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Dear Zackabba:
Genesis 1:26, which says, "Let US make man in OUR image ....", Matthew 28:19, and 1 John 5:7,
together show God is one God in Three Persons: God is Unity in Plurality.
No, Scripture does not say the Spirit begot the Son. It does not say Jesus is eternally begotten of the
Holy Spirit. It says the Father begot the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit. Since the Spirit is in the
Father, and the Father is in the Spirit (perichoresis/ circumincession, mutual indwelling), the Father
eternally begets the Son by the power of the Spirit. The Father alone is the Begetter of the Son, but the
Spirit is eternally present with/in the Father. All Three Persons are IN each Other.
PERICHORESIS/CIRCUMINCESSION.
IT IS DIVINE MYSTERY, GOD IS, WHOM NO MORTAL MAN CAN UNDERSTAND IN HIS ESSENCE (INNER
NATURE).
God save us. Amen. In Erie Scott R. Harrington
Genesis 1:26, which says, "Let US make man in OUR image ....", Matthew 28:19, and 1 John 5:7,
together show God is one God in Three Persons: God is Unity in Plurality.
No, Scripture does not say the Spirit begot the Son. It does not say Jesus is eternally begotten of the
Holy Spirit. It says the Father begot the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit. Since the Spirit is in the
Father, and the Father is in the Spirit (perichoresis/ circumincession, mutual indwelling), the Father
eternally begets the Son by the power of the Spirit. The Father alone is the Begetter of the Son, but the
Spirit is eternally present with/in the Father. All Three Persons are IN each Other.
PERICHORESIS/CIRCUMINCESSION.
IT IS DIVINE MYSTERY, GOD IS, WHOM NO MORTAL MAN CAN UNDERSTAND IN HIS ESSENCE (INNER
NATURE).
God save us. Amen. In Erie Scott R. Harrington
And ALL this posturing and postulating is irrelevant if one actually knows the truth. It isn't ANY form of:
Tritheism
Triadism
Trinitarianism
Bitheism
Diadism
Binitarianism
Unitarianism
Sabellianism
Arianism
Adoptionism
Gnosticism
The Transcendent God spoke forth the substance of Himself as an Immanent Man. That Logos pierced and divided asunder His Spirit out from Himself to indwell mankind for redemption. Jesus is the prosopon (personal presence and appearance in the sight of another) of God. The "real"ization of the Transcendent God... God made "real". The embodiment of God's substance, procreated as the Son from realm to realm. The eternally-pre-existent internal Logos became the external Son within the creation that came into existence with the act of the utterance. The Son inherits all that is the Father's, including His Soul and Spirit. In eternity, Jesus is the finite point of presence for God's omnipresence.
Transcendence condescended to Immanence, then ascended to Transcendence; born from above that we might also be. Firstborn of all creation; firstborn among many brethren; firstborn from the dead. In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead... bodily. The express image of His substance. God manifested in the flesh. The embodiment of God's Soul and Spirit. Spirit-Soul-Body of One Divinity.
Tritheism
Triadism
Trinitarianism
Bitheism
Diadism
Binitarianism
Unitarianism
Sabellianism
Arianism
Adoptionism
Gnosticism
The Transcendent God spoke forth the substance of Himself as an Immanent Man. That Logos pierced and divided asunder His Spirit out from Himself to indwell mankind for redemption. Jesus is the prosopon (personal presence and appearance in the sight of another) of God. The "real"ization of the Transcendent God... God made "real". The embodiment of God's substance, procreated as the Son from realm to realm. The eternally-pre-existent internal Logos became the external Son within the creation that came into existence with the act of the utterance. The Son inherits all that is the Father's, including His Soul and Spirit. In eternity, Jesus is the finite point of presence for God's omnipresence.
Transcendence condescended to Immanence, then ascended to Transcendence; born from above that we might also be. Firstborn of all creation; firstborn among many brethren; firstborn from the dead. In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead... bodily. The express image of His substance. God manifested in the flesh. The embodiment of God's Soul and Spirit. Spirit-Soul-Body of One Divinity.
