Saved Through Faith - Justified by Works

[Least]

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

How can there be real faith if we hear what God says and we do not walk in it?

Even in this world, when we believe what a person says we will actually do those thngs.

If someone who has proven themselves to be dishonest or untrue told us to do something, we most likely wouldn’t take their advice or instruction.

If we believe God and we believe HIS word is true, we will step out in faith, and press on into it because we believe HIM.

Real belief requires action and it takes faith to do what we believe.

Faith and believing God’s Word:

Those who God called “JUST,” Justified by works.

Noah:
Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Abraham:
Genesis 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

In the two examples above. God said of Noah that he was a just man perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
In order to walk with God Noah had to know God and we know that Noah believed God because he did what God told him to do.

With Abraham, God said “For I know him,” that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD.

What does the reference, "keep the way of the Lord," mean?

“to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.”

Abram believed God from the very first promise. Notice that this was even before God gave him a new name.

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:
Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

God promised Abraham that he would make a great nation of him, and would bless him, and make his name great. God even told him that he (Abraham) would be a blessing.
If God has blesses us, how can we not be a blessing to others?

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

In both examples of Noah and Abraham the scriptures say this regarding their faith:

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Both believed God, both had faith that what God spoke was true, and both stepped out in that faith, and because of this, both were justified.

Faith without works is dead.

What is pleasing to God?

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Both Noah and Abraham believed what God said, even though the promises seemed far off.

Noah had to have great faith to build the Arc that God instructed him to build even though he was ridiculed and mocked for building it.

He held to God’s word and he did as God said because he believed God.

Abraham was told to leave his homeland and that God would make of him a great nation.

Abraham did not see this nation that God promised him, he wasn’t even told where it was, but he left his homeland as God told him to do, and he sojourned in search of the promise.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

[Hizikyah]

Yaaqob 2:22, "Do you see that the faith worked together with his works, and by works the faith makes perfect?"

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

true faith produces works. Not the other way around.

I am saved by faith apart from works. this is what scripture clearly teaches. I am justified by the work of Christ on the cross. Not by my own works. god calls my works filthy rags. they are meaningless to him.

the penalty of sin is death, thus justification can only come via death, no amount of work can justify us in the eyes of a Holy God. Only death can!

on the other hand. can I say a sinners prayer, say I believe in god, and go on living like I always did? James answers this question.

they are hearers not doers
They only do things which can make THEM look good, or that they wish to do (self centered)
They claim to have faith, but in reality only have belief. can their faith (lack of) save them?? NO! why? it is no faith at all.

Works prove our faith was real. It does not, nor will it ever, justify us.

 

[Least]

true faith produces works. Not the other way around.

I am saved by faith apart from works. this is what scripture clearly teaches. I am justified by the work of Christ on the cross. Not by my own works. god calls my works filthy rags. they are meaningless to him.

the penalty of sin is death, thus justification can only come via death, no amount of work can justify us in the eyes of a Holy God. Only death can!

on the other hand. can I say a sinners prayer, say I believe in god, and go on living like I always did? James answers this question.

they are hearers not doers
They only do things which can make THEM look good, or that they wish to do (self centered)
They claim to have faith, but in reality only have belief. can their faith (lack of) save them?? NO! why? it is no faith at all.

Works prove our faith was real. It does not, nor will it ever, justify us.

There's a difference between self-justification by works which is what that verse in Isaiah is talking about:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Job said this about it:

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

It was God who called those who were obedient to HIS word and HIS truth, "Justified,".

I've seen no place in scriptures where Noah or Abraham called themselves righteous. God said that they believed and were justified because they believed HIM.

If you read the entire message, I stated that it wasn't the works that saved them, but FAITH in God, and they were moved by that faith because they believed God.

Jesus said this:

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

This also lines up with Hebrews 11:

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There's a difference between self-justification by works which is what that verse in Isaiah is talking about:

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Job said this about it:

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

It was God who called those who were obedient to HIS word and HIS truth, "Justified,".

I've seen no place in scriptures where Noah or Abraham called themselves righteous. God said that they believed and were justified because they believed HIM.

