Sabbath

[Dan_473]

Hi lovegodforever,

As I said, I haven't got the time to read through reams of copy and paste posts, not that I can't answer.

Anyhow, what do you think of what I said here:


There are roughly a few ideas on Sabbath: (there are smaller fringe groups with various ideas)

1) Seventh Adventist (cult) Strict Sabbatarians...
2) Christians who now see the Lords day as Christian Sabbath (Moral law is binding)
3) Christians who say the Ten commandments are no longer binding

I've over time been between both no 2 and 3, Settled on (2 )now for very good reasons! But what we do know is that we like the NT church celebrate our rest on the Lord's day (Sunday). But if you are only of work on Wednesday, then thats your day of rest, if you are only of work on a Thursday thats your day of rest (Rom 14:1ff).

Are you like the Seventh day Adventists?

I agree that large, copy-posted posts tend to discourage discussion.

lovegodforever, I would address the first scripture in post 3525 this way.

Ecclesiastes 3:14
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.


does this mean that something God wrote with his finger in stone is more lasting that something God says? I would say no.

Isaih 40
And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together:

for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:

but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

 

[Dan_473]

I dont know, I only go from what is expressely written. and honestly I dont see it as a Salvational issue, there are verses that it appears so and there are verses that it appears not;Honestly I think reading the text with YHWH for years has opened my eyes rather than readin the Lord which shows no distinction

this is used to support a trinity, however we can see in Job the angels were with YHWH during creation;

Genesis 1:26, "And the Mighty One said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the ground.”"

Job 38:4-7, “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding. Who set its measurements, if you know? Or who stretched the line upon it? Upon what were its foundations sunk? Or who laid its corner-stone, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of Yl (angels in most translations) shouted for joy?”

◄ Job 38:7 ►

New International Version
while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

New Living Translation
as the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

In the OT there is a difference shown;

Psalm 110:1, "YHWH (#3068) said to my Ruler and King(#113): Sit at My right hand, until I make Your enemies Your footstool."

3068 – Yah-weh, יהוה , The LORD, 3068 - YHWH - Yhwh: the proper name of the God of Israel, Original Word: יְהֹוָה, Part of Speech: Proper Name, Transliteration: Yhwh, Phonetic Spelling: (yah-weh/yah-hu-wah/yeh-ho-vaw), Short Definition: YHWH

113 - la-ḏō-nî, לַֽאדֹנִ֗י , to my Lord, 113 - adon, adon: lord, Original Word: אָדוֹן, Part of Speech: Noun Masculine, Transliteration: adon,Phonetic Spelling: (aw-done'), Short Definition: lord

and in the new;

Yahanan/John 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus."

Romans 8:29, "For whom He did foreknow, He also did foreordain to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers."

I simply believe YHWH is the Father and Yahshua is the Messiah, for me to try to fully quantify them is something that is imposible for any humans to do.

Revelation 21:23, “And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, to shine in it, for the esteem of Yah lightened it, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."

John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

◄ John 17:3 ►

TS2009
John 17:3, "“And this is everlasting life, that they should know You, the only true Elohim, and יהושע Messiah whom You have sent."

New International Version
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

New Living Translation
And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

English Standard Version
And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

yes, there are verses that indicate that Jesus is God, and others that indicate that he is separate from the Father.

the trinity is just an easy way to talk about that problem.

**************************************************

again, verses that indicate Jesus is God
and verses that say he is a man.

I've heard this called the "Dual Nature".

Jesus is fully God, and fully human.

 

[Endoscopy]

Good morning Studyman, and all who read this. I was asleep when you posted this last of yours. I feel muc the same.

During the night I awoke and ws meditating on how many seem to recomple the Word rather than , as it is written, rightly divide it.

I was once tld in a dream after being shown the way I would go that there would be no trees on the Way. I believe this applies to all who believe. It is lonely in the flesh, but never in the Spirit. Jesus is driving the car, we are passengers..

God bless you.......

Your post reminds me of a story a pastor told about an old woman. She approached the pastor after a sermon and gave him what she called his Bible. He was shocked complaining it contained no pages. She replied every time he said he rejected something that she tore out those pages. This is what was left. That story stuck with me because too many choose to try and pick and choose what parts of the Bible are correct. They ignore the Bible IS the Word of God

 

[Endoscopy]

yes, there are verses that indicate that Jesus is God, and others that indicate that he is separate from the Father.

the trinity is just an easy way to talk about that problem.

**************************************************

again, verses that indicate Jesus is God
and verses that say he is a man.

I've heard this called the "Dual Nature".

Jesus is fully God, and fully human.

I love Biblesgateway.com you can change the translation at will. Thus seeing the differences in the translations. I like the Amplified for study since it gives different definitions of the word. It makes for cumbersome reading though. That is balanced by better understanding.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I love Biblesgateway.com you can change the translation at will. Thus seeing the differences in the translations. I like the Amplified for study since it gives different definitions of the word. It makes for cumbersome reading though. That is balanced by better understanding.

