Sabbath

[TMS]

Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Many believe this has a double meaning, for both the people in Jerusalem in 70 ad and for the end time Christians before Christ returns.
either way the Sabbath is mentioned by Jesus, as something to pray about, years After the Cross.

 

[mailmandan]

Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Many believe this has a double meaning, for both the people in Jerusalem in 70 ad and for the end time Christians before Christ returns.
either way the Sabbath is mentioned by Jesus, as something to pray about, years After the Cross.

The true reason why Jesus said, "pray that your flight may not be on a Sabbath" Mt 24:20:

A. The reason Jesus said to pray that the city would not be destroyed beginning on a Sabbath day is obvious to anyone but Sabbatarians!

1. Jerusalem was a Jewish dominated town which kept 100% of the law of Moses up to 70AD.
2. The Gates of the city would be closed on the Sabbath: Neh 13:15-22
3. This would hinder the Lord's instructions to the Christians to GET OUT OF THE CITY before the Roman armies destroyed the city as Jesus said in Luke 21:20

B. Jesus lists 3 things that would hinder fleeing the city: Mt 24:15-21

1. Pregnant or Nursing mothers hindered for obvious reasons.
2. Winter would hinder because of exposure to cold and snow.
3. Sabbath day because gates of the Jewish controlled city of Jerusalem would be locked and they could not get out!

C. Sabbatarians argue that Jesus mentioned the Sabbath in order that they might not sin and break the Sabbath which Christians were required to keep:

1. This is nonsense, for Jesus showed that the life of a man was worth more than the Sabbath day!: Mk 2:27
2. Are Adventists really willing to say that Jesus excepted a man to break the Sabbath to get a farm animal out of a pit but a man could not run to save his own life on the Sabbath? Adventists really don't think through their arguments very well.
3. Jesus taught that under such circumstances such fleeing the city on the Sabbath WOULD NOT BE SIN!!!
4. Obviously then, Jesus did not have the sacredness of the day in mind when he told them to pray that their flight out of the city of Jerusalem not be on the Sabbath.

D. Jesus prophesied that the city of Jerusalem was to be destroyed in 70 AD: Lk 21:5-24

1. Lk 21:5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said, "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down."
2. Lk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand."

The true reason why Jesus said, "pray that your flight may not be on a Sabbath" Mt 24:20

 

[lightbearer]

Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Many believe this has a double meaning, for both the people in Jerusalem in 70 ad and for the end time Christians before Christ returns.
either way the Sabbath is mentioned by Jesus, as something to pray about, years After the Cross.

And He is speaking to his apostles.
Which by the way would be a very confusing thing for them, if the Sabbath was to be done away with. Just saying.....

 

[Studyman]

If we think that keeping the Sabbath means what we do or don't do one a certain day - whether Saturday or Sunday - we have missed Christ Himself who is our true Sabbath. The Old Testament view of the Sabbath is a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself.

I encourage you to look into the New Covenant and you will begin to experience the true Sabbath rest that the Old Testament alludes to - and it is Christ Himself.

That is a good idea;

Jer. 3133 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So there is no mention of different laws here. Only that it will be God writing HIS Laws on our hearts, not the Levites or the scribes as was prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood.

So God will intervene directly to forgive our sins. No more Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remissions of sins.

So if we look at what the Scriptures actually teach about the New Covenant it pertains to 2 things.

#1. How the Law is administered, which was through the Levitical Priesthood in the Old Covenant..

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

#2. How sin's are forgiven, which WAS through the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins.

Heb. 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests,(Levites of the Levitical Priesthood) to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb. 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

So if we do as you suggest and actually look into what the New Covenant is, we see it does in no way re-define sin, or change anything regarding God's commandments.

The New Covenant deals with How His Laws are administered, and How transgressions of His Laws are cleansed.

A new and better way.

 

[Endoscopy]

Yes!!!That appears to be rather subjective though. How does one know?

