And I'm pretty sure none of them were able to grab their scrolls to find themselves some verification of that being of God. They would have searched and search looking for a specifically worded "OK" on spitting in eyes.... all the time, missing all the places where simply loving and rescuing people from the ravages of Satan were clearly laid out.
Should Christians be guided by prophecies?
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And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, encouraged and strengthened the brothers with many words.
Act 15:32
While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews[c] at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’” 12 When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem.
Acts 21:9-12
Prophets exist, and is a ministry, and this has value.
Test what is provided and praise the Lord he uses people to
speak to people about specific situations.
But most encouragement comes through the word, specific
guidance over issues close to the hearts of His people, God uses
prophets to underline His heart.
If you want real guidance of prophecy read Jeremiah and the self
pleasing prophets who were false.
the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?
Jer 5:31
Dangerous territory, but also when exercised in the power of the Spirit
a real blessing.
Act 15:32
While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews[c] at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’” 12 When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem.
Acts 21:9-12
Prophets exist, and is a ministry, and this has value.
Test what is provided and praise the Lord he uses people to
speak to people about specific situations.
But most encouragement comes through the word, specific
guidance over issues close to the hearts of His people, God uses
prophets to underline His heart.
If you want real guidance of prophecy read Jeremiah and the self
pleasing prophets who were false.
the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?
Jer 5:31
Dangerous territory, but also when exercised in the power of the Spirit
a real blessing.
Lol.....I never thought about that. They could be thinking - "He is not doing things the way we were taught"... so it can't be God.
That's one of the inherit problems with having the scriptures be God instead of letting the scriptures bring us to Jesus Himself.
In saying that - I do believe in being devoted to the scriptures but not as an end in themselves but to reveal Christ - to know Him ( as in Adam "knew" his wife ). We can know every scripture in the NT and not know Christ Himself nor be following the leading of the Spirit of God in our hearts.
We are not going to be walking around in heaven or for eternity with bibles under our arms.
Nor is the Holy Spirit in us going to be doing something contrary to the scriptures and as you say - it all depends on our own interpretation of a scripture and we can get that from our church teachings and traditions of which they may or may not be entirely accurate.
Without Him we can do nothing. It is my belief that we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.
Yes....there's a ditch in every side of the road that truth is on. Some think it always has to be strange to be God - others think if it is strange then it is not from God.
Here is the scripture where Jesus spit on the eyes of a blind man which is different from the spitting on the mud one. Jesus seemed to like spitting. Let's start a new denomination and call it "The First Church of the Spitters".
Some also say "You only need to do something once - and that's enough". Here's Jesus after spitting on the guy's eyes - having to lay hands on him twice to get the full manifestation of his healing.
Mark 8:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
Here is the scripture where Jesus spit on the eyes of a blind man which is different from the spitting on the mud one. Jesus seemed to like spitting. Let's start a new denomination and call it "The First Church of the Spitters".
Some also say "You only need to do something once - and that's enough". Here's Jesus after spitting on the guy's eyes - having to lay hands on him twice to get the full manifestation of his healing.
Mark 8:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
Firstly, under the New Covenant the sons of God are led by the Spirit of God, and to the find the will of God for a specific siutation earnest prevailing prayer is needed until one hears from God. Rom 8v14, John 14v16-26.
Having sought and heard from God, we can ask Him to comfirm it, and this can be done through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, ie. prophecy or tongues and interpretation of tongues. 1Thess 5v20, Rev 2v7,11,17,29, 3v6,13,22.
You can find a bit of a study Here on seeking and receiving guidance from God..
Having sought and heard from God, we can ask Him to comfirm it, and this can be done through the gifts of the Holy Spirit, ie. prophecy or tongues and interpretation of tongues. 1Thess 5v20, Rev 2v7,11,17,29, 3v6,13,22.
You can find a bit of a study Here on seeking and receiving guidance from God..
We today have the revealed will and plan of God contained in the NT, so to confirm something we go to the NT and take everything in context and be totally honest. If you are trying to hear a voice or feel an impression or follow a prophecy,you may very well be deceived. An honest appraisal of what is in the NT will give you the answer.
1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
So what does this mean concerning prophecies?
