanely
you are ripped apart by lions or horses or whatever insane device evil men have devised to keep
themselves in power.

Jesus is victory over sin and death, our true only hope, the light in the darkness.

 

[nowyouseem033]

This is a good question, which over my life I have touched on and refined.

The nature of the universe is Gods creation. The core of who God is, is his nature or approach
to everything. One accusation that could be raised is that God is only God because of His power
and attributes. Without these attributes He would be failed just like us.

So Jesus is God spoken out into human form without the awe, splendour and power of the King.
Yet though 100% human, he overcame, had communion with the Father and walked in His will.

Jesus defined himself not the same as the Father in knowledge or attributes, yet they were one.

What brings fear to my soul, is how awesome this subject is, and who are we to grasp such a
wonder.

Jesus removes so much about the impossibility of walking in purity and holiness.
We daily have so many needs, they often overwhelm us to the extent we take our eyes off
the wonder of the what Jesus did through the cross, of a heart so humble and caring, he took
the worst and forgave them.

It is why something like the Turin shroud confounds everyone. I am not catholic or like relics
or any religious superstition, but this testifies to the suffering Christ under went. The Lord does
not listen to mans ways or wisdom, but cuts across it all, because He himself has defined it.

The issues of what is the soul of man and life, hinges on one word, love.
And Christ echoes to this same word. Not motherly, warm, protecting, safe love,
but wild, blood soaked, seeing evil and looking it is the eye, and saying, I forgive you as insanely
you are ripped apart by lions or horses or whatever insane device evil men have devised to keep
themselves in power.

Jesus is victory over sin and death, our true only hope, the light in the darkness.

Amen so its okay to believe that Christ has one nature then?

 

[PeterJens]

Amen so its okay to believe that Christ has one nature then?

In my view, that is the gospel.

The language of natures, tends to be around the term sinful nature.

I have found this term difficult to define.
In my view God is saying our lack of communion with Him leads us to sin.

In philosophy it is obvious that when you change ones reference points, the basis upon
which you build ones morality, once this is centred on self, all ones actions become self
justifying, so sin and evil become a means to an end.

So without God as our reference point we will become corrupted and sinful, lost is self
justification of our behaviour, while drifting off into finally death.

To add to this view, our hearts are born with love, love of our parents, no matter their
faults. We hide this love, and create massive emotional conflicts which also bring sin into
our lives which we justify to ourselves.

So the term sinful nature gets used to describe these states.

In theology though sinful nature was linked with the state of being human, ie if God became
human he became something other than God.

But this proposition does not fit the above realities.

It is why I would agree Christ has one nature.

 

[John146]

Context: I want to simply put forth a thread which encourages discussion, in particular, about the dual natures of Christ. What scripture is there to support this? Theologically known as duophysiticism or commonly known as the Hypostatic Union. My concern is not so much is Christ fully man and fully God which i believe but more or less:

Does Christ posses a human nature and a divine nature right now?
Couldn't Christ have a divinely human nature (one nature) rather than one nature human and the other divine (two natures)?

I ask this because it seems to me the view that Christ has two natures currently, puts Christ at odds with himself. For instance which does Christ act or operate from? his human nature or divine? and if so what determines him to favor one or the other? If he favors operating from his divine nature rather than his human nature then doesn't that have potential to be at odds within himself?

No pressure and certainly not for the faint hearted. You will be tested for your replies

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews tells us that when God became flesh and dwelt among us He learned what it was like to be in a body of flesh and suffer the temptations, hurts and pains. And now He is better able to understand and help us in our temptations.

Hebrews 2:18, For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

 

[nowyouseem033]

In my view, that is the gospel.

The language of natures, tends to be around the term sinful nature.

I have found this term difficult to define.
In my view God is saying our lack of communion with Him leads us to sin.

In philosophy it is obvious that when you change ones reference points, the basis upon
which you build ones morality, once this is centred on self, all ones actions become self
justifying, so sin and evil become a means to an end.

So without God as our reference point we will become corrupted and sinful, lost is self
justification of our behaviour, while drifting off into finally death.

