Romans 8:1-2, is conditional

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#61
Well.... sorry for accusing you of being a JW... but much of what you have stated seems to fit that belief system.

Thanks for stopping in to enlighten us about faith, though.

I don't see a lot of willingness to learn, on your part... simply a desire to expound your beliefs.

I HAVE seen quite a few healings.. of actual, real diseases, like colon cancer, etc.... These healings were a direct result of many believers taking it to the Father in prayer. I have also seen deaths of young people after many, many believers took it to the Father in prayer.

In other words, in my direct observation, and experience, God does not always heal. Many times, for reasons unknown to us, God says "no".

My response is NOT to question the "faith" of the ones praying for healing, but to trust that our loving Father knows us, and gives us what is best, according to His will.

and, again, why was the apostle Paul not healed of his affliction?
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, ...

I'm sure you would agree that most Christians are ignorant of God's ways and of His word.
I can tell you first hand that most on this sight reject simple truths, as you see me doing. But that is not the truth.
I am one of a few who have put just about all my beliefs and doctrines on trial, without any bias or leanings, to find and know the truth. I have sought God sincerely, with a pure heart to know the truth. I have publicly apologized for any errors on my part and changed what I believed on the spot, right then and there. I don't hold my doctrines dear to me, as most on this forum do. I hold the truth dear, and I form my doctrine on what God has shown me through His Spirit. I cannot say the same about most here on CC.
I do not regard anyone's teachings until I see it lining up with the word of God according to my very limited knowledge and understanding of His word and how His kingdom operates.
As the word of God says, God's people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge because they have rejected knowledge. Which translates to ignorance.
Another biggie is that most THINK they believe, or have faith, but they don't.
Most hope or wish God will heal them, but it is not faith.
Another is that most don't know what the will of God is for their healing.
If you don't know what the will of God concerning your healing, then you CANNOT have faith for it.
If you are praying, "lord, if it be your will...", forget it, nothing will happen. There is absolutely NO faith in that prayer.
Another is that most don't know how faith works.
Most want God to heal them. They don't know that God has already done so when they prayed. Most are still waiting for Him to do it because they still feel the same.
They are waiting for God to do the work BEFORE they believe it is done. Faith believes BECAUSE it is written, not because you FEEL better. If you feel better first, then what do you have to believe for. You are putting the cart before the horse.
Hope thinks it will be done some day in the future, faith thinks it's done NOW.
Another is that most don't believe what is written, AS IT IS WRITTEN.
Another is that most don't know that the word of God spoken in faith or the word of faith IS the power of God.
Another is that most don't know that you have to see it and have it BEFORE you actually see it, feel it, or have it.
Another biggie is that most don't know that a Christian has to, in most cases, repent of their sins, IN ORDER TO BE HEALED.
Most think forgiveness is automatic. If it was, then God wouldn't have told us to repent and confess our sins SO THAT WE MIGHT BE FORGIVEN of our sins and CLEANSED of all unrighteousness. If it were automatic, we wouldn't have to confess our sins to be forgiven of them.
Another is that most don't know to send the word of God for their healing as God did.
Not only is the word of God the power of God, but the word of God is what does the healing or deliverance. Therefore, we must send God's word that deals with healing.
Most don't know that their sickness is caused by a demonic spirit, and sometimes needs to be removed or cast out before they can be healed. But in most cases the spirit is there BECAUSE OF the person's sin or that of their parents, and cannot be removed until they are forgiven of their sin that caused it to be there in the first place.

God does not say, no, to His children who prayed in faith, standing on His word.
He just doesn't hear the prayer of the sinner.
If you know that He hears you, then you would know that you have the petition you requested.
ALL of God's promises in Christ Jesus ARE YEAH AND AMEN.
Do you see a, no, in there anywhere?

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Doesn't the word of God say, "EVERYONE" that asks, receives, and to them who ask, that the thing they ask for SHALL be given to them? If you believe what is written and put your faith in God doing just that, it will be done for you. God guarantees it. And neither can He lie. The problem is, most don't believe it.
Is healing a good thing or an evil thing?
Let me ask you this.
Is sickness a good thing or and evil thing?
So if you think healing is a good thing, then the word of God says that God wants to and will give you the good things you ask for. But Mk 11:24 says to believe you have received the thing you asked for WHEN you prayed, not after it manifests.