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
So what does this mean concerning prophecies?
To me prophecies have these elements to them. They build up, exhort, comfort us.
1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
I believe that whatever prophecies were spoken over Paul - that with them he was to fight the fight of faith in the midst of his situation.
I believe that this was different from the gift that was in him by the laying on of hands that Paul mentions in his 2nd letter to Timothy. Paul told him to "kindle afresh" or "fan into flame" the gift that is inside of you when Paul laid his hands on him.
I believe this is when Paul laid his hands on them and they were filled with the Holy spirit and spoke in tongues. I believe Paul is reminding Timothy to pray in the spirit to strengthen himself while he was going through this fight of his faith in whatever situation he was in at the time Paul wrote the letter to him.
The Greek word here for "gift" is charisma which refers to a gift of the Spirit.
2 Timothy 1:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.
1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
I believe that whatever prophecies were spoken over Paul - that with them he was to fight the fight of faith in the midst of his situation.
I believe that this was different from the gift that was in him by the laying on of hands that Paul mentions in his 2nd letter to Timothy. Paul told him to "kindle afresh" or "fan into flame" the gift that is inside of you when Paul laid his hands on him.
I believe this is when Paul laid his hands on them and they were filled with the Holy spirit and spoke in tongues. I believe Paul is reminding Timothy to pray in the spirit to strengthen himself while he was going through this fight of his faith in whatever situation he was in at the time Paul wrote the letter to him.
The Greek word here for "gift" is charisma which refers to a gift of the Spirit.
2 Timothy 1:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.
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I spent a fair amount of my youth in the Assemblies of God. And some of the people in that denomination will tell you not to accept a prophecy about your calling or a directive prophecy unless it is confirmation. But you know what? I could never square that with scripture.
There are a lot of people in the WOF movement who quote Kenneth Hagin almost like his little booklets and his sermons are the Bible, or their used to be back when he is alive. I haven't had that much contact with people in that movement for a while. One thing Kenneth Hagin said is that we are to be led by the Spirit, not by prophets.
That doesn't make sense on so many levels. For one thing, Paul writes that if we are led by the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I can't find where being 'led by the Spirit' has to do with making life decisions like moving to a city.
Another problem with that is that it makes things very individualistic. I Corinthians 12 teaches that there are certain gifts, manifestations of the Spirit given to the common good, and several verses are spent on how different parts of the body need each other. If the prophecy is genuine, it is a prophecy that comes from the Spirit of God. I can receive something from the Spirit of God that comes through another individual. That should be normal and normative for all of us. How many of us have not benefited from someone else teaching us the Bible?
There are a lot of people in the WOF movement who quote Kenneth Hagin almost like his little booklets and his sermons are the Bible, or their used to be back when he is alive. I haven't had that much contact with people in that movement for a while. One thing Kenneth Hagin said is that we are to be led by the Spirit, not by prophets.
That doesn't make sense on so many levels. For one thing, Paul writes that if we are led by the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I can't find where being 'led by the Spirit' has to do with making life decisions like moving to a city.
Another problem with that is that it makes things very individualistic. I Corinthians 12 teaches that there are certain gifts, manifestations of the Spirit given to the common good, and several verses are spent on how different parts of the body need each other. If the prophecy is genuine, it is a prophecy that comes from the Spirit of God. I can receive something from the Spirit of God that comes through another individual. That should be normal and normative for all of us. How many of us have not benefited from someone else teaching us the Bible?
Then there are some people who say God won't give a directive prophecy to someone else first if you are walking closely with Him, but that it might happen if you aren't following the Lord, aren't spending time in prayer. I wouldn't want to put limitations on God.
There are times, though, when an individual might hear a prophecy and actually perceive the voice of the Spirit of God in those words. In this case, how it that much different from hearing directly from God in terms of how you treat it? Is that 'confirmation.' No. But we should heed when we hear God speak to us. So those who say it is only legit if it is 'confirmation' of something spoken in the past are wrong. If you can perceive God is speaking through someone, you should do what it says. The situation I described is what some people describe as 'That bears witness.' Or maybe this sounds really religious but I've heard, "That bears witness with my spirit." I think I've heard some of the WOFers and other charismatics say things like that.
