Should Christians contend for the faith?
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Im actually kinda glad you pointed this out btw, Ive noticed that not every debate is about the person you are arguing with. In fact, I think the majority of the time, it isnt : p
I definitely agree about a one on one conversation with a nonbeliever, although from my own experience, I was that person once : p I had a close friend who was a Christian who could defend why he believed in Christ, and whatever argument I made to him : p At the time I didnt take him seriously, but the things we talked about in my old life really helped me when I came to Christ. So I think there is good to be had there, too.
Also, wanted to address what you said about someone seeking debates, I dont believe that a desire to defend your faith = wanting to start arguments with people.
As for my signature, its about people who deal with such urges and thoughts but want to come to Christ. When I came to Him, I really felt the need for someone who knew what I struggled with, and since then I have decided that I would like to be able to be there for anyone who deals with the issue, too.
I definitely agree about a one on one conversation with a nonbeliever, although from my own experience, I was that person once : p I had a close friend who was a Christian who could defend why he believed in Christ, and whatever argument I made to him : p At the time I didnt take him seriously, but the things we talked about in my old life really helped me when I came to Christ. So I think there is good to be had there, too.
Also, wanted to address what you said about someone seeking debates, I dont believe that a desire to defend your faith = wanting to start arguments with people.
As for my signature, its about people who deal with such urges and thoughts but want to come to Christ. When I came to Him, I really felt the need for someone who knew what I struggled with, and since then I have decided that I would like to be able to be there for anyone who deals with the issue, too.
I, as well as many other Christians, were once these people too : p Not every Christian was born into and continued the faith : p
If you know someone who denies Christ and has arguments against Him, being able to defend your faith in Him can absolutely be a positive influence in their life somewhere down the road.
If you know someone who denies Christ and has arguments against Him, being able to defend your faith in Him can absolutely be a positive influence in their life somewhere down the road.
Aw, thats way awesome!
Ive definitely had that, too : p I was kinda forced into having to defend my faith, cuz the people I knew and were close to (other than one person) was an atheist who did not have kind thoughts of Christ : p
I have definitely had times where I didnt know how to respond, and felt helpless for it, too : p But I prayed for help when I did, and I absolutely believe that God guided me to good answers, haha.
Theres totally no shame in saying you dont know the subject yet, but will look into it. Many people will become prideful for it (its happened to me before too), but even still, its a good thing to step back and look into it yourself : p
Thanks for the response : p Dont be afraid to look for yourself, I have, and I feel happy that I did, haha.
Ive definitely had that, too : p I was kinda forced into having to defend my faith, cuz the people I knew and were close to (other than one person) was an atheist who did not have kind thoughts of Christ : p
I have definitely had times where I didnt know how to respond, and felt helpless for it, too : p But I prayed for help when I did, and I absolutely believe that God guided me to good answers, haha.
Theres totally no shame in saying you dont know the subject yet, but will look into it. Many people will become prideful for it (its happened to me before too), but even still, its a good thing to step back and look into it yourself : p
Thanks for the response : p Dont be afraid to look for yourself, I have, and I feel happy that I did, haha.
I wanted to apologize if my last post in response to this sounded as if I was talking down to you btw, Im responding to these quikcly instead of waiting for a better time to really think before I post. I hope I didnt come off as if I am wiser than you or anything. I was just encouraged by your post cuz it mirrors my life and experience too : p
I was just excited by someone who understands the kind of stuff Im talking about and junk.
I was just excited by someone who understands the kind of stuff Im talking about and junk.
Knowledge in the Bible is totally important, two common arguments I recieve are that God supports slavery and that if a man rapes a woman he only has to pay the father 50 pieces of silver and marry her, neither f which are true : p
But you are absolutely right. When I talk with people about the issue of homosexuality, the question "why is it wrong" always comes up. As in, why would God be against it. Rather than just say "Because God has said it is", which of course is entirely true, I know that they arent going to accept the authority of the Bible, and use reason to show why it is wrong.
