Should we pray for God's justice? Imprecatory prayers.

[Bookends]

In scripture in various places in scripture you have the righteous people praying for God's judgment to fall upon their enemies. You find a lot of this going in the Psalms of David while Saul and others chased him around seeking to kill him (Psalms 54:5, Psalms 55:8-9, *Psalms 59:1-5*) . You find Paul asking the Lord to avenge himself against Alexander the coppersmith (2 Timothy 4:14); John Gill's comment on this is "which may be considered either as an imprecation upon him, as knowing him to be a wicked blasphemer,"... In Revelations you have the saints praying for justice and vengeance as well (Revelation 6:10) .

In contrast, God also tells us to pray for our enemies. Matthew 5:44 states,
44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (NASB). The AMP, NIV, Holman CSB, ESV, all say basically the same thing. The KJV, NKJV, Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV), Young's Literal translation (YLT) add too this a bit, "bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,"(NKJV)...

So are we to pray for God justice and our vengeance be done to our enemies? or not?

My humble answer to this is, yes, but first pray for their salvation first and by salvation they receive the ultimate blessing from above. Pray that we do good and love our enemies so that they may see the light. Then pray if they never repent and that their disposition towards God is continually evil that God have His way with them, even if that means God's punishment and wrath fall upon them.

What do you say?

Some other Verses to consider:

Nehemiah 4:4
4 Hear, O our God, for we are despised; turn their reproach on their own heads, and give them as plunder to a land of captivity!

Nehemiah 13:29; Psalms 17:13, 74:11,22-23, 104:35, 109, 119:84,126, 140:7-12, 141:5-10; Lamentations 3:64-66.

Now another Point to ponder, and one that is controversial:
Matthew 21:21,22:
21 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done. 22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”


I believe this verse is widely misinterpreted. Some believe this means if you have enough faith, that God will always say Yes for whatever you ask for. God does not always give you what you ask for. Some believe this mountain is obstacles and if we pray to God to removed them He will do it if we have enough faith...Again, I disagree, God helps us through our trials and obstacles, He doesn't take them away (unless it's an obstacle that causes unbelief in Him).



I believe Jesus is asking the disciples here to pray THIS mountain, the one He is standing on, which represents ancient Israel, the apostate nation and Old Covenant system of Jewish ceremonial laws and customs, to be done away with. I believe Jesus is asking or tell them to pray this imprecatory prayer that God's will be done regarding the destruction of Jerusalem and all it represents, for we know it was God's will because it happened, 70AD...I believe that is what the beheaded saints in Revelation 6:10 (these verses are related) are also praying for (although it is also a continued prayer through out time leading up to the 2nd advent, it has an immediate fulfillment in 70AD and an Ultimate fulfillment at the end of the world). This interpretation seems to fit the context as well.

 

[zone]

hi Bookends.
i voted pray for their salvation only.
maybe it's because sometimes i feel like John, here (when i shouldn't):

Luke 9
A Samaritan Village Rejects Jesus
51When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. 52And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. 53But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. 54And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, “Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” 55 But he turned and rebuked them. 56And they went on to another village.


the Son of Thunder John eventually became the Apostle of Love.


this part is so right:

Now another Point to ponder, and one that is controversial:
Matthew 21:21,22:
21 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done. 22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”[/COLOR]


I believe this verse is widely misinterpreted. Some believe this means if you have enough faith, that God will always say Yes for whatever you ask for. God does not always give you what you ask for. Some believe this mountain is obstacles and if we pray to God to removed them He will do it if we have enough faith...Again, I disagree, God helps us through our trials and obstacles, He doesn't take them away (unless it's an obstacle that causes unbelief in Him).



I believe Jesus is asking the disciples here to pray THIS mountain, the one He is standing on, which represents ancient Israel, the apostate nation and Old Covenant system of Jewish ceremonial laws and customs, to be done away with. I believe Jesus is asking or tell them to pray this imprecatory prayer that God's will be done regarding the destruction of Jerusalem and all it represents, for we know it was God's will because it happened, 70AD...I believe that is what the beheaded saints in Revelation 6:10 (these verses are related) are also praying for (although it is also a continued prayer through out time leading up to the 2nd advent, it has an immediate fulfillment in 70AD and an Ultimate fulfillment at the end of the world). This interpretation seems to fit the context as well.