If you read the entire message, I stated that it wasn't the works that saved them, but FAITH in God, and they were moved by that faith because they believed God.

Jesus said this:

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

This also lines up with Hebrews 11:

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

I can agree with everything you just said. Amen!

 

[thecreationtutor]

Romans chapter 3 speaks specifically of justification

What then? Are we Jews1 any better off?2 No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both kJews and lGreeks, are munder sin, 10 as it is written:
n“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 o“Their throat is pan open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
q“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 r“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 s“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and tthe way of peace they have not known.”
18 u“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever vthe law says it speaks to those who are under the law, wso that every mouth may be stopped, and xthe whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For yby works of the law no human being3 will be justified in his sight, since zthrough the law comes knowledge of sin.
[h=3]The Righteousness of God Through Faith[/h]21 But now athe righteousness of God bhas been manifested apart from the law, although cthe Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—22 the righteousness of God dthrough faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. eFor there is no distinction: 23 for fall have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 gand are justified hby his grace as a gift, ithrough the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God jput forward as ka propitiation lby his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in mhis divine forbearance he had passed overnformer sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 oThen what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith papart from works of the law. 29 Or qis God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since rGod is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and sthe uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.


How clear can it be?

 

[thecreationtutor]

Job 35
6 If you have sinned, zwhat do you accomplish against him?
And if your transgressions are multiplied, what do you do to him?
7 aIf you are righteous, what do you give to him?
Or what does he receive from your hand?


Sin does nothing to God, our righteousness does nothing to Him

Sin is a debt we owe to God, it is also in us - our righteousness is filthy rags - never enough

 

[Least]

Job 35
6 If you have sinned, zwhat do you accomplish against him?
And if your transgressions are multiplied, what do you do to him?
7 aIf you are righteous, what do you give to him?
Or what does he receive from your hand?


Sin does nothing to God, our righteousness does nothing to Him

Sin is a debt we owe to God, it is also in us - our righteousness is filthy rags - never enough

Justification has many different applications. I'm studying them out now...God is the same yesterday today and forever, and It's important to study out the whole matter.

I'll post what I have thus far for discussion.

God Judges us, and either justifies or condemns.

Psalms 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
Proverbs 3:33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

God does not justify the wicked:
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Proverbs 17:5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
(Thank YOU God for YOUR mercy and truth.)
　

Neither should we justify wickedness:
Deuteronomy 25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
Because God is Just: Be ye holy even as HE is holy. (1 Peter 1:15) (Matthew 5:48)
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Just balances: (Reaping and sowing?)
Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure.
Leviticus 19:36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Proverbs 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
Proverbs 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Proverbs 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
Proverbs 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.
Proverbs 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.
　
　
　
　
　
Proverbs 17:26 Also to punish the just is not good, nor to strike princes for equity.
　

Following after that which is just:
Deuteronomy 16:20 That which is altogether just shalt thou follow, that thou mayest live, and inherit the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Justice and judgement of God
Psalms 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

No man justified in the sight of God
Psalms 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
The path of the just shines brighter and brighter:
Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
(The light that shines from us is justice.) “the path of the just”

Just and unjust:Proverbs 29:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.


To be continued...

 

[RickyZ]

We are justified by faith alone. We will be judged and rewarded (or punished) according to our works.

http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/249-5-how-will-we-judged.html

 

[thecreationtutor]

Justification has many different applications. I'm studying them out now...God is the same yesterday today and forever, and It's important to study out the whole matter.

I'll post what I have thus far for discussion.

God Judges us, and either justifies or condemns.

Psalms 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
Proverbs 3:33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

God does not justify the wicked:
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Proverbs 17:5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
(Thank YOU God for YOUR mercy and truth.)
　

Neither should we justify wickedness:
Deuteronomy 25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
Because God is Just: Be ye holy even as HE is holy. (1 Peter 1:15) (Matthew 5:48)
Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

Just balances: (Reaping and sowing?)
Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure.
Leviticus 19:36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Proverbs 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
Proverbs 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Proverbs 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
Proverbs 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.
Proverbs 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.
　
　
　
　
　
Proverbs 17:26 Also to punish the just is not good, nor to strike princes for equity.
　

Following after that which is just:
Deuteronomy 16:20 That which is altogether just shalt thou follow, that thou mayest live, and inherit the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Justice and judgement of God
Psalms 89:14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

No man justified in the sight of God
Psalms 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
The path of the just shines brighter and brighter:
Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
(The light that shines from us is justice.) “the path of the just”

Just and unjust:Proverbs 29:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.


To be continued...

apart from Romans 3 - what other definition of Justification do we need, paul spells it out pretty straight and forward

 

[thecreationtutor]

apart from Romans 3 - what other definition of Justification do we need, paul spells it out pretty straight and forward

Even in the OT - it was God who declared people Justified by Faith - all the rules were a picture of things to come in Christ - God alone Justifies not on the basis of anything we have done or ever will do but on the imputed Righteousness of Jesus Christ, yes I will do things - but those things never justify me in God's sight. I will not regulate any merit to myself or to anyone else other than Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross.

 

[zone]

God does not justify the wicked:
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

then you have no chance of being justified.

Romans 3
25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faithb into this grace in which we stand, and wec rejoiced in hope of the glory of God. 3More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Romans 5
6For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

 

[ThomistColin]

I think the best way to put this is we are justified through faith, and sanctified (or perfected) through works and the Will of God. Eventually, even if eventually means after we die, We will all become perfect in soul and be given perfected bodies.

 

[thecreationtutor]

I think the best way to put this is we are justified through faith, and sanctified (or perfected) through works and the Will of God. Eventually, even if eventually means after we die, We will all become perfect in soul and be given perfected bodies.

perfected in the works that God has created us for - cool that God already ordained good works for us

As you have received the Lord, so walk in Him - receiving is through faith, just as well as walking in Him is by faith

 

[brmicke]

true faith produces works. Not the other way around.

I am saved by faith apart from works. this is what scripture clearly teaches. I am justified by the work of Christ on the cross. Not by my own works. god calls my works filthy rags. they are meaningless to him.

the penalty of sin is death, thus justification can only come via death, no amount of work can justify us in the eyes of a Holy God. Only death can!

on the other hand. can I say a sinners prayer, say I believe in god, and go on living like I always did? James answers this question.

they are hearers not doers
They only do things which can make THEM look good, or that they wish to do (self centered)
They claim to have faith, but in reality only have belief. can their faith (lack of) save them?? NO! why? it is no faith at all.

Works prove our faith was real. It does not, nor will it ever, justify us.

Least - EG has just invalidated your original post and convinced you to agree with Him. There are two different concepts being addressed here, and mixing them together causes disagreements.

Lease posted -

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Eg posted -

Works prove our faith was real. It does not, nor will it ever, justify us.I am justified by the work of Christ on the cross. Not by my own works.

There are two different subjects being addressed in the quotes pasted above -

1. The Bible says Abraham was justified by works.
2. EG feels that a man is not justified by His works.

The statement in which the two concepts are confused or swapped is in the following quote-

I am saved by faith apart from works. this is what scripture clearly teaches.

In the quote above EG does not speak of justification, but of salvation. He also does not speak of the "works of the Law" but of "works".

The confusion is a result of the misapplication of verses that suggest the following -

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

1. Gal 2:16 states specifically that "no flesh will be justified or made just in Gods eyes by the "works of the law".
Yet James 2:21 appears to contradict this.
2. James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by "works"...

So which is it?

The wording of the two verses is different. Abraham originally had faith and then His faith moved Him to obey - The Bible then says that He was justified by "works of obedience" or "works done in righteousness".

Gal 2:16 says "no flesh will be justified by the Works of the Law".

The difference in the wording of the two verses is the statement the "of the Law".
The works of the law do not justify a person. But Abrahams works (works of obedience or works of righteousness) did justify Him.

The two verses are not talking about the same "works".

It is clear that the Law of God (Love God and Neighbor), is still in effect.
Jesus attested to this fact when He summarized the Law by saying we must Love God and neighbor.
Through a comparison then it can be seen that keeping the commandments of God (and the works the commandments produce - such as obedience) must not be included in the definition of the phrase "the works of the Law'.