I love the Amplified bible. It was one of my favorite bibles for many years which I no longer have. Maybe it is time for me to get another one to go with my KJV's. It is funny though because with new technology now days I always use the computer for bible study but it is not the same as having the written Word of God in book form. Thanks for reminding me of the Amplified. This with my KJV, Concordance and Interlinear were my favorite study tools before the PC and I think everyone needs regardless of if they have a PC or not.

May God bless you always as you Seek Him through His Word....

 

[Dan_473]

I love Biblesgateway.com you can change the translation at will. Thus seeing the differences in the translations. I like the Amplified for study since it gives different definitions of the word. It makes for cumbersome reading though. That is balanced by better understanding.

yes, I use biblegateway.com a lot, too!

also, I like the biblehub interlinear, because both Strong's and Thayer's are available by clicking around the word.

like this page

Matthew 5:17 Interlinear: 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil;

 

[Dan_473]

all of this reminds me of a previous post

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."


John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."


1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mat 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (the intent/sums up) the Law and the Prophets."


Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."


“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) all, whole, completely


Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and (#G2087 ) any othercommandments are summed up ( #G346 ) in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."


“any”is word #G2087 - heteros
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the other, another, other, 1 to number,1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing,1a2) the other of two,1b) to quality,1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different


“summed up” is word #G346 – anakephalaioó: to sum up, gather up, Original Word: ἀνακεφαλαιόω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: anakephalaioó, Phonetic Spelling: (an-ak-ef-al-ah'-ee-om-ahee), Short Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one, Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one

"On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

"and (#G2087 ) any other commandments are summed up ( #G346 ) in these Laws"

Yahshua and Paul did not say these abolish or overwrite the rest, but rather the rest are contained in these, me\aning if he rest are broken, these are broken...

lots of great information, there.

one easy mistake to make is regarding the word translated "any" which I believe is not "heteros" but "tis". "heteros" is the greek word for "other".

interesting definition for "anakephalaioutai", "summed up" or, based on the roots of the word, I would say "headed up".


I think it's great to continue on to the next verse, where we see the word "plērōma", "fulfilled".

that's the same root word Jesus/Yahshua uses in Matt 5!

Romans 13:10 Interlinear: the love to the neighbour doth work no ill; the love, therefore, is the fulness of law.

Matthew 5:17 Interlinear: 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil;

 

[Hizikyah]

all of this reminds me of a previous post

lots of great information, there.

one easy mistake to make is regarding the word translated "any" which I believe is not "heteros" but "tis". "heteros" is the greek word for "other".

interesting definition for "anakephalaioutai", "summed up" or, based on the roots of the word, I would say "headed up".


I think it's great to continue on to the next verse, where we see the word "plērōma", "fulfilled".

that's the same root word Jesus/Yahshua uses in Matt 5!

Romans 13:10 Interlinear: the love to the neighbour doth work no ill; the love, therefore, is the fulness of law.

Matthew 5:17 Interlinear: 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil;

Thank you for the correction! When I was putting that togather I clearly combind "any other" into "any " rather than show "any" and "other";

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and (#G2087 ) any othercommandments aresummed up ( #G346 ) in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]any”is word #G5100 - tis: a certain one, someone, anyone, Original Word: τις, τι, Part of Speech: Indefinite Pronoun, Transliteration: tis, Phonetic Spelling: (tis), Short Definition: any one, some one, Definition: any one, some one, a certain one or thing.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]other”is word #G2087 - heteros [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the other, another, other, 1 to number,1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing,1a2) the other of two,1b) to quality,1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]summed up” is word #G346 – anakephalaioó: to sum up, gather up, Original Word: ἀνακεφαλαιόω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: anakephalaioó, Phonetic Spelling: (an-ak-ef-al-ah'-ee-om-ahee), Short Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one, Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one

To your next point;

So does pleroo abolish? Because if we read one more verss in Mat 5, Yahshua/Jesus says noting will pass from the Law unless heaven and earth pass and all is perfected? Did this already happen?
[/FONT]

 

[Endoscopy]

yes, there are verses that indicate that Jesus is God, and others that indicate that he is separate from the Father.

the trinity is just an easy way to talk about that problem.

**************************************************

again, verses that indicate Jesus is God
and verses that say he is a man.

I've heard this called the "Dual Nature".

Jesus is fully God, and fully human.

This is one of the mysteries about God. John 1 states Jesus is God. Jesus stated He and the Father are one. On the other hand He prayed to the Father. As with Revelation I take the pan view. It will all pan out in the end. We will understand when we are with Jesus.

