Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Hi Sea,

You neglected to tell me the "works" that the thief on the cross did. You DO believe he was saved don't you?

It's because he didnt get the chance, so he didnt have to. Refer to Matthew 25:31-46. You are supposed to do good deeds to people. Jesus clearly states in Matthew 25:31-46 to those who did not do good works when the opportunity arised that they were going to hell.

The theif didn't have a chance so it wasn't necessary. However, we are alive for a long time, we have plenty of chances to help the poor, homeless, etc. etc.

 

[SeaBass]

let's actually read that:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.
(Revelation 2:26-28)

now i'm sorry if my eyes fail me, but did He say "he that overcomes will be saved" or did He say "he that overcomes will be given great rewards"

?

"he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Overcoming means keeping (present tense) Christ's works.

"Overcoming" is used a few times in Rev 2:

Verse 7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God"

No tree of life without first overcoming.

John Gill a Calvinists says of v26
and keepeth my works unto the end;
either of life, or of this church state, or of time, when Christ will personally appear, even at the end of the world; and by his works are meant......the works which are commanded, and required by Christ to be done by his people; as the public work of the ministry, by the preachers of the Gospel; and every private work, both internal and external, as the work of faith, the labour of love, and every act of obedience, which is constantly to be discharged. The Arabic version reads, "and keepeth my words and my works"; things both relating to doctrine and practice:

 

[BenFTW]

It's because he didnt get the chance, so he didnt have to. Refer to Matthew 25:31-46. You are supposed to do good deeds to people. Jesus clearly states in Matthew 25:31-46 to those who did not do good works when the opportunity arised that they were going to hell.

The theif didn't have a chance so it wasn't necessary. However, we are alive for a long time, we have plenty of chances to help the poor, homeless, etc. etc.

How many homeless people have you driven by or not stopped the car for, to go help them? Condemned! How many times have opportunities presented themselves to you and since the cash wasn't on you, you didn't help them? Why didn't you go out of your way and get cash from your bank and go back to them? Condemned! Why didn't you pay for that struggling mother's grocery bill in front of you in the market? Condemned! Shall I continue? Why when someone was seeking to be able to pay their rent, did you say, "Lets pray the Lord answer your need", instead of everyone pitching in to help out? Condemned!

Do you see how silly such a statement is? Good works or the lack there of, have no merit upon your salvation. They neither condemn you or save you, but they do have an importance. That is, determining your reward when we are judged. What of those with no good works, or hardly any? They ''shall be saved, yet even so by fire." Don't add upon the grace of God, what you are doing is saying that Jesus' sacrifice wasn't enough.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

How many homeless people have you driven by or not stopped the car for, to go help them? Condemned! How many times have opportunities presented themselves to you and since the cash wasn't on you, you didn't help them? Why didn't you go out of your way and get cash from your bank and go back to them? Condemned! Why didn't you pay for that struggling mother's grocery bill in front of you in the market? Condemned! Shall I continue? Why when someone was seeking to be able to pay their rent, did you say, "Lets pray the Lord answer your need", instead of everyone pitching in to help out? Condemned!

Do you see how silly such a statement is? Good works or the lack there of, have no merit upon your salvation. They neither condemn you or save you, but they do have an importance. That is, determining your reward when we are judged. What of those with no good works, or hardly any? They ''shall be saved, yet even so by fire." Don't add upon the grace of God, what you are doing is saying that Jesus' sacrifice wasn't enough.

First off I never did those things lol. Also, I don't want to brag, but I do help people all the time. Recently there was a guy at my College who couldn't pay for the rest of his food and coffee at Tim Hortons and I offered to pay it for him. He declined, so I offered again. He declined but was very appreciative of the offer.

And no Im not saying Jesus' sacrifice was not enough. I never said that. Jesus' sacrifice made it possible for us to repent for our sins. I never took that away.

However Jesus also in Matthew 5 told us how we should act specifically for when we are asked of help. To walk with people two miles, etc. etc. If works or good deeds did not matter, why would he raise this issue let alone talk about Matthew 25:31-46? If works didnt matter, then it wouldnt have been brought up.

Also, be reasonable. Sometimes you cant help everyone. But as long as you try instead of doing nothing then there is a big difference.

 

[BenFTW]

"he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Overcoming means keeping (present tense) Christ's works.<-----No it doesn't.

"Overcoming" is used a few times in Rev 2:

Verse 7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God"

No tree of life without first overcoming. The question is, "Who is he that overcomes?"

John Gill a Calvinists says of v26
and keepeth my works unto the end;
either of life, or of this church state, or of time, when Christ will personally appear, even at the end of the world; and by his works are meant......the works which are commanded, and required by Christ to be done by his people; as the public work of the ministry, by the preachers of the Gospel; and every private work, both internal and external, as the work of faith, the labour of love, and every act of obedience, which is constantly to be discharged. The Arabic version reads, "and keepeth my words and my works"; things both relating to doctrine and practice:

See what I wrote in red in your post? You have a works mindset, a works mentality. Who is the overcomer? Lets go to the Word.

[FONT=kepler-std !important]1 John 5:4-5[/FONT]

For whatever is born of God(that is us, born again children of God) overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world(?), but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God(!)?
Overcoming is not a work, its a belief. Belief in Jesus Christ, as clearly laid out in scripture. Again, enter His rest, SeaBass.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

See what I wrote in red in your post? You have a works mindset, a works mentality. Who is the overcomer? Lets go to the Word.

[FONT=kepler-std !important]1 John 5:4-5[/FONT]

For whatever is born of God(that is us, born again children of God) overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world(?), but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God(!)?
Overcoming is not a work, its a belief. Belief in Jesus Christ, as clearly laid out in scripture. Again, enter His rest, SeaBass.

You cant have faith without works to show for it. Read the following verses to prove my point.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



All are from KJV, web link - BIBLE VERSES ABOUT GOOD WORKS

 

[PennEd]

It's because he didnt get the chance, so he didnt have to. Refer to Matthew 25:31-46. You are supposed to do good deeds to people. Jesus clearly states in Matthew 25:31-46 to those who did not do good works when the opportunity arised that they were going to hell.

The theif didn't have a chance so it wasn't necessary. However, we are alive for a long time, we have plenty of chances to help the poor, homeless, etc. etc.

Think about it. In regards to Matthew 25:31-46. The thief not only didn't help the hungry, or poor, but stole from people! Why wasn't he listed among the goats? The "goats" that Jesus is referring to are those that DIDN"T accept Jesus, and are pleading their case. They lived their lives for themselves only, NOT for Jesus, His Gospel, or people they could have helped, similar to the rich man who stepped over Lazarus at his gate and ate sumptuously, after bowing their knee and confessing Jesus as Lord, AFTER death. They had the chance, maybe numerous chances, to accept Jesus and refused Him.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Think about it. In regards to Matthew 25:31-46. The thief not only didn't help the hungry, or poor, but stole from people! Why wasn't he listed among the goats? The "goats" that Jesus is referring to are those that DIDN"T accept Jesus, and are pleading their case. They lived their lives for themselves only, NOT for Jesus, His Gospel, or people they could have helped, similar to the rich man who stepped over Lazarus at his gate and ate sumptuously, after bowing their knee and confessing Jesus as Lord, AFTER death. They had the chance, maybe numerous chances, to accept Jesus and refused Him.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



Just to recap read that please. Like I said before, he had no chance to help after he repented. There is a big difference. For example, someone can repent at the last second before they die, and still go to Heaven. They had no chance to do good works however.

As you can se, works correlate with faith as in those verses state. You will do good works because you have faith in God. Also, "Love thy neighbour as thyself" is a commandment. In not doing good deeds for someone, you are in a way breaking that commandment unless you wanted to be treated the same way.