 

[Bookends]

hi Bookends.
i voted pray for their salvation only.
maybe it's because sometimes i feel like John, here (when i shouldn't):

Luke 9
A Samaritan Village Rejects Jesus
51When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. 52And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. 53But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. 54And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, “Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?” 55 But he turned and rebuked them. 56And they went on to another village.

Very good, thank you for this...But perhaps Jesus rebuked them because God had other plans then to utterly destroy them... Perhaps, Jesus knew of a few people that would turn from their ways and believe.

I'm only stating here that maybe we should pray that God justice be done to those whom God knows who won't accept Him. When we pray for the 2nd advent, aren't we also praying for His wrath, for His wrath and redemption are both complete and final at this time. We do pray for His coming again, don't we?

 

[zone]

Very good, thank you for this...But perhaps Jesus rebuked them because God had other plans then to utterly destroy them... Perhaps, Jesus knew of a few people that would turn from their ways and believe.

I'm only stating here that maybe we should pray that God justice be done to those whom God knows who won't accept Him. When we pray for the 2nd advent, aren't we also praying for His wrath, for His wrath and redemption are both complete and final at this time. We do pray for His coming again, don't we?

absolutely. i just meant me personally.
if i don't go to pray for their salvation only, i can go the other way rather quickly (and do).
maybe it's cuz of what's actually going down.
frustrating.
it appears to be unimpeded, and even aided by some christians.

course, as you noted - The Lord knows and is in charge.
that's all i meant (that's the part i have to remember)

this keeps coming to mind for me:

Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[danschance]

I did not like the choices I had on your poll, but I am glad to see this topic. Impecatory prayers are about asking God for justice and we see numerous examples of this in the psalms. So if King David prayed them and they are included as scripture, we certainly can pray them on our enemies. Of course repentance is preferred so I chose the second option of your poll. Thankx for posting on this valuable topic.

 

[Bookends]

I did not like the choices I had on your poll, but I am glad to see this topic. Impecatory prayers are about asking God for justice and we see numerous examples of this in the psalms. So if King David prayed them and they are included as scripture, we certainly can pray them on our enemies. Of course repentance is preferred so I chose the second option of your poll. Thankx for posting on this valuable topic.

You're Welcome, what options would you have given?

 

[Bookends]

absolutely. i just meant me personally.
if i don't go to pray for their salvation only, i can go the other way rather quickly (and do).
maybe it's cuz of what's actually going down.
frustrating.
it appears to be unimpeded, and even aided by some christians.

course, as you noted - The Lord knows and is in charge.
that's all i meant (that's the part i have to remember)

yes, I should have stated in the OP that whatever we pray for we should add "Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven".

 

[starfield]

I will pray for their salvation and say "Lord, let your will be done". I think one should be careful with imprecatory prayer that it is not done out of ulterior motive and spite. As for my attitude towards them, I will not retaliate because the scripture says that vengeance is the Lord's and so I will exercise patience knowing that God is in control. I will leave it to His hands relying on Him for He will vindicate His children at His time, which could be by softening the heart of the enemy and bringing them to repentance or punishing them.

In the New Testament Jesus gave us a good approach towards dealing with enemies in Matt 5:43-45
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Rom 12:14-21
14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[danschance]

You're Welcome, what options would you have given?

I have not given it much thought, but I did have a quandary about the choices given. I think we should always pray that the unsaved find salvation. Also, I completely agree with praying imprecatory prayers under certain circumstances.

If we as Christians do not employ the concepts of the Imprecatory Psalms, then we are toothless puppies fighting wolves. Many Christians see themselves as gentile dove, turning the other cheek and son. Yes there is a place for that. Yet the bible says Be as gentile as doves but as cunning as serpents.

Imprecatory prayers are not for petty retaliation. The are to protect the innocent, bring justice, punish the wicked so that they might turn to God or even be sent to Hell. When we pray them, God alone is making the final decision. So imprecatroy prayers are just one type of prayer that prayer warriors can employ out many different types of prayer. If they were good enough for King David and Good enough to become part of scripture, they are good enough for me.