I've also experienced it where someone was just saying something encouraging, but I perceived it as a prophecy. My wife and I, before we married, were wanting to marry, but she's from a collectivist culture, and you have to deal wiht a lot of family issues. And then there was scheduling a trip back to the US, paying for a party for two or three hundred people, and everything else. This friend of ours in a Bible study said something along the lines of do not worry about getting married and that the Lord would work everything out. I don't know the exact quote, but it sure felt like the Lord was speaking through that. I believe my then-future wife could sense that, too.
We had two or three people tell us about the three fold or three strand cord that could not easily be broken, about us and Jesus. Then we went to the US, and a kind of prophetically gifted pastor prayed a prayer over us about the three-strand cord that could not easily be broken. I don't think I'd heard that metaphor for marriage before.
Caiaphas prophesied, probably without even knowing it.
There are times, though, when an individual might hear a prophecy and actually perceive the voice of the Spirit of God in those words. In this case, how it that much different from hearing directly from God in terms of how you treat it? Is that 'confirmation.' No. But we should heed when we hear God speak to us. So those who say it is only legit if it is 'confirmation' of something spoken in the past are wrong. If you can perceive God is speaking through someone, you should do what it says. The situation I described is what some people describe as 'That bears witness.' Or maybe this sounds really religious but I've heard, "That bears witness with my spirit." I think I've heard some of the WOFers and other charismatics say things like that.
I've also experienced it where someone was just saying something encouraging, but I perceived it as a prophecy. My wife and I, before we married, were wanting to marry, but she's from a collectivist culture, and you have to deal wiht a lot of family issues. And then there was scheduling a trip back to the US, paying for a party for two or three hundred people, and everything else. This friend of ours in a Bible study said something along the lines of do not worry about getting married and that the Lord would work everything out. I don't know the exact quote, but it sure felt like the Lord was speaking through that. I believe my then-future wife could sense that, too.
We had two or three people tell us about the three fold or three strand cord that could not easily be broken, about us and Jesus. Then we went to the US, and a kind of prophetically gifted pastor prayed a prayer over us about the three-strand cord that could not easily be broken. I don't think I'd heard that metaphor for marriage before.
Caiaphas prophesied, probably without even knowing it.
The problem is when someone prophesies and it does not confirm something you already heard from God, and it gives you some kind of direction. You can't say you can sense it is from God, or that it isn't.
As with any prophecy, you have to consider whether it is Biblical. If someone prophesies to a woman to leave her husband and marry him, then we can know that goes against scripture. Of course, that's not a normal thing, fortunately, in church. But let's say you get a prophecy that some day the Lord is going to use you on a missions trip to Africa. If it's some day, you can 'put it on the shelf', and just wait. If it says go right away, you have an issue.
Rather than rejecting prophecies that aren't confirmation out of hand-- which could be an excuse to depise prophecies that seem inconvenient-- we should consider them and make a decision. Some prophecies are given in church. Churches should actually follow, 'Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. If a revelation cometh to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace...' I certainly think it is a good thing when people from the congregation that you trust can say, "I got the same thing." It happens that two people get the same prophecy or revelation, even specific things, at the same time. We need to keep in mind that the early church had a somewhat 'open format' as we see in I Corinthians 14, where believers could use spiritual gifts to edify one another. We don't see the pulpit-pew format in that passage, the passage that goes into detail on what to do at church.
I believe if a church receives a prophecy that is a call to action, it should consider it. The Bible says to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge, or some would translate it, weigh carefully what is said. In Acts, Agabus signified by the Spirit that there would be a famine. The church must have evaluated what he said. They decided to send an offering to the poor saints in Judea. The probably knew how a famine would effect the poor saints there.
If it is an individual prophecy, you can seek input from the church especially if it was given in church, seek counsel from the elders of the church, seek counsel from godly individuals. If you are a wife or child you can ask your husband or father. In many cases, the decision is in the hands of the individual who received the prophecy.
As with any prophecy, you have to consider whether it is Biblical. If someone prophesies to a woman to leave her husband and marry him, then we can know that goes against scripture. Of course, that's not a normal thing, fortunately, in church. But let's say you get a prophecy that some day the Lord is going to use you on a missions trip to Africa. If it's some day, you can 'put it on the shelf', and just wait. If it says go right away, you have an issue.
