Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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The goal is perfection but man is not able to reach such high levels, though some are close, possibly Paul himself. We are commanded to be perfect as He is perfect, but just because we cannot attain it, does not mean we should just become innert, passive, and beign persons.
The forgiveness of sin makes one righeous, but we continually sin and need forgiveness.

And now we have arrived at the truth. :)

We are those who PRACTICE Righteousness, and if we continue to Practice we will get better at it.

That is what we call, OUR CHRISTIAN WALK. It is what being Saved produces in us.

And every time we think we are really getting this Christian Walk down, GOD opens our eyes, and shows us another area we need to work on.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And now we have arrived at the truth. :)

We are those who PRACTICE Righteousness, and if we continue to Practice we will get better at it.

That is what we call, OUR CHRISTIAN WALK. It is what being Saved produces in us.

And every time we think we are really getting this Christian Walk down, GOD opens our eyes, and shows us another area we need to work on.
Amen

Also known as being perfected in Christ
Also known as spiritual maturity
Also known as being sanctified

etc etc etc
 

VCO

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Paul disagrees with you in Rom 5:18. The justification was life to all men. The other texts I quoted also states it was to all men. I Cor 15:12-22 does not use the word, but is describing the LIFE that was given to all men through Christ's resurrection.

Actually all men have faith as well, but I'm sure you will change that as well.
But in any case you need to brush up some more on your understanding of the Incarnation, what it accomplished for us. YOu need to brush up on just what Christ accomplished for us, since it does not include saving us INTO A RELATIONSHIP.
ALMOST RIGHT, I would have stated it, "The availability of Justification was for all men."

The price Christ paid on the Cross was for all of mankind's sin. BUT this is still ONE sin that was not paid for on the Cross.

In my opinion, it is the only sin anyone will ever go to Hell for.

That sin is REJECTION of what the Holy Spirit is trying to do in one's heart.

The Holy Spirit is trying to get all men to Believe and Receive Jesus Christ the CREATOR as LORD, which means Master.

Mark 3:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

Romans 1:19-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,

Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess (not just profess) with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

1 John 2:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
 

Cassian

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And now we have arrived at the truth. :)

We are those who PRACTICE Righteousness, and if we continue to Practice we will get better at it.

That is what we call, OUR CHRISTIAN WALK. It is what being Saved produces in us.

And every time we think we are really getting this Christian Walk down, GOD opens our eyes, and shows us another area we need to work on.
That is what salvation consists. Our living out our faith. Living according to the precepts of God.
This is why many who use the phrase, lose salvation, are confused, because one does not lose salvation. We lose faith and without faith one cannot be saved. One looses the inheritance that awaits those that have been faithful, endured to the end.
 

Cassian

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ALMOST RIGHT, I would have stated it, "The availability of Justification was for all men."
Hardly, it made our justification possible by faith, however the justification Christ did was for the world, He reconciled the world to God. II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25. Christ saved us from death and sin. Every single human being will be raised on the last day. I Cor 15:22, I Cor 15:53.

The price Christ paid on the Cross was for all of mankind's sin. BUT this is still ONE sin that was not paid for on the Cross.
He atoned for sin. He made it possible for sin to be forgiven through His sacrifice. But without the resurrection even the sacrifice is null and void. I Cor 15:17 tells you very clearly that if Christ is not raised, then neither are the dead, and ones faith is in vain. Faith does not grant physical life, only Christ can do that, which He did by His Incarnation and resurrection.

In my opinion, it is the only sin anyone will ever go to Hell for.
Any sin that is against his will, if not forgiven will be accounted against one.

That sin is REJECTION of what the Holy Spirit is trying to do in one's heart.
that is only one sin, but sinning, rebellion against Christ by many different kinds of sin, is rejection of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is trying to get all men to Believe and Receive Jesus Christ the CREATOR as LORD, which means Master.
j Agreed, that is why Christ came Incarnated, to save mankind from death and sin. God cannot have a relationship with man who has not eternal existence. Man needed life first, then God and man could be reunited in a relationahip of love and obedience.

Mark 3:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

Romans 1:19-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
Agreed.

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
one has the RIGHT to be a child of God, but if one does not remain, does not abide, does not endure, one has no right to be a child of God.

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,
qualified again. If you receive Him, yoiu must also CONTINUE to live in Him. When one no longer lives in Christ, one cannot be saved.

Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]that if you confess (not just profess) with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
conditional again. If you remain faithful you will be saved. It never says you have been saved.