There is a reason why God is against it, I do not believe He just randomly decided to tell us not to do it : p
But you are absolutely right. When I talk with people about the issue of homosexuality, the question "why is it wrong" always comes up. As in, why would God be against it. Rather than just say "Because God has said it is", which of course is entirely true, I know that they arent going to accept the authority of the Bible, and use reason to show why it is wrong.
There is a reason why God is against it, I do not believe He just randomly decided to tell us not to do it : p
con·tend
Jesus defended Himself when He was confronted by the pharisees.
You claim that anyone who wants to defend their faith merely wants to rub it in other peoples faces and be proudful for being the best. But you are only painting those who do want to defend their faith in such a way to defend your stance.
Such people exist in the Christian community, of course. But to claim that everyone is this way is just not true.
struggle to surmount (a difficulty or danger):
- engage in a competition or campaign in order to win or achieve (something):
- engage in a competition or campaign in order to win or achieve (something):
- assert something as a position in an argument:
Jesus defended Himself when He was confronted by the pharisees.
You claim that anyone who wants to defend their faith merely wants to rub it in other peoples faces and be proudful for being the best. But you are only painting those who do want to defend their faith in such a way to defend your stance.
Such people exist in the Christian community, of course. But to claim that everyone is this way is just not true.
If Jude gave that exhortation then, it means that it is still applicable today. So what does that word "contend" mean?
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epagónizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I contend earnestly for
Definition: I contend earnestly for.
HELPS Word-studies
1864 epagōnízomai (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" and73 /agṓn, "a contest, competition") – properly, to contend (literally, "struggle upon, appropriately"), i.e. with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith (God's persuasion).
At the very least, this means that Christians should have absolutely no doubt that the Bible is the Word of God, and the only true Word of God (as opposed to the Quran, the Book of Mormon, and any other so-called Scriptures). Secondly they should have a solid grasp of the Gospel itself. But "the faith" includes all sound Bible doctrine. So if believers are to "earnestly" contend for the faith, they they must firstly study the Word diligently as indicated in 2 Timothy 2:15.
Genuine Christians should also be fully aware that some of their opponents will actually be false Christians. It is the apostate theologians and clergymen who are the most dedicated to attacking the Bible and attacking every Bible doctrine. Check out "the Jesus Seminar", which should properly be labeled "the anti-Jesus Seminar". They would sooner support the Islamists than believe the Bible.
Strong's Concordance
epagónizomai: to contend with or for
Original Word: ἐπαγωνίζομαιPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epagónizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee)
Short Definition: I contend earnestly for
Definition: I contend earnestly for.
HELPS Word-studies
1864 epagōnízomai (from 1909 /epí, "focused on" and73 /agṓn, "a contest, competition") – properly, to contend (literally, "struggle upon, appropriately"), i.e. with skill and commitment in opposing whatever is not of faith (God's persuasion).
At the very least, this means that Christians should have absolutely no doubt that the Bible is the Word of God, and the only true Word of God (as opposed to the Quran, the Book of Mormon, and any other so-called Scriptures). Secondly they should have a solid grasp of the Gospel itself. But "the faith" includes all sound Bible doctrine. So if believers are to "earnestly" contend for the faith, they they must firstly study the Word diligently as indicated in 2 Timothy 2:15.
Genuine Christians should also be fully aware that some of their opponents will actually be false Christians. It is the apostate theologians and clergymen who are the most dedicated to attacking the Bible and attacking every Bible doctrine. Check out "the Jesus Seminar", which should properly be labeled "the anti-Jesus Seminar". They would sooner support the Islamists than believe the Bible.
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Friends.. remember this:
Matthew 8
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. 29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? 30And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. 31So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. 32And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. 33And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils. 34And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.
Not everyone welcomes the light and prefers darkness...