That is what the Bible is for. Does it conform to the teaching of God's Word and law.

 

[lightbearer]

That is what the Bible is for. Does it conform to the teaching of God's Word and law.

It is not always that easy. Abraham for example.

 

[lightbearer]

The true reason why Jesus said, "pray that your flight may not be on a Sabbath" Mt 24:20:

A. The reason Jesus said to pray that the city would not be destroyed beginning on a Sabbath day is obvious to anyone but Sabbatarians!


B. Jesus lists 3 things that would hinder fleeing the city: Mt 24:15-21



C. Sabbatarians argue that Jesus mentioned the Sabbath in order that they might not sin and break the Sabbath which Christians were required to keep:



D. Jesus prophesied that the city of Jerusalem was to be destroyed in 70 AD: Lk 21:5-24



The true reason why Jesus said, "pray that your flight may not be on a Sabbath" Mt 24:20

Context brings us to 1290 years in the future; not to the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD my friend. But 1290 years from the point that the Messiah is cut off on Calvary.


Matthew 24:20 is being said in connection with verse 15.

The abomination of desolation happens many years in the future from the destruction of the Temple.

Here let's take a look.

Then when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (the one reading, let him understand),
(Mat 24:15 LITV-TSP)


And from the time the regular sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that desolates set up, a thousand, two hundred and ninety days shall occur .
(Dan 12:11 LITV-TSP)

And after sixty two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of a coming prince shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, and war shall be until the end. And he ( Messiah) shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a wing of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator.
(Dan 9:26-27 LITV-TSP)

As we can see The Messiah shall be cut off. He shall cause the sacrifice to cease (the sacrifice shall be taken away). And from that point; 1290 days and then the abomination of desolates is set up. (the one reading, let him understand),

If we use the "day for a year" Prophetic standard put forth by the LORD in Ezekiel 4:6 that brings us to 1290 years from the point in which the Messiah offered up His sacrifice not to 70AD.

So one can easily see that Jesus is saying, "Pray that your flight not be in the winter or the Sabbath day" in context to 1290 years from the point of His work on Calvary, not the destruction of the Temple.

It is also note worthy that Jesus says in Matt 24:15, "whoso readeth, let him understand". ​This emphasizes the point that he is speaking to those in the future. The earliest date that I can see that is placed on Matthew is 40 AD. But the general consensus is 70 to 90 AD. Either way the circulation and transcribing difficulties of it would had made it virtually unheard of. Especially considering the persecution the Christians were receiving from their Judean brethren. The Christian church was not welcome in Judea my friend; let alone Jerusalem.

Also when one considers the context of Matthew 24:20. The Apostles to whom He is speaking to have long since been dead.

Here take a look in Matt 24:9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

All the verses that follow that are a continuation of the same prophesy. Well past verse 24 actually. So that means that the Prophesy is more for (whomsoever readeth ) than the Apostles.

 

[Endoscopy]

This is part of the eschatologyical portions of scripture. Theologians have created 4 Biblical versions of eschatology. Discuss these portions of scripture all you want claiming to know what they mean but the truth is the meanings are hidden from us. They will be made known as it happens and not before. The abomination of desolation takes place in the temple. Where is the temple?

 

[Grandpa]

This is part of the eschatologyical portions of scripture. Theologians have created 4 Biblical versions of eschatology. Discuss these portions of scripture all you want claiming to know what they mean but the truth is the meanings are hidden from us. They will be made known as it happens and not before. The abomination of desolation takes place in the temple. Where is the temple?

How long has the muslim temple been on the temple mount?

I would say that should qualify as an abomination of desolation.

 

[Endoscopy]

How long has the muslim temple been on the temple mount?

I would say that should qualify as an abomination of desolation.

