Should Christians challenge supernatural claims.

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May 13, 2017
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We do not live in an age of the miraculous.

In the scriptures, the periods of physical supernatural phenomenon were few and far between.

When they were active the world was turned upside down. An honest and open-minded exam of the "proof" of our living in such an age will show that we are not.

All the tongue talking and headache healings will not change this fact.

Was the miraculous active during the time and places of Jesus and the Apostles, of course. The Bible well documents this. The Word of God both teaches this and convicts our hearts to this truth. Have these acts ended, of course. Not because the Bible tells us but because the same senses that looked upon the first miracles with awe now tell us those same events have ended. You can try to prove otherwise but it will be a fruitless endeavor, an attempt to catch the wind.

No appeal to even the most scholarly discourse will change this fact. No amount of anecdotal banter will prove otherwise. The evidence presented as proof of the miraculous is on par with that presented as proof of bigfoot or space aliens. None are convincing, except to those who wish to believe it.

Those who insist that the miraculous is upon us do a great disservice to Jesus's call for faith apart from sight. Pentecostals and charismatics are but making bogus claims of the supernatural instead of what Jesus really taught. Faith, not faith by miracles but faith without miracles. It is long time for them to admit their emperor is naked.

We all know the scriptures I am speaking about:

Hebrews 11:1, Romans 1:17 & Romans 8:24, 2nd Corinthians 4:18 & 5:7.

We should not fear this lack of the miraculous but rejoice in the knowledge of our faith being strong without it.
(John 20:24-29)

Unless of course your faith is based on these claims of the miraculous being true.


Wow! I'll just say one thing..If you do not believe that we live in the age of the miraculous, then you either do not know the Word, or you do not believe it...Probably both Sorry...The Word is full of the miraculous.
 
May 13, 2017
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Is the age of the miraculous past.....
Mark 16:20
And they went out and proclaimed everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the message by the accompanying signs.
Believers proclaimed the Word, and the Word confirmed with miracles.

If you do not see it today its from a lack of belief in the Word. Not a lack of faith but a lack of belief
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Wow! I'll just say one thing..If you do not believe that we live in the age of the miraculous, then you either do not know the Word, or you do not believe it...Probably both Sorry...The Word is full of the miraculous.
As I clearly stated the Bible documents the miraculous. Has the miraculous been going on for the last two thousand years, if you say yes I am interested I knowing way you think this. To claim such a thing is simple, to prove it is not.

If your words are but a baseless claim we are done, but if you can prove your words I am a eager to listen.

So far you have proven nothing, please show why you think our present era is miraculous.

If we are living in an age of the miraculous it should be rather easy to prove.
 
May 13, 2017
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As I clearly stated the Bible documents the miraculous. Has the miraculous been going on for the last two thousand years, if you say yes I am interested I knowing way you think this. To claim such a thing is simple, to prove it is not.

If your words are but a baseless claim we are done, but if you can prove your words I am a eager to listen.

So far you have proven nothing, please show why you think our present era is miraculous.

If we are living in an age of the miraculous it should be rather easy to prove.
YES!! I know because I see it all the time. I have experienced it and have ministered it. And the Word says it will happen. Mark 16:17 You need to believe before you see.
:
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
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Is the age of the miraculous past.....
Mark 16:20
And they went out and proclaimed everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the message by the accompanying signs.
Believers proclaimed the Word, and the Word confirmed with miracles.

If you do not see it today its from a lack of belief in the Word. Not a lack of faith but a lack of belief
Please do not attempt to imply I do not believe the Word, I most certainly do. Your comment is not warranted or welcome. If you have nothing to say about my post other then "I lack belief", fine but I also lack "belief" in bigfoot and space aliens. Should I be concerned about this also?

Is bigfoot out there, but I cannot see it because of my lack of "belief"?
 
Feb 5, 2017
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Belief isn't everything. Knowing is everything.

Please do not attempt to imply I do not believe the Word, I most certainly do. Your comment is not warranted or welcome. If you have nothing to say about my post other then "I lack belief", fine but I also lack "belief" in bigfoot and space aliens. Should I be concerned about this also?

Is bigfoot out there, but I cannot see it because of my lack of "belief"?
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
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YES!! I know because I see it all the time. I have experienced it and have ministered it. And the Word says it will happen. Mark 16:17 You need to believe before you see.
:
You see the miraculous "all the time". How do you define the miraculous? I really would like to know, maybe I am seeing the miraculous also and don't know it.

"You need to believe before you see." Did those who poured water into vases believe before they saw the wine? What is real does not need to be believed to be seen.
 
May 13, 2017
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Please do not attempt to imply I do not believe the Word, I most certainly do. Your comment is not warranted or welcome. If you have nothing to say about my post other then "I lack belief", fine but I also lack "belief" in bigfoot and space aliens. Should I be concerned about this also?

Is bigfoot out there, but I cannot see it because of my lack of "belief"?
DJ2 I implied nothing. I said it flat out. If you do not see all of the Word working today it's because you do not believe it. And you do not fully perceive the love of God for YOU. If that hurts your feelings, I'm sorry. However there is something you CAN do about it. Get to know Him the way He wants you to...Never mind how you want to. It's not about you. It's all about the KING

"I lack belief", fine but I also lack "belief" in bigfoot and space aliens. Should I be concerned about this also? Maybe....What you do not know CAN kill you. :)
 
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May 13, 2017
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You see the miraculous "all the time". How do you define the miraculous? I really would like to know, maybe I am seeing the miraculous also and don't know it.

"You need to believe before you see." Did those who poured water into vases believe before they saw the wine? What is real does not need to be believed to be seen.
Do you want to know? Or are you looking for a basis for an argument?
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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Do you want to know? Or are you looking for a basis for an argument?
Do you ever address the points of a post or just banter on and on?