So what are the "works of the Law? If "works of obedience" to the law of God are encouraged by Jesus as was the case with Abraham in James 2:21, and yet Paul says we are not to do the "works of the Law", then either Jesus and Paul disagree with each other, or the "works of the law" are different from the "works of obedience to the Law".

The works of the law are the sacrifices or works that a person had to perform to obtain forgiveness under the Old Covenant. The blood of Bulls and Goats will not justify a person, although the Law required those sacrifices to be made to obtain forgiveness until Jesus sacrificed Himself.

"Works of righteousness" do not save us but the Bible says these works do justify us, or make us just in God's eyes.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We are not saved by "works of righteousness or works of obedience" we are saved by grace through faith, Eph 2:8.

The "grace" that saves us is accessed "through faith", and God's grace teaches us (titus 2:11-12) to perform the works of righteousness that make us just in God's eyes.

The works of righteousness (or obedience) "justify" us (or make us just) before God, just as obedience to God justified Abraham.

The two scriptural concepts of justification and salvation must both be seen as being scripturally valid concepts, but they are different one from the other.

Based on the treatment of the concepts of "salvation" and "justification" in the Bible, being saved and justified (or made just) are two different scriptural concepts.

 

[Least]

Least - EG has just invalidated your original post and convinced you to agree with Him. There are two different concepts being addressed here, and mixing them together causes disagreements.

Lease posted -

Eg posted -
There are two different subjects being addressed in the quotes pasted above -

1. The Bible says Abraham was justified by works.
2. EG feels that a man is not justified by His works.

The statement in which the two concepts are confused or swapped is in the following quote-

In the quote above EG does not speak of justification, but of salvation. He also does not speak of the "works of the Law" but of "works".

The confusion is a result of the misapplication of verses that suggest the following -

Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

1. Gal 2:16 states specifically that "no flesh will be justified or made just in Gods eyes by the "works of the law".
Yet James 2:21 appears to contradict this.
2. James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by "works"...

So which is it?

The wording of the two verses is different. Abraham originally had faith and then His faith moved Him to obey - The Bible then says that He was justified by "works of obedience" or "works done in righteousness".

Gal 2:16 says "no flesh will be justified by the Works of the Law".

The difference in the wording of the two verses is the statement the "of the Law".
The works of the law do not justify a person. But Abrahams works (works of obedience or works of righteousness) did justify Him.

The two verses are not talking about the same "works".

It is clear that the Law of God (Love God and Neighbor), is still in effect.
Jesus attested to this fact when He summarized the Law by saying we must Love God and neighbor.
Through a comparison then it can be seen that keeping the commandments of God (and the works the commandments produce - such as obedience) must not be included in the definition of the phrase "the works of the Law'.

So what are the "works of the Law? If "works of obedience" to the law of God are encouraged by Jesus as was the case with Abraham in James 2:21, and yet Paul says we are not to do the "works of the Law", then either Jesus and Paul disagree with each other, or the "works of the law" are different from the "works of obedience to the Law".

The works of the law are the sacrifices or works that a person had to perform to obtain forgiveness under the Old Covenant. The blood of Bulls and Goats will not justify a person, although the Law required those sacrifices to be made to obtain forgiveness until Jesus sacrificed Himself.

"Works of righteousness" do not save us but the Bible says these works do justify us, or make us just in God's eyes.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We are not saved by "works of righteousness or works of obedience" we are saved by grace through faith, Eph 2:8.

The "grace" that saves us is accessed "through faith", and God's grace teaches us (titus 2:11-12) to perform the works of righteousness that make us just in God's eyes.

The works of righteousness (or obedience) "justify" us (or make us just) before God, just as obedience to God justified Abraham.

The two scriptural concepts of justification and salvation must both be seen as being scripturally valid concepts, but they are different one from the other.

Based on the treatment of the concepts of "salvation" and "justification" in the Bible, being saved and justified (or made just) are two different scriptural concepts.

