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U
Soaking originated from the Toronto Blessing 'revival'. This spawned 'revivals' all over the world mimicing the same 'holy spirit manifestations'. Places like Lakewood, Brownsville, and the Vineyard churches all over. In other words, the Toronto Blessing that brought us 'soaking prayer' also spawned things like this...
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2T0E[/video]
Personally, i'm not going to take on a teaching that stems from this movement.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeVZ6e2T0E[/video]
Personally, i'm not going to take on a teaching that stems from this movement.
P
Oh, the new-fangled things these kids come up with---I can't keep up! lol
Surely it's one thing to actively think about (meditate on) the Lord, the Word, or song lyrics that (actually) lift up the Savior, and another to try to think of nothing? Right? I mean, that is right...right?
Seriously, maybe I have ADD, but have you ever tried to think of nothing? I can't do it...I wind up thinking about how I'm still thinking about stuff.
(my husband maintains this is due to the fact I'm a woman, and that many times when I ask him what he's thinking about the true answer is nothing.
But I think he means nothing of import.)
So--spend time focusing on and listening to the Lord--hooray! Highly recommended! (though for my part, His voice speaks loudest and most frequently in the Bible)
Spend time "emptying one's mind of all thought"--not so much.
-ellie
Surely it's one thing to actively think about (meditate on) the Lord, the Word, or song lyrics that (actually) lift up the Savior, and another to try to think of nothing? Right? I mean, that is right...right?
Seriously, maybe I have ADD, but have you ever tried to think of nothing? I can't do it...I wind up thinking about how I'm still thinking about stuff.
(my husband maintains this is due to the fact I'm a woman, and that many times when I ask him what he's thinking about the true answer is nothing.
But I think he means nothing of import.)So--spend time focusing on and listening to the Lord--hooray! Highly recommended! (though for my part, His voice speaks loudest and most frequently in the Bible)
Spend time "emptying one's mind of all thought"--not so much.
-ellie
praying is talking to the Father, just chatting a lot of the time, shouldn't be a asking for something every time we talk to the Father. How would we feel if that was the only time we heard from our friends and family. Meditating is listening to the Father. How can we listen to what the father has to say with other noise, or if we are talking to much, and not listening enough. Learned a long time ago to take the cotton out of my ears and stick it in my mouth. this has led me to do a lot more listening than talking. Just wanted to share that tuning in, is not tuning out.
I used to be in a church whereby the people believed in getting soaked spiritually with music and prayer and also being quiet and still before God where there was no music nor anyone speaking. But after a few minutes, lots of weird stuff start to happen where one or two will start screaming etc. This was not of God but something manifesting out of the individual.
Soaking in prayer, praise and worship is not the occult if one's focus is on God. One can't empty one's mind but one can fill one's mind with thoughts of God's word which is God.
My definition of soaking is to have complete focus on God meaning not to allow anything to distract me from what I am doing whether it be in prayer, praise or worship.
Soaking in prayer, praise and worship is not the occult if one's focus is on God. One can't empty one's mind but one can fill one's mind with thoughts of God's word which is God.
My definition of soaking is to have complete focus on God meaning not to allow anything to distract me from what I am doing whether it be in prayer, praise or worship.
Why are you torn? Are we going to worship the Lord with sound mind? Any worship that focuses on the "oneself" is not true worship. This all part to the sensationalism movement. These people put on good show!
1 Timothy 6:20-21
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
Approved and Disapproved Workers
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
Lamentations 3:26
26 It is good that one should hope and wait quietly
For the salvation of the Lord.
Psalms 37:7
7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him;
Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
Psalms 46:10
10 Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth!
Matthew 6:1-4
“Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
The Model Prayer
5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Remember the slave girl that had a spirit of divination in Acts 16:18 and why Paul cast out the demon within her.
Matthew 23
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Now go to youtube and search for soaking, soaking prayer or soaking in the holy spirit. Watch them and ask yourself if they violate the Word of God?
Frauds, Fictions, Fantasies, and Fabrications | CRI
Sorry this was so long... I'm pretty sure I'll get attacked for my response here. But I don't care, these people are looking for what they can get out of God, they are interested in what's on the masters table, not simply the master himself.
1 Timothy 6:20-21
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 1:7
7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
Approved and Disapproved Workers
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
Lamentations 3:26
26 It is good that one should hope and wait quietly
For the salvation of the Lord.
Psalms 37:7
7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him;
Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
Psalms 46:10
10 Be still, and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth!
Matthew 6:1-4
“Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
The Model Prayer
5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Remember the slave girl that had a spirit of divination in Acts 16:18 and why Paul cast out the demon within her.