In this age you can be stoned for not accepting lgbt as norm... so you are going to be hated and called much and remember the Messiah taught not to cast pearls to the swine.. I'm not saying who is swine but if a person prefers darkness then the teaching is to be considered and retreat.
Religion is going to be outed in place of rainbow rules... think back to the dark times of Noah.. the rainbow is a sign that GOD will not flood the earth.. and darkness is trying to use that to justify evil.. think what the lgbt symbol is.
GOD is going to make all things new and the Harvest will separate those who have Repented and believe and those that have not.
Be for GOD always knowing that if they reject your Master they will reject you... but not all reject so for those souls and the Glory of GOD hold fast.
Matthew 8
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. 29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? 30And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. 31So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. 32And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. 33And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils. 34And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.
Not everyone welcomes the light and prefers darkness...
In this age you can be stoned for not accepting lgbt as norm... so you are going to be hated and called much and remember the Messiah taught not to cast pearls to the swine.. I'm not saying who is swine but if a person prefers darkness then the teaching is to be considered and retreat.
Religion is going to be outed in place of rainbow rules... think back to the dark times of Noah.. the rainbow is a sign that GOD will not flood the earth.. and darkness is trying to use that to justify evil.. think what the lgbt symbol is.
GOD is going to make all things new and the Harvest will separate those who have Repented and believe and those that have not.
Be for GOD always knowing that if they reject your Master they will reject you... but not all reject so for those souls and the Glory of GOD hold fast.
D
Apologetics is like evangelism. It's good to be ready if the occasion comes up, but that doesn't mean everyone is gifted in it.
I admire the woman who brought hubby to the Lord. Future-hubby (since I didn't know him back then) was the quintessential argumentative, arrogant, atheistic ass we've all met somewhere in our lives. Worse than most, because he had spent a couple of years studying the different religions of the world, and picked up a bit of healing through meditation in the process. (It works.) And he thought it was his duty to pull Christians away from the Lord. (He was good at it for the nominal christian too.)
The woman who brought him to the Lord was the wife of his co-worker/friend, and co-worker invited him (and his then-wife) to dinner. He spent the night arguing scripture with her, because he also memorized the usual scriptural arguments atheist just google nowadays. But she knew the Bible inside out and backwards, so every scripture he came up with, she could find (and this is in the days before at-home computers) and read in context to disprove his theory.
Three weeks of that, and each night he was angrier and angrier. And, it didn't help that she had a women's bible study, so her friends were praying that his self-healing would stop working. (He's allergic to chemical cleaners, but he was an HVAC mechanic so had to use them all the time. He had a rash on his hands that he could meditate away. When her friends started praying, not only did the rash not go away, it went up his arms. Peachy keen, arrogant atheist who itched and bled. lol)
On that last night on the way home, for the first time, he contemplated killing her. Last night, because the next morning he woke up regenerated -- born again.
Let's just say, because of that I have a special place in my heart for apologetic. I do contend for the faith, although I think it's more of a hobby than a gift. We all need to. We just don't know if God will place his next kid in front of us to be saved.
I also find it comes in handy with supposed Christians too. We also don't really know if the Christian we're talking to really is a Christian or just thinks he/she is.
And it also comes in handy for edifying the saints too.
No down side to contending, until we discover we can't. Which, if we are believers isn't a downside either. It's a good reason to learn more.
I admire the woman who brought hubby to the Lord. Future-hubby (since I didn't know him back then) was the quintessential argumentative, arrogant, atheistic ass we've all met somewhere in our lives. Worse than most, because he had spent a couple of years studying the different religions of the world, and picked up a bit of healing through meditation in the process. (It works.) And he thought it was his duty to pull Christians away from the Lord. (He was good at it for the nominal christian too.)