As for Paul's infirmity of the flesh, dare I say he too was ignorant of what to do about it.
And no, God did not tell him, no, suffer or put up with it.
What God did was give him the answer to His question.
The word of God says that we are saved by the grace of God through faith because we cannot do it ourselves. In and of ourselves, we are not righteous enough, nor do we have the power or ability to give ourselves eternal life or to go to heaven.
But, by the grace, through His Spirit, we are righteous enough, because of His righteousness in us, and we have eternal life, because we have His life in us, and so on. All because of the sufficiency of His grace to do so.
So if God's grace was sufficient for us to get saved, to have eternal life, through faith, then God's grace was sufficient enough for Him to deliver and heal Paul from the spirit causing the infirmity of the flesh.
Jesus never sent out His disciples telling them to ask God to cast out spirits. He told them to do it in His name. For they came back saying that all the spirits were subject to them through His name.
Paul was to do the same, and the grace of God would have been sufficient enough to take care of Paul's weakness or inability to remove the messenger of satan.
In other words, in James 4:7, God tell us to resist the devil with His word. Or to put it bluntly. You cast the thing out with my word.



As for my learning, I must first see something worth learning before I would consider it. And frankly, I get far more from the Spirit of God than I do from anyone on this forum. But as I mentioned in post 52, I did see something that I didn't see before, and it was because of what was written by reneweddaybyday.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
2,947
113
#62
Can you say wall of texts, and in KJV?

No, KJV is totally off in this OP. And in many other things. Sorry, your scholars are wrong. My suggestion is to learn Greek, then you will see how many times the KJV is just wrong, let alone the scribal errors and additions over the centuries.

Anyway, everyone has pretty much covered this, but just to get in my two cents worth.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:1-2 ESV

"
Οὐδὲν ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα τοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ·2 ὁ γὰρ νόμος τοῦ πνεύματος τῆς ζωῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἠλευθέρωσέν [b]σε ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ τοῦ θανάτου." Romans 8:1-2 Greek.

Notice how short verse 1 is. There is no "extra" part at the end, which was a scribal copying error, transposed from verse 4, as has already been said. No conditions! Although obedience to God is always necessary and implied. I hope no one thinks it is not!
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#63
Please do explain ..how can a text 1000 years older be less accurate than a text 1000 years newer? Its rather silly to think that a much older text, would be farther from the original intention of the writing.
Through corrections, omissions, deletions, and editing by the Catholic church.




Example of Sinaiticus Corrections
15
As you can see, it looks like a much-corrected rough draft. Which is the Word of God, the original text, one of the many corrections, or none of the above? Sinaiticus also includes spurious, uninspired,apocryphal books, including 2 Esdras,Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas are added. New lay interest in this manuscript may be intended to create demand for an English translation of it. An 1861 translation of Sinaiticus’s New Testament has been placed online, including the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas.16 These two false writings (Epistle of Barnabas and Shepherd of Hermas)promote New Age and Satanism 17.Is a resurgence in public interest in Sinaiticus and Vaticanus intended to bring acceptance of heretical works like these into Christian circles?
 
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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,658
3,540
113
#64
Please do explain ..how can a text 1000 years older be less accurate than a text 1000 years newer? Its rather silly to think that a much older text, would be farther from the original intention of the writing.
It's only older because it was not read or studied. It was rejected by the remnant of believers, therefore, survived through the years. If it were passed around, handled, studied and read it would not have survived. The early remnant knew it had already been corrupted.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,658
3,540
113
#65
Can you say wall of texts, and in KJV?

No, KJV is totally off in this OP. And in many other things. Sorry, your scholars are wrong. My suggestion is to learn Greek, then you will see how many times the KJV is just wrong, let alone the scribal errors and additions over the centuries.

Anyway, everyone has pretty much covered this, but just to get in my two cents worth.

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death." Romans 8:1-2 ESV

"
Οὐδὲν ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα τοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ·2 ὁ γὰρ νόμος τοῦ πνεύματος τῆς ζωῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἠλευθέρωσέν [b]σε ἀπὸ τοῦ νόμου τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ τοῦ θανάτου." Romans 8:1-2 Greek.