Rather than rejecting prophecies that aren't confirmation out of hand-- which could be an excuse to depise prophecies that seem inconvenient-- we should consider them and make a decision. Some prophecies are given in church. Churches should actually follow, 'Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. If a revelation cometh to one sitting by, let the first hold his peace...' I certainly think it is a good thing when people from the congregation that you trust can say, "I got the same thing." It happens that two people get the same prophecy or revelation, even specific things, at the same time. We need to keep in mind that the early church had a somewhat 'open format' as we see in I Corinthians 14, where believers could use spiritual gifts to edify one another. We don't see the pulpit-pew format in that passage, the passage that goes into detail on what to do at church.
I believe if a church receives a prophecy that is a call to action, it should consider it. The Bible says to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge, or some would translate it, weigh carefully what is said. In Acts, Agabus signified by the Spirit that there would be a famine. The church must have evaluated what he said. They decided to send an offering to the poor saints in Judea. The probably knew how a famine would effect the poor saints there.
If it is an individual prophecy, you can seek input from the church especially if it was given in church, seek counsel from the elders of the church, seek counsel from godly individuals. If you are a wife or child you can ask your husband or father. In many cases, the decision is in the hands of the individual who received the prophecy.
If you receive a prophecy and it doesn't confirm what you heard from God before, and you aren't sensing it 'bears witness', then what do you do?
We should not just reject it because of a man-made hermenuetic or heuristic that directive prophecies are always confirmation. The Bible doesn't teach that.
There are many examples of personal, directive and predictive prophecies in the Bible. Agabus prophesied that Paul would be bound. Timothy had received some prophecies. He was to remember them, and by them fight a good warfare.
Paul wanted Timothy to actively seek to fulfill the directive prophecies spoken over him.
There are examples in the Old Testament of individuals trying to fulfill prophecies. Jehu seems to have had this motivation.
We also don't know what Timothy knew of his calling before he received a spiritual gift through prophecy with the laying on of hands of the elders. Someone prophesied, and through that prophecy, a spiritual gift was imparted to Timothy.
So when we consider how to decide on what to do with a directive prophecy, and you don't have a clue, and it is your responsibility to make the decision (not your parent's, husband's, church elders', boss's etc. responsibility), then treat it like you would any other major decision.
You are responsible for your own decisions. So if you decide to accept a true prophecy and act on it, you are responsible for that. If you reject a true prophecy, you are responsible for that. If you accept a false prophecy, you are responsible for that. If you accept a false prophecy, you are responsible for that. You are responsible before God?
How can we make decisions? The Bible says to trust in the LORD with all your heart, lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths.
You can pray and read the Bible to see if God has revealed anything already and if the prophecy conforms to the teaching of scripture. Repent of any sins and make things right with other people. Those sorts of things can hinder. Then you can talk to the Lord in prayer. Tell him about about this prophecy and why you think it is real or not real. Ask for wisdom. You are guaranteed to receive it if you ask in faith without doubting as per James 1. Then make your decision and tell God what you plan to do, and ask Him to change your mind or stop you if you are wrong.
Then go out in faith and do it. I've gone through this process and come out absolutely convinced that the decision I made was from the Lord. Ironically, within a couple of days, someone prophesied something that confirmed my decision on that particular occasion. You may also go through this and realize your decision is wrong and you don't have peace about it.
If it's a prophecy that is not confirmation and you aren't sensing anything, sometimes it makes more sense to follow the prophecy. Let's say someone prophecied to you to give some money to the poor, which you can afford to give. Why not obey that? That would be a good thing to do whether someone prophesied to you or not. And a reminder to be generous to the poor is very much in line with the scriptures.
In my experience, most prophecies are not directive, and personal prophecies that are predictive and directive that I have heard have not generally been heavy handed as far as directing people. Many of them seem to be medium to long term from the perspective of us short-lived humans. A lot of prophecies are to the congregation and remind them of truths in the Bible that are applicable to them at that point in time.