The woman who brought him to the Lord was the wife of his co-worker/friend, and co-worker invited him (and his then-wife) to dinner. He spent the night arguing scripture with her, because he also memorized the usual scriptural arguments atheist just google nowadays. But she knew the Bible inside out and backwards, so every scripture he came up with, she could find (and this is in the days before at-home computers) and read in context to disprove his theory.
Three weeks of that, and each night he was angrier and angrier. And, it didn't help that she had a women's bible study, so her friends were praying that his self-healing would stop working. (He's allergic to chemical cleaners, but he was an HVAC mechanic so had to use them all the time. He had a rash on his hands that he could meditate away. When her friends started praying, not only did the rash not go away, it went up his arms. Peachy keen, arrogant atheist who itched and bled. lol)
On that last night on the way home, for the first time, he contemplated killing her. Last night, because the next morning he woke up regenerated -- born again.
Let's just say, because of that I have a special place in my heart for apologetic. I do contend for the faith, although I think it's more of a hobby than a gift. We all need to. We just don't know if God will place his next kid in front of us to be saved.
I also find it comes in handy with supposed Christians too. We also don't really know if the Christian we're talking to really is a Christian or just thinks he/she is.
And it also comes in handy for edifying the saints too.
No down side to contending, until we discover we can't. Which, if we are believers isn't a downside either. It's a good reason to learn more.
The Lord gave all of us a commission. Our commission is to be witnesses to the world for and of Him. Mat 28 if you need to confirm the call to be witnesses.
We need not be polished apologists only be able to articulate what Christ has done for us and what He will do for others who call upon Him for salvation. Just give a testimony of how each has come to Christ and how your life has changed since you were saved. No need to give a doctoral dissertation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We need not be polished apologists only be able to articulate what Christ has done for us and what He will do for others who call upon Him for salvation. Just give a testimony of how each has come to Christ and how your life has changed since you were saved. No need to give a doctoral dissertation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The use of the Bible is for them to understand why you believe in Him as your personal testimony is how you apply your faith & hope in Jesus Christ and what He has done for you so that others may hope in Him to believe in him too.
When conversion is not done by the persuasion of a man's speech, but by the Spirit's power, then even stutterers can witness depending on Him to provide the seed for the sower and water for the water of what is needed for God to cause the increase by.
But yes, when "debating" with non-Christians, the Lord may lead you to other knowledge for them to reconsider their beliefs to lean towards your belief by the scripture & your personal testimony of your hope in Christ for what He has done for you & not just having given you eternal life. They may look at their sinful state in how they are getting worse & worse and place their hope in Him to call on Him to be saved from their self destructive sins as well as receive eternal life by God's grace.
Every situation is different, but we can trust the Lord in being our Good Shepherd to know when to share or not to share and even when to debate or not to debate.
Psalm 37:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
Matthew 7:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Acts 16:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,[SUP]7 [/SUP]After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
It is very possible with all the false teaching that are out there on how any one is saved, they may not have heard the real gospel of Jesus Christ in why He is the Good News to man.
A lady I had used to work with had thought she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus. I do not know what turned her away into thinking like that, but I can imagine the altar call to make a commitment to follow Christ can be an example to cause sinners to walk away from Him when they do not see it in themselves to make such a commitment when they are being honest about how sinful they are for they do the things that they would not... and not do the things that they should.
I had told her that THAT was what Jesus Christ came to do.. not just give us eternal life but to save us from our sins, and that she could come to Him now to be saved by Him and He will help her to follow Him.
But when it comes to debate... yeah... if they are open to the discussion in not being a mocker about it, but even then, trust the Lord to lead you as to when to share & when not to share, because not every debater is even interested in seeking the truth if they are only interested in taking away your faith in Him or somehow make you look ignorant about some knowledge outside of the Bible that he thinks is true as the world does, but not in according to the word of God.
We walk by faith... and so that is how we should minister too. And if we make mistakes and find ourselves in a heated debate, one can rely on Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to provide the escape to walk away before it gets violent while praying to the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do, even when if by some chance, they are killing us.
