Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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Mar 12, 2014
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YES!

Look at the Thief on the cross next to Jesus Christ. He did no "Works" , he was NOT Baptized! But yet Jesus said he would be with Him! Jesus Himself said the thief was a True Christian! All the Thief did was believe Jesus was God and confessed that Jesus was God!

This is ALL that is needed to enter into Heaven! Otherwise if it was not then Jesus would have released the thief from the cross and sent him out to do "WORKS"!
---The thief is not an example of NT salvation, he lived under the OT law and not accountable to Acts 2:38; Mk 16:16 as we are today. Why avoid using NT examples of salvation as Peter's hearers in Acts 2 or the eunuch, Simon, Samaritans Acts 8?
---what verse states the thief was never baptized
---the thief was repentant for his deeds
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Amen. . .faith is righteousness.

But it is not the works of faith which save (Eph 2:8-9).
Righteousness is right DOING.

So faith is right DOING, a righteous WORK.

Faith is a work else it is DEAD.

If one is not doing the works of faith, which is doing righteousness, then he is doing unrighteousness and doing unrighteousness does not save.

Acts 10:35 he that WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is accepted with God, NOT he that worketh unrighteousness is accepted with God.
 
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Mar 12, 2014
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Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I don't know about you, but that's pretty clear English to me. And if I can't take it alone and run with it, then it is flat out a lie of the devil.
I state again, if this verse needs help from other verses of the bible to make it the whole council of God, then it is a lie, for it says, I shall be saved. Not maybe or might or if I am baptized or even if I repent. It is either the TRUTH AS IS, or it is a partial truth which constitutes it as a lie.
So you are saying one does not need the whole counsel of God, that one can just cherry pick one verse out of the entire bible ignoring the rest????

If you can cherry pick, then why can't another person cherry pick out Rom 8:24 and claim salvation is by "hope only" and claim no belief, no repentance, no confession or baptism for remission of sins required?

One runs into contradictions not considering all the counsel of God.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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For by grace you have been saved through faith,
& that not of yourselves,
not of works lest anyone should boast.
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works.
If salvation is "not of ANY works" does that mean one can become a Christian, not ever do ANY works at all yet still be saved?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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If there is some grocery list of works to do in order to be saved, some bunch of hoops to jump through,
how does one explain that time after time in too many verses to even be accepted here in one post, why are there so many verses which offer salvation for nothing besides faith/belief/trusting in the Savior?
Would that make the Lord a false advertiser?
So one does not have to jump through the hoop of belief, Jn 8:24 to be saved?
Not jump through the hoop of repenting Lk 13:,3,5 to be saved?
Not jump through the hoop of confession Mt 10:32,33 to be saved?
Not jump through the hoop of submitting to baptism for remission of sins, Acts 2:38 to be saved?
 

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
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yes but the question is where does the faith you possess or exercise come from?

1) If it is a gift given by God, then it is a work that is NOT OF YOURSELVES, as Ephesians emphasises, which therefore conclusively leaves that faith is a work by God that is given freely to me and you. To receive this gift, is no work of yours but receiving this gift is evident that your work of believing is simply a by product of Gods working in you.
2) If you possess faith and always have possessed faith then it does become your work solely and only. But contrary to scriptures, every good gift is given by God. Therefore a work that God does, and then freely bestows upon sinners.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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There can only be one essential requirement on man for salvation, for salvation is offered so many abundant times just for believing/faith/trust.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

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Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER][/FONT]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law ands the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[All them who believe, rules out any other thing essential besides believe.]

for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

[EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES rules out anything essential added to faith.]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
You just cherry pick out verse that mention "belief" and assume and wrongly claim belief only saves while ignoring all other verses that require repentance, confession and submitting to baptism.

Just as Know 1 picks out Rom 10:9 claiming belief and confession saves while repentance of baptism for remission of sins have nothing to do with salvation.

You must take off your "belief only" blinders so you can examine all the counsel of God when determining everything that saves.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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yes but the question is where does the faith you possess or exercise come from?

1) If it is a gift given by God, then it is a work that is NOT OF YOURSELVES, as Ephesians emphasises, which therefore conclusively leaves that faith is a work by God that is given freely to me and you. To receive this gift, is no work of yours but receiving this gift is evident that your work of believing is simply a by product of Gods working in you.
2) If you possess faith and always have possessed faith then it does become your work solely and only. But contrary to scriptures, every good gift is given by God. Therefore a work that God does, and then freely bestows upon sinners.
Rom 10:17 faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a gift in the sense God has allowed men to have faith. God alone does not unconditionally determine for men which men will or will not have faith putting moral culpability upon God. Faith does not come by a random choice of God separate and apart from hearing the word.

In Eph 2:8 salvation is not of yourselves.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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You still are teaching Salvation BY Works SeaBass. Show me the Works that the Thief did on the cross to earn Salvation SeaBass. All the Thief did was believed that Jesus Christ IS God and confess with his mouth that Jesus Christ was God.

These are ONE time events. We do not need to keep doing these over and over again.

Also where in the Scriptures did the Thief get off the cross to be Baptized SeaBass? If Baptism was mandatory like you teach then why did Jesus Christ say the Thief would be with Him?

Through our Love for Jesus Christ we do works of Love because we Love Jesus Christ.

You SeaBass through your PRIDE do works that you teach are mandatory because you are still under the Law. Doing works that are mandatory is still trying to keep the Law that Paul proved is a waste of time SeaBass.

