Simple Question...No Simple Answer
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Sorry, "no" does not have to mean "he has not stopped", your question is a rhetorical tool, your attempting to limit direct replies to fit your agenda.
There are more than one reason to answer "No" to your question "are you still beating your friend" as I have shown...
"No, he never once beat his friend"
"No" because he never started beating his friend to begin with.
There is only the answer "yes" or "no" to SeaBass's question "can you have Faith without any works and still be saved".
There are more than one reason to answer "No" to your question "are you still beating your friend" as I have shown...
"No, he never once beat his friend"
"No" because he never started beating his friend to begin with.
There is only the answer "yes" or "no" to SeaBass's question "can you have Faith without any works and still be saved".
So. . .is your answer above to my question the truth about you, or is it a lie?
Did the terms of my question allow you to give the truth of the matter with only a simple "yes or no" answer?
In order to answer the question with a simple yes or no, you apparently had to lie, because the truth of the matter could not be stated with a simple yes or no.
Likewise, your "simple question" which is to be answered with a "yes or no," does not allow
for the truth of the matter.
And yet, you somehow think it reveals the truth of the matter.
Previously addressed. . .ad nauseum.
Contradiction of terms. . .non-sensical, absurd question.
Did the terms of my question allow you to give the truth of the matter with only a simple "yes or no" answer?
In order to answer the question with a simple yes or no, you apparently had to lie, because the truth of the matter could not be stated with a simple yes or no.
Likewise, your "simple question" which is to be answered with a "yes or no," does not allow
for the truth of the matter.
And yet, you somehow think it reveals the truth of the matter.
Previously addressed. . .ad nauseum.
Contradiction of terms. . .non-sensical, absurd question.
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And again, you have precisely made my point.
SeaBass' question is simply "a rhetorical tool attempting to limit direct replies to fit his agenda."
Those are not simple "yes or no" answers,
nor, in terms of the question, can they mean what you propose.
If that were his question, but that is not SeaBass' specific question.
SeaBass' question is simply "a rhetorical tool attempting to limit direct replies to fit his agenda."
Those are not simple "yes or no" answers,
nor, in terms of the question, can they mean what you propose.
If that were his question, but that is not SeaBass' specific question.
E
how many times do you people have to be told. There is no such thing as true faith, which will never be followed by works.
So your asking an impossible question. it is not possible to have faith, which is not followed by works. So there will never be a person who has faith apart from works. Unless he had faith, then got killed before he was ABLE to have works. (ie thief on the cross) But he would still be saved.
So your asking an impossible question. it is not possible to have faith, which is not followed by works. So there will never be a person who has faith apart from works. Unless he had faith, then got killed before he was ABLE to have works. (ie thief on the cross) But he would still be saved.
Yes, there is, let me give you an example:
Luke 17:12-14 (NKJV)
12 Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. 13 And they lifted up their voices and said, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!" 14 So when He saw them, He said to them, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.
Now notice verse 14, our Lord tells these lepers to "Go, show yourselves to the priest.", he did this because a leper, according to the law, when cured, was to show himself to the priest, who would admit him into the congregation, giving him a testimony or certificate of his cure.
Now we know these lepers had faith in our Lord as they had not yet been cured and have now headed for the priest, it is then, after they obeyed our Lord that they were cured, again verse 14 continued "And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed."
So faith only did not cure these lepers. Now continuing:
Luke 17:15-19 (NKJV)
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 and fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. 17 So Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? 18 Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?" 19 And He said to him, "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."
Notice the one, after "he saw that he was healed," returned to glorify God (sure is a lot of faith and works going on here, nobody saved yet).
It was not until after Jesus said: "Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine?" It is then our Lord tells this one that did the righteous works of returning and "glorified God", "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."
The King James more properly renders it "Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole." as what is translated "whole" from the Greek σεσωκεν (sozo) means "saved"
So faith without works (the nine had faith without righteous works) not saved, faith with works (the one with righteous works) saved.