When conversion is not done by the persuasion of a man's speech, but by the Spirit's power, then even stutterers can witness depending on Him to provide the seed for the sower and water for the water of what is needed for God to cause the increase by.
But yes, when "debating" with non-Christians, the Lord may lead you to other knowledge for them to reconsider their beliefs to lean towards your belief by the scripture & your personal testimony of your hope in Christ for what He has done for you & not just having given you eternal life. They may look at their sinful state in how they are getting worse & worse and place their hope in Him to call on Him to be saved from their self destructive sins as well as receive eternal life by God's grace.
Every situation is different, but we can trust the Lord in being our Good Shepherd to know when to share or not to share and even when to debate or not to debate.
Psalm 37:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
Matthew 7:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Acts 16:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,[SUP]7 [/SUP]After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
It is very possible with all the false teaching that are out there on how any one is saved, they may not have heard the real gospel of Jesus Christ in why He is the Good News to man.
A lady I had used to work with had thought she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus. I do not know what turned her away into thinking like that, but I can imagine the altar call to make a commitment to follow Christ can be an example to cause sinners to walk away from Him when they do not see it in themselves to make such a commitment when they are being honest about how sinful they are for they do the things that they would not... and not do the things that they should.
I had told her that THAT was what Jesus Christ came to do.. not just give us eternal life but to save us from our sins, and that she could come to Him now to be saved by Him and He will help her to follow Him.
But when it comes to debate... yeah... if they are open to the discussion in not being a mocker about it, but even then, trust the Lord to lead you as to when to share & when not to share, because not every debater is even interested in seeking the truth if they are only interested in taking away your faith in Him or somehow make you look ignorant about some knowledge outside of the Bible that he thinks is true as the world does, but not in according to the word of God.
We walk by faith... and so that is how we should minister too. And if we make mistakes and find ourselves in a heated debate, one can rely on Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to provide the escape to walk away before it gets violent while praying to the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do, even when if by some chance, they are killing us.
R
I had a lunch date with a Christian friend today. On the way there I kept meditating on this thread. I didn't mention anything about it to my friend. Through the whole meal, she kept making comments directly related to this topic. God has used you and my friend to reshape my thinking. I can't help it if a person receives my message or not. I have offer the message either way, and then they will answer for what they do with it.
I'm going to work on my willingness to promote the Word.
I'm going to work on my willingness to promote the Word.
I don't know how Wisdom defines contend but I can tell you the Greek word is a compound verb "epagonizomai, and this word is only found in this text. The word comes from the fierce compition of the athletic field. Beleivers must fight, strive, strugle for the faith. In fact, it's where we get the English transliteration "agonize."
This "agonizing" is what the Apostle Paul was talking about at Acts 20:28-31. Now, there's another interesting aspect to this verse where it says, "Once for all delievered to the saints." This means the message of Christianity was given to the Church at the beginning; it had not come in instgallments. This shoots down some of the cults like "Moromonism" which of course they have the Book of Mormon which is to them "another" testament. There is no other testament execpt the Bible.
In fact when I witness to Mornmons to them I ask them to please tell what you prophets are going to tell that is not already in the Bible? So there you go deanaii, you agonize for the faith once for all delievered to the saints and I don't mean Word of faith teachings.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
This "agonizing" is what the Apostle Paul was talking about at Acts 20:28-31. Now, there's another interesting aspect to this verse where it says, "Once for all delievered to the saints." This means the message of Christianity was given to the Church at the beginning; it had not come in instgallments. This shoots down some of the cults like "Moromonism" which of course they have the Book of Mormon which is to them "another" testament. There is no other testament execpt the Bible.
In fact when I witness to Mornmons to them I ask them to please tell what you prophets are going to tell that is not already in the Bible? So there you go deanaii, you agonize for the faith once for all delievered to the saints and I don't mean Word of faith teachings.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto