Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

[sevenseas]

Everyone is a heretic to some one else. Case in point

Here is a website talking about the "heresies" of John McArthur



blank John Macarthur's Heretical Teaching Regarding the Blood of Christ


Here's another

John MacArthur accuses half-a-billion Christians of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

Another


A True Church - John MacArthur's Damning Doctrine

Here is another..

John MacArthur:- “His beliefs & Teachings”

This is not just something aimed at super-rich big-name preachers; it also applies to all preachers who try to use churches to climb the spiritual social ladder to become famous with peer status. MacArthur, in 2011 earned over half a million dollars by working part-time for his own ‘Grace to You’ organisation and part time at The Master’s College.

And that does NOT include his salary as a pastor, book royalties and speaking fees, etc. (thewatchmanawakes.com ), so his total income each year is estimated at over $1 million. His two sons run the Grace to You organisation, so they, too, reap big rewards.

To make this more dubious, Grace to You paid out over $4 million to his son-in-law’s company over six years. The company receives over three quarters a million a year to produce MacArthur’s videos. Also, one must observe his other activities: a number of researches into his life show an affiliation with Freemasonry, paganism (see A-703) and druids. But, what does he teach? Scripture warns us never to accept or promote teachers who teach against scripture. It says we are to mark them:

Unquote:

There are tons of more websites dedicated the to "heretic " John McArthur. We can do this for every preacher that is well known.

So, you can see that there are people out there that will rip apart every minister that disagrees with them in some area.

Personally I believe McArthur has some good things to say and some things that are off - just like every other preacher - but this is just an example to show that we can exhibit malice towards anyone and publicly insult them.

I certainly don't endorse the type of bad behavior in attacking our fellow brethren like this just because they have a different view or maybe it was something he said 20 years ago and it was done as an "illustration" purpose only.

ha

I was looking at some of that stuff yesterday

there is no defense for MacArthur. he is really just as 'out there' as the people being accused in the videos posted by the anti-gifts crowd

satan's tactics are always to distort what God has created

you mention the malice and slander in some of the posts here; the opposite of love. need I say more?

I'm not Pentecostal nor charismatic. I don't agree with the 'anything goes' mentality of some but if we are going to be honest around here, then we need to take a look at what MacArthur and the religious right teach because as you have pointed out, he is as far wrong the other way as some in the videos are

MacArthur has many false teachings and yet he is put on a pedestal by those who have fallen for his unbiblical doctrines

the posts are tactics designed to intimidate and bully. they do neither. they just reveal a hardness of heart

 

[Grace777x70]

ha

I was looking at some of that stuff yesterday

there is no defense for MacArthur. he is really just as 'out there' as the people being accused in the videos posted by the anti-gifts crowd

satan's tactics are always to distort what God has created

you mention the malice and slander in some of the posts here; the opposite of love. need I say more?

I'm not Pentecostal nor charismatic. I don't agree with the 'anything goes' mentality of some but if we are going to be honest around here, then we need to take a look at what MacArthur and the religious right teach because as you have pointed out, he is as far wrong the other way as some in the videos are

MacArthur has many false teachings and yet he is put on a pedestal by those who have fallen for his unbiblical doctrines

the posts are tactics designed to intimidate and bully. they do neither. they just reveal a hardness of heart

I agree with you. I put up the "Illustration" to show that we can take any minister of the Lord Jesus Christ and insult them publicly because we don't agree with some aspect of what they are teaching.

I do agree with posting what we believe the scriptures say about a subject and allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to all our hearts without the public insulting of others.

The confrontation of leaders are to be done by those in authority in the local assembly. It is not for every Tom, Dick and Jane that is on the internet that has no personal knowledge of these people.

How do know that "if" they said something really off that they have not repented of that now within their local assmbly? So, now we are just gossiping about something that is gone.

I am NOT saying there is no such thing as heresy as has been slanderously said - but true heresy must be based on Christ Himself and that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone and that His blood has taken away our sins. In Him alone we have redemption through His blood - the forgiveness of sins.

Here's another example:

There are a whole bunch of believers that believe that women teachers/pastors are NOT from God and they are in "heresy" because they teach in an open congregation with men there.

There are a few women on CC that say they are pastors/teachers.

So, "If" I was one of the believers that believed women should NOT be a pastor - that means I can publicly call people like our sister Angela ( who says she is a pastor/teacher ) - I can call her out for her "heresies".