We should not just reject it because of a man-made hermenuetic or heuristic that directive prophecies are always confirmation. The Bible doesn't teach that.
There are many examples of personal, directive and predictive prophecies in the Bible. Agabus prophesied that Paul would be bound. Timothy had received some prophecies. He was to remember them, and by them fight a good warfare.
Paul wanted Timothy to actively seek to fulfill the directive prophecies spoken over him.
There are examples in the Old Testament of individuals trying to fulfill prophecies. Jehu seems to have had this motivation.
We also don't know what Timothy knew of his calling before he received a spiritual gift through prophecy with the laying on of hands of the elders. Someone prophesied, and through that prophecy, a spiritual gift was imparted to Timothy.
So when we consider how to decide on what to do with a directive prophecy, and you don't have a clue, and it is your responsibility to make the decision (not your parent's, husband's, church elders', boss's etc. responsibility), then treat it like you would any other major decision.
You are responsible for your own decisions. So if you decide to accept a true prophecy and act on it, you are responsible for that. If you reject a true prophecy, you are responsible for that. If you accept a false prophecy, you are responsible for that. If you accept a false prophecy, you are responsible for that. You are responsible before God?
How can we make decisions? The Bible says to trust in the LORD with all your heart, lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths.
You can pray and read the Bible to see if God has revealed anything already and if the prophecy conforms to the teaching of scripture. Repent of any sins and make things right with other people. Those sorts of things can hinder. Then you can talk to the Lord in prayer. Tell him about about this prophecy and why you think it is real or not real. Ask for wisdom. You are guaranteed to receive it if you ask in faith without doubting as per James 1. Then make your decision and tell God what you plan to do, and ask Him to change your mind or stop you if you are wrong.
Then go out in faith and do it. I've gone through this process and come out absolutely convinced that the decision I made was from the Lord. Ironically, within a couple of days, someone prophesied something that confirmed my decision on that particular occasion. You may also go through this and realize your decision is wrong and you don't have peace about it.
If it's a prophecy that is not confirmation and you aren't sensing anything, sometimes it makes more sense to follow the prophecy. Let's say someone prophecied to you to give some money to the poor, which you can afford to give. Why not obey that? That would be a good thing to do whether someone prophesied to you or not. And a reminder to be generous to the poor is very much in line with the scriptures.
In my experience, most prophecies are not directive, and personal prophecies that are predictive and directive that I have heard have not generally been heavy handed as far as directing people. Many of them seem to be medium to long term from the perspective of us short-lived humans. A lot of prophecies are to the congregation and remind them of truths in the Bible that are applicable to them at that point in time.
I am not an advocate of 'personal prophecy' ... maybe in part because I have seen it so abused...
I think it is far better to get directives from the Lord and confirmation from people...I think that should be the order of things
I don't think we should be guided by so called personal prophecy...what part does the Holy Spirit play in a person's life in that case?
I'm really not comfortable with it at all...
I think it is far better to get directives from the Lord and confirmation from people...I think that should be the order of things
I don't think we should be guided by so called personal prophecy...what part does the Holy Spirit play in a person's life in that case?
I'm really not comfortable with it at all...
It is nice if it is confirmation, but what if God wants to do things a little differently. There are plenty of examples of prophecies in the Bible that did not seem to be confirmation to the individual who received it.
Isn't this overlooking that fact that real, genuine prophecies come from the Holy Spirit? I Corinthians 12 teaches we are different parts of the body with different gifts and we need each other? There are also quite a number of directive personal prophecies in the Old Testament, and Paul wanted Timothy to actively work to fulfill some personal directive prophecies over him.
I Timothy 1:18
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
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Maybe you should have listened to the man in the dream, and the dream reminded you of your own opinion on the matter.
The Bible does not teach that you get everything from God directly to you. Some American evangelicals have this 'Jesus and me' idea of religion. We've made up a phrase used to evangelize, 'A personal relationship with Jesus Christ' and terms like 'personal Savior.' If Jesus is your personal Savior, what's He doing saving all these other people? Your personal computer is yours. Other people aren't allowed to use it without your permission.
So we have this individualistic idea of religion that seeps into our terminology and our way of thinking. And some people don't want to go to church because they take this evangelical mindset and run with it. They think they can just be alone with Jesus and don't need the church.
