Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[KenAllan]

Jn 3:16-----------believing>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Lk 13:3,5---------repenting>>>>>>>>>>>>saves/not perish
Mt 10:32,33------confession>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Mk 16:16---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

This is very true SeaBass but where in these verses does the Holy Spirit say we are to do these over and over and over again every single hour or every day? It does not say we do these over and over again. We are told to do these things only ONCE! Not over and over again like you teach.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

When you believe in your Heart and when you confess with your mouth you will receive Salvation! This only needs to happen once to receive Salvation. No where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit say we need to do this every day to retain our Salvation!

1 John 4:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Ephesians 2:7-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.


We show the World we are True Christians by Believing in Jesus Christ, by confessing that Jesus Christ is God, by repenting of our sins, and by being Baptized. But these are all ONE time events! We do not need to keep doing these over and over again like SeaBass wants us to do. SeaBass has proven that he is a False Prophet trying to deceive us into doing "Works" to justify his PRIDE in his Works.

Salvation is a free Gift that does not need to be worked for. Once we receive this free Gift we can never lose this free Gift! We receive this Gift by Faith not by Works like SeaBass teaches.

Jn 3:16-----------believing>>>>>>>>>>>>saves. Once we believe that Jesus Christ is God we do not forget this later on and need to re-believe in Jesus Christ again!

Mt 10:32,33------confession>>>>>>>>>>>saves. Once we confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is God we do not recant our confession and need to re-confess again!

Mk 16:16---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves. Once we are Baptized we do not need to be re-Baptized over and over again like SeaBass teaches!

Do you see how SeaBass is trying to Work for his Salvation? All these things he says are one time events in the life of every True Christian. So why does SeaBass want us to do these things over and over again forever? Could it be because he is a False Prophet doing the will of his father Satan?

Now as far as repenting, yes we are to repent and ask Jesus Christ to forgive us of all our sins everyday.

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

SeaBass is trying to WORK for his Salvation and he wants to deceive people into following him instead of following God. SeaBass is a False Prophet used by Satan to deceive us into rejecting what the Holy Spirit teaches in the Scriptures to follow his god who is Satan.

Reject everything SeaBass says, read the Scriptures, listen to what the Holy Spirit says, do not listen to SeaBass.

John 14:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--
[SUP]17 [/SUP] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Truth. Only He has all the Truth. SeaBass has no truth. All Truths come only from God. There are NO Truths outside of God and the Scriptures! Reject what SeaBass teaches and turn to the Holy Spirit for the Truth. The Holy Spirit will never lie to you. Men will lie to you to make you captives to their sins.

 

[SeaBass]

Jn 3:16-----------believing>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Lk 13:3,5---------repenting>>>>>>>>>>>>saves/not perish
Mt 10:32,33------confession>>>>>>>>>>>saves
Mk 16:16---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

This is very true SeaBass....

...so it's true that 'belief only' does not save.

..... but where in these verses does the Holy Spirit say we are to do these over and over and over again every single hour or every day? It does not say we do these over and over again. We are told to do these things only ONCE! Not over and over again like you teach.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

When you believe in your Heart and when you confess with your mouth you will receive Salvation! This only needs to happen once to receive Salvation. No where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit say we need to do this every day to retain our Salvation!

1 John 4:1
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Ephesians 2:7-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.


We show the World we are True Christians by Believing in Jesus Christ, by confessing that Jesus Christ is God, by repenting of our sins, and by being Baptized. But these are all ONE time events! We do not need to keep doing these over and over again like SeaBass wants us to do. SeaBass has proven that he is a False Prophet trying to deceive us into doing "Works" to justify his PRIDE in his Works.

Salvation is a free Gift that does not need to be worked for. Once we receive this free Gift we can never lose this free Gift! We receive this Gift by Faith not by Works like SeaBass teaches.

Jn 3:16-----------believing>>>>>>>>>>>>saves. Once we believe that Jesus Christ is God we do not forget this later on and need to re-believe in Jesus Christ again!

Mt 10:32,33------confession>>>>>>>>>>>saves. Once we confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is God we do not recant our confession and need to re-confess again!

Mk 16:16---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>saves. Once we are Baptized we do not need to be re-Baptized over and over again like SeaBass teaches!

Do you see how SeaBass is trying to Work for his Salvation? All these things he says are one time events in the life of every True Christian. So why does SeaBass want us to do these things over and over again forever? Could it be because he is a False Prophet doing the will of his father Satan?

Now as far as repenting, yes we are to repent and ask Jesus Christ to forgive us of all our sins everyday.

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

SeaBass is trying to WORK for his Salvation and he wants to deceive people into following him instead of following God. SeaBass is a False Prophet used by Satan to deceive us into rejecting what the Holy Spirit teaches in the Scriptures to follow his god who is Satan.

Reject everything SeaBass says, read the Scriptures, listen to what the Holy Spirit says, do not listen to SeaBass.