I can create websites to the "heretic" women pastor. I can publicly insult her at will because I am "defending the faith".

That means I can in my malice - slander her ever time she posts on CC. Why? Because she is obviously a wolf and the sheep need to be defended from this "heresy".

That would be foul behavior - no matter how much I am declaring I am a "preacher for truth" - or I am "rightly dividing the word of truth" and protecting the sheep from this "wolf" who is bringing damnable "heresies" by saying she can be a pastor and teacher in a congregation.

I can then say that if you don't agree with me ( and the rest of my group that believes women should NOT be ministers ) then you have "itching ears" and there will come a day when you will not endure "sound doctrine". That day is here now because of this "heresy" of woman pastors/teachers.

For the record I would stand against this type of behavior towards Angela or any other women pastor/teacher. This was another "illustration" of the type of foul behavior that goes on in some places.

 

[Stephen63]

Brother, how do you defend these beliefs of Joyce Meyers?


Jesus ceased to be God (no longer deity/lost his divine essence)
Jesus suffered at the hands of demons in hell
The atonement didn't take place on the cross
Believe all this or you aren't saved
Jesus was the first born again man
People are little gods (in the divine/deity sense) - not in this clip but is something she teaches in line with all WoF teachers
Christians are sinless (if not, Jesus died in vain according to her)


These teachings need rebuked at every turn. Even if she isn't part of the WoF movement, but she really is, these heresies are bad enough.

In case you hadn't noticed, he defends every heretic.

But post something about a true christian, & he'll call it d.i.y. self-righteousness.

That's perverted.

 

[sevenseas]

I agree with you. I put up the "Illustration" to show that we can take any minister of the Lord Jesus Christ and insult them publicly because we don't agree with some aspect of what they are teaching.

I do agree with posting what we believe the scriptures say about a subject and allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to all our hearts without the public insulting of others.

The confrontation of leaders are to be done by those in authority in the local assembly. It is not for every Tom, Dick and Jane that is on the internet that has no personal knowledge of these people.

How do know that "if" they said something really off that they have not repented of that now within their local assmbly? So, now we are just gossiping about something that is gone.

I am NOT saying there is no such thing as heresy as has been slanderously said - but true heresy must be based on Christ Himself and that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone and that His blood has taken away our sins. In Him alone we have redemption through His blood - the forgiveness of sins.

Here's another example:

There are a whole bunch of believers that believe that women teachers/pastors are NOT from God and they are in "heresy" because they teach in an open congregation with men there.

There are a few women on CC that say they are pastors/teachers.

So, "If" I was one of the believers that believed women should NOT be a pastor - that means I can publicly call people like our sister Angela ( who says she is a pastor/teacher ) - I can call her out for her "heresies".

I can create websites to the "heretic" women pastor. I can publicly insult her at will because I am "defending the faith".

That means I can in my malice - slander her ever time she posts on CC. Why? Because she is obviously a wolf and the sheep need to be defended from this "heresy".

That would be foul behavior - no matter how much I am declaring I am a "preacher for truth" - or I am "rightly dividing the word of truth" and protecting the sheep from this "wolf" who is bringing damnable "heresies" by saying she can be a pastor and teacher in a congregation.

I can then say that if you don't agree with me ( and the rest of my group that believes women should NOT be ministers ) then you have "itching ears" and there will come a day when you will not endure "sound doctrine". That day is here now because of this "heresy" of woman pastors/teachers.

For the record I would stand against this type of behavior towards Angela or any other women pastor/teacher. This was another "illustration" of the type of foul behavior that goes on in some places.

I know that. I've read a number of posts to understand what you are saying without the addition of the scribes here who take great liberty with the twisting of what others say

I mean even a mod was basically mocked by this crowd. give them enough rope I guess

do they really think no one can read the original post and then see how it is misrepresented?

I honestly do not know how they can be as disjointed in their thinking to conclude that the calling of names to other believers, actually lying in a manner that appears to be purposeful, posting videos from 15 or more years ago (as in the case with Joyce Meyers) and looking for what is wrong rather than praising God for what is right and illustrating what is right with a good spirit and a desire for coming together in the name of Christ, rather than the name of some ultra right wing teacher that is as wrong in their teaching as anyone represented here as a teacher of doctrine of demons

ANY lie does not come from God. Jesus says that the devil is the FATHER of all lies, so honestly, people should take stock of the way they post and exemplify a godly spirit and not a devilish spirit

as far as Meyers go, she has changed her views and teaching over the years. she should be applauded for that and not castigated by people who have achieved what appears to be nothing more than a spiteful desire to bring down those whom God has chosen to help others

I would not listen to Meyers if she was WOF or taught things the Bible does not say

Thing is, many of these self righteous types teach only what agrees with their own steam roller personalities and try to create an aura of righteousness by making others look bad

 

[popeye]

This thread should be renamed " another broad brush against charasmatics,the Holy Spirit,and the body of Christ"

You guys are getting sicker.