And yes, Matthew 25 is talking about people who were Christians who didnt do good works.

 

[dcontroversal]

1--The prodigal became dead spiritually and was not alive AGAIN until he returned to his father.
2--The works in 1 Cor 3 refer to converts.
3--But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: Falling /not falling is CONDITIONAL
4--one cannot be an enemyof Christ and be saved James 4:4
5--Matt 10:33 "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven"
6--those insin are "dead" Eph 2:5
7--as far as we know Solomon was lost.
8--David repented

Nice try, but twisted and incorrect

1. The Prodigal son was a son through the entire process and was only perceived dead..
2. 1st Corinthians 3 is unto saved, scripturally immersed church members and testify to the types of works found within the ranks of God's people.
3. Fall does not equate lost and is equivalent to a JUST MAN FALLING 7 TIMES YET RISING UP.
4. Paul said you could walk as an enemy as a saved child of God-->given to saved, scripturally immersed church members...you can look it up yourself..
5. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF<---after biblical salvation...ALL APOSTLES FORSOOK HIM AND SOME EVEN DENIED HIM YET WERE STILL SAVED..
6. Numerous men were cut loose for the destruction of the flesh so as the spirit would be saved in the day of judgment
7. Solomon LOST...I am gonna change your name to MR. TWISTY 2 ....If you believe that after reading the discourse between God and Solomon you prove you are a heretical teacher set on falsehoods...for real!
8. David paid the physical cost and under the LAW SHOULD HAVE BEEN STONED TO DEATH FOR MURDER AND ADULTRY.....yet you are blind to the price being paid by the death of the FIRSTBORN SON..

Keep preaching your works for salvation....the only people that Jesus states clearly that he does not know, and who end up being cast into the lake of fire are those who expect to enter heaven based upon their WORKS....

LORD, LORD have we not done.......

I NEVER KNEW YOU---->because you believe and teach a gospel of a (different kind) double cursed to hell...

Faith+Works for salvation=HELL/LAKE OF FIRE

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Nice try, but twisted and incorrect

1. The Prodigal son was a son through the entire process and was only perceived dead..
2. 1st Corinthians 3 is unto saved, scripturally immersed church members and testify to the types of works found within the ranks of God's people.
3. Fall does not equate lost and is equivalent to a JUST MAN FALLING 7 TIMES YET RISING UP.
4. Paul said you could walk as an enemy as a saved child of God-->given to saved, scripturally immersed church members...you can look it up yourself..
5. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF<---after biblical salvation...ALL APOSTLES FORSOOK HIM AND SOME EVEN DENIED HIM YET WERE STILL SAVED..
6. Numerous men were cut loose for the destruction of the flesh so as the spirit would be saved in the day of judgment
7. Solomon LOST...I am gonna change your name to MR. TWISTY 2 ....If you believe that after reading the discourse between God and Solomon you prove you are a heretical teacher set on falsehoods...for real!
8. David paid the physical cost and under the LAW SHOULD HAVE BEEN STONED TO DEATH FOR MURDER AND ADULTRY.....yet you are blind to the price being paid by the death of the FIRSTBORN SON..

Keep preaching your works for salvation....the only people that Jesus states clearly that he does not know, and who end up being cast into the lake of fire are those who expect to enter heaven based upon their WORKS....

LORD, LORD have we not done.......

I NEVER KNEW YOU---->because you believe and teach a gospel of a (different kind) double cursed to hell...

Faith+Works for salvation=HELL/LAKE OF FIRE

Faith requires works. Its that simple. Matthew 25:31-46 is not saying he never knew them literally, he means when he was those people you never helped. Of courrse God knows them, he knows every hair on their head.