If you are NOT doing works through Love then you are wasting your time SeaBass.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.


Without Love SeaBass you are nothing. You are teaching works are mandatory because you have no Love Seabass. If you do works because its demanded and mandatory then you are not doing works in Love. God does NOT want us to do works because you demand we do works SeaBass. God wants us to do works because we Love God, not because its demanded.

Without Love SeaBass you are nothing. Everything you teach is without Love SeaBass. Everything you do is without Love SeaBass. Its your Pride in your works and not Love for God that you demand everybody has to follow your teachings SeaBass.

I do not see you exhorting people into doing "Works" in Love. All i see is your Pride insisting Christians do it your way and not God's way SeaBass. You can say all you want about Works being Mandatory. But if Works are done BECAUSE they are mandatory then these Works are NOT done in Love, and without Love you are nothing more than a sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Seabass, you have need to go back and learn what Jesus Chrisst teaches about faith, then what Paul teaches. Faith in Jesus Christ is works. Faith cannot be without works. Study the New Testament at least, and you will be calmed on the qustion. God bless you.


Can a Christian (one with faith) not have good works and his faith only (void of good works) save him anyway?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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It is in the bible where people are told to save themselves, save thyself, cleanse yourselves, etc. Not accepting that man has a role in his own salvation in choosing to obey Christ (Heb 5:9) leads to contradictions, false theologies.
No one can save himself. Salvation is the work of Christ and of Him alone. We can 'work out our salvation' but only because He is 'working within us to will and do of His good pleasure.(Phil 2.1-23).'
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Rom 10:17 faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a gift in the sense God has allowed men to have faith. God alone does not unconditionally determine for men which men will or will not have faith putting moral culpability upon God. Faith does not come by a random choice of God separate and apart from hearing the word.

In Eph 2:8 salvation is not of yourselves.
You cannot grasp John 3:18-21.

God does not allow men to have faith. God created man to have faith. God created man with a need to depend upon God. God continues to supply in great abundance all that man needs to come to a saving knowledge of Christ. Yet many turn away preferring the darkness because their deeds are evil. The truth is only hidden from those who refuse to see it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Seabass, you have need to go back and learn what Jesus Chrisst teaches about faith, then what Paul teaches. Faith in Jesus Christ is works. Faith cannot be without works. Study the New Testament at least, and you will be calmed on the qustion. God bless you.
Keeping in mind that it is not the works which save. . .
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The mere fact that you feel it incumben upone yourself to even mention this demonstrates your lack of understanding of your family in Christ who know to do their best to be children of obedience.

I am afraid that accusation is yet there, not veiled at all. All worrks after having received the gift of faith is strictly the normal reaction of loving children to an even more loving Father.

You need not continuye casting that shadow of accusation by bringing it up every time works are mentioned. Where on earth do you suppose our heavenly rewards will be earned if not by works of faith?

Keeping in mind that it is not the works which save. . .
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Rom 10:17 faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.

Faith is a gift in the sense God has allowed men to have faith
.
Oh, that's rich. . .a gift is not a gift. . .not according to the NT.

That's a new angle in wrestling the word of God to one's own destruction (2Pe 3:16).

God alone does not unconditionally determine for men which men will or will not have faith
putting moral culpability upon God.
God not determining who has faith does not solve the "moral culpability of God" problem.

For God determines to create those whom he knows will choose to go to hell.
What about the "moral culpability" of that decision, according to your reasoning.

It is your faulty thinking, not the sovereignty of God, which creates your "moral culpability of God" problem.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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---The thief is not an example of NT salvation, he lived under the OT law
as i've pointed out to you before,

Christ died before this thief did.

Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
(John 19:31-33)

that makes him dying in a temporal sense after Jesus gave Himself as an atonement for sin. after the temple veil was torn. at the beginning of the dispensation of grace, after the dispensation of law. (this is setting aside the point that Christ had already for a few years been going around proclaiming that the kingdom was at hand)

if you say this thief died under the law of Moses, then he was still an unjustified sinner unworthy of entering the kingdom, and you make Christ either a liar or an unjust judge when He told this man that he would be with Him in paradise - which reward He promised him purely on the basis of His confessed faith, not in any wise on the basis of a righteousness pertaining to law and works.
but you gotta have it that way in order to justify your works/water-reward based religion, doncha?
see where it gets you? blasphemy.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Can a Christian (one with faith) not have good works and his faith only (void of good works) save him anyway?
is Romans 4:5 scripture, yes or no?

how many hundreds of times does it have to be quoted to you before you hear it?

mercy is the Lord's prerogative, not SeaBass's. why can't you take Him at His word?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
SeaBass said:
There is a public confession the sinner must make (Mt 10:32,33;
Rom 10:9,10) before he can be saved.
Baloney. . . .

the gift of salvation is by nothing but the grace of God through faith (Eph 2:8-9),
which itself is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).
Christ: "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." Mt 10:32,33.
Rom 10:10 "...with the mouth confession is made UNTO salvation"
"Whosoever shall" is not "whosoever must. . .in order to be saved".

So your man-made faith only doctrine has you calling the words of Christ and Paul 'baloney'.
You're confusing your baloney with the words of Christ and Paul.
 
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Good works are produced by faith. Anyone teaching these works are somehow being under the law is under the law, for he still remains blind to thanksgiving being automatic to those saved.
Being not under the law means the NT people of God are not subject to the Mosaic regulations, for any reason.

They are subject only to Christ's law (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10) revealed in all the NT commands and exhortations.