You might as well demonize all of Christendom. All have error.

You hate those with the gifts. Your hate will eventually consume you.

 

[sevenseas]

This thread should be renamed " another broad brush against charasmatics,the Holy Spirit,and the body of Christ"

You guys are getting sicker.

You might as well demonize all of Christendom. All have error.

You hate those with the gifts. Your hate will eventually consume you.

well that is just what one of the leaders of this group, MacArthur has already done

he has categorized ALL those who speak in tongues as demonic

half a million or more people

the more he and others like him attack the Holy Spirit, the more in error they are and the ugly judgmental spirit they exemplify comes through in those that accept their erroneous teaching

MacArthur says the blood of Jesus is NOT what forgives sin. He states Jesus death created forgiveness. Now anyone who has even a passing knowledge of what the NT states regarding the blood of Christ knows better than that

 

[popeye]

I know that. I've read a number of posts to understand what you are saying without the addition of the scribes here who take great liberty with the twisting of what others say

I mean even a mod was basically mocked by this crowd. give them enough rope I guess

do they really think no one can read the original post and then see how it is misrepresented?

I honestly do not know how they can be as disjointed in their thinking to conclude that the calling of names to other believers, actually lying in a manner that appears to be purposeful, posting videos from 15 or more years ago (as in the case with Joyce Meyers) and looking for what is wrong rather than praising God for what is right and illustrating what is right with a good spirit and a desire for coming together in the name of Christ, rather than the name of some ultra right wing teacher that is as wrong in their teaching as anyone represented here as a teacher of doctrine of demons

ANY lie does not come from God. Jesus says that the devil is the FATHER of all lies, so honestly, people should take stock of the way they post and exemplify a godly spirit and not a devilish spirit

as far as Meyers go, she has changed her views and teaching over the years. she should be applauded for that and not castigated by people who have achieved what appears to be nothing more than a spiteful desire to bring down those whom God has chosen to help others

I would not listen to Meyers if she was WOF or taught things the Bible does not say

Thing is, many of these self righteous types teach only what agrees with their own steam roller personalities and try to create an aura of righteousness by making others look bad

Exactly.

Look at it this way. We know they,the Pharisees on here,have error and are into denominations with error and teach error.

Neither you nor I will spend hundreds of hours going after them,mocking them,hating on them ,etc.

They have a sickness,the Pharisees ,they are obsessed with mocking and hating.

Then beat their chest at their " righteous trashing" of the body of Christ.

They are sick.

 

[sevenseas]

Exactly.

Look at it this way. We know they,the Pharisees on here,have error and are into denominations with error and teach error.

Neither you nor I will spend hundreds of hours going after them,mocking them,hating on them ,etc.

They have a sickness,the Pharisees ,they are obsessed with mocking and hating.

Then beat their chest at their " righteous trashing" of the body of Christ.

They are sick.

I believe the Pharisaical personality is influenced by the spirit of anti-Christ

yet I agree that we do not do what they are doing

that alone is very notable

I have noticed that most who believe the entire message of the Bible (gifts still valid and so on) basically DEFEND themselves

I have the opposite view. the self-righteous right should defend the teaching of the MacArthurs

 

[BeyondET]

huh is it even possible to suduce a spirit,

doctrines of demons sounds like ISS

 

[popeye]

well that is just what one of the leaders of this group, MacArthur has already done

he has categorized ALL those who speak in tongues as demonic

half a million or more people

the more he and others like him attack the Holy Spirit, the more in error they are and the ugly judgmental spirit they exemplify comes through in those that accept their erroneous teaching

MacArthur says the blood of Jesus is NOT what forgives sin. He states Jesus death created forgiveness. Now anyone who has even a passing knowledge of what the NT states regarding the blood of Christ knows better than that

Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

When the Pharisees accused Jesus of operating under satanic power,that was when He Himself invoked the unpardonable sin on top of their heads.