Read the following Bible quotes, it proves that works are required. There is no arguement necessary.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

 

[BenFTW]

You cant have faith without works to show for it. Read the following verses to prove my point.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



All are from KJV, web link - BIBLE VERSES ABOUT GOOD WORKS

No one is saying that. You shall know them by their fruits. Regardless, works are not what save you. To say otherwise, is preaching another gospel. It is Jesus' shed blood that cleanses you and takes away the sins of the world (including yours). If you say good works are necessary, no they aren't. They are a necessary out-flowing of a regenerated spirit, necessary not for salvation but as a result of salvation they necessarily flow out of us(new nature, fruits of the Spirit, promptings of the Holy Spirit etc).

But, based upon a technicality(for these scenarios), works have no factor in a salvation of a soul (and not even just on a technicality, but for everyone, as works arent the root of salvation but fruit). If a man accepts Christ and goes into a coma, he can't work! If a man is lost at sea, he can't work! So, is this to say that men who can't work are then necessarily excluded and yet still saved? If that be the case, everyone better get lost! Otherwise, your salvation is at risk if you don't help others, or miss an opportunity that presented itself. Safer for the man in a coma, lost at sea or on a deserted island to be saved than a man surrounded with people.

See how silly such a doctrine is? If works can cost you your salvation, Jesus' work wasn't finished (or complete). He did one part and now you do your part. Salvation isn't a co-work, it is His work. He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, your good works aren't. “It is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” (Php 2:13) HE is the one doing the works.

From a site: If I was to summarize Grace Rules in a sentence, it’d be this: No one can live the Christian life except Christ. Our role is to trust Him to express Himself through us. Steve McVey asks us to imagine what would happen if the spirit of Mozart suddenly came into you. What would you want to do? You’d reach for the nearest piano and start playing! You would be thrilled by this amazing new ability. You would want to express your new talent often. Whenever people came around you’d say “watch this!” and dazzle them with your creative compositions.The good news is that someone greater than Mozart has moved in! The mystery of the gospel is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Step aside and let Him shine! I think it was Bill Johnson who said:
“He’s in you and he wants out! He’s in us like a river. He’s not in us like a lake.”

Read my previous posts, they answer this question in reference to works being done for our reward and not salvation. Our salvation isn't at risk, our rewards are(that is why they will be tested by fire, and remember the man was still saved, even so, by fire).

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

No one is saying that. You shall know them by their fruits. Regardless, works are not what save you. To say otherwise, is preaching another gospel. It is Jesus' shed blood that cleanses you and takes away the sins of the world (including yours). If you say good works are necessary, no they aren't. They are a necessary out-flowing of a regenerated spirit, necessary not for salvation but as a result of salvation they necessarily flow out of us(new nature, fruits of the Spirit, promptings of the Holy Spirit etc).

But, based upon a technicality(for these scenarios), works have no factor in a salvation of a soul (and not even just on a technicality, but for everyone, as works arent the root of salvation but fruit). If a man accepts Christ and goes into a coma, he can't work! If a man is lost at sea, he can't work! So, is this to say that men who can't work are then necessarily excluded and yet still saved? If that be the case, everyone better get lost! Otherwise, your salvation is at risk if you don't help others, or miss an opportunity that presented itself. Safer for the man in a coma, lost at sea or on a deserted island to be saved than a man surrounded with people.

See how silly such a doctrine is? If works can cost you your salvation, Jesus' work wasn't finished (or complete). He did one part and now you do your part. Salvation isn't a co-work, it is His work. He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, your good works aren't. “It is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” (Php 2:13) HE is the one doing the works.

From a site: If I was to summarize Grace Rules in a sentence, it’d be this: No one can live the Christian life except Christ. Our role is to trust Him to express Himself through us. Steve McVey asks us to imagine what would happen if the spirit of Mozart suddenly came into you. What would you want to do? You’d reach for the nearest piano and start playing! You would be thrilled by this amazing new ability. You would want to express your new talent often. Whenever people came around you’d say “watch this!” and dazzle them with your creative compositions.The good news is that someone greater than Mozart has moved in! The mystery of the gospel is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Step aside and let Him shine! I think it was Bill Johnson who said:
“He’s in you and he wants out! He’s in us like a river. He’s not in us like a lake.”