Matthew 23
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Now go to youtube and search for soaking, soaking prayer or soaking in the holy spirit. Watch them and ask yourself if they violate the Word of God?
Frauds, Fictions, Fantasies, and Fabrications | CRI
Sorry this was so long... I'm pretty sure I'll get attacked for my response here. But I don't care, these people are looking for what they can get out of God, they are interested in what's on the masters table, not simply the master himself.
A
That video you posted is NOT genuine Christian soaking!
You are greatly misrepresenting what Christian worship is.
What you have done is analgous to posting a video of a convicted con artist using Christianity to scam people out of their money and then asserting that's what the Bible calls tithing.
You're maligning.
Here is a genuine example of Christians engaging in Christian soaking (e.g. Christian worship and meditation):
[youtube]EwXgW9rHtX8[/youtube]
As you can see, it doesn't even resemble the mischaracterization you made.
You are greatly misrepresenting what Christian worship is.
What you have done is analgous to posting a video of a convicted con artist using Christianity to scam people out of their money and then asserting that's what the Bible calls tithing.
You're maligning.
Here is a genuine example of Christians engaging in Christian soaking (e.g. Christian worship and meditation):
[youtube]EwXgW9rHtX8[/youtube]
As you can see, it doesn't even resemble the mischaracterization you made.
A
I've been to many Christian worship and soaking and NEVER experienced ANY of the things you people are talking about. I think you have been to places where Christian worship (including soaking) were abused.
So while I acknowledge that you actually experienced what you experienced: I never have.
All I experienced was a group of Christians enjoying quiet worship music and sitting quietly before the Lord.
Seems like you need to find places where Christian worship (including Christian soaking) isn't abused instead of attacking the genuine article.
So while I acknowledge that you actually experienced what you experienced: I never have.
All I experienced was a group of Christians enjoying quiet worship music and sitting quietly before the Lord.
Seems like you need to find places where Christian worship (including Christian soaking) isn't abused instead of attacking the genuine article.
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A
"Soaking in His presence" by John Arnott, "the senior pastor of Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship. He and his wife Carol are the hosts of the daily 'Catch The Fire' television program."
"But What Is 'Soaking'? ...Although 'soaking' includes waiting on the Lord, in this present move of the Spirit it means much more than that. To 'soak' in God’s presence is to rest in His love rather than to 'strive'(to bad Jesus didnt know about this) in prayer. As the person receiving a touch from God begins to connect with the reality of the Holy Spirit’s presence, he often responds by falling or simply lying on the floor. As he rests expectantly in God’s presence, often the Holy Spirit hovers over the person to reveal more of God’s love and to renew and repair areas of a person’s life. As the believer soaks in God’s presence, the Lord takes control and begins to draw his attention to God’s word either in the scriptures or through internal audible impressions or pictures he sees in his minds eye...
"'Why Do I Need To Soak?' ...While we base our theology on God’s Word, our experiences with God make it all come alive..... They may stand there or often rest in the Spirit as they fall in God’s presence. Because of the many people who experience this phenomenon in our meetings, we assign every prayer team member a 'catcher' to assist the person receiving prayer by standing behind them as the prayer team member prays for him. This allows the person receiving prayer to relax and be less anxious about what might happen if he falls....
"So How Do I Soak? Although you don’t have to lie down, you may sit in a chair or lie on your bed, the main thing is to be in a safe place so you can be vulnerable. ... As you reflect on the cross and all that Jesus has lovingly purchased for you, begin confessing your sins to Him and longing to be close to Him.... People experience Him in many ways: a weight upon your body, an electric tingling upon your hands or face, or a warm sensation of love going through your heart which connects you to Him. ...This is how you grow to love anyone, by a series of several encounters that bond you together....
"Can I Trust That It Is The Holy Spirit Working? Yes you can. Remember, everything we receive from God we receive by faith. Faith must be positive and focused on God...."
"Let's get back to supernatural church" by John Arnott
"...we hear the term, 'church without walls' but what does this mean? While it can mean sending teams from a local church outside the church’s walls to minister in homes and in the marketplace, I believe it is much more than that. If we are going to reach this world for Jesus, we need a completely new model of doing church...
"I believe the vision God gave us here in Toronto for Soaking Prayer Centers all over the world is a great response to the Great Commission. In just over one year, we have had over 4,000 people order our "soaking kit" and begin a small group of 'called out ones' in their homes....