But read I Corinthians 12. We are all parts of the body. One part of the body does not say to another, "I have no need of thee.' And our roles with our spiritual gifts, including prophecy, are like being different parts of the body. The hand feeds the mouth. The mouth chews the food which strengthens the body. The legs and feet move us around where we need to go.
Also, prophets, among other ministers, are needed to equip the saints for works of service.
The Bible shows many examples of one part of the body minister to another part. If someone prophesies something from God, why is that worse than if I heard it directly? If it is from the Spirit of God, why is it so different if it comes through someone else instead of directly to me?
The Bible does not teach that you get everything from God directly to you. Some American evangelicals have this 'Jesus and me' idea of religion. We've made up a phrase used to evangelize, 'A personal relationship with Jesus Christ' and terms like 'personal Savior.' If Jesus is your personal Savior, what's He doing saving all these other people? Your personal computer is yours. Other people aren't allowed to use it without your permission.
So we have this individualistic idea of religion that seeps into our terminology and our way of thinking. And some people don't want to go to church because they take this evangelical mindset and run with it. They think they can just be alone with Jesus and don't need the church.
But read I Corinthians 12. We are all parts of the body. One part of the body does not say to another, "I have no need of thee.' And our roles with our spiritual gifts, including prophecy, are like being different parts of the body. The hand feeds the mouth. The mouth chews the food which strengthens the body. The legs and feet move us around where we need to go.
Also, prophets, among other ministers, are needed to equip the saints for works of service.
The Bible shows many examples of one part of the body minister to another part. If someone prophesies something from God, why is that worse than if I heard it directly? If it is from the Spirit of God, why is it so different if it comes through someone else instead of directly to me?
I am a bit surprised at this position of yours. It doesn't seem consistent with my impression of your belief system.
Can you support what you say from scripture? I can't see where New Testament prophets were bound by Old Testament prophecies. And I can't see where the Bible limits the content of prophecies going forward after the end of the New Testament.
You apparently do allow for words of knowledge that are 'new information.' You would allow for the idea of someone interceding in tongues about any situation, including a job or co-workers at Walmart, right? What about interpretation of tongues? Do you think they can be something other than scripture?
Anyway, I can't think of any scripture in the Bible that supports your assertion. But looking at I Corinthians 14, I see that the hypothetical unbeliever or unlearned person who goes to church and all prophesy, hears the secrets of his heart made manifest. Does that sound like the sort of thing you'd put in the 'word of knowledge' category?
My understanding of genuine prophecy, if it is of the spoken variety, is that it occurs when individuals are moved to speak by the Holy Ghost. It is revelatory, as Paul writes, 'if a revelation cometh to one sitting by.
Can you support what you say from scripture? I can't see where New Testament prophets were bound by Old Testament prophecies. And I can't see where the Bible limits the content of prophecies going forward after the end of the New Testament.
You apparently do allow for words of knowledge that are 'new information.' You would allow for the idea of someone interceding in tongues about any situation, including a job or co-workers at Walmart, right? What about interpretation of tongues? Do you think they can be something other than scripture?
Anyway, I can't think of any scripture in the Bible that supports your assertion. But looking at I Corinthians 14, I see that the hypothetical unbeliever or unlearned person who goes to church and all prophesy, hears the secrets of his heart made manifest. Does that sound like the sort of thing you'd put in the 'word of knowledge' category?
My understanding of genuine prophecy, if it is of the spoken variety, is that it occurs when individuals are moved to speak by the Holy Ghost. It is revelatory, as Paul writes, 'if a revelation cometh to one sitting by.
The idea of a 'buckshot' prophecy came up, where someone says something generic and looks at the congregation for a response, I suppose.
I'd imagine it is possible to do that. And there are some men who seem to be con artists on TV hawking vials of 'holy' water or oil or salt in exchange for donations of specific amounts of money, and things like that. One of them apparently had an ear piece set up where his wife would read prayer cards.
But I can tell you that I have witnessed prophecies and words of knowledge that are obviously supernatural. When someone responds to what you just thought in a prophecy, that's pretty supernatural. It's subjective because you don't have a transcript of your thoughts, but to the individual, that is rather impressive.