 

[Endoscopy]

I love the Amplified bible. It was one of my favorite bibles for many years which I no longer have. Maybe it is time for me to get another one to go with my KJV's. It is funny though because with new technology now days I always use the computer for bible study but it is not the same as having the written Word of God in book form. Thanks for reminding me of the Amplified. This with my KJV, Concordance and Interlinear were my favorite study tools before the PC and I think everyone needs regardless of if they have a PC or not.

May God bless you always as you Seek Him through His Word....

Keep in mind the KJV was translated in 1611. English has changed since then. For example the word kill meant murder. Languages are never static.

 

[Dan_473]

Thank you for the correction! When I was putting that togather I clearly combind "any other" into "any " rather than show "any" and "other";

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and (#G2087 ) any othercommandments aresummed up ( #G346 ) in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]any”is word #G5100 - tis: a certain one, someone, anyone, Original Word: τις, τι, Part of Speech: Indefinite Pronoun, Transliteration: tis, Phonetic Spelling: (tis), Short Definition: any one, some one, Definition: any one, some one, a certain one or thing.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]other”is word #G2087 - heteros [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the other, another, other, 1 to number,1a1) to number as opposed to some former person or thing,1a2) the other of two,1b) to quality,1b1) another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]summed up” is word #G346 – anakephalaioó: to sum up, gather up, Original Word: ἀνακεφαλαιόω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: anakephalaioó, Phonetic Spelling: (an-ak-ef-al-ah'-ee-om-ahee), Short Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one, Definition: I sum up, summarize, recapitulate, gather up in one

To your next point;

So does pleroo abolish? Because if we read one more verss in Mat 5, Yahshua/Jesus says noting will pass from the Law unless heaven and earth pass and all is perfected? Did this already happen?
[/FONT]

no, I don't think the law is abolished.

 

[Hizikyah]

no, I don't think the law is abolished.

Do you believe it is to be followed? as in the same standard the Yahshua/Jesus taught?

 

[Dan_473]

Do you believe it is to be followed? as in the same standard the Yahshua/Jesus taught?

well, since it can be fulfilled, I think the way to follow it is to fulfill it.

 

[Dan_473]

and of course, Jesus/Yahshua's teaching didn't end when he ascended into heaven at the beginning of Acts.

 

[Hizikyah]

well, since it can be fulfilled, I think the way to follow it is to fulfill it.

Is that a roundabout way of saying I dont do it but Jesus does? Or is that a way to say no matter how much I fail I seek His righteous Commands? That could be used either way right?

 

[Dan_473]

Is that a roundabout way of saying I dont do it but Jesus does? Or is that a way to say no matter how much I fail I seek His righteous Commands? That could be used either way right?

what I'm trying to say is this

Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

What is Jesus/Yahsua teaching us through Paul, here?

 

[Hizikyah]

what I'm trying to say is this

Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

What is Jesus/Yahsua teaching us through Paul, here?

Here is the passage, I will give some verses then my own words;

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and any other commandments aresummed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

This:

Mat 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (the intent/sums up) the Law and the Prophets."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 Timothy 1:5, “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”

1 Timothy 1:5-7, " But the goal* of the commandment is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions."

(goal)is word #G5056 –télos; Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies – 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

1 John 4:20, “"If someone says, "I love Yah," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love Yah whom he has not seen."


He is teaching that true love according to the Creator is the same thing that is written in the Law.

Walk in true love=performing the Law

Perform the Law=walking in true love

We are told

2 Timothy 2:19-21, “However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal, “יהוה knows those who are His, and, let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness. But in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some unto value and some unto no value. If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every good work.”

John 17:17, “Set them apart in Your truth – Your Word is truth.”

Psalms 119:142, “Your righteousness is righteousness forever, And Your Torah is truth.”

Psalms 119:151, “You are near, O יהוה, And all Your commands are truth.”

Psalms 119:160, “The sum of Your word is truth, And all Your righteous right-rulings are forever.”

2 Timothy 2:15, “Do your utmost to present yourself approved to Yah, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly handling the Word of Truth.”

1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."

I ahve never met anyone who without reading knew everything that was in the word, we learn alot about Yahshua from reading about Him... If what we beleive and do does not line up with the word, it is the word that is right, and we shouldadjust ourselves to submit to His power, might, will and yes Instructions.

 

[Dan_473]

lots of good points!

now, if we do only some of the commandments, are we guarding them?

 

[Hizikyah]

lots of good points!

now, if we do only some of the commandments, are we guarding them?

Who is promoting only some commandments?

 

[Hizikyah]

lots of good points!

now, if we do only some of the commandments, are we guarding them?

and no, guarding His commands one would guard all of them, selecting this or that is not guarding them, it is picking and choosing. (yes there are Laws only for the High Priest, me not seeking those is not picking and choosing, the High Priest Laws are still valid because Yahshua now sits eternally as High Priest)