"he",,,,,,,,,,,,,,the fallen angels referred to in 2'nd peter are a prime example of this point. they are held in "Tartaroo" the form of hell that the Greek believed in,,,,now its hard to see why peter would have quoted from "Greek mythology" to speak of where they were held untill the day of judgment. but looking at the exact word he used "tartarus" he knew the children of the fallen angels and the daughters of men were these decedents i.e. "my father was a god and my mother was a human",,,,,,,,,,"just see the basic concept,too much to explain here" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he then also went on to say that the earth and all of the molecules(matter) would be consumed in an "f reverent heat",,,,,,,,,,,all of the things of the past "pass through it",,,,,,,,paper,rots and turns to dust and its molecules then to atoms and so on,,,,and the clothes that Adam wore to dust also,,,,,steel turns to rust,,,,and then is broken down to its smallest part,,,,,,,,,,wood becomes rotten and then is the soil,,,,,,,,,and then is on and on,,,,,,,these sift there way into the earths gravity and are pulled into the earths gravity into the center of the earth ,,,,,,,,,,"into the fire",,,,,,,,,,"into the fire",,,,,this is where the blasphemer's go,and the gun's,and the hater's and the car's and the computer's,,,,,,,,,they are on their journey into "tartroo" they are looking at the water of the river "Styx"
and "he"he is the lord that David said "though maketh not my soul suffer corruption",,,,,,,,,,,,"he" said to fire in the inwards to come out and to make dry land and "he" set his hand into it and formed "Adam" from it and then from Adam to you.,,,"he" then sent his son to claim you and to redeem you from the corruption of this of which i speak. to resurrect you from the given path of the sure "f reverent heat",,,,,,,,,,,,there is no "woman" who has married an man and the husband is called after his wife's name,and there is no father whom is known after his son's name.,,,,,,,,,,,,"he",lett'eth the fool die and rott on the grains of sand and with tears in his eyes they come apart and drift down. they become the stinking thing,and the food of the worm.and the lier is then separate of the living. one is called out of it and is resurrected.and the other is swallowed in it. remember this though "the water",,,,,,"the washing" sifts down through this same sand. and as if the "water",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is "pure" the nasty parts of it are left in the same path,,,,and the steam of it in the warmth then is lifted up and is made pure.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and "he reciveth it and is glad to rain it down unto the earth"...........
and "he"he is the lord that David said "though maketh not my soul suffer corruption",,,,,,,,,,,,"he" said to fire in the inwards to come out and to make dry land and "he" set his hand into it and formed "Adam" from it and then from Adam to you.,,,"he" then sent his son to claim you and to redeem you from the corruption of this of which i speak. to resurrect you from the given path of the sure "f reverent heat",,,,,,,,,,,,there is no "woman" who has married an man and the husband is called after his wife's name,and there is no father whom is known after his son's name.,,,,,,,,,,,,"he",lett'eth the fool die and rott on the grains of sand and with tears in his eyes they come apart and drift down. they become the stinking thing,and the food of the worm.and the lier is then separate of the living. one is called out of it and is resurrected.and the other is swallowed in it. remember this though "the water",,,,,,"the washing" sifts down through this same sand. and as if the "water",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is "pure" the nasty parts of it are left in the same path,,,,and the steam of it in the warmth then is lifted up and is made pure.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and "he reciveth it and is glad to rain it down unto the earth"...........
Dear PneumaPsucheSoma: What you said is just too complicated to be true, and it wasn't taught in the
first 1054 years of the Church. So, it is false! God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS You are using an anthropromorphism for God, and God is a Divine Mystery Who can't be reduced to
mere human terms of pneuma psuche soma.
That is more neo-Platonism or Gnosticism than Christianity.
first 1054 years of the Church. So, it is false! God bless you. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
PS You are using an anthropromorphism for God, and God is a Divine Mystery Who can't be reduced to
mere human terms of pneuma psuche soma.
That is more neo-Platonism or Gnosticism than Christianity.
Complicated? Yes, to the indoctrinated who embrace a more-complicated and convoluted 3-person God that is veiled Tritheism.
It's not Neo-Platonism or Gnosticism. You must have no clue what either of those are if you actually say that.
And how dare you imply I'm outside the faith as a Gnostic when I confess Jesus Christ is Uncreated Deity who came in the flesh and was crucified, resurrected, ascended, and is coming again? Who do you think you are to pass that judgement based on your opinion by affiliation with the institutional church?
It's not Neo-Platonism or Gnosticism. You must have no clue what either of those are if you actually say that.
And how dare you imply I'm outside the faith as a Gnostic when I confess Jesus Christ is Uncreated Deity who came in the flesh and was crucified, resurrected, ascended, and is coming again? Who do you think you are to pass that judgement based on your opinion by affiliation with the institutional church?
I posted this earlier.
If there is a trinity then some things need to be explained.
The Bible says that there is one God,the Father.
It says that there is one God,and then states that only the Father is God with no mention of Son or Holy Spirit.
The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.The Spirit caused the conception in Mary.The Spirit dwells in the saints.
If there is a God the Son why does the Bible say Mary was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and not God the Son.
The Bible does not say God the Son but Son of God.