1 John 2:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]The one who says he remains in Him should walk just as He walked.
conditional again, with the word , Should, One may not walk any longer thus does not remain.

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
There you have a clear statement that destroys, saved ONLY be faith, and even saved at the moment of faith. It is all conditional, one must practice righteousness if you desire to attain eternal life with Christ.
 

VCO

Senior Member
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Amen

Also known as being perfected in Christ
Also known as spiritual maturity
Also known as being sanctified

etc etc etc
But not known as getting one's self SAVED.

Those are the natural bi-products of having BEEN SAVED. :)
 

Cassian

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... I personally showed you 24 verses in this thread... and you still have the audacity to continue stating that that we have not proven by Scripture...

Also, your history lessons need to be cited, because regulating this misinformation is beginning to get obnoxious.
I went over the list again. There is not a single text that states that one is saved by faith only.
There is no text that says one is saved finitely upon the moment of belief.
 

Cassian

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Romans 5:8-11 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.


Paul wrote this, now what part of we do you not understand ? ? ? Are you telling me that you do not think there was ever a time that you were an enemy of GOD? OH MY, that is what you believe isn't it?
The specific WE is being addressed to beleivers. However, believers are only a sub-group of mankind that Christ justified, reconciled through His Blood, All men, every single human being was reconciled. Actually even the world was reconciled by Christ through His Blood, Col 1:20.
Christ came to reverse the fall. Christ came to reverse death, give life to the world. Christ is called the Savior of the world, John 4:42, I John 4:14. Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14.

I think you are more than a little confused on the Incarnation and resurrection and what Christ accomplished for man.
It is why all Christians have always believed in the resurrection of the dead. How do you think Christ is able to raise all the dead? John 6;39 states that all things given to him, Col 1:15-20 will be raised on the last day and He will lose none. Satan has been defeated, he no longer controls man through the power of death.
 

VCO

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Hardly, it made our justification possible by faith, however the justification Christ did was for the world, He reconciled the world to God. II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 3:23-25. Christ saved us from death and sin. Every single human being will be raised on the last day. I Cor 15:22, I Cor 15:53.

. . .

There you have a clear statement that destroys, saved ONLY be faith, and even saved at the moment of faith. It is all conditional, one must practice righteousness if you desire to attain eternal life with Christ.



Oh Cassian, just when I had hope for you. Be patient and read these verses.

Revelation 20:4-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. (those are the Bride of Christ OT & NT saints) Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God (those are the Tribulation saints), who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. (those are the unbelievers of ALL TIME.) This is the first resurrection.


Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

AND when DID HE write the names of us whom HE SAVED into the Book of LIFE?

Revelation 13:8 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him (Anti-Christ), every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.

OH, OH, HE wrote our names down as SAVED from the foundation of the world.

1 John 3:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Daniel 12:2 (ASV)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

John 3:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

SEE IT? THAT IS WHAT WE WERE SAVED FROM, but it only applies to those who have RECEIVED HIM AS LORD.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
A contradicting statement if there ever was one.
It's not contradicting at all....it is simply saying that a true conversion will be evident.... ie: "you will know them by their fruit". However, only God knows the transaction He makes with a persons heart. We are to work out OUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling.
 

VCO

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HAPPY RESURRECTION SUNDAY, EVERYONE.
 

Cassian

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But not known as getting one's self SAVED.

Those are the natural bi-products of having BEEN SAVED. :)
They are the by products of one's faith, of having been justified by faith, entering into Christ so one can be saved.
 

Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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NO, those are what genuine Salvation produces in the believer.
faith, not salvation. If one loses faith, one will not inherit the promise OF salvation.
You have not yet produced a text that says upon one's first moment of belief, one has attained salvation, or has been saved. They are all conditional with the promise awaiting, based on one's faith.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

Parphrased that means:

IF YOU ARE SAVED then with REVERENT FEAR of a HOLY FATHER the Disciplines HIS CHILDREN, continue to act like you are one of HIS.


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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They are the by products of one's faith, of having been justified by faith, entering into Christ so one can be saved.

Man you really got a heavy dose of that works righteousness brainwashing.

Isaiah 45:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Israel has been saved by the LORD With an everlasting salvation; You will not be put to shame or humiliated To all eternity.

AND WE HAVE A BETTER COVENANT.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] “I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life.

John 5:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24[/SUP] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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also better known as being saved.
No. this would be in error.

One who is not already saved, born of God, and given Gods spirit can not do any of those things. I can not start to act like my father, obey my father, and grow in the love of my father, if I am not the fathers son.