Sacrifice and The Oblation?

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LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#1
I already have my understanding of this verse. I would like to hear from other people.

Daniel 9 (KJV)


27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#2
The Antichrist party to an agreement, possibly a seven year (time of "Jacob's trouble") peace treaty, he coming in a fraud of peace, but not necessarily peace this covenant. Anyway, an agreement where one could gather Israel has gained their temple, but he crashes the operations of Judaism half way through the seven years, stops the sacrifice, as if desecrating Antiochus slaughtered a pig on the alter, the Antichrist shows himself to be God in the temple, possibly setting up a statue or image of himself there. This will desolate the temple, Judaism, the people of Israel, include terrors and bloodshed of the tribulation coming to Israel (Satan's last crack at the Jews), until the Lord comes to fix Antichrist's wagon. I've always sort of seen the Antichrist himself as that "abomination that maketh desolate," though it's as if some apparatus of Antichrist worship is placed in the temple I believe, again, maybe a statue or image of him. This is some ideas on this, correct I have no idea to what degree, and others have other ideas. But I do reject Preterist-ish allegorical notions.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#3
The Antichrist party to an agreement, possibly a seven year (time of "Jacob's trouble") peace treaty, he coming in a fraud of peace, but not necessarily peace this covenant. Anyway, an agreement where one could gather Israel has gained their temple, but he crashes the operations of Judaism half way through the seven years, stops the sacrifice, as if desecrating Antiochus slaughtered a pig on the alter, the Antichrist shows himself to be God in the temple, possibly setting up a statue or image of himself there. This will desolate the temple, Judaism, the people of Israel, include terrors and bloodshed of the tribulation coming to Israel (Satan's last crack at the Jews), until the Lord comes to fix Antichrist's wagon. I've always sort of seen the Antichrist himself as that "abomination that maketh desolate," though it's as if some apparatus of Antichrist worship is placed in the temple I believe, again, maybe a statue or image of him. This is some ideas on this, correct I have no idea to what degree, and others have other ideas. But I do reject Preterist-ish allegorical notions.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Why do you reject Preterist-ish allegorical notions?
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#4
Why do you reject Preterist-ish allegorical notions?
Because Bible prophecy has proven to be of literal character as it unfolds. For instance, we have had Catholicism negate the promises of God to Israel, which are without repentance, according to very God in scripture, substitute the church for Israel in scripture by the likes of Augustine, to find the nation Israel literally reborn in 1948, in one day, exactly as the OT prophesied. God is not the author of confusion. Allegorizing everything leads to man assigning values to scripture, led to such anti-Semitic evils as this replacement theology, and even stupidity, fitting square pegs into round holes over eschatology, for instance, things which could not have possibly have occurred in the world in any sense of Revelation relegated to the past. The end result? Revelation relegated to meaning nothing but some imaginative construct of man's feeble and errant mind. God is not Nostradamus. The Bible is not Nostradamus. Also, personally, the literal meanings of things Preterists reject make complete sense and harmony of all Bible scripture, which I can plainly see between OT and NT of the future, no confusion taking the Bible for just what it says in the main. The Old Testament prophecies of Jesus Christ came true as written, as so will those of the second coming, yet to occur. Just because people, especially of old, may not have understood some scripture, this doesn't mean you have license to explain it away, such as some nonsense about it referring to the Roman church. So, people wandering the wilderness of the Preterists, just have a nice day, guess all I can say. Discuss it with the Jehovah's Witnesses?
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#6
Because Bible prophecy has proven to be of literal character as it unfolds. For instance, we have had Catholicism negate the promises of God to Israel, which are without repentance, according to very God in scripture, substitute the church for Israel in scripture by the likes of Augustine, to find the nation Israel literally reborn in 1948, in one day, exactly as the OT prophesied. God is not the author of confusion. Allegorizing everything leads to man assigning values to scripture, led to such anti-Semitic evils as this replacement theology, and even stupidity, fitting square pegs into round holes over eschatology, for instance, things which could not have possibly have occurred in the world in any sense of Revelation relegated to the past. The end result? Revelation relegated to meaning nothing but some imaginative construct of man's feeble and errant mind. God is not Nostradamus. The Bible is not Nostradamus. Also, personally, the literal meanings of things Preterists reject make complete sense and harmony of all Bible scripture, which I can plainly see between OT and NT of the future, no confusion taking the Bible for just what it says in the main. The Old Testament prophecies of Jesus Christ came true as written, as so will those of the second coming, yet to occur.
No need to be defensive. I only asked because Preterism is a view in christian eschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days refer to events which took place in the first century after Christ's birth,

and If we allow scripture to interpret itself plus if we take at look at history to confirm it you would see how this verse may have already taken place, no need to plug pegs out of thin air to come up with some conclusion of our own interpretation.

Additionally, I was only talking about Daniel not Revelation.


Just because people, especially of old, may not have understood some scripture, this doesn't mean you have license to explain it away, such as some nonsense about it referring to the Roman church. So, people wandering the wilderness of the Preterists, just have a nice day, guess all I can say. Discuss it with the Jehovah's Witnesses?


This whole last part was so unnecessary. If by old you imply cause I believe in the Ten Commandments you are correct. lol And the scriptures pertaining to that I completely understood. And I'm not explaining anything if you read my initial statement I wanted to know what other people thought about it. Have a nice day too, and well I think I'd need to discuss very basic doctrine with them first before I jump to something like this. :p
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#8
In that thread I provide Scripture that the outer court was considered a part of the Temple. Today, one of the walls from the outer court is still standing. But Jesus said that all the stones within the Temple would be thrown down. So Preterism is false.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#9
OK, please don't comment without reading the following post in its entirety. Thank you. And since people don't want to share their understanding of the verse I thought I might, plus other verses as well. I hope it makes sense if someone has studied this before and can find room for improvement please provide correction with scripture, etc.

Daniel 9: (KJV)
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


When was the commandment given to restore and to build Jerusalem? Note, not only the temple, but Jerusalem.


Jeremiah 29: (KJV)
10 For thus saith the Lord, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.


Ezra 1: (KJV)
1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,


2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

*That is the first decree giving to restore the temple, but the prophecy in Daniel is talking about Jerusalem as a whole. There are three decrees given only one of them fulfills the prophecy in Daniel, which is the last one from king Artaxerxes.



Ezra 7: (KJV)
1 Now after these things, in the reign of Artaxerxes king of Persia, Ezra the son of Seraiah, the son of Azariah, the son of Hilkiah,
........
24 Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.

25 And thou, Ezra, after the wisdom of thy God, that is in thine hand, set magistrates and judges, which may judge all the people that are beyond the river, all such as know the laws of thy God; and teach ye them that know them not.

26 And whosoever will not do the law of thy God, and the law of the king, let judgment be executed speedily upon him, whether it be unto death, or to banishment, or to confiscation of goods, or to imprisonment.

*Ok, so we can see that the final decree by king
Artaxerxes, Jerusalem is rebuilt with order along with the completion of the temple since it had ceased. You can read that in chapters prior to this one.

Now, for the next part it is imperative we understand the following concept.

Numbers 14: (KJV)

33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

40 days = 40 yrs, One year for each day.

again in,

Ezekiel 4: (KJV)
5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Ok back to Daniel.

Daniel 9: (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Here its not literally talking about seventy weeks.

7*70= 490 days = 490 yrs and since it is safe to say that this prophecy was given to the Jews we can replace where it says thy people and upon the holy city to Jews and Jerusalem. The messiah is the most holy.

lets read it again with this understanding:

490 Years are determined upon the Jews and upon Jerusalem, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Before I move on to the next verse I want to establish something:

*A group of twenty units may also be referred to as a score.

*I understand this next point has nothing to do with scripture but I include it to emphasize that a score equals 20, just for those who don't know or may oppose this concept. Or you can even search it out for yourself what a score means.

On November 19, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln gave a speech that would be quoted for centuries to come. Lincoln’s address starts with “Four score and seven years ago.” A score is equal to 20 years, so he was referencing 87 years ago — 1776, when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

20+20+20+20+7=87

1863-87=1776

so we can conclude that a score= 20

back to Daniel

Daniel 9: (KJV)
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


7wks + threescore +2wks =


7+20+20+20+2= 69wks = 483 days= 483 yrs


Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem (457 BC) unto the Coming of Jesus shall be 483 Years (NOTE: This comes to 26/27AD, the approximate time that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times (Wall rebuilt in 404-408BC).


Daniel 9: (KJV)
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


20+20+20+2=62wks = 434 days= 434yrs


And after 434 Years shall Jesus be cut off (434 Years from when the wall was rebuilt assuming 404BC comes to the year 30/31AD, the approximate time Jesus was crucified), but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


*Now we can address our initial verse in question.


Daniel 9 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week


Romans 15: (KJV)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:


and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (in 30AD Jesus sacrificed himself putting an end to all Sacrificial laws and causing sacrifice to cease. Seeing that the beginning of the last week was around 26/27AD and the end of the last week will be around 33/34AD, this is in the middle or midst of the week), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


I know its long, I tried to make it understandable for everyone. Again some will reject it. It makes perfect sense how this could have already taken place just by allowing scripture to interpret itself and seeing how Christ was the Messiah, and how he was crucified and caused the sacrifices and the oblation to cease. Note it doesn't say laws. If this is talking about something that will happen it doesn't make sense because we do not perform any sacrifices.

ob·la·tion
noun
a thing presented or offered to God or a god.
synonyms: religious offering, offering, sacrifice, peace offering, burnt offering, gift of thanks, first fruits, libation
"he poured the first oblation to the household gods"


Disclaimer: Please study this for yourself as this was a very very quick explanation, and only of a few verses. This book has other prophesies that can also be understood if we allow scripture to interpret itself. You can confirm the events yourself in history to verify the approximate dates provided, etc.
 
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LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
18
#10
Ok, so I briefly explained a small piece of Daniel. Now, I want to present something also found in Daniel. Again, ask God for guidance and understanding when reading this book.

This is a very, very quick presentation of what Daniel is referring too when it mentions a stone was cut by no human hand.

Disclaimer: Please read for yourself and let The Bible interpret itself with scripture.


It is understood that Christ is the rock. There are a lot of verses that indicate that, for example:


1 Corinthians 10: KJV
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


2 Samuel 22:32 ESV
“For who is God, but the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?"


Deuteronomy 32: 4 KJV
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.


Deuteronomy 32:18 ESV
You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you, and you forgot the God who gave you birth.


Psalms 118: 22
The stone which the builders rejected is become the chief corner-stone.


Isaiah 28
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.


OK, so we have established Christ is the rock, (stone)


Now lets look at


Daniel 2: (KJV)
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.


Daniel 2: KJV
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


The Son of Man Is Given Dominion

Daniel 7: KJV
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Christ will destroy those kingdoms and his will be everlasting.


This is just part of that whole prophecy, I just wanted to emphasize that the stone it was talking about is actually referring to Christ. The other parts of that prophecy come together as well but I wont go into that now.