Ironically,Jesus invoked a spiritual dynamic. SATAN CAN NOT CAST OUT SATAN.

The flip side is,if I accuse a man of God of being satanically empowered,and he casts out demons.....

UH OH.

We need to pray for the souls of these modern day Pharisees.

I honestly do not know if their ignorance will save them

 

[popeye]

Question

By what spirit is one inspired to attack and hate on the body of Christ?

 

[sevenseas]

Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

When the Pharisees accused Jesus of operating under satanic power,that was when He Himself invoked the unpardonable sin on top of their heads.

Ironically,Jesus invoked a spiritual dynamic. SATAN CAN NOT CAST OUT SATAN.

The flip side is,if I accuse a man of God of being satanically empowered,and he casts out demons.....

UH OH.

We need to pray for the souls of these modern day Pharisees.

I honestly do not know if their ignorance will save them

I think the most honest and fitting answer is what Jesus said on the cross

'Father forgive them for they know not what they do'

I think we have to understand, at one time, that was each one of us and forgive. they are not even attacking us. they are attacking the working of the Holy Spirit and working AGAINST Him and do not even seem to know it

 

[Meggido]

I remember when I was about ten years of age, I was watching a news story this crook who had stolen money, had women, the list went on and on. Then they show a picture of him, he was standing high above this huge crowd of people and he looked like the biggest con man I had ever seen. Anyway, in front of the crowd he says, I am Pentecostal, from the crown of my head to the sole of my feet, and as he said that he danced a little jig and it brought the house down. That was many years ago and the same kind of foolishness is still going on today...only a lot bigger.

The exceptions are never the complete rule in the body. I believe John MacArthur is also an exception in the body, right along with the obvious fruits and nuts in Charismatic/Pentecostal celebrities that dominate Christian TV and fleece millions.

MacArthur is in deep deception over certain things, like confusion on what the Blood of Christ does for you and his bullying and hardened stance on anything regarding the Holy Spirit puts him on the ignore list. He berates the money of Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian TV celebrities, yet collects quite a nice chunk of change himself. It is quite obvious he is making noise about one group of believers to take the attention of his own foolishness. We call this sleight of hand and MacArthur excels at it. I find it interesting he started his campaign against the ministers of the Holy Spirit and started his wild fire conferences right about the time, he started taking heat for his egregious salary and lifestyle. Sleight of hand.

I find it interesting that People like MacArthur and his followers will go to any lengths to "defend" the faith, but when it is returned they play the victim.

One day, when facing Jesus some on both sides are going to have a lot to explain Jesus.

 

[popeye]

I think the most honest and fitting answer is what Jesus said on the cross

'Father forgive them for they know not what they do'

I think we have to understand, at one time, that was each one of us and forgive. they are not even attacking us. they are attacking the working of the Holy Spirit and working AGAINST Him and do not even seem to know it

I myself am a product of the charismatic renewal.

I traveled to attend 3 major revivals.
Times Square church early nineties
Rodney Howard Brown mid nineties
Brownsville late nineties

I never believed any of them until I went and dove in.

In fact,when told of the Holy Laughter I was ABSOLUTELY SURE it was some people looking for attention.

Was I ever wrong. It was awesome. So disarming and marvelous to be in such anointing.

When I got "hit",I was laughing and crying at the same time!!!

To this day,I have never heard of that happening to anyone.

It was many things in one. Deliverance,refreshing,Infilling,renewal,and what life and virtue to allow such I filling into one's being

 

[Stephen63]

Question

By what spirit is one inspired to attack and hate on the body of Christ?

It pains me when folks play the blame game against those who bring the truth to light.

By what spirit do we expose false prophets & teachers?

Eph 5:11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.14For this reason it says,
“Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you.”

Not every instance is an attack on the innocent.

We could expose those without discernment who say they have it, when they don't.

Matthew 16​

1The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked Him to show them a sign from heaven. 2But He replied to them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’3“And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

 

[popeye]

It pains me when folks play the blame game against those who bring the truth to light.

By what spirit do we expose false prophets & teachers?

Eph 5:11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.14For this reason it says,
“Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you.”

Not every instance is an attack on the innocent.

We could expose those without discernment who say they have it, when they don't.

Matthew 16​

1The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked Him to show them a sign from heaven. 2But He replied to them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’3“And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

...and don't forget the Pharisees were correct when the crucified Jesus.

Has that FACT ever crossed your mind.

You see,LEGALLY,they HAD TO crucify Jesus.