You really think that a Muslim temple could be considered??? Muslim beliefs are completely at odds with Judeo-Christian theology. Having studied the Koran it violates lots of Biblical teachings. It has abrogation for instance. A later spoken section can replace earlier spoken ones. Abrogation is written in two different places in the Koran. The Koran claims that the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels are from God and then claims Jesus said He never claimed to be the Father but was just a prophet.

Muslims believe that Christians belief about the trinity means we are polytheists and the Koran tells them to behead polytheists. This verse just says kill but other places say strike them about the neck.

Quran surah 9 1-16
1. A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty.
2. So travel the land for four months, and know that you cannot escape God, and that God will disgrace the disbelievers.
3. And a proclamation from God and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that God has disowned the polytheists, and so did His Messenger. If you repent, it will be better for you. But if you turn away, know that you cannot escape God. And announce to those who disbelieve a painful punishment.
4. Except for those among the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty, and did not violate any of its terms, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill the treaty with them to the end of its term. God loves the righteous.
5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayers, and pay the alms, then let them go their way. God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6. And if anyone of the polytheists asks you for protection, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God; then escort him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
7. How can there be a treaty with the polytheists on the part of God and His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? As long as they are upright with you, be upright with them. God loves the pious.
8. How? Whenever they overcome you, they respect neither kinship nor treaty with you. They satisfy you with lip service, but their hearts refuse, and most of them are immoral.
9. They traded away God's revelations for a cheap price, so they barred others from His path. How evil is what they did.
10. Towards a believer they respect neither kinship nor treaty. These are the transgressors.
11. But if they repent, and perform the prayers, and give the obligatory charity, then they are your brethren in faith. We detail the revelations for a people who know.
12. But if they violate their oaths after their pledge, and attack your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief—they have no faith—so that they may desist.
13. Will you not fight a people who violated their oaths, and planned to exile the Messenger, and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? It is God you should fear, if you are believers.
14. Fight them. God will punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you against them, and heal the hearts of a believing people.
15. And He will remove the anger of their hearts. God redeems whomever He wills. God is Knowledgeable and Wise.
16. Or do you think that you will be left alone, without God identifying which of you will strive, and take no supporters apart from God, His Messenger, and the believers? God is well Aware of what you do.

 

[Grandpa]

You really think that a Muslim temple could be considered??? Muslim beliefs are completely at odds with Judeo-Christian theology. Having studied the Koran it violates lots of Biblical teachings. It has abrogation for instance. A later spoken section can replace earlier spoken ones. Abrogation is written in two different places in the Koran. The Koran claims that the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels are from God and then claims Jesus said He never claimed to be the Father but was just a prophet.

Muslims believe that Christians belief about the trinity means we are polytheists and the Koran tells them to behead polytheists. This verse just says kill but other places say strike them about the neck.

Quran surah 9 1-16
1. A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty.
2. So travel the land for four months, and know that you cannot escape God, and that God will disgrace the disbelievers.
3. And a proclamation from God and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that God has disowned the polytheists, and so did His Messenger. If you repent, it will be better for you. But if you turn away, know that you cannot escape God. And announce to those who disbelieve a painful punishment.
4. Except for those among the polytheists with whom you had made a treaty, and did not violate any of its terms, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill the treaty with them to the end of its term. God loves the righteous.
5. When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayers, and pay the alms, then let them go their way. God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6. And if anyone of the polytheists asks you for protection, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God; then escort him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
7. How can there be a treaty with the polytheists on the part of God and His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? As long as they are upright with you, be upright with them. God loves the pious.
8. How? Whenever they overcome you, they respect neither kinship nor treaty with you. They satisfy you with lip service, but their hearts refuse, and most of them are immoral.
9. They traded away God's revelations for a cheap price, so they barred others from His path. How evil is what they did.
10. Towards a believer they respect neither kinship nor treaty. These are the transgressors.
11. But if they repent, and perform the prayers, and give the obligatory charity, then they are your brethren in faith. We detail the revelations for a people who know.
12. But if they violate their oaths after their pledge, and attack your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief—they have no faith—so that they may desist.
13. Will you not fight a people who violated their oaths, and planned to exile the Messenger, and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? It is God you should fear, if you are believers.
14. Fight them. God will punish them at your hands, and humiliate them, and help you against them, and heal the hearts of a believing people.
15. And He will remove the anger of their hearts. God redeems whomever He wills. God is Knowledgeable and Wise.
16. Or do you think that you will be left alone, without God identifying which of you will strive, and take no supporters apart from God, His Messenger, and the believers? God is well Aware of what you do.