To add to this view, our hearts are born with love, love of our parents, no matter their
faults. We hide this love, and create massive emotional conflicts which also bring sin into
our lives which we justify to ourselves.

So the term sinful nature gets used to describe these states.

In theology though sinful nature was linked with the state of being human, ie if God became
human he became something other than God.

But this proposition does not fit the above realities.

It is why I would agree Christ has one nature.

One nature as in both divine and human? Would you say this one nature (divinely human) was always with Christ even before time began?

 

[nowyouseem033]

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews tells us that when God became flesh and dwelt among us He learned what it was like to be in a body of flesh and suffer the temptations, hurts and pains. And now He is better able to understand and help us in our temptations.

Hebrews 2:18, For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

So does that mean Christ has two natures or one? I understand whats being said but imply that Christ experienced what it meant to be human through human experiences and yet without sinning, something he did not experience before coming to earth. So can we say then that Christ had one nature in heaven (a divinely human nature) but what he didnt have was the experience of that one divinely human nature, which took place when he came to earth?

 

[FreeNChrist]

From Theopedia;

"Christ's humanity was not a mere fleshly shell that God rented and used for a temporary amount of time. God did not just come to live in flesh as a man, but the 'Word became flesh' (John 1:14). God incorporated human nature into His eternal being. In the incarnation humanity has been permanently incorporated into the Godhead. God is now a man in addition to being God. At the virgin conception God acquired an identity He would retain for the rest of eternity. His human existence is both authentic and permanent. Jesus' humanity is not something that can be discarded or dissolved back into the Godhead, but He will always and forever exist in heaven as a glorified man, albeit God at the same time." Upon his ascension, Jesus was not deified, but rather was glorified.

 

[John146]

So does that mean Christ has two natures or one? I understand whats being said but imply that Christ experienced what it meant to be human through human experiences and yet without sinning, something he did not experience before coming to earth. So can we say then that Christ had one nature in heaven (a divinely human nature) but what he didnt have was the experience of that one divinely human nature, which took place when he came to earth?

I believe that's pretty accurate. He was the Word before He moved into that body of flesh prepared for Him and then He became the only begotten Son of God. To think that for 4,000 or so years God had little understanding of what it was like to be a man in the flesh with all its' temptations and sufferings. Job said it well:

Job 9
30 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
31 Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:

Now that the Word has become flesh, we have a daysman between us, a mediator that can bring God and man together. Oh, the wonderful works of God.

 

[notmyown]

when Christ ascended, He was glorified, just as we will be right? i mean, is that right?

the Word became flesh. in the Revelation 1, John saw a man.
and Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain

i think still fully God, fully man.

 

[John146]

when Christ ascended, He was glorified, just as we will be right? i mean, is that right?

the Word became flesh. in the Revelation 1, John saw a man.
and Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain

i think still fully God, fully man.

Yes, our final destination is to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, that is receiving our glorified redemptive bodies, other wise known as the adoption. We will bare the image of Jesus Christ.

 

[notmyown]

Yes, our final destination is to be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, that is receiving our glorified redemptive bodies, other wise known as the adoption. We will bare the image of Jesus Christ.

that's gonna be a Great Day

(i think the adoption applies right now, though)

 

[John146]

that's gonna be a Great Day

(i think the adoption applies right now, though)

Romans 8:23, And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Hungry]

Context: I want to simply put forth a thread which encourages discussion, in particular, about the dual natures of Christ. What scripture is there to support this? Theologically known as duophysiticism or commonly known as the Hypostatic Union. My concern is not so much is Christ fully man and fully God which i believe but more or less:

Does Christ posses a human nature and a divine nature right now?
Couldn't Christ have a divinely human nature (one nature) rather than one nature human and the other divine (two natures)?

I ask this because it seems to me the view that Christ has two natures currently, puts Christ at odds with himself. For instance which does Christ act or operate from? his human nature or divine? and if so what determines him to favor one or the other? If he favors operating from his divine nature rather than his human nature then doesn't that have potential to be at odds within himself?