Read my previous posts, they answer this question in reference to works being done for our reward and not salvation. Our salvation isn't at risk, our rewards are(that is why they will be tested by fire, and remember the man was still saved, even so, by fire).

You just went against what the scriptures said. Good works are required, they are attributed to faith in all of those quotes. It says you are saved by grace and faith. Good works are part of faith. I will repost this again. Please read them carefully.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works


And like I said to you before, I will say it again. In Matthew 25:31-46 it shows clearly that good works are scenarios brought up. Just like the theif on the cross. Meaning, when the opportunity is there you do it, and "love thy neighbour as thyself". If they never have a chance do it it, that is different. Its very simple. Just read the scriptures, this isn't theology, theory, perspective etc. It's written in the Bible.

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith requires works. Its that simple. Matthew 25:31-46 is not saying he never knew them literally, he means when he was those people you never helped. Of courrse God knows them, he knows every hair on their head.

Read the following Bible quotes, it proves that works are required. There is no arguement necessary.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Faith produces works and biblical faith produces works......

which came first...

Noah built a ark or God preached the word to Noah and Noah had faith which produced the ark?

James is talking about our faith being seen by our works before MEN.....

How can you se my invisible faith?--->by my works

Works do not save, works do not help us get and or keep us saved.....works are evidence of being saved.

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Faith produces works and biblical faith produces works......

which came first...

Noah built a ark or God preached the word to Noah and Noah had faith which produced the ark?

James is talking about our faith being seen by our works before MEN.....

How can you se my invisible faith?--->by my works

Works do not save, works do not help us get and or keep us saved.....works are evidence of being saved.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

^-- faith without works is dead. What part of that does not make good works required to have faith?

 

[BenFTW]

You just went against what the scriptures said. Good works are required, they are attributed to faith in all of those quotes. It says you are saved by grace and faith. Good works are part of faith. I will repost this again. Please read them carefully.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

James 2:14-17 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (Read More...)

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works


And like I said to you before, I will say it again. In Matthew 25:31-46 it shows clearly that good works are scenarios brought up. Just like the theif on the cross. Meaning, when the opportunity is there you do it, and "love thy neighbour as thyself". If they never have a chance do it it, that is different. Its very simple. Just read the scriptures, this isn't theology, theory, perspective etc. It's written in the Bible.

Again, all of these verses have been covered in my previous posts, especially the one that has this link.
James 2:14-26 - Faith Without Works is Dead? | Till He Comes
That link will deal with your James verses, quite easily I might add.

Good works are not required, and those verses don't show that. They ask, "What profit does it a man to have faith and no works?" It isn't about salvation but about profits or "what benefit is it to a man to have faith and no works?" And this is in regards to a specific judgement, and that is of our works and our rewards. Not salvation but rewards. Faith is dead(useless) to a judgement that is based upon your works (to determine your reward).

All the verses you've posted are easily dealt with, and I have done so. Read previous posts.

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

^-- faith without works is dead. What part of that does not make good works required to have faith?

What part of works not required for biblical salvation don't you understand?....as I have already stated clearly that someone who is biblically born again will have biblical works!

 

[BenFTW]

James 2:18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

^-- faith without works is dead. What part of that does not make good works required to have faith?

Again, James 2:14-26 - Faith Without Works is Dead? | Till He Comes

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" Dead means useless. A body without a spirit is useless as faith without works is useless, useless in what James is referring to (that is, judgement based upon works and not faith/ as in rewards). Let me point out clearly, though a body is without a spirit, is still exists, it isnt non-existent. Its just useless. As with the faith, it still exists, it isnt non-existent, its just useless in what James is referring to (the judgement of determining what you shall be rewarded with based upon your works). Faith doesnt determine the reward, your works do. Hence "Faith without works is dead(useless)."