Your motives,and "rightness" comes with a little twist huh?

 

[Ariel82]

Or are the things taking place in this video with Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley and others of their ilk "of God?"

[video=youtube;dWeUNoR30_0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWeUNoR30_0&list=PL38CBA12275E92246&index= 3[/video]

I like the warning at the end around minute 8.45 when he warns people not to go to the other extreme.

He talks about the fact that God does send His angels and he does STILL heals his people. I wonder what he believes a "new testament church" should look like?

That message can be lost because most people don't listen to everything That is said.

They just read one or two sentences or listen for a minute or two, then get offended, defensive, then attack.

 

[Meggido]

If there is a gift or manifestation of Holy Spirit in ones life...there will always be a counterfeit to cause confusion.


I know that the laughter began with Rodney Howard Browne was for healing of emotions. And he is a great teacher and Pastor.

There's no respect anymore for men in any office, from the church to the world.

Would you tell Peter he was under the kundalini (sp) spirit when he fell into a trance?

We have had a lot of experiences in the body. We heard RHB, in person at a conference state that he learned "holy laughter" from none other than Kenneth "Dad" hagin", who said he learned it from Mom & Pop Goodwin. RHB went onto to say Hagin tuaght him exclusively how to manifest this Joy of the Lord on queue.

We stayed and it was like watching a magician, illusionist, hypnotist weave a spell using certain words through power of suggestion. Your joy is now complete! Joy is bubbling inside of your minds! Let your spirit go free and let Joy fill your mind!
He used 12-15 phrases and always used the term mind. Hypnotists will tell you that to gain control over a persons mind, you use 12-15 hot words and always say mind.

After using power of suggestion he snapped his fingers and said Holy Ghost let it be! On that queue everyone started laughing. It then escalated into some making animal sounds and some men grabbing their wives in compromising positions while fully clothed and cackling and hysteria but not brought on by the Holy Spirit.

Out of 1,000 people about 30 of us were unaffected by this. One man begin walking up to those engaged in "holy laughter" and simply said, In the name of Jesus of Nazareth, come off of them and the people stopped and then begin crying and petitioning the Lord for forgiveness for committing blasphemy or asking those of us not affected to pray for them. We begin ministering and taking authority in the name of Jesus and after 20 minutes were approached by a group of men in suits[RHB pastors] and event security and they forced us to leave.

There is a joy of the Lord but it is not manifested with 1,000 people laughing uncontrollably and manifesting all at once. I have ministered to people and see them go from complete messes before the Holy Spirit and then smile and laugh and chuckle and the joy of the lord come over them, but it is always combined with the peace that passes understanding.

 

[popeye]

I like the warning at the end around minute 8.45 when he warns people not to go to the other extreme.

He talks about the fact that God does send His angels and he does STILL heals his people. I wonder what he believes a "new testament church" should look like?

That message can be lost because most people don't listen to everything That is said.

They just read one or two sentences or listen for a minute or two, then get offended, defensive, then attack.

I saw a edited clip of pat Robertson one time

The clip Pat said concerning muslims "..they should have their heads chopped off.."

It was taken from his statement that " IF I WERE A DEVOUT MUSLIM,I WOULD SAY......"

But you see,the media,the world,hate Christians,so they seek to malign.

We see thread after thread of pharisees with their edited old you tube clips.

What are they doing????

The same "job" the world has............maligning the body of Christ

 

[Meggido]

First the questions were directed to grace7. Secondly, the questions are legit and the answers are in the video, so, no opinion necessary unless you wish to justify her teachings by answering the context question. Hardly an attack or rant, although you're uptight, defensive, and offering accusations with documentation. Maybe you're attacking and "ranting?"

Unlike you, I think for myself and let the Holy Spirit help me discern right and wrong teaching. I will not be bullied by someone like you, to give an opinion on something they think is not truth or the context they present, when I have no idea what that person teaches, because I do not follow her.

Your asking me for an opinion based on your view or the "context" you present. If I do not follow her or know her teachings, how can I compare that with what you are presenting. You see friend, you want me to give a one-sided opinion you alone are presenting. Unlike you, I do not follow herd mentality and form a dogma. I form opinion on teachers based on being led by the Holy Spirit and hearing and absorbing them. Listening to a one-sided video presented by some I disagree with theologically does not make me a heretic, it makes me wise.

My opinion on MacArthur is based on several things he teaches which are in error with the word. This is because at one point I was what you are.