Notice how short verse 1 is. There is no "extra" part at the end, which was a scribal copying error, transposed from verse 4, as has already been said. No conditions! Although obedience to God is always necessary and implied. I hope no one thinks it is not!
You're free from the body of flesh because of Christ, now walk like you're free. Walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. The context is dealing with a believer's walk. Salvation or eternal condemnation is not the issue. When a believer walks after the flesh, he is subject to condemnation either in this life or at the JSOC.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,047
13,056
113
58
#66
Is there a reason why Paul, who is writing to Christians, is telling them about being carnally minded, if they cannot be carnally minded because the Spirit of Christ is in them?
If they can't be carnally minded why tell them in the first place?
It would be nonsensical to think such a thing.
These babes in Christ in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 were behaving in a carnal manner, yet they were still babes IN CHRIST. Certain people interpret Romans 8:1 to mean that there are Christians who are in Christ that will remain in Christ because they walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh and there are Christians who are in Christ that will lose their salvation because they walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit, but I see below (quoting from post #49) that you are not in that camp.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Notice the separation between the law of sin and death.
That's two different laws that we are made free from IF we walk in the Spirit. As it is written.
There is more to life in Christ Jesus than saved or not saved. There's life on earth, in the here and now, in Christ Jesus.
There are both blessings and curses that each individual faces. The curses are a result of judgement or chastisement from God to His disobedient children. It has nothing to do with losing your eternal security, but it does have to do with losing your health or live as you know it in this world.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#67
It's only older because it was not read or studied. It was rejected by the remnant of believers, therefore, survived through the years. If it were passed around, handled, studied and read it would not have survived. The early remnant knew it had already been corrupted.
so one of you claim it was overused to the point people wrote all over it and changed it and you claim it was not used at all? I guess you guys don't understand that there is a whole number of other writings that agree with this text that was widely spread throughout the Christian world.

"Early remnant" ? I don't even know what you mean by that term? The catholic church ?
 
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Mar 23, 2016
6,857
1,646
113
#68
mailmandan said:
Certain people interpret Romans 8:1 to mean that there are Christians who are in Christ that will remain in Christ because they walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh and there are Christians who are in Christ that will lose their salvation because they walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit
I believe the believer remaining in Christ has more to do with fellowship in this life:


1 John 1:

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we
unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:



These verses indicate the fellowship the believer has with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. Wonderful fellowship.

And sometimes the believer steps out of fellowship with Father and Son through sin, as we sometimes miss the mark. We stumble in our walk.

When we stumble, we know we have an advocate with the Father ... our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1).

And when we stumble, we are instructed in 1 John 1:9 to confess our sin to Father and He is faithful and just to forgive.

The word confess is the Greek word homologeō and it means to say the same thing as another. What that means is that we agree with God that we have missed the mark laid out in His Word. He forgives and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. And fellowship is restored.

And please note 1 John 1:3 ... those who have fellowship with Father and Son will have fellowship with each other and in 1 John 1:4 the result of fellowship with Father and Son is fullness of joy.
:cool:
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#69
It's up to the LORD...HE gets the final say, and HE will harvest the crops alone...

However, it is written what it is written in John 3 of those who have believed in HIM...that those who have have passed from death to LIFE and will not be condemned...for the very reason that they have passed from death to LIFE...

But of course, at the end, the servants will be left to THEIR MASTER who will lay bare all these hidden things...

We were told to judge ourselves...therefore each man should examine himself and his own works and not his brother or sister...
 
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#70
Romans 8:5 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
It seems paul is talking to a mixed group.

Some have the spirit and are thus not condemned.

Some do not have the spirit, thus are in the flesh, thus can never please God, no matter what they do.

also seems Paul shows what the difference is..

One group has the spirit, one group does not (ie, what they do in their every day life is not the issue) the issue is if you have been born of God, and given the spirit, or dead to God, and thus lacking the spirit.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#71
Through corrections, omissions, deletions, and editing by the Catholic church.




Example of Sinaiticus Corrections
15
As you can see, it looks like a much-corrected rough draft. Which is the Word of God, the original text, one of the many corrections, or none of the above? Sinaiticus also includes spurious, uninspired,apocryphal books, including 2 Esdras,Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas are added. New lay interest in this manuscript may be intended to create demand for an English translation of it. An 1861 translation of Sinaiticus’s New Testament has been placed online, including the Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas.16 These two false writings (Epistle of Barnabas and Shepherd of Hermas)promote New Age and Satanism 17.Is a resurgence in public interest in Sinaiticus and Vaticanus intended to bring acceptance of heretical works like these into Christian circles?
Why do you turn every thread into a infomercial for the KJV Bible...would you please just STOP IT!?!?!?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#72
First off, I'm not a JW.
Secondly, you have spoken beyond your knowledge of me.
I have said in the past to those who do not have the faith for healing that they should seek the best the natural has to offer, because it is very unlikely that God would heal them.
As for my family and I, well, we live what we preach. Not to perfection, as we are still growing, but we get more than just healings in our family.
And as for any credibility with you or anyone else for that matter, not to be insulting, but I could care less about that.
If I did, then I would go about trying to agree with everyone.
On CC I have zero friends, and that doesn't bother me in the least.
I'm not here on CC for the friends or the kudos, but to present what I sincerely believe to be the truth, and to learn a thing or two from a few folk.
If you haven't noticed, those who have had salvation taught in their churches have people getting saved but very few healings or deliverances. But the churches that teach healing and deliverance with salvation, have just that.
That is why I quoted Jesus as saying, "According to your faith be it done unto you".
Because that IS the law of faith.
Yep. All those poor doctors that God gave that great gift too.. We should just ignore tham and not allow God to use them to work in our life. We should just trust God to heal..