Luke 17:12-14 (NKJV)
12 Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. 13 And they lifted up their voices and said, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!" 14 So when He saw them, He said to them, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.
Now notice verse 14, our Lord tells these lepers to "Go, show yourselves to the priest.", he did this because a leper, according to the law, when cured, was to show himself to the priest, who would admit him into the congregation, giving him a testimony or certificate of his cure.
Now we know these lepers had faith in our Lord as they had not yet been cured and have now headed for the priest, it is then, after they obeyed our Lord that they were cured, again verse 14 continued "And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed."
So faith only did not cure these lepers. Now continuing:
Luke 17:15-19 (NKJV)
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 and fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. 17 So Jesus answered and said, "Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? 18 Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?" 19 And He said to him, "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."
Notice the one, after "he saw that he was healed," returned to glorify God (sure is a lot of faith and works going on here, nobody saved yet).
It was not until after Jesus said: "Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine?" It is then our Lord tells this one that did the righteous works of returning and "glorified God", "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."
The King James more properly renders it "Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole." as what is translated "whole" from the Greek σεσωκεν (sozo) means "saved"
So faith without works (the nine had faith without righteous works) not saved, faith with works (the one with righteous works) saved.
I believe when they asking Jesus to heal them, mean they have a faith in Jesus. Faith mean entrust, and they demonstrate his faith by follow Jesus order.
If they don't do Jesus order mean they don't have a faith.
For example.
Say I make announcement, I will give a million dollar to whoever come to my house,
I believe nobody come, because they know I don't have a million.
Mean they don't have a faith in me.
If Bill gate make the same announcement, I will come. Because I have a faith/ believe he have billions.
Mean have a faith first than do a work.
Work is after faith, not before. If one don't have a faith than why work.
Real faith cause work if it possible, but if one have a faith than die in the same second, he still save, because faith is the requirement not work.
If they don't do Jesus order mean they don't have a faith.
For example.
Say I make announcement, I will give a million dollar to whoever come to my house,
I believe nobody come, because they know I don't have a million.
Mean they don't have a faith in me.
If Bill gate make the same announcement, I will come. Because I have a faith/ believe he have billions.
Mean have a faith first than do a work.
Work is after faith, not before. If one don't have a faith than why work.
Real faith cause work if it possible, but if one have a faith than die in the same second, he still save, because faith is the requirement not work.
Saving faith = belief + obedience.
Without both, it is not true faith, but counterfeit faith.
Regarding salvation--only belief saves you.
Regarding sanctification--the Holy Spirit sanctifies through the obedience of faith.
There is no salvation without sanctification.
If one is not being sanctified, one has no assurance of salvation.
But it is faith only that saves,
the works which necessarily follow from true faith do not save, for one is already saved by the faith which produces those works.
Without both, it is not true faith, but counterfeit faith.
Regarding salvation--only belief saves you.
Regarding sanctification--the Holy Spirit sanctifies through the obedience of faith.
There is no salvation without sanctification.
If one is not being sanctified, one has no assurance of salvation.
But it is faith only that saves,
the works which necessarily follow from true faith do not save, for one is already saved by the faith which produces those works.
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These 10 lepers had "faith" Jesus would cleanse them, notice in the following verse they were not yet cleansed, but all did the works of going to show the priests they were cleansed (and yet as they left they had not yet been cleansed showing some degree of faith), it was not until (it came to pass) "as they went" they were cleansed :
Luke 17:14 (KJV)
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
These lepers (all 10) were cleansed, but 1 out of the 10 ran back to Jesus, praising God giving God thanks :
Luke 17:15-18 (KJV)
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
this "righteous works" of this 1 man out of the 10 men was saved, notice the following verse the word "whole" which is translated from the Greek word "σεσωκεν" (sozo) which means "saved" :
Luke 17:19 (KJV)
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
9 men, show of faith (they had to believe Jesus would heal them or they would not have headed for the priests, they were not yet healed until being on their way to see the priests Luke 17:14) and even though healed were not saved) no righteous works, not saved even with faith.