The term Son means to come after the Father,and means to begotten,or else the term has no meaning.
If the Son has no beginning and not created,then why is He called the Son.
The Bible says the government shall be upon the Son's shoulders,and His name will be The everlasting Father,the Prince of Peace,signifying He will be fully God and fully man.
How can the Son be called The everlasting Father.
The Bible says the Son is the fulness of the Godhead bodily,so if Godhead means trinity then they would all be Jesus.
In the Old Testament the Father told the Jews;therefore My people will know My name,therefore they shall know in that day that it is Me that does speak,behold it is I,signifying that God would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them,which Jesus said,if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father,and it is the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.
Is it the Father that was manifest in flesh,and is the Father's name Jesus.
In the Old Testament it says what is God's name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which is a prophetic statement to the Son of God,which the name will be the name of both the Father and Son.
Jesus said,I come in My Father's name,I manifested the Father's name,I declared My Father's name,signifying that the Father's name is Jesus.
Jesus said He did the works in the Father's name,and it is the Father that dwells in Him that does the works.
The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father,meaning Jesus is the Father's name and the Son inherited that name.Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,it is the name of both God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is the name of the Father.
Jesus is the name of the Son as told to Mary by the angel.
The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.
It appears that the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost is Jesus.
The Bible says Jesus created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints.
The book of Luke says to baptize in Jesus' name,so was Jesus telling us that He is the one the created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints,by telling the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which is Jesus,so the saints would not be confused,and would direct their attention to Jesus as Lord and Master,and not to make a trinity out of the titles.
The Son told the disciples when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but ask the Father and He will do it,but in another passage of scripture the Son said when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him and He will do it.
Does it sound like the Son is saying,I intercede and pray to the Father for you while on earth,but when I resurrect to heaven come to Me as God and not as the Son,the man Christ Jesus,to pray to the Father for you.
Jesus said do not ask Him but only ask the Father,but then said ask Him and He will do it.
The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God,even the Father,but in another passage of scripture it says that Jesus will present the kingdom to Himself.
The way I see it,is there is no trinity,but Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,are the 3 ways God has a relationship with people,and there is only one God with no distinction of persons doing it all,created mankind,manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and dwells in the saints.
Father-parent of the saints,and Father of spirits of all people,which all spirits go back to God regardless of how the person acted on earth.
Son-the visible relationship of God to the saints,and the only way the saints can see the invisible God,which the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh,seen of angels.
Holy Ghost-the invisible relationship of God to the saints,and God is a Holy Spirit.
The way I see it,is there is only one God,a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters in creation,Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Comforter,the Holy Spirit,dwells in the saints.When God created mankind He took on the title of Father,and became the Father of spirits,and Father of the saints.The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened,as though it already happened,for if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Bible says,the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.
Therefore the Son,the man Christ Jesus,can be in the beginning before He is born,because God calls things that have not yet happened,as though they already happened,and the Bible says,that when the fulness of the time was come,God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and in another place,the Son was made according to the flesh,and in another place the Son was made a little lower than the angels,but that is flesh.
It seems like there is only one God,with no distinction of persons,and Jesus is that one God.
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen(1 Timothy 6:14-16).
The Bible says,that Jesus is the blessed and only Ruler,who dwells in the light which no man can approach unto,whom no man has seen,and no man will ever see Jesus.
We will never be able to see Jesus because He is the invisible God,but we can only see a visible manifestation of Him that is made of a physical substance.
Is that why so many people argue over the truth,do not seem blessed,and do not act like they should,because they place Jesus as second place or on an equal par with another God,when He is the one God,violating God's commandment,thou shall have no other gods before Me.
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any(Isaiah 44:8).
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour(Isaiah 43:10-11).
If I am going to believe in a trinity,then someone better explain it better and that makes sense,than what has been explained,oh these many years,because when I read the Bible I do not see a trinity.
If there is a trinity then some things need to be explained.
The Bible says that there is one God,the Father.
It says that there is one God,and then states that only the Father is God with no mention of Son or Holy Spirit.
The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.The Spirit caused the conception in Mary.The Spirit dwells in the saints.
If there is a God the Son why does the Bible say Mary was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and not God the Son.
The Bible does not say God the Son but Son of God.
The term Son means to come after the Father,and means to begotten,or else the term has no meaning.
If the Son has no beginning and not created,then why is He called the Son.
The Bible says the government shall be upon the Son's shoulders,and His name will be The everlasting Father,the Prince of Peace,signifying He will be fully God and fully man.
How can the Son be called The everlasting Father.
The Bible says the Son is the fulness of the Godhead bodily,so if Godhead means trinity then they would all be Jesus.