Good luck with that.. and you should be careful who you tell. If one of your kids die because you do not take them to the hospital. you could be tried and convicted of murder.. and in my view, rightly so.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#73
Yes sir, I do, even though it is split in chapters. However, 7:25 does not negate 8:1's condition. You cannot ignore even a few words in the bible just to support and especially to propagate a preferred doctrine or one you want to believe.
If you choose to use the corrupt Greek versions that omit part of the verse to support your doctrine, that is on you.
As for the rest of the 95% of manuscripts that agree with the KJV, the word of God still has a condition there in verse one that anyone who is of the truth, CANNOT ignore, and will therefore take it as part of the truth of the gospel.
Yeah everybody is headed to hell that does not use the KJV Bible :rolleyes:

Why don't you go cuddle up with Jack Chick and leave us alone...
 
E

eph610

Guest
#74
If there is no condemnation,...period, then please explain what God did to them who drank and ate unworthily?

1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

It's not saying they lost their salvation, but some did lose their lives or were made weak or sickly.
If this is not being condemned in the flesh or physically, then what is it or what do you call it?
Why should I teach you what this means when you cannot even interpret the elementary doctrines.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75

I believe the believer remaining in Christ has more to do with fellowship in this life:


1 John 1:

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we
unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:



These verses indicate the fellowship the believer has with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. Wonderful fellowship.

And sometimes the believer steps out of fellowship with Father and Son through sin, as we sometimes miss the mark. We stumble in our walk.

When we stumble, we know we have an advocate with the Father ... our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1).

And when we stumble, we are instructed in 1 John 1:9 to confess our sin to Father and He is faithful and just to forgive.

The word confess is the Greek word homologeō and it means to say the same thing as another. What that means is that we agree with God that we have missed the mark laid out in His Word. He forgives and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. And fellowship is restored.

And please note 1 John 1:3 ... those who have fellowship with Father and Son will have fellowship with each other and in 1 John 1:4 the result of fellowship with Father and Son is fullness of joy.
:cool:
having fellowship and having eternal life are two different things.

You as a child may rebel or have a disagreement with your parent about a certain thing,, While doing this, there can be no fellowship with your parent in this area, However, You are still your parents daughter, They did not kick you out of their family. You were created by the blood of your parents, That blood tie can not be severed, You will ALWAYS be their child.

In the same token, a child created (born again) through the blood of Christ always has that blood tie, it can not be severed, you will always be Gods child..

But that doe snot mean you will always have fellowship. It can be broken, Blood can not.
 
E

eph610

Guest
#76
If a child of God gets sick and they say "I'm sick, I'm going to go to the doctor's office or get some medication", they are walking in the flesh and not the Spirit.
Yeah because God does not through medicines and Doctors...Are you really this blind?!?!?
 
E

eph610

Guest
#77
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, ...

I'm sure you would agree that most Christians are ignorant of God's ways and of His word.
I can tell you first hand that most on this sight reject simple truths, as you see me doing. But that is not the truth.
I am one of a few who have put just about all my beliefs and doctrines on trial, without any bias or leanings, to find and know the truth. I have sought God sincerely, with a pure heart to know the truth. I have publicly apologized for any errors on my part and changed what I believed on the spot, right then and there. I don't hold my doctrines dear to me, as most on this forum do. I hold the truth dear, and I form my doctrine on what God has shown me through His Spirit. I cannot say the same about most here on CC.
I do not regard anyone's teachings until I see it lining up with the word of God according to my very limited knowledge and understanding of His word and how His kingdom operates.
As the word of God says, God's people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge because they have rejected knowledge. Which translates to ignorance.
Another biggie is that most THINK they believe, or have faith, but they don't.
Most hope or wish God will heal them, but it is not faith.
Another is that most don't know what the will of God is for their healing.
If you don't know what the will of God concerning your healing, then you CANNOT have faith for it.
If you are praying, "lord, if it be your will...", forget it, nothing will happen. There is absolutely NO faith in that prayer.
Another is that most don't know how faith works.
Most want God to heal them. They don't know that God has already done so when they prayed. Most are still waiting for Him to do it because they still feel the same.
They are waiting for God to do the work BEFORE they believe it is done. Faith believes BECAUSE it is written, not because you FEEL better. If you feel better first, then what do you have to believe for. You are putting the cart before the horse.
Hope thinks it will be done some day in the future, faith thinks it's done NOW.
Another is that most don't believe what is written, AS IT IS WRITTEN.
Another is that most don't know that the word of God spoken in faith or the word of faith IS the power of God.
Another is that most don't know that you have to see it and have it BEFORE you actually see it, feel it, or have it.
Another biggie is that most don't know that a Christian has to, in most cases, repent of their sins, IN ORDER TO BE HEALED.
Most think forgiveness is automatic. If it was, then God wouldn't have told us to repent and confess our sins SO THAT WE MIGHT BE FORGIVEN of our sins and CLEANSED of all unrighteousness. If it were automatic, we wouldn't have to confess our sins to be forgiven of them.
Another is that most don't know to send the word of God for their healing as God did.
Not only is the word of God the power of God, but the word of God is what does the healing or deliverance. Therefore, we must send God's word that deals with healing.
Most don't know that their sickness is caused by a demonic spirit, and sometimes needs to be removed or cast out before they can be healed. But in most cases the spirit is there BECAUSE OF the person's sin or that of their parents, and cannot be removed until they are forgiven of their sin that caused it to be there in the first place.