No pressure and certainly not for the faint hearted. You will be tested for your replies

Without understanding what man is, who God is, the difference between spirit and Spirit and who the Son is you are going to get a very superficial understanding of the complexity of it all. What is on our computer screen is the visual representation of computer code. People who have studied this code and can read the language can see how a site like this is developed. Clicking here brings you there, and so on. Trying to understand how God became flesh, who He was and now is, is not going to be possible if we can't read the language. Most of us will ever only see what is visible and speculate on the unseen. That's ok! You don't need to be a programmer to use a computer. If however you want to understand the inner workings then you have to take the time to learn the language.

 

[stonesoffire]

I've often wondered if there was some kind of transformation at Jesus's baptism. The scripture says He raised straightway out of the water. That has to mean something more than just He came out. Maybe this was a time of death to any earthly desires He might of had? A place where He entered fully into the will of Father for His life? A time where His soul became deity too?

Then the resurrection had more to do with His body changing to immortal? Just my musings.

Personally, I think He was always more deity than man. That His Spirit was greater than His human personality. It had to have been to be sinless.

Its just how I see Him. Born of a Virgin...miraculous. His very DNA of God. And the One who created all things.

Its Love Personified! God Himself came down to rescue His own creation from all that was corrupting what He had made perfect.

He is greater than any doctrine that we might try to apply to Him.

And am sure there will be those who will disagree. But, it's my opinion only. It's how I see Him.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

People often use the phrase "Jesus is 100% man and also 100% God" but this saying is not found written in the words of God.

People do not consider what it means to have the nature of man as it pertains to the spirit that is at work in the world and also in all of mankind who are firstborn with a sin nature because of Adams disobedience and sin.

This is why Jesus had no earthy father and was not conceived by the fleshy seed but by the Holy Spirit, as Mary conceived by the Spirit.

So to say Christ was 100% man in spirit would be in error, because the spirit working in the world and in all of mankind strives against the Spirit of God. One way to look at this is ask yourself, is it possible for God to sin? When you look to the words of God you will see it was not possible for Christ to sin no more than for God to lie or to sin, for in them is no sin. So though the Word (seed) of God was made flesh in Jesus, God's Word is not of the same spirit of the world, which spirit is also in all of mankind who are firstborn of the flesh.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

[FreeNChrist]

People often use the phrase "Jesus is 100% man and also 100% God" but this saying is not found written in the words of God.

People do not consider what it means to have the nature of man as it pertains to the spirit that is at work in the world and also in all of mankind who are firstborn with a sin nature because of Adams disobedience and sin.

This is why Jesus had no earthy father and was not conceived by the fleshy seed but by the Holy Spirit, as Mary conceived by the Spirit.

So to say Christ was 100% man in spirit would be in error, because the spirit working in the world and in all of mankind strives against the Spirit of God. One way to look at this is ask yourself, is it possible for God to sin? When you look to the words of God you will see it was not possible for Christ to sin no more than for God to lie or to sin, for in them is no sin. So though the Word (seed) of God was made flesh in Jesus, God's Word is not of the same spirit of the world, which spirit is also in all of mankind who are firstborn of the flesh.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus had a human spirit as do all humans. There are three divine unions on which Christianity rests; the union of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the one Godhead, the union of deity and humanity in Jesus Christ, and the union of the Spirit of Christ and the spirit of each Christian.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think we have to identify what the term "human" nature means.

for mankind since the fall. Human nature was self willed. and at odds with God. so in this context, Yes, Jesus human nature would be opposed to his divine nature.

However. In Jesus cse this is not so. he was born as Adam was created, With a nature that tended to be in line with Gods. He was dependent and lined up with Gods will. they were not apposed. It was not until Adam fell his nature turned.

so Jesus nature (human) would be aligned with his nature (God) they would not be apposed.

as a human however, he can be our high priest, as he was tempted in all ways as we are. yet without sin, His nature (god) could not be tempted to sin, so it could not relate to us.

this may be wordy, If anyone has a question or can not understand please ask.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus had a human spirit as do all humans.

As usual you struggle to hear what it is I am saying. The spirit I am talking about is the spirit that entered into man and into the world because of sin. This spirit is of the Devil, and is not of God's Holy Spirit. The spirit of the flesh strives against God's Spirit and they are contrary to one another.

Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

James 4:5
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.