Hi brmicky,

The original post was an examination of Noah and Abraham in my own personal study of justification in the scriptures. This study actually originated with a study on faith as I've heard it defined in so many ways by different people.

I was hoping to continue posting from each chapter as I continued through with this study (partly for my own clarification.) But unfortunately, when the word "works" comes into play people jump on it and assume that I'm telling them to go get their lambs without blemish for the next sacrifice....

I would not agree that the two subjects are confused, as we are NOT JUSTIFIED by works...without faith. Before I was a believer I did all kinds of what I suppose could be called "good works," there was absolutely no faith involved. Where's the justification in that? There is none.

Abraham and Noah were both clearly justified by obedience through faith. As the scriptures show. It's not confusion of the scriptures at all. They heard God, they believed HIM and they did what HE said. As I'm certain most here would do.

I'm in no way addressed the works of the law but obedience to God....I did post verses that pertain to it that some found offensive.

But the main subject was about how the two were justified.

I do agree with what you said here...

So what are the "works of the Law? If "works of obedience" to the law of God are encouraged by Jesus as was the case with Abraham in James 2:21, and yet Paul says we are not to do the "works of the Law", then either Jesus and Paul disagree with each other, or the "works of the law" are different from the "works of obedience to the Law".

The works of the law are the sacrifices or works that a person had to perform to obtain forgiveness under the Old Covenant. The blood of Bulls and Goats will not justify a person, although the Law required those sacrifices to be made to obtain forgiveness until Jesus sacrificed Himself.

"Works of righteousness" do not save us but the Bible says these works do justify us, or make us just in God's eyes..

I appreciate your lengthy response and the scriptures that you gathered from more than bible passage that you used as I know that scripture interprets scripture.

Thanks

 

[Least]

then you have no chance of being justified.

Romans 3
25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2Through him we have also obtained access by faithb into this grace in which we stand, and wec rejoiced in hope of the glory of God. 3More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Romans 5
6For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

15But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Great verses Zone, I am glad that God is the justifier.

If you have an issue with the verses regarding the wicked not being justified, then you'll have to take it up with God. The verses are from HIS word.

God does not justify the wicked:
Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
Proverbs 17:5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
(Thank YOU God for YOUR mercy and truth.)

Perhaps you missed the personal note: "Thank YOU GOD For YOUR mercy and truth?"

God does not justify believers who continue in sin. He convicts, chastises and corrects us.

And Paul also backed up those very passages.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

What can I say....

 

[know1]

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
I have heard many people sing songs and preach/teach saying, 'only believe', but the word, 'believe' in not passive, in the sense that it does not require corresponding action. When Abraham believed God it was with action that lined up with what he believed, which was in God, that He was faithful and able to do what He promised, and in God's word/promise that He made to him.

 

[know1]

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
I have heard many people sing songs and preach/teach saying, 'only believe', but the word, 'believe' is not passive, in the sense that it does requires corresponding action. When Abraham believed God it was with action that lined up with what he believed, which was in God, that He was faithful and able to do what He promised, and in God's word/promise that He made to him.

Sorry for the mistakes, it's late and I'm tired.

 

[konroh]

I can appreciate the distinction between "works" and "works of the Law", but we must also understand the two-fold definition of "to justify"

There are clearly 2 different meanings to the word justify. Look at this:

Rom 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

Paul's definition of justify was "to declare righteous before God", James' definition is "to prove righteous before others." Both are acceptable definitions of the Greek word ἐδικαιώθη. Paul's purpose in Romans was to prove that we have salvation-justification by grace through faith, without works. James' purpose is to make our faith grow and justifiable to all those around as we are saved and sanctified progressively.

The key to James discussion of faith and works is James 2:26 "As the body without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead."

If I draw a pic of a body and spirit and say, "Which is the faith, which is the works?" Most everyone would say that the faith is the spirit inside that makes our body alive. But that's exactly what James doesn't say!
He says that the spirit is the works which causes the body of faith to be alive! Amazing! James is emphasizing faith in our sanctification, and the intrinsic benefit to making our faith grow and be vibrant and alive by doing good works which everyone can see.