I am glad you are posting on this topic

 

[unclefester]

I hesitate to say why I voted for option four ("pray for something else") because I don't want to paint myself as a do-gooder or the PC type. But the truth is, I have a very difficult time staying angry with anybody. Probably much to my own detriment at times, if that makes any sense ? I'm speaking in very general terms and as I type this, I'm considering that what I'm actually describing here is forgiveness towards another that may have wronged me. When directed in the OP's truest sense, I can't but help answer this query in the manner that it was presented and towards whom. I must answer this question first ... Who are my enemies ? And as much as many today see a religion such as Islam as "the" great enemy and threat to Christianity, I lean more towards the rabbi/teachers of Judaism that encompass todays modern day pharisees. Those who seek salvation thru their own "righteousness" by "observing and obeying" the law. These were whom Christ was most disenchanted with during his sojourn on earth and if they were and are Christ's enemies, they are my enemies as well. False religions with false gods are practiced out of ignorance of God's truth. But the Rabbinic Judaizers have knowledge of the true God. They just don't like His terms. Towards them, I would have to vote and pray for option # two ... "Pray for their salvation, but if they are to never receive it, then pray God's justice to befall them."

 

[CDavid]

In scripture in various places in scripture you have the righteous people praying for God's judgment to fall upon their enemies. You find a lot of this going in the Psalms of David while Saul and others chased him around seeking to kill him (Psalms 54:5, Psalms 55:8-9, *Psalms 59:1-5*) . You find Paul asking the Lord to avenge himself against Alexander the coppersmith (2 Timothy 4:14); John Gill's comment on this is "which may be considered either as an imprecation upon him, as knowing him to be a wicked blasphemer,"... In Revelations you have the saints praying for justice and vengeance as well (Revelation 6:10) .

In contrast, God also tells us to pray for our enemies. Matthew 5:44 states,
44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (NASB). The AMP, NIV, Holman CSB, ESV, all say basically the same thing. The KJV, NKJV, Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV), Young's Literal translation (YLT) add too this a bit, "bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you,"(NKJV)...

So are we to pray for God justice and our vengeance be done to our enemies? or not?

My humble answer to this is, yes, but first pray for their salvation first and by salvation they receive the ultimate blessing from above. Pray that we do good and love our enemies so that they may see the light. Then pray if they never repent and that their disposition towards God is continually evil that God have His way with them, even if that means God's punishment and wrath fall upon them.

What do you say?

Some other Verses to consider:

Nehemiah 4:4
4 Hear, O our God, for we are despised; turn their reproach on their own heads, and give them as plunder to a land of captivity!

Nehemiah 13:29; Psalms 17:13, 74:11,22-23, 104:35, 109, 119:84,126, 140:7-12, 141:5-10; Lamentations 3:64-66.

Now another Point to ponder, and one that is controversial:
Matthew 21:21,22:
21 So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done. 22 And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.”


I believe this verse is widely misinterpreted. Some believe this means if you have enough faith, that God will always say Yes for whatever you ask for. God does not always give you what you ask for. Some believe this mountain is obstacles and if we pray to God to removed them He will do it if we have enough faith...Again, I disagree, God helps us through our trials and obstacles, He doesn't take them away (unless it's an obstacle that causes unbelief in Him).



I believe Jesus is asking the disciples here to pray THIS mountain, the one He is standing on, which represents ancient Israel, the apostate nation and Old Covenant system of Jewish ceremonial laws and customs, to be done away with. I believe Jesus is asking or tell them to pray this imprecatory prayer that God's will be done regarding the destruction of Jerusalem and all it represents, for we know it was God's will because it happened, 70AD...I believe that is what the beheaded saints in Revelation 6:10 (these verses are related) are also praying for (although it is also a continued prayer through out time leading up to the 2nd advent, it has an immediate fulfillment in 70AD and an Ultimate fulfillment at the end of the world). This interpretation seems to fit the context as well.

I think we should pray for God to have His own way.

 

[sinless]

We should pray that God makes the wrong things right, that He would execute justice in the way that He sees fit, not in any way we may think is right

 

[AgapeSpiritEyes]

Please Lord Jesus fill me and allow me to pray what your will is, please do not allow me to define design or aline my prayers from my own understanding, I ask To love your will even if it is YOUR judgement i ask for mercy also and compassion i am your servant allow me to be your vessel and take my mouth and heart to pray you Infinite all powerful will.