In the Old Testament the Father told the Jews;therefore My people will know My name,therefore they shall know in that day that it is Me that does speak,behold it is I,signifying that God would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them,which Jesus said,if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father,and it is the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.
Is it the Father that was manifest in flesh,and is the Father's name Jesus.
In the Old Testament it says what is God's name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which is a prophetic statement to the Son of God,which the name will be the name of both the Father and Son.
Jesus said,I come in My Father's name,I manifested the Father's name,I declared My Father's name,signifying that the Father's name is Jesus.
Jesus said He did the works in the Father's name,and it is the Father that dwells in Him that does the works.
The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father,meaning Jesus is the Father's name and the Son inherited that name.Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,it is the name of both God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is the name of the Father.
Jesus is the name of the Son as told to Mary by the angel.
The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.
It appears that the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost is Jesus.
The Bible says Jesus created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints.
The book of Luke says to baptize in Jesus' name,so was Jesus telling us that He is the one the created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints,by telling the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which is Jesus,so the saints would not be confused,and would direct their attention to Jesus as Lord and Master,and not to make a trinity out of the titles.
The Son told the disciples when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but ask the Father and He will do it,but in another passage of scripture the Son said when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him and He will do it.
Does it sound like the Son is saying,I intercede and pray to the Father for you while on earth,but when I resurrect to heaven come to Me as God and not as the Son,the man Christ Jesus,to pray to the Father for you.
Jesus said do not ask Him but only ask the Father,but then said ask Him and He will do it.
The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God,even the Father,but in another passage of scripture it says that Jesus will present the kingdom to Himself.
The way I see it,is there is no trinity,but Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,are the 3 ways God has a relationship with people,and there is only one God with no distinction of persons doing it all,created mankind,manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and dwells in the saints.
Father-parent of the saints,and Father of spirits of all people,which all spirits go back to God regardless of how the person acted on earth.
Son-the visible relationship of God to the saints,and the only way the saints can see the invisible God,which the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh,seen of angels.
Holy Ghost-the invisible relationship of God to the saints,and God is a Holy Spirit.
The way I see it,is there is only one God,a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters in creation,Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Comforter,the Holy Spirit,dwells in the saints.When God created mankind He took on the title of Father,and became the Father of spirits,and Father of the saints.The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened,as though it already happened,for if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Bible says,the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.
Therefore the Son,the man Christ Jesus,can be in the beginning before He is born,because God calls things that have not yet happened,as though they already happened,and the Bible says,that when the fulness of the time was come,God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and in another place,the Son was made according to the flesh,and in another place the Son was made a little lower than the angels,but that is flesh.
It seems like there is only one God,with no distinction of persons,and Jesus is that one God.
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen(1 Timothy 6:14-16).
The Bible says,that Jesus is the blessed and only Ruler,who dwells in the light which no man can approach unto,whom no man has seen,and no man will ever see Jesus.
We will never be able to see Jesus because He is the invisible God,but we can only see a visible manifestation of Him that is made of a physical substance.
Is that why so many people argue over the truth,do not seem blessed,and do not act like they should,because they place Jesus as second place or on an equal par with another God,when He is the one God,violating God's commandment,thou shall have no other gods before Me.
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any(Isaiah 44:8).
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour(Isaiah 43:10-11).
If I am going to believe in a trinity,then someone better explain it better and that makes sense,than what has been explained,oh these many years,because when I read the Bible I do not see a trinity.
P
TRINITY... Dif. A co-eternal unity that none is before or after, but is co-equal in the Godhead. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, yet there is not three Gods but one.
This message serves as a public service announcement and is brought to you by courtesy of the Nicean Council.
Don't know about you, but someone failed in math!
This message serves as a public service announcement and is brought to you by courtesy of the Nicean Council.
Don't know about you, but someone failed in math!
zachabba,,, there is no such thing as "unsaved trash",,,,,,,,you should read James 2;9,no one is set at "this table",,,,,,,,,,,,in "disrespect" for any of us to disrespect any of these at 'this table",,,,,,is as though we were murders ,,,,,,,,,and Hitler was a " murder",,,,,,,,,,,in "arrogance" you may assume that i always a "christian" i am now 77, and if you consider at one time i was 19,,,,,,,i was "born on the cross at Calvary" and before the cross i was dead,and could not stand before the father,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,,,anyway there is no such thing as "unsaved trash",,,,,it may come that some of the "unsaved trash" may at times say "prudent things to you",,,,,,,,,,,,,
Z
I posted this earlier.
If there is a trinity then some things need to be explained.
The Bible says that there is one God,the Father.
It says that there is one God,and then states that only the Father is God with no mention of Son or Holy Spirit.