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

Again, all of these verses have been covered in my previous posts, especially the one that has this link.
James 2:14-26 - Faith Without Works is Dead? | Till He Comes
That link will deal with your James verses, quite easily I might add.

Good works are not required, and those verses don't show that. They ask, "What profit does it a man to have faith and no works?" It isn't about salvation but about profits or "what benefit is it to a man to have faith and no works?" And this is in regards to a specific judgement, and that is of our works and our rewards. Not salvation but rewards. Faith is dead(useless) to a judgement that is based upon your works (to determine your reward).

All the verses you've posted are easily dealt with, and I have done so. Read previous posts.

-sigh- I dont need to. Its very easily understandable when you just read the verses. Besides, I would of read what you sent, but I kinda dont have much time left and it has a ridiculously long explanation. However, I will keep it in my favourites, read it, and then send you a private message on my viewpoints on it and my disagreements and or agreements with it.

However for now the verses still stand. It says faith is dead without good works. It says we are supposed to do good works. Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46 to those who didnt do good works that they were going to hell. Jesus tells us in Matthew 5 how we should do good works and do more then what people ask us to do. Its very simple. James even correlates with what Jesus said.

 

[BenFTW]

-sigh- I dont need to. Its very easily understandable when you just read the verses. Besides, I would of read what you sent, but I kinda dont have much time left and it has a ridiculously long explanation. However, I will keep it in my favourites, read it, and then send you a private message on my viewpoints on it and my disagreements and or agreements with it.

However for now the verses still stand. It says faith is dead without good works. It says we are supposed to do good works. Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-46 to those who didnt do good works that they were going to hell. Jesus tells us in Matthew 5 how we should do good works and do more then what people ask us to do. Its very simple. James even correlates with what Jesus said.

You're speaking out of ignorance, please stop. Read what the link says and get back to us. Until then, anything you say is being said and quoted out of ignorance. You quoted James as if it was him saying something when it was his objector saying it. An objector is someone raising a point to contradict the truth of what is being said, and then James refutes the person. So, again, read the link and get back to us. None of your verses stand, atleast not for your point.

This was the verse, btw, as the objector was raising a point or James was speaking as what an objector would say, and then follows with his refutation.

James 2:18-19. But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!”

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

You're speaking out of ignorance, please stop. Read what the link says and get back to us. Until then, anything you say is being said and quoted out of ignorance. You quoted James as if it was him saying something when it was his objector saying it. An objector is someone raising a point to contradict the truth of what is being said, and then James refutes the person. So, again, read the link and get back to us. None of your verses stand, atleast not for your point.

Lol too funny. You're calling me ignorant when I am saying exactly what the verses say. Also, I find it funny that you claim that this source is even 100% correct as if it is the absolute correct understanding of the verses. I will read it though in time and get back to you, but I am busy. However, quickly just to make a funny analysis of the conclusion:

Can a person believe in Jesus and not have works? Well, probably everybody will have some works, but those who neglect good works are missing out on all that God has for them here and now, are ruining their witness with the world, are destroying their fellowship with other Christians, and will miss out on the rewards they could have had in heaven. Are works important? You bet they are. They will save us from a negative judgment at the Bema, they help justify us before men, and they energize our faith here and now.

So he says "They wil lsave us from a negative judgment at the Berma" ... but I thought Good works didnt = salvation? So wait... if Good works help us be judged positively, and "save us from a negative judgement", then that means that no works can help us get a negative judgement. So it's just like what I've been saying, or what it says in MAtthew 25:31-46.

=___= so please don't call me ignorant, when I can easily just take the conclusion and show how it equates works to matter. As well when the Bible itself, the Bible, has verses saying works are part of faith.[HR][/HR]