I also saw one may who prophesied in great detail over dozens of people for hours. I knew a few people from the church where he was a guest speaker, but I hadn't told them my father was an electrician or that my parents were wanting to build a home. His lengthy prophecies and words of knowlelge which flowed as he prayed went into specific detail on my parent's lives and other issues besides these as well. Some of the things he prayed about, I would understand when I heard it, but other people wouldn't. And there may have been details they understood, but I did not.
That is one of the interesting things about prophesying, is that the individual receiving may understand it on a much deeper level.
I went to a home group where we'd pray for each other afterward. I started doing this thing where I was praying about details of the person's life. At first I didn't realize what was going on until people told me about it. Then I realized I was praying these 'impressions' for lack of a better word. I think of it now in terms of the word of knowledge. One time I was praying for this Indian man I did not really know, who went to my church. I had just found out he lived in my apartment complex, so we got to know each other after that.
So he was at an altar call, and I was praying for him. I prayed as I felt led. I for the Lord to provide him with a car. I prayed about what he was doing in the US, and back in India. He told me later that his used car was making a squeeking noise and he needed to get another one. He did shortly after that. He got another used car. (He was a grad student, and from experience as a grad student then too, I can see how such an issue would weigh on someone in his situation.) He said when he prayed silently about issues in the US, I started praying for them, and when he prayed about India, I prayed about India as well.
Prophecies can be similar. I've experienced prophecies that seemed to answer the thoughts that were going through my mind.
There are also the situations where you go to one place where no one knows you and they prophesy something about you that they couldn't naturally know. Then you go elsewhere, and they prophecy that same thing. Sometimes it can happen more than twice. Paul said the Spirit witnessed in every city of bonds and affliction that awaited him. Fortunately for me, the prophecies I heard repeated like that did not seem as negative.
I'd imagine it is possible to do that. And there are some men who seem to be con artists on TV hawking vials of 'holy' water or oil or salt in exchange for donations of specific amounts of money, and things like that. One of them apparently had an ear piece set up where his wife would read prayer cards.
But I can tell you that I have witnessed prophecies and words of knowledge that are obviously supernatural. When someone responds to what you just thought in a prophecy, that's pretty supernatural. It's subjective because you don't have a transcript of your thoughts, but to the individual, that is rather impressive.
I also saw one may who prophesied in great detail over dozens of people for hours. I knew a few people from the church where he was a guest speaker, but I hadn't told them my father was an electrician or that my parents were wanting to build a home. His lengthy prophecies and words of knowlelge which flowed as he prayed went into specific detail on my parent's lives and other issues besides these as well. Some of the things he prayed about, I would understand when I heard it, but other people wouldn't. And there may have been details they understood, but I did not.
That is one of the interesting things about prophesying, is that the individual receiving may understand it on a much deeper level.
I went to a home group where we'd pray for each other afterward. I started doing this thing where I was praying about details of the person's life. At first I didn't realize what was going on until people told me about it. Then I realized I was praying these 'impressions' for lack of a better word. I think of it now in terms of the word of knowledge. One time I was praying for this Indian man I did not really know, who went to my church. I had just found out he lived in my apartment complex, so we got to know each other after that.
So he was at an altar call, and I was praying for him. I prayed as I felt led. I for the Lord to provide him with a car. I prayed about what he was doing in the US, and back in India. He told me later that his used car was making a squeeking noise and he needed to get another one. He did shortly after that. He got another used car. (He was a grad student, and from experience as a grad student then too, I can see how such an issue would weigh on someone in his situation.) He said when he prayed silently about issues in the US, I started praying for them, and when he prayed about India, I prayed about India as well.
Prophecies can be similar. I've experienced prophecies that seemed to answer the thoughts that were going through my mind.
There are also the situations where you go to one place where no one knows you and they prophesy something about you that they couldn't naturally know. Then you go elsewhere, and they prophecy that same thing. Sometimes it can happen more than twice. Paul said the Spirit witnessed in every city of bonds and affliction that awaited him. Fortunately for me, the prophecies I heard repeated like that did not seem as negative.