You're referring to 1 Corinthians 8:6, which also says that there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Paul may have been referring to Deuteronomy 6:4, which says, in the Septuagint:
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one...
So, the Father is "the Lord our God," yet Jesus is also this one Lord (and so is the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:17).
The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.The Spirit caused the conception in Mary.The Spirit dwells in the saints.
If there is a God the Son why does the Bible say Mary was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and not God the Son.
Why would the Son conceive Himself?
The Bible does not say God the Son but Son of God.
Yes, and this was clearly a divine title: For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. (John 5:18)
The term Son means to come after the Father,and means to begotten,or else the term has no meaning.
If the Son has no beginning and not created,then why is He called the Son.
He's called the Son because He is, according to the flesh, of the lineage of David. This is why God said of Him that He would be His Son. Does this mean He was not eternally the Son? No - the term "Son" is a title, again, showing that He truly is of the root of Jesse. The same was said of David in past times.
The Bible says the government shall be upon the Son's shoulders,and His name will be The everlasting Father,the Prince of Peace,signifying He will be fully God and fully man.
How can the Son be called The everlasting Father.
He's the Father of creation - He "fathered" creation. 1 John actually may be saying also, according to how it's rendered, that in some way Jesus is our father (1 John 3:1-3; the Son is the one who is supposed to appear, not the Father [physically] - therefore, this could be calling Jesus our Father in some way, yet He is distinct from the Father)
(And don't forget the title of "Mighty God")
The Bible says the Son is the fulness of the Godhead bodily,so if Godhead means trinity then they would all be Jesus.
How did you come to that conclusion?
In the Old Testament the Father told the Jews;therefore My people will know My name,therefore they shall know in that day that it is Me that does speak,behold it is I,signifying that God would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them,which Jesus said,if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father,and it is the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.
Is it the Father that was manifest in flesh,and is the Father's name Jesus.
The Father was not manifest in the flesh - Jesus was - yet the Spirit certainly was in Jesus, working through Him.
The new name is also Jesus's new name, as said in Revelation (as a side note).
In the Old Testament it says what is God's name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which is a prophetic statement to the Son of God,which the name will be the name of both the Father and Son.
Um...are you referring to Isaiah 9:6? I know another place could be Joel 2:32, which is applied to Jesus in Romans 10.
Jesus said,I come in My Father's name,I manifested the Father's name,I declared My Father's name,signifying that the Father's name is Jesus.
Jesus said He did the works in the Father's name,and it is the Father that dwells in Him that does the works.
How did you get to the Father's name being Jesus? When the Father said out of the cloud "This is my Son, with whom I'm well pleased," was this just Jesus "puffing" Himself up?
The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father,meaning Jesus is the Father's name and the Son inherited that name.Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,it is the name of both God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
I think you're a bit confused on this point - Jesus certainly has the name "YHWH," and always has. To his humanity, He has been declared the Lord in power (see Romans 1:1-7 and Philippians 2:5-11). However, Jesus is not the Father. Yes, it's a bit confusing - but with the above example, how can you say that Jesus spoke about Himself (His own Son???) out of a cloud?
Jesus is the name of the Father.
Cite a passage stating this.
Jesus is the name of the Son as told to Mary by the angel.
Yes.
The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.
Yes.
It appears that the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost is Jesus.
Now, again, where did that conclusion come from? Many people had the name Jesus. That doesn't mean it wasn't special, but the Father's name isn't Jesus, nor is the Holy Spirit's.
The Bible says Jesus created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints.
Definitely - He created all things, was manifested in the flesh, and dwells in the saints by His Spirit, the Spirit of God He was given by the Father, whom He has given to us.
The book of Luke says to baptize in Jesus' name,so was Jesus telling us that He is the one the created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints,by telling the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which is Jesus,so the saints would not be confused,and would direct their attention to Jesus as Lord and Master,and not to make a trinity out of the titles.
...there is clearly a Trinity in the title, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" - why didn't He just say "in the name of Jesus"?
The Son told the disciples when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but ask the Father and He will do it,but in another passage of scripture the Son said when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him and He will do it.
Does it sound like the Son is saying,I intercede and pray to the Father for you while on earth,but when I resurrect to heaven come to Me as God and not as the Son,the man Christ Jesus,to pray to the Father for you.
Jesus said do not ask Him but only ask the Father,but then said ask Him and He will do it.
Wait, what? He never says not to ask Him anything - He says you will not ask about anything, because they will understand why He had to return to the Father and why He was resurrected - read the context of John 16.
In another passage, He clearly does command us to ask Him anything in His name, and He will do it (John 14:14).
Jesus prayed to the Father while on earth, and in heaven He intercedes for every one of us.
Again, He never says not to ask Him for anything.
The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God,even the Father,but in another passage of scripture it says that Jesus will present the kingdom to Himself.
Why couldn't they both be reigning? Jesus is eternally subordinate to God the Father, yet He still reigns.
The way I see it,is there is no trinity,but Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,are the 3 ways God has a relationship with people,and there is only one God with no distinction of persons doing it all,created mankind,manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and dwells in the saints.
Now, hold on a second - you just made a distinction of persons:
...there is only one God...manifest all His attributes to the man Jesus Christ.
All His? Whose?
Father-parent of the saints,and Father of spirits of all people,which all spirits go back to God regardless of how the person acted on earth.
Jesus is the God of the spirits of the prophets, and the Father of them in that He created them.
Son-the visible relationship of God to the saints,and the only way the saints can see the invisible God,which the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh,seen of angels.
True.
Holy Ghost-the invisible relationship of God to the saints,and God is a Holy Spirit.
Yes, true.
The way I see it,is there is only one God,a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters in creation,Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Comforter,the Holy Spirit,dwells in the saints.When God created mankind He took on the title of Father,and became the Father of spirits,and Father of the saints.The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
So, Jesus proceeds from Jesus, who sent the Spirit of Jesus into the believers that Jesus made...???
The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened,as though it already happened,for if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Bible says,the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.
God knows all things, and, I believe, has predestined all - this is what this means. He is an eternal God, not limited by "our" time. He is outside of the boundaries of time.
Therefore the Son,the man Christ Jesus,can be in the beginning before He is born,because God calls things that have not yet happened,as though they already happened,and the Bible says,that when the fulness of the time was come,God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and in another place,the Son was made according to the flesh,and in another place the Son was made a little lower than the angels,but that is flesh.
Never says He was "made" according to the flesh, but that He was "born" according to the flesh. We think that once someone's born ,that means that they were "made" then. Why? Because, in 99.99% of the cases of birth, this has been true. However, in Jesus's case, He was born of Mary, yet not "made" within her - He didn't begin His existence within her (John 8:58). She "bore" Him, taking a role in bringing Him into the world. Now I'm sure if the Son wanted to he could have just materialized into this world (He did when He went into the room with the disciples after His resurrection, remember?) - however, the Father choose to make the Son manifest this way, through the Holy Spirit.
It seems like there is only one God,with no distinction of persons,and Jesus is that one God.
Jesus is God - absolutely right. But, then the question is, who was speaking out of the cloud ("This is my Son, with whom I am well pleased")?
Why do the letter's of Paul begin with "Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"?
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen(1 Timothy 6:14-16).
I don't think this is a reference to Christ, but instead the Father. If it was, there would be a big question about it - has no one seen Christ? "whom no man hath seen..."
The Bible says,that Jesus is the blessed and only Ruler,who dwells in the light which no man can approach unto,whom no man has seen,and no man will ever see Jesus.
Same question.
We will never be able to see Jesus because He is the invisible God,but we can only see a visible manifestation of Him that is made of a physical substance.
Em...I guess I could see that being true, but the fact is, people have seen Jesus. Even in the Old Testament people saw God in human form (Genesis 18 for example) - whom, I would argue, was the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Word of God.
Is that why so many people argue over the truth,do not seem blessed,and do not act like they should,because they place Jesus as second place or on an equal par with another God,when He is the one God,violating God's commandment,thou shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus is equal with the Father in substance, yet not in authority. The Spirit is below them both in authority, yet just as equal in substance.
When Jesus said "The Father is greater than I," it seems as though people look at the whole context, check it twice, then go "blah blah blah....blah blah TheFatherisGreaterthanI blah blah blah...."
Jesus said that He was *going to the Father* because the Father was greater than Him - in the context, it seems to be saying that Jesus is going to the Father not because He is greater in substance than Him, but because He's greater in authority - you never hear the Father saying that He's going back to Jesus, do you?
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any(Isaiah 44:8).
Amen. There is no God besides YHWH.
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour(Isaiah 43:10-11).
Amen. There is no Saviour besides YHWH.
If I am going to believe in a trinity,then someone better explain it better and that makes sense,than what has been explained,oh these many years,because when I read the Bible I do not see a trinity.
Well, I hope what I said above cleared things up a little bit.
Grace and Love
If there is a trinity then some things need to be explained.
The Bible says that there is one God,the Father.
It says that there is one God,and then states that only the Father is God with no mention of Son or Holy Spirit.
You're referring to 1 Corinthians 8:6, which also says that there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.