"Why the interest? Because it is a quick, simple way to get involved into he supernatural ministry of Jesus and start helping people receive healing, deliverance and freedom, to come into the joy of the Lord and be filled with the Spirit. The Soaking Kit includes all the basic information you need to start your own 'soaking center' in your home or business."
"But What Is 'Soaking'? ...Although 'soaking' includes waiting on the Lord, in this present move of the Spirit it means much more than that. To 'soak' in God’s presence is to rest in His love rather than to 'strive'(to bad Jesus didnt know about this) in prayer. As the person receiving a touch from God begins to connect with the reality of the Holy Spirit’s presence, he often responds by falling or simply lying on the floor. As he rests expectantly in God’s presence, often the Holy Spirit hovers over the person to reveal more of God’s love and to renew and repair areas of a person’s life. As the believer soaks in God’s presence, the Lord takes control and begins to draw his attention to God’s word either in the scriptures or through internal audible impressions or pictures he sees in his minds eye...
"'Why Do I Need To Soak?' ...While we base our theology on God’s Word, our experiences with God make it all come alive..... They may stand there or often rest in the Spirit as they fall in God’s presence. Because of the many people who experience this phenomenon in our meetings, we assign every prayer team member a 'catcher' to assist the person receiving prayer by standing behind them as the prayer team member prays for him. This allows the person receiving prayer to relax and be less anxious about what might happen if he falls....
"So How Do I Soak? Although you don’t have to lie down, you may sit in a chair or lie on your bed, the main thing is to be in a safe place so you can be vulnerable. ... As you reflect on the cross and all that Jesus has lovingly purchased for you, begin confessing your sins to Him and longing to be close to Him.... People experience Him in many ways: a weight upon your body, an electric tingling upon your hands or face, or a warm sensation of love going through your heart which connects you to Him. ...This is how you grow to love anyone, by a series of several encounters that bond you together....
"Can I Trust That It Is The Holy Spirit Working? Yes you can. Remember, everything we receive from God we receive by faith. Faith must be positive and focused on God...."
"Let's get back to supernatural church" by John Arnott
"...we hear the term, 'church without walls' but what does this mean? While it can mean sending teams from a local church outside the church’s walls to minister in homes and in the marketplace, I believe it is much more than that. If we are going to reach this world for Jesus, we need a completely new model of doing church...
"I believe the vision God gave us here in Toronto for Soaking Prayer Centers all over the world is a great response to the Great Commission. In just over one year, we have had over 4,000 people order our "soaking kit" and begin a small group of 'called out ones' in their homes....
"Why the interest? Because it is a quick, simple way to get involved into he supernatural ministry of Jesus and start helping people receive healing, deliverance and freedom, to come into the joy of the Lord and be filled with the Spirit. The Soaking Kit includes all the basic information you need to start your own 'soaking center' in your home or business."
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A
Funny, I spose Jesus should have said about the false prophets:
Hey all our prophets are good...you must be in weird places...better find better places
and not attack our good prophets.
Are you kidden....you have had nice church prayer so you say your attacked? Why are you attacked?
Thats like telling someone who got mugged to be quiet because its safe in your neighborhood.
Hey all our prophets are good...you must be in weird places...better find better places
and not attack our good prophets.
Are you kidden....you have had nice church prayer so you say your attacked? Why are you attacked?
Thats like telling someone who got mugged to be quiet because its safe in your neighborhood.
A
You found one organization's intepretation and extrapolated that onto the entire body of Christ. You are falsely asserting that because some folks in Toronto engaged the way they did that therefore everyone else in the world is doing likewise and that's simply not true.
An encyclopedia definition:
"Soaking Music otherwise known as Soaking Prayer music or Soaking Worship music, is a sub-genre of Christian Music, and is commonly used to denote songs that are used during contemplative prayer in prayer houses and other 'soaking' Christian meetings. The description broadly encompasses any Christian music that is conducive to these types of gatherings.
The purpose of Soaking Music is 'setting aside of oneself to focus and meditate on God for renewal of strength and peace.' Practitioners view it as 'an aid in seeking God" or 'Turning hearts back to the Father through intimate praise and worship.'. Others have defined it as "a musical environment to enable people to connect deeply with God's presence.'"
Soaking Music - instrumental soaking worship
SOAKING MUSIC ? SOAKING PRAYER WORSHIP MUSIC - download free christian soaking music songs mp3s cds
Psalm 23:1 is the scripture and intent behind the Christian soaking music at the places I attend: "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul."
Your error is that you have found an organization that has a different interpretation and application than the encyclopedia definition and application and then chosen to extrapolate that onto everyone else in the world as if they follow the interpretation and application of the organization you are referencing when they certainly do not.