Look at my posts, what points have you addressed?

You claim to be both surrounded by the miraculous and actually ministering it. But can show no evidence of any of it or even willing to define it. Willing to rant about the subject but nothing more.

Any open-minded person would call your claims a hoax.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Thank you also for your reply, but how does your words apply to the claims of posts # 166 & 169 that their individual claims of salvation were physical supernatural events?

Magenta and graceNpeace are labeling claims of salvation as physical supernatural events. How can a claim of anything be labeled as a physical supernatural event?
I don’t think Magenta was claiming a physical supernatural conversion as an outward sign of an eternal healing in respect to that seen “these bodies of death” knowing we will receive incorruptible bodies .All saints die having not received the promise, but more of a daily living faith receiving the end of our faith the salvation of our soul moment by moment.

She wrote… My faith is based in Jesus supernaturally revealing Himself to me, just as Scriptures promised He would.

But you would have to ask her The supernatural she was speaking of seemed to be by faith the unseen living hope.

God does not heal with human hands as if he needed anything form the clay he forms Christ in all healing are performed by God none of them prove without doubt they had to with salvation of our soul. as evidence a person has the Spirit of Christ
 
May 13, 2017
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Do you ever address the points of a post or just banter on and on?

Look at my posts, what points have you addressed?

You claim to be both surrounded by the miraculous and actually ministering it. But can show no evidence of any of it or even willing to define it. Willing to rant about the subject but nothing more.

Any open-minded person would call your claims a hoax.
I'm sorry. Based on the way you talk, that is with a lot of arguing and sarcasm, I really do not trust your motives for asking.

I've already given you one scriputure....Mark 16:20 When you believe what God said things happen. Things like healing. Things like, a person needs a car and someone who doesn't even know them, gives them a car, debt cancellation to the tune of thousands of dollars. On and on, things that just do not happen in this world, but do anyway. Needs, that nobody knows about, with the exception of the person with the needs, get met. Name it. Our God will meet all the needs and many of the wants of His kids who are ready to believe HIM. The world says "Seeing is believing." God says "Believing is seeing." And you, my dear friend, get to choose which way you want it. The worlds way.....Or Gods way.

Now call it a hoax....It will not affect my life at all. Only yours.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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I'm sorry. Based on the way you talk, that is with a lot of arguing and sarcasm, I really do not trust your motives for asking.

I've already given you one scriputure....Mark 16:20 When you believe what God said things happen. Things like healing. Things like, a person needs a car and someone who doesn't even know them, gives them a car, debt cancellation to the tune of thousands of dollars. On and on, things that just do not happen in this world, but do anyway. Needs, that nobody knows about, with the exception of the person with the needs, get met. Name it. Our God will meet all the needs and many of the wants of His kids who are ready to believe HIM. The world says "Seeing is believing." God says "Believing is seeing." And you, my dear friend, get to choose which way you want it. The worlds way.....Or Gods way.

Now call it a hoax....It will not affect my life at all. Only yours.
My writing is simple and direct, you see "arguing and sarcasm" because you have no response to my question. Concern about another's motives should not affect expressing a cogent reply to a simple question.

Mark 16:20 proves that the miraculous was active doing that time, it does not prove physical supernatural events are going on today. Proving the supernatural today is the same as proving it during the 1st century, by witnessing with clear and purposeful
events. Jesus purposely performed the miraculous for the people to witness. Today's miraculous is nothing of the sort.

People giving away cars and debt cancellation is not a physical supernatural example of the miraculous. If you think it is you truly do not understand the power of the miraculous. You need to reread the New Testament, look at the miraculous events and then understand the meaning of miraculous.

"Believing is seeing", no. Many saw the miraculous deals of Jesus and the Apostles but did not believe, surely you know this.

There is honestly nothing other to call your claims of seeing and ministering the miraculous then a hoax.
 
May 13, 2017
2,359
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My writing is simple and direct, you see "arguing and sarcasm" because you have no response to my question. Concern about another's motives should not affect expressing a cogent reply to a simple question.

Mark 16:20 proves that the miraculous was active doing that time, it does not prove physical supernatural events are going on today. Proving the supernatural today is the same as proving it during the 1st century, by witnessing with clear and purposeful
events. Jesus purposely performed the miraculous for the people to witness. Today's miraculous is nothing of the sort.

People giving away cars and debt cancellation is not a physical supernatural example of the miraculous. If you think it is you truly do not understand the power of the miraculous. You need to reread the New Testament, look at the miraculous events and then understand the meaning of miraculous.

"Believing is seeing", no. Many saw the miraculous deals of Jesus and the Apostles but did not believe, surely you know this.

There is honestly nothing other to call your claims of seeing and ministering the miraculous then a hoax.
As you wish.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
I don’t think Magenta was claiming a physical supernatural conversion as an outward sign of an eternal healing in respect to that seen “these bodies of death” knowing we will receive incorruptible bodies .All saints die having not received the promise, but more of a daily living faith receiving the end of our faith the salvation of our soul moment by moment.

She wrote… My faith is based in Jesus supernaturally revealing Himself to me, just as Scriptures promised He would.

But you would have to ask her The supernatural she was speaking of seemed to be by faith the unseen living hope.

God does not heal with human hands as if he needed anything form the clay he forms Christ in all healing are performed by God none of them prove without doubt they had to with salvation of our soul. as evidence a person has the Spirit of Christ
Her words were short, clear and to the point. If she meant something else let her defend her words.

Since you did not mention graceNpeace I assume I do agree about his meaning.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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My faith is based in Jesus supernaturally revealing
Himself to me, just as Scriptures promised He would.
Did your faith come before hearing the scriptures or after?