Paul may have been referring to Deuteronomy 6:4, which says, in the Septuagint:
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one...
So, the Father is "the Lord our God," yet Jesus is also this one Lord (and so is the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 3:17).
The Spirit moved upon the face of the waters.The Spirit caused the conception in Mary.The Spirit dwells in the saints.
If there is a God the Son why does the Bible say Mary was conceived of the Holy Spirit,and not God the Son.
Why would the Son conceive Himself?
The Bible does not say God the Son but Son of God.
Yes, and this was clearly a divine title: For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. (John 5:18)
The term Son means to come after the Father,and means to begotten,or else the term has no meaning.
If the Son has no beginning and not created,then why is He called the Son.
He's called the Son because He is, according to the flesh, of the lineage of David. This is why God said of Him that He would be His Son. Does this mean He was not eternally the Son? No - the term "Son" is a title, again, showing that He truly is of the root of Jesse. The same was said of David in past times.
The Bible says the government shall be upon the Son's shoulders,and His name will be The everlasting Father,the Prince of Peace,signifying He will be fully God and fully man.
How can the Son be called The everlasting Father.
He's the Father of creation - He "fathered" creation. 1 John actually may be saying also, according to how it's rendered, that in some way Jesus is our father (1 John 3:1-3; the Son is the one who is supposed to appear, not the Father [physically] - therefore, this could be calling Jesus our Father in some way, yet He is distinct from the Father)
(And don't forget the title of "Mighty God")
The Bible says the Son is the fulness of the Godhead bodily,so if Godhead means trinity then they would all be Jesus.
How did you come to that conclusion?
In the Old Testament the Father told the Jews;therefore My people will know My name,therefore they shall know in that day that it is Me that does speak,behold it is I,signifying that God would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them,which Jesus said,if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father,and it is the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.
Is it the Father that was manifest in flesh,and is the Father's name Jesus.
The Father was not manifest in the flesh - Jesus was - yet the Spirit certainly was in Jesus, working through Him.
The new name is also Jesus's new name, as said in Revelation (as a side note).
In the Old Testament it says what is God's name,and what is His Son's name,if you can tell,which is a prophetic statement to the Son of God,which the name will be the name of both the Father and Son.
Um...are you referring to Isaiah 9:6? I know another place could be Joel 2:32, which is applied to Jesus in Romans 10.
Jesus said,I come in My Father's name,I manifested the Father's name,I declared My Father's name,signifying that the Father's name is Jesus.
Jesus said He did the works in the Father's name,and it is the Father that dwells in Him that does the works.
How did you get to the Father's name being Jesus? When the Father said out of the cloud "This is my Son, with whom I'm well pleased," was this just Jesus "puffing" Himself up?
The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father,meaning Jesus is the Father's name and the Son inherited that name.Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,it is the name of both God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus.
I think you're a bit confused on this point - Jesus certainly has the name "YHWH," and always has. To his humanity, He has been declared the Lord in power (see Romans 1:1-7 and Philippians 2:5-11). However, Jesus is not the Father. Yes, it's a bit confusing - but with the above example, how can you say that Jesus spoke about Himself (His own Son???) out of a cloud?
Jesus is the name of the Father.
Cite a passage stating this.
Jesus is the name of the Son as told to Mary by the angel.
Yes.
The Bible says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.
Yes.
It appears that the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost is Jesus.
Now, again, where did that conclusion come from? Many people had the name Jesus. That doesn't mean it wasn't special, but the Father's name isn't Jesus, nor is the Holy Spirit's.
The Bible says Jesus created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints.
Definitely - He created all things, was manifested in the flesh, and dwells in the saints by His Spirit, the Spirit of God He was given by the Father, whom He has given to us.
The book of Luke says to baptize in Jesus' name,so was Jesus telling us that He is the one the created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints,by telling the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,which is Jesus,so the saints would not be confused,and would direct their attention to Jesus as Lord and Master,and not to make a trinity out of the titles.
...there is clearly a Trinity in the title, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" - why didn't He just say "in the name of Jesus"?
The Son told the disciples when He resurrects to heaven to not ask Him anything,but ask the Father and He will do it,but in another passage of scripture the Son said when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him and He will do it.
Does it sound like the Son is saying,I intercede and pray to the Father for you while on earth,but when I resurrect to heaven come to Me as God and not as the Son,the man Christ Jesus,to pray to the Father for you.
Jesus said do not ask Him but only ask the Father,but then said ask Him and He will do it.
Wait, what? He never says not to ask Him anything - He says you will not ask about anything, because they will understand why He had to return to the Father and why He was resurrected - read the context of John 16.