John 14:16-17
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--
[SUP]17 [/SUP] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Truth. Only He has all the Truth. SeaBass has no truth. All Truths come only from God. There are NO Truths outside of God and the Scriptures! Reject what SeaBass teaches and turn to the Holy Spirit for the Truth. The Holy Spirit will never lie to you. Men will lie to you to make you captives to their sins.

---In many places the verb believe is in the present tense denoting that believing is something one begins and continues to believe. One cannot believe once then quit believing and still be saved.

---You admitted repentance is not something done just once.

---when one confesses (Mt 10:32,33; Rom 10:9,10) one is acknowledging that Christ is the only begotten Son of God risen from the dead. He is acknowledging the truth of the gospel, the authority of Christ. One does not make a confession just once then forget about it. A Christian makes this confession/profession everyday of his life as shown by how he lives..."They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." Tts 1:16...one's profession is lived out in his works day to day and not something done just once.
Heb 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Heb 10:23 "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised. " So confession, as believing, is not done once but is something started and must be CONTINUED.


---One needs to be baptized just once to have his sins washed away by the blood of Christ. Then the Christian must continue to walk in the light to have his sins continued to be cleansed away by the blood of Christ, 1 Jn 1:7. Christ's blood does not wash away sins at the point of baptism and then stops, but CONTINUES to wash away sins as long as the Christian continues to walk in the light.

---Jn 14:16,17 was a promise made the apostles, not any one today. The promise of the Comforter was to the apostles, not you or me.

---you posted "SeaBass is trying to WORK for his Salvation and he wants to deceive people into following him instead of following God."
Where have I asked any one to follow me? People better follow God's word and quit following man-made teachings.

---once again, you failed to prove your man-made theology.

 

[know1]

Belief, repentance, confession, baptism are not the NT meaning of "works" when it comes to salvation.

That is your personal and altered definition, for the sake of your false gospel of works, which is not supported by the NT.

Works of faith are very much supported by the new testament.
Romans, Hebrews, and James clearly state that faith without works is dead, and all know that salvation is by grace through faith.
But faith is dead if there is a lack of works or works that didn't correspond to what the person believed.
In order to walk on water, God and faith demands you stick your foot out and put it on the water. That is a work.
Then God's word and your faith will provide the power to hold you up as you continue to walk.
This is faith in God and His word with works that justifies.

 

[mailmandan]

But if one does NOT HAVE good works that come out of faith, can that person say they have a saving faith?

Exactly. If a person says/claims they have faith but they have no works, can that faith save him? (James 2:14). What kind of faith is that? An empty profession of faith/dead faith, not saving faith. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit would demonstrate that there is no root. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine saving faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Eph 2:10; Matt 25:31-46 prove that one who is a Christian MUST do good works, else be lost.

MUST or WILL?

So works have an essential, necessary role in salvation in the life of the Christian.

Works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. When you say works have an essential, necessary role in salvation, you make works the means or basis of receiving salvation, which is salvation by works.

 

[SarahM777]

Exactly. If a person says/claims they have faith but they have no works, can that faith save him? (James 2:14). What kind of faith is that? An empty profession of faith/dead faith, not saving faith. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit would demonstrate that there is no root. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine saving faith, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.

The whole thing comes back to FAITH,the writer of Hebrews wrote this

Hebrews 6

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

How can one even repent WITHOUT FAITH and have it be pleasing to God?

 

[p_rehbein]

Reading though this thread, I'm reminded of the title of a movie from some time ago..........

Wagging the Dog

 

[mailmandan]

Reading though this thread, I'm reminded of the title of a movie from some time ago..........

Wagging the Dog

People who teach salvation by works have the tail wagging the dog, the cart before the horse.

 

[Jabberjaw]

The whole thing comes back to FAITH,the writer of Hebrews wrote this

Hebrews 6

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

How can one even repent WITHOUT FAITH and have it be pleasing to God?

Notice it does not say "And without 'faith only' it is impossible to please God"

That's like saying "without nails it is impossible to build a house" what about the wood? what about the glass? what about all the other materials "in the plan" needed to the end? the nails are only a means to the end called for in the "plan", but without them it is impossible to build a house, you cannot step outside the plan.

So too, "Faith" is a means to the end, it is a requirement, part of the plan, without faith the end cannot be, but it is not the "only" requirement of "the plan" to the end as so many here make it to be.

 

[KenAllan]

What everyone is missing is Faith comes first by believing and works of Faith come later because we believe in Jesus Christ! We do works because we have Salvation! We do not do "Works" to receive Salvation!

What SeaBass and others are teaching is nothing new. Even the Roman Catholic Church teaches Salvation by "Works".

What we do we do because we Love God, not because SeaBass and others DEMAND we do them. If you are not doing the works of Faith in Love they what you receive is a debt that is due to you.

If you are doing works of Faith because you Love Jesus Christ and want to help others then what you receive is a reward, a Golden Crown in Heaven.

There is a big difference between what God says we are to do and what SeaBass and others DEMAND what we do!

If you do not do the works of Faith in Love then you are just wasting your time! If you do the Works because you say they are mandatory then you will not receive any rewards for doing them!