I'm not trying to argue or anything.

I just thought it would fit the description of abomination of desolation.

I still do.

Maybe it gets worse... Maybe there is a worse abomination of desolation that will be performed there.

 

[mailmandan]

Well you said it came from Rev 1:10. There is nothing in scripture that proves that. If we were to use conjecture one might as well surmise that the Sabbath is the Lord's day due to the fact that Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath. But there is no real proof for that either. Quite the quandary.

So what scripture my friend? You have others I assume.

The weight of evidence is stronger for The Lord's Day being the first day (Sunday) - The Lord's Day - Revelation 1:10 ... The First Day!

 

[JaumeJ]

God, Yahweh, has not changed nor has He amended the Ten.

Anyone arguing against any one of them is walking in error according to His Word.

In the beginning the Word was with God and is God. Jesus Christ is the Word.

Perhaps some believe they have a higher standard than perfection. They cannot be helped.

 

[notuptome]

God, Yahweh, has not changed nor has He amended the Ten.

Anyone arguing against any one of them is walking in error according to His Word.

In the beginning the Word was with God and is God. Jesus Christ is the Word.

Perhaps some believe they have a higher standard than perfection. They cannot be helped.

Sorry this reeks of sanctimony.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JaumeJ]

The most obvious for to ask you is Which point is where I am sanctimonious, but you know what......just as my Father will not hear an unrighteous prayer, I do not hear your pointless accusations........Enjoy your superiority

Sorry this reeks of sanctimony while it lasts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

The most obvious for to ask you is Which point is where I am sanctimonious, but you know what......just as my Father will not hear an unrighteous prayer, I do not hear your pointless accusations........Enjoy your superiority

The hypocrisy of the pretense that you can keep the "ten" for righteousness sake.

Jehovah said rightly that with their lips they render service but their heart is far from Me.

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[lightbearer]

How long has the muslim temple been on the temple mount?

I would say that should qualify as an abomination of desolation.

Built 688–692 my friend. Doesn't fit the time frame.

 

[Endoscopy]

The weight of evidence is stronger for The Lord's Day being the first day (Sunday) - The Lord's Day - Revelation 1:10 ... The First Day!

I hate to put a damper on your assertion but you are not understanding a simple fact about Sabbaths. There are annual Sabbaths that fall during the week. Passover week has 2 seperate Sabbaths. The first day and the last day. During that week there most often is 3 Sabbaths. The first, last, and the weekly one. Remember his crucifixion occurred during the Passover week. So which Sabbath was it the weekly or last one?

 

[JaumeJ]

It never ceases to astound how certai flesh has the Word on trial instead of understanding it. Incredible!

 

[JaumeJ]

hERE IS HYPOCRISY: dECLARING TO ALL THAT I or anyone else who works to obey God believe they ae already perfect. Thi is hypocrisy.

Neer say I have ever said man can live by the law perfectly for this is saing I do not believe JESUS cHRIST HS done this for me. Find in my posting anywhere...you will see I do say the Law is not dead only fulfilled, and that we are saved by graqce.

I know of no brother or sister who believes we shoud obey our Father who has stated what you are apparantly very deluded about.

The hypocrisy of the pretense that you can keep the "ten" for righteousness sake.

Jehovah said rightly that with their lips they render service but their heart is far from Me.

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

For the cause of Christ
Roger