1 man out of 10 that showed faith in the Lord same as the other 9 and was healed, showed righteous works by returning to Jesus and giving "glory to God" (Luke 17:17-18) :
Luke 17:17-18 (KJV)
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
BECAUSE OF this one mans RIGHTEOUS WORKS (returning to Jesus praising God, a work the others that were healed did not do) was made "whole" (Greek word "σεσωκεν" (sozo) meaning "saved").
Luke 17:19 (KJV)
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
So "faith alone" did not save this 1 man, "faith with empty works" did not save this man (the other 9 were healed but not saved by empty faith as well this man), but AFTER "faith" AND THEN AFTER "righteous works" of RETURNING TO GLORIFY GOD, was this man "σεσωκεν" made whole (different from the other 9) "saved".
Faith alone will never save anyone just like it did not save the 9.
Luke 17:14 (KJV)
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
These lepers (all 10) were cleansed, but 1 out of the 10 ran back to Jesus, praising God giving God thanks :
Luke 17:15-18 (KJV)
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
this "righteous works" of this 1 man out of the 10 men was saved, notice the following verse the word "whole" which is translated from the Greek word "σεσωκεν" (sozo) which means "saved" :
Luke 17:19 (KJV)
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
9 men, show of faith (they had to believe Jesus would heal them or they would not have headed for the priests, they were not yet healed until being on their way to see the priests Luke 17:14) and even though healed were not saved) no righteous works, not saved even with faith.
1 man out of 10 that showed faith in the Lord same as the other 9 and was healed, showed righteous works by returning to Jesus and giving "glory to God" (Luke 17:17-18) :
Luke 17:17-18 (KJV)
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
BECAUSE OF this one mans RIGHTEOUS WORKS (returning to Jesus praising God, a work the others that were healed did not do) was made "whole" (Greek word "σεσωκεν" (sozo) meaning "saved").
Luke 17:19 (KJV)
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
So "faith alone" did not save this 1 man, "faith with empty works" did not save this man (the other 9 were healed but not saved by empty faith as well this man), but AFTER "faith" AND THEN AFTER "righteous works" of RETURNING TO GLORIFY GOD, was this man "σεσωκεν" made whole (different from the other 9) "saved".
Faith alone will never save anyone just like it did not save the 9.
E
no they did not have faith.
how do we know?
They did not do what God told them to do according to the law (they had no faith in God)
they did not give credit to where credit was due.
they believed, and jesus healed their physical ailment anyway, but they did not have faith, or they would have proved it with their actions.
Faith that "remains alone" (barren of works) will never save anyone because that is not genuine faith (says/claims he has faith but has no works) but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith (James 2:14-20). Where is the fruit that confirms the root?
Faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation saves because Christ is the object of our faith and the all sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:8,9). Works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of faith that is not dead, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation.
Faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation saves because Christ is the object of our faith and the all sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:8,9). Works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of faith that is not dead, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation. Faith is the root and works are the fruit of salvation.
They had faith apart from righteous works (all 10) or they would not have left to show the priests something they did not yet have, they were not cleansed until AFTER they were ON THEIR WAY to the priests to show the cleansing THEY DID NOT HAVE YET, that is called FAITH ONLY.
The one man of the 10 had FAITH ALONG WITH RIGHTEOUS WORKS returning to give thanks to God, and why he was saved or as the KJV says, made whole.
It does not matter what age, Patriarch (e.g. Abram offering up Issac a.k.a righteous works) the Mosaic (this one of ten lepers righteous works) or the Christian (obeying all Christ commands), nothing has change there.
The one man of the 10 had FAITH ALONG WITH RIGHTEOUS WORKS returning to give thanks to God, and why he was saved or as the KJV says, made whole.
It does not matter what age, Patriarch (e.g. Abram offering up Issac a.k.a righteous works) the Mosaic (this one of ten lepers righteous works) or the Christian (obeying all Christ commands), nothing has change there.