Seems like you need to find places where Christian worship (including Christian soaking) isn't abused instead of attacking the genuine article.
An encyclopedia definition:
"Soaking Music otherwise known as Soaking Prayer music or Soaking Worship music, is a sub-genre of Christian Music, and is commonly used to denote songs that are used during contemplative prayer in prayer houses and other 'soaking' Christian meetings. The description broadly encompasses any Christian music that is conducive to these types of gatherings.
The purpose of Soaking Music is 'setting aside of oneself to focus and meditate on God for renewal of strength and peace.' Practitioners view it as 'an aid in seeking God" or 'Turning hearts back to the Father through intimate praise and worship.'. Others have defined it as "a musical environment to enable people to connect deeply with God's presence.'"
Soaking Music - instrumental soaking worship
SOAKING MUSIC ? SOAKING PRAYER WORSHIP MUSIC - download free christian soaking music songs mp3s cds
Psalm 23:1 is the scripture and intent behind the Christian soaking music at the places I attend: "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters. He restores my soul."
Your error is that you have found an organization that has a different interpretation and application than the encyclopedia definition and application and then chosen to extrapolate that onto everyone else in the world as if they follow the interpretation and application of the organization you are referencing when they certainly do not.
Seems like you need to find places where Christian worship (including Christian soaking) isn't abused instead of attacking the genuine article.
1
This is why I'm undecided/torn on my view of this.
I have a hard time telling if someone is taking an invalid practice in one location, and applying it as the rule of conduct for practice in all locations.
Maybe there is a biblical version of soaking prayer and an unblblical one?
So maybe the issue is to define what is Biblical and what isn't Biblical? That way we don't apply the rule of ONE to ALL?
I have a hard time telling if someone is taking an invalid practice in one location, and applying it as the rule of conduct for practice in all locations.
Maybe there is a biblical version of soaking prayer and an unblblical one?
So maybe the issue is to define what is Biblical and what isn't Biblical? That way we don't apply the rule of ONE to ALL?
A
I never even heard of the Toronto spectacle until a few years ago. It has nothing to do with my life. The places I've engaged in Christian soaking, including The River of OC, are not abusing Christian worship.
You don't have to condemn every Christian and every Christian assembly in the world that chooses to play quiet Christian worship music while seeking intimacy with God because there are SOME people in the world that like to turn everything into a spectacle.
Keep the baby, throw out the bathwater.
You don't have to condemn every Christian and every Christian assembly in the world that chooses to play quiet Christian worship music while seeking intimacy with God because there are SOME people in the world that like to turn everything into a spectacle.
Keep the baby, throw out the bathwater.
The video you presented Ageofknowledge, just seems like heart felt worship to me. If you and others want call it "soaking" then ok, but until you defined what it actually is and isn't the term in itself is open to criticism because now where in scripture does it tell us to "soak" although the concept may be there. The term in itself sounds "new age" to me.
I know you are not endorsing "soaking kits", but as for me, I don't feel I need go out and purchase a "soaking kit" in order to be immersed in God's Spirit and love. Maybe I'm old fashion, but generally I stick the rule "if it's new, it ain't true and if it's true, it ain't new".
A
The artist specializes in Christian soaking music. That's representative of the genre. View the You Tube video at it's source and note that the title is 'Kathi Wilson -- 'Mighty Rushing Breath of God' Christian Soaking Praise and Worship Music.'
"Kathi's music serves to move us in the spirit and draw us closer to God, to help us quiet our minds and enter again into His presence. It calms, relaxes and soothes. The music moves us emotionally and spiritually in ways that help us return to peace and well-being, soaking in the presence of the Lord."
I've already done so. I gave the encyclopedia definition in an earlier post.
I've never even heard of a 'soaking kit.'
"Kathi's music serves to move us in the spirit and draw us closer to God, to help us quiet our minds and enter again into His presence. It calms, relaxes and soothes. The music moves us emotionally and spiritually in ways that help us return to peace and well-being, soaking in the presence of the Lord."
I've already done so. I gave the encyclopedia definition in an earlier post.
I've never even heard of a 'soaking kit.'
A
Many Jews chose that as their philosophy when Jesus arrived. Tell me, what's the cutoff date when the work of God and his people become evil to you?
I heard some elderly people about twenty years ago at a Baptist Church calling Amy Grant's music "of the devil." They were staunch believers in the philosophy you are celebrating.
I heard some elderly people about twenty years ago at a Baptist Church calling Amy Grant's music "of the devil." They were staunch believers in the philosophy you are celebrating.