saved by christ works or saved by your own?,,,,
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Indeed. The Holy Spirit teaches us all Truth, even the Truth of Jesus dying on the cross and IF we want to accept that Truth or not is completely up to who?
God?
No, silly, us
Why would God not have things set up for freewill IF He was just going to do things His way or the highway. Not my God ! And, not yours either
Freewill . Without Christ, we are a wretched free, but, with Him, we are a righteous free .
God?
No, silly, us
Why would God not have things set up for freewill IF He was just going to do things His way or the highway. Not my God ! And, not yours either Freewill . Without Christ, we are a wretched free, but, with Him, we are a righteous free .
GreenNnice,
I'm not the one being silly.
If you were left to your own devises and not wholly constrained by the
Spirit of the living God; ....... you would so quickly go out of the path.
Yet you hold to your own good works as a replicant, as an evidence of your faith.
Be careful how those works intrude.
Make sure that you aren't trusting in yourself.
Many outwardly 'nice' people are condemned to hell for doing the same.
C
Chis, do you really think you would follow God by your own freewill? Not said srcasticlly, but they who follow the flesh follow willfully, they who follow satan, follow willfully. Why can't we follow God willfully, seeing that He saw our desire to be saved through His Son and gave us a new heart and mind by having made that choice to willfully follow Him?
Do you not see that God controls the very heart of man? I know He searches the hearts of man, even down to the cavities. Nothing is hiden from Him. But as one who is influenced by that which they follow, the Spirit speaks to our spirit and the one who has a heart set towards God will listen to His Voice. Hear me out: if God controls every heart of men, why then are sinners condemned? My Brother in Christ, I seek no harm for your soul or to those I speak to. But I beam a light upon the Christ: our faith must be active, a dead faith is no better than a dead fish, they both stink. It is a choice we have and freewill will not be destroyed just because we follow Christ. And the reason I speak of freewill to those of the OSAS doctrine is that they must fear God in His wisdom in leading us home. If our God Himself said that we can lose salvation, then let us praise God for His mercy He has given us by the indwelling of HIS Spirit. For then, we HAVE a lively hope, not something of the imagination. (though in reply to you, not meant directly to you). It is then that the evidience given of the Christ and God is bestrowed to us. The actuality of both becomes our reality and the dimness that once was over our eyes is now removed and our eyes' light is the Light.
Does that make Him an ogre? hummm?
No. As Paul said, "who are you, oh man, to question God?"
Do you not see that God controls the very heart of man? I know He searches the hearts of man, even down to the cavities. Nothing is hiden from Him. But as one who is influenced by that which they follow, the Spirit speaks to our spirit and the one who has a heart set towards God will listen to His Voice. Hear me out: if God controls every heart of men, why then are sinners condemned? My Brother in Christ, I seek no harm for your soul or to those I speak to. But I beam a light upon the Christ: our faith must be active, a dead faith is no better than a dead fish, they both stink. It is a choice we have and freewill will not be destroyed just because we follow Christ. And the reason I speak of freewill to those of the OSAS doctrine is that they must fear God in His wisdom in leading us home. If our God Himself said that we can lose salvation, then let us praise God for His mercy He has given us by the indwelling of HIS Spirit. For then, we HAVE a lively hope, not something of the imagination. (though in reply to you, not meant directly to you). It is then that the evidience given of the Christ and God is bestrowed to us. The actuality of both becomes our reality and the dimness that once was over our eyes is now removed and our eyes' light is the Light.
Does that make Him an ogre? hummm?
No. As Paul said, "who are you, oh man, to question God?"
Chis, do you really think you would follow God by your own freewill?
Not said srcasticlly, but they who follow the flesh follow willfully, they who follow satan, follow willfully.
- Are not they infact slaves to sin?
Why can't we follow God willfully, seeing that He saw our desire to be saved through His Son and gave us a new heart and mind by having made that choice to willfully follow Him?
- This brings up the point no man can serve two masters. Hear that? Serve. What does a servant do? How much freewill does a servant have? Do you think the heroin junkee is doing it out of freewill? How about the alcoholic? Or the ones addicted to the powers of this world? Nay, all flesh are but servants in this realm.
Do you not see that God controls the very heart of man?
I know He searches the hearts of man, even down to the cavities. Nothing is hiden from Him. But as one who is influenced by that which they follow, the Spirit speaks to our spirit and the one who has a heart set towards God will listen to His Voice.
- You said, 'the one who has his heart set towards God' - This is not possible without the direct imput from the God of all life. Without that we are yet dead in our trespasses and sins.
Hear me out: if God controls every heart of men, why then are sinners condemned?
- Because God doesn't control every heart of man. He only controls those He acts upon....Lucifer controls the rest.
My Brother in Christ, I seek no harm for your soul or to those I speak to. But I beam a light upon the Christ: our faith must be active, a dead faith is no better than a dead fish, they both stink.
- A dead faith is no faith at all.
It is a choice we have and freewill will not be destroyed just because we follow Christ.
- What freewill does the sinner have? That to sin? Nope, he will verily pay to the umpteenth for every jot or tittle of the law he has broken. So how is his will really free? Don't you see he is a slave to sin in his current "freewill" state, and beholden to the devil; - who is the father of all pride?
And the reason I speak of freewill to those of the OSAS doctrine is that they must fear God in His wisdom in leading us home.
- But He will.........we won't.
If our God Himself said that we can lose salvation, then let us praise God for His mercy He has given us by the indwelling of HIS Spirit.
- "For none can take them from My hand", how did God say we can lose our salvation?