God does not say, no, to His children who prayed in faith, standing on His word.
He just doesn't hear the prayer of the sinner.
If you know that He hears you, then you would know that you have the petition you requested.
ALL of God's promises in Christ Jesus ARE YEAH AND AMEN.
Do you see a, no, in there anywhere?

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Doesn't the word of God say, "EVERYONE" that asks, receives, and to them who ask, that the thing they ask for SHALL be given to them? If you believe what is written and put your faith in God doing just that, it will be done for you. God guarantees it. And neither can He lie. The problem is, most don't believe it.
Is healing a good thing or an evil thing?
Let me ask you this.
Is sickness a good thing or and evil thing?
So if you think healing is a good thing, then the word of God says that God wants to and will give you the good things you ask for. But Mk 11:24 says to believe you have received the thing you asked for WHEN you prayed, not after it manifests.

As for Paul's infirmity of the flesh, dare I say he too was ignorant of what to do about it.
And no, God did not tell him, no, suffer or put up with it.
What God did was give him the answer to His question.
The word of God says that we are saved by the grace of God through faith because we cannot do it ourselves. In and of ourselves, we are not righteous enough, nor do we have the power or ability to give ourselves eternal life or to go to heaven.
But, by the grace, through His Spirit, we are righteous enough, because of His righteousness in us, and we have eternal life, because we have His life in us, and so on. All because of the sufficiency of His grace to do so.
So if God's grace was sufficient for us to get saved, to have eternal life, through faith, then God's grace was sufficient enough for Him to deliver and heal Paul from the spirit causing the infirmity of the flesh.
Jesus never sent out His disciples telling them to ask God to cast out spirits. He told them to do it in His name. For they came back saying that all the spirits were subject to them through His name.
Paul was to do the same, and the grace of God would have been sufficient enough to take care of Paul's weakness or inability to remove the messenger of satan.
In other words, in James 4:7, God tell us to resist the devil with His word. Or to put it bluntly. You cast the thing out with my word.



As for my learning, I must first see something worth learning before I would consider it. And frankly, I get far more from the Spirit of God than I do from anyone on this forum. But as I mentioned in post 52, I did see something that I didn't see before, and it was because of what was written by reneweddaybyday.
Oh the famous, I am sick because of unresolved SIN in my life condemnation theology and so was Paul. WOW what sheer arrogance on your part...Paul did not get healed because he was ignorant!?!?! Whoa boy......


Paul rightly asked God to take it from him, and did not engage in confessin fer da blessin nonsense, God said his grace was enough for Paul to walk with the thorn anyway....
You are refuted for one simple statement...

Another biggie is that most THINK they believe, or have faith, but they don't.
Romans 12.3 completely irradiates you here...

You are undone by your own words...
 
Mar 23, 2016
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#78
having fellowship and having eternal life are two different things.
Yes, that was my point.

If/when fellowship is broken, it may be restored. Broken fellowship does not mean I am not the child of my Father.

Apologies if that was unclear.
:)
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#79
ALL of God's promises in Christ Jesus ARE YEAH AND AMEN.
Do you see a, no, in there anywhere?
Oopps! Except for NO condemnation right?

Teaching loss of salvation or eternal condemnation for those who are in Christ is the epitome of no faith at all. Faith that is DEAD.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80

Yes, that was my point.

If/when fellowship is broken, it may be restored. Broken fellowship does not mean I am not the child of my Father.

Apologies if that was unclear.
:)
:) My Apologies for misunderstanding you