Without Love your Works are worthless!

 

[SarahM777]

Notice it does not say "And without 'faith only' it is impossible to please God"

That's like saying "without nails it is impossible to build a house" what about the wood? what about the glass? what about all the other materials "in the plan" needed to the end? the nails are only a means to the end called for in the "plan", but without them it is impossible to build a house, you cannot step outside the plan.

So too, "Faith" is a means to the end, it is a requirement, part of the plan, without faith the end cannot be, but it is not the "only" requirement of "the plan" to the end as so many here make it to be.

Where did I ever say Biblical saving faith is a do nothing faith? A do nothing faith is actually UNBELIEF.

 

[mailmandan]

Where did I ever say Biblical saving faith is a do nothing faith? A do nothing faith is actually UNBELIEF.

Amen! We are saved by grace through faith based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ" alone and not by the merits of our works that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1) yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24).

 

[MikeHenderson]

Its interesting that every time Satan hears of Faith only he gets so mad he sends his children out to fight for him.

Look at the thief on the cross next to Jesus. It was by Faith only that he believed in Jesus Christ and Faith only that he entered into Heaven. This person could not do WORKS to receive Faith like so many evil people teach.

It was Faith and only by Faith did he enter into Heaven. He did not get Baptized and he had no "desire" to be Baptized like the Roman Catholics teach!

Today we are living under Faith and Grace! Not under Works!

 

[Sirk]

Where did I ever say Biblical saving faith is a do nothing faith? A do nothing faith is actually UNBELIEF.

these people don't get this:...... THROUGH HIM and for HIS namesake, WE RECIEVED GRACE to call people from among the gentiles to OBEDIENCE THAT COMES FROM FAITH. Romans 1:5

 

[SarahM777]

these people don't get this:...... THROUGH HIM and for HIS namesake, WE RECIEVED GRACE to call people from among the gentiles to OBEDIENCE THAT COMES FROM FAITH. Romans 1:5

But complete the passage. (Too often what happens is that too many will take the passage OUT OF CONTEXT and force it mean it to mean something other then what it truly saying)

Romans 1

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[SUP][c][/SUP] faith for his name’s sake. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you also are among those Gentiles who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. [SUP]7 [/SUP]To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. [SUP]9 [/SUP]God, whom I serve in my spirit in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you [SUP]10 [/SUP]in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— [SUP]12 [/SUP]that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other’s faith. [SUP]13 [/SUP]I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters,[SUP][d][/SUP] that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. [SUP]15 [/SUP]That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[SUP][e][/SUP] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[SUP][f][/SUP]

 

[Bautista]

Stop feeding seabass the troll please.

 

[KenAllan]

Romans 1:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, " BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

This was the rallying call of the Protestants when God led His Children out of the Corrupted Roman Catholic Church and is still the same for today!

Clearly the Righteous will live BY Faith, not by Works and then Faith like SeaBass and the others teach.

There is NO middle SeaBass. There is the True Faith that produces true works from Faith, and there is the false doing works first to receive faith. These are the only two SeaBass there is no third like you teach. Therefore you are not in the middle you are way over to the Works produce faith side.

God destroyed the Roman Catholic Church for what it taught and God will destroy all those today for the lies they teach. You are not fighting against me SeaBass, you are actually fighting against the Holy Spirit and His Truths. God told us in the last days there will be people who have fallen away from God to follow their lusts instead.

2 Peter 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP] that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts

2 Peter 3:14-18
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
[SUP]18 [/SUP] but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

Paul clearly says the "untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."

Even Paul in his days had people like SeaBass twisting the Scriptures according to their own lusts.

 

[mailmandan]

You employ a psychological gimmick to trick yourself into thinking your faith is stronger than it is.

It's all church of Christ smoke and mirrors. In John 6:29, Jesus said this is the work of God/what God requires that you believe in Him whom He sent. (Not these are the works/plural of God). Those who believe in Him have already repented in the process of "changing their mind" and choosing to believe in Him. The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart "TOGETHER" (Romans 10:8). Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Water baptism FOLLOWS repentance unto life/believes unto righteousness/confession made unto salvation (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; Romans 10:9,10).

 

[SeaBass]

MUST or WILL?

MUST have good works, no choice in the matter. God 'before ordained' Christians to walk in good works EPh 2:10. One cannot become a Christian, not have good works and expect to be saved....no good works by the Christian = lost for those disciples without goos works will be judged to be lost, Mt 25.

Works are the fruit of salvation but not the root of it. When you say works have an essential, necessary role in salvation, you make works the means or basis of receiving salvation, which is salvation by works.

Works are man's role in his salvation.....obedient works to become saved and obedient works/good works to remain saved.

 

[SeaBass]

The whole thing comes back to FAITH,the writer of Hebrews wrote this

Hebrews 6

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

How can one even repent WITHOUT FAITH and have it be pleasing to God?

Is "faith alone" (faith void of works) pleasing to God? No. "Faith alone" would be void of the work of repentance, so how can faith void of repentance be pleasing to God? It cannot be.