In another passage, He clearly does command us to ask Him anything in His name, and He will do it (John 14:14).
Jesus prayed to the Father while on earth, and in heaven He intercedes for every one of us.
Again, He never says not to ask Him for anything.
The Bible says the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to God,even the Father,but in another passage of scripture it says that Jesus will present the kingdom to Himself.
Why couldn't they both be reigning? Jesus is eternally subordinate to God the Father, yet He still reigns.
The way I see it,is there is no trinity,but Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,are the 3 ways God has a relationship with people,and there is only one God with no distinction of persons doing it all,created mankind,manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and dwells in the saints.
Now, hold on a second - you just made a distinction of persons:
...there is only one God...manifest all His attributes to the man Jesus Christ.
All His? Whose?
Father-parent of the saints,and Father of spirits of all people,which all spirits go back to God regardless of how the person acted on earth.
Jesus is the God of the spirits of the prophets, and the Father of them in that He created them.
Son-the visible relationship of God to the saints,and the only way the saints can see the invisible God,which the Bible says God was manifest in the flesh,seen of angels.
True.
Holy Ghost-the invisible relationship of God to the saints,and God is a Holy Spirit.
Yes, true.
The way I see it,is there is only one God,a Holy Spirit,and that is why the Spirit moved upon the face of the waters in creation,Jesus was conceived of the Spirit,and the Comforter,the Holy Spirit,dwells in the saints.When God created mankind He took on the title of Father,and became the Father of spirits,and Father of the saints.The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
So, Jesus proceeds from Jesus, who sent the Spirit of Jesus into the believers that Jesus made...???
The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened,as though it already happened,for if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,which the Bible says,the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.
God knows all things, and, I believe, has predestined all - this is what this means. He is an eternal God, not limited by "our" time. He is outside of the boundaries of time.
Therefore the Son,the man Christ Jesus,can be in the beginning before He is born,because God calls things that have not yet happened,as though they already happened,and the Bible says,that when the fulness of the time was come,God sent forth His Son,made of a woman,made under the law,and in another place,the Son was made according to the flesh,and in another place the Son was made a little lower than the angels,but that is flesh.
Never says He was "made" according to the flesh, but that He was "born" according to the flesh. We think that once someone's born ,that means that they were "made" then. Why? Because, in 99.99% of the cases of birth, this has been true. However, in Jesus's case, He was born of Mary, yet not "made" within her - He didn't begin His existence within her (John 8:58). She "bore" Him, taking a role in bringing Him into the world. Now I'm sure if the Son wanted to he could have just materialized into this world (He did when He went into the room with the disciples after His resurrection, remember?) - however, the Father choose to make the Son manifest this way, through the Holy Spirit.
It seems like there is only one God,with no distinction of persons,and Jesus is that one God.
Jesus is God - absolutely right. But, then the question is, who was speaking out of the cloud ("This is my Son, with whom I am well pleased")?
Why do the letter's of Paul begin with "Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ"?
14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen(1 Timothy 6:14-16).
I don't think this is a reference to Christ, but instead the Father. If it was, there would be a big question about it - has no one seen Christ? "whom no man hath seen..."
The Bible says,that Jesus is the blessed and only Ruler,who dwells in the light which no man can approach unto,whom no man has seen,and no man will ever see Jesus.
Same question.
We will never be able to see Jesus because He is the invisible God,but we can only see a visible manifestation of Him that is made of a physical substance.
Em...I guess I could see that being true, but the fact is, people have seen Jesus. Even in the Old Testament people saw God in human form (Genesis 18 for example) - whom, I would argue, was the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Word of God.
Is that why so many people argue over the truth,do not seem blessed,and do not act like they should,because they place Jesus as second place or on an equal par with another God,when He is the one God,violating God's commandment,thou shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus is equal with the Father in substance, yet not in authority. The Spirit is below them both in authority, yet just as equal in substance.
When Jesus said "The Father is greater than I," it seems as though people look at the whole context, check it twice, then go "blah blah blah....blah blah TheFatherisGreaterthanI blah blah blah...."
Jesus said that He was *going to the Father* because the Father was greater than Him - in the context, it seems to be saying that Jesus is going to the Father not because He is greater in substance than Him, but because He's greater in authority - you never hear the Father saying that He's going back to Jesus, do you?
8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any(Isaiah 44:8).
Amen. There is no God besides YHWH.
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour(Isaiah 43:10-11).
Amen. There is no Saviour besides YHWH.
If I am going to believe in a trinity,then someone better explain it better and that makes sense,than what has been explained,oh these many years,because when I read the Bible I do not see a trinity.
Well, I hope what I said above cleared things up a little bit.
Grace and Love