For then, we HAVE a lively hope, not something of the imagination. (though in reply to you, not meant directly to you).
- Again, Paul in this verse was speaking of spiritual truths as opposed to the legalistic doctrines the religious that followed his work around and tried to reentangle the new believers into being beholden to the ceremonial laws.
It is then that the evidience given of the Christ and God is bestrowed to us. The actuality of both becomes our reality and the dimness that once was over our eyes is now removed and our eyes' light is the Light.
- Yes, absolutely right........it is , was, and always will be a work of grace. (Lest any of mankind should boast).
Does that make Him an ogre?
hummm? -
- No it doesn't. God did not make people follow, (be a servant to); Satan.
No. As Paul said, "who are you, oh man, to question God?" [/quote]
Alone from God we have the 'freewill' of thieves.
In Christ we have the 'freewill' of bondservants.
-Either way we are serving somebody.
Not said srcasticlly, but they who follow the flesh follow willfully, they who follow satan, follow willfully.
- Are not they infact slaves to sin?
Why can't we follow God willfully, seeing that He saw our desire to be saved through His Son and gave us a new heart and mind by having made that choice to willfully follow Him?
- This brings up the point no man can serve two masters. Hear that? Serve. What does a servant do? How much freewill does a servant have? Do you think the heroin junkee is doing it out of freewill? How about the alcoholic? Or the ones addicted to the powers of this world? Nay, all flesh are but servants in this realm.
Do you not see that God controls the very heart of man?
I know He searches the hearts of man, even down to the cavities. Nothing is hiden from Him. But as one who is influenced by that which they follow, the Spirit speaks to our spirit and the one who has a heart set towards God will listen to His Voice.
- You said, 'the one who has his heart set towards God' - This is not possible without the direct imput from the God of all life. Without that we are yet dead in our trespasses and sins.
Hear me out: if God controls every heart of men, why then are sinners condemned?
- Because God doesn't control every heart of man. He only controls those He acts upon....Lucifer controls the rest.
My Brother in Christ, I seek no harm for your soul or to those I speak to. But I beam a light upon the Christ: our faith must be active, a dead faith is no better than a dead fish, they both stink.
- A dead faith is no faith at all.
It is a choice we have and freewill will not be destroyed just because we follow Christ.
- What freewill does the sinner have? That to sin? Nope, he will verily pay to the umpteenth for every jot or tittle of the law he has broken. So how is his will really free? Don't you see he is a slave to sin in his current "freewill" state, and beholden to the devil; - who is the father of all pride?
And the reason I speak of freewill to those of the OSAS doctrine is that they must fear God in His wisdom in leading us home.
- But He will.........we won't.
If our God Himself said that we can lose salvation, then let us praise God for His mercy He has given us by the indwelling of HIS Spirit.
- "For none can take them from My hand", how did God say we can lose our salvation?
For then, we HAVE a lively hope, not something of the imagination. (though in reply to you, not meant directly to you).
- Again, Paul in this verse was speaking of spiritual truths as opposed to the legalistic doctrines the religious that followed his work around and tried to reentangle the new believers into being beholden to the ceremonial laws.
It is then that the evidience given of the Christ and God is bestrowed to us. The actuality of both becomes our reality and the dimness that once was over our eyes is now removed and our eyes' light is the Light.
- Yes, absolutely right........it is , was, and always will be a work of grace. (Lest any of mankind should boast).
Does that make Him an ogre?
hummm?
-- No it doesn't. God did not make people follow, (be a servant to); Satan.
No. As Paul said, "who are you, oh man, to question God?" [/quote]
Alone from God we have the 'freewill' of thieves.
In Christ we have the 'freewill' of bondservants.
-Either way we are serving somebody.
The works that the legalists would require are a gift from God given to the believer.
Obedience is a gift.
Repentance is a gift.
Grace is a gift.
Salvation is a gift.
The Holy Spirit is a gift.
They are all the work of God in the believers life.
The Lord Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He starts our faith, He works all the middle parts, and He finishes our faith.
And That is a Gift.
Obedience is a gift.
Repentance is a gift.
Grace is a gift.
Salvation is a gift.
The Holy Spirit is a gift.
They are all the work of God in the believers life.
The Lord Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He starts our faith, He works all the middle parts, and He finishes our faith.
And That is a Gift.
G
That is right, ALL are a gift .
Justification comes from understanding of much more than just The Cross. There's more, for starters, the Holy Spirit 'reception' at His appointed time, NOT yours. And, no one, no, not even one of us, knows when that time He entereth in to our body, but Him that knoweth ALL things, created ALL things, knows, and, fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and with it comes understanding of the Holy One.
Use His gifts given right. The Lord leads. Follow. He will show you great and unspeakable things, even the deeper things of God. Let the Spirit lead, He knows how to help you best bring glory to God and He will never leave you nor forsake you IF YOU ARE FAITHFUL and are doing His will , which means never leaving nor forsaking Him
Justification comes from understanding of much more than just The Cross. There's more, for starters, the Holy Spirit 'reception' at His appointed time, NOT yours. And, no one, no, not even one of us, knows when that time He entereth in to our body, but Him that knoweth ALL things, created ALL things, knows, and, fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and with it comes understanding of the Holy One.
Use His gifts given right. The Lord leads. Follow. He will show you great and unspeakable things, even the deeper things of God. Let the Spirit lead, He knows how to help you best bring glory to God and He will never leave you nor forsake you IF YOU ARE FAITHFUL and are doing His will , which means never leaving nor forsaking Him