Some professing Christains say that God's law is a curse. What? Why?

Sirk · May 9, 2015

It's not a strawman or a nonsequiter because God is good and is just. He cannot and will not allow anyone to get away with sin. A person having a mental acknowledgment that Jesus is their Savior while they sin on occasion (with the thinking they are saved while they sin) is not going to be in favor with God because the Lord cannot condone someone who willfully rebels against Him. One must confess and strive to forsake sin with the Lord's help. For it is the Lord that works in the believer to do the "good work."

You are willfully disobeying God by arguing about doctrine....,ever thought of that?

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I already explained the difference between Paul's use of the term 'works' and James. James is the result of God working in and thru us which I see as fruit. Paul speaks of works as self effort salvation.
(I hope I don't have to repeat this 30 times).

Sirk · May 9, 2015

crossnote said:

You will and in the end will be a complete waste of your time.....possibly. However, God does choose to reveal and to conceal.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

That's a nonsensical statement. Righteousness is credited to our account through faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 4:5-8
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

just-me said:

Not to wear clothing with mixed material is a non moral regulation, is it not?

Sirk · May 9, 2015

Calling on Jesus is an action. It is followed by effort on the part of the one calling to move closer to Jesus and He will move closer to the one calling. Calling on Jesus denotes an affection for him and a pursuit....not an arrival. The point is the journey not the destination. Not in this life anyway. If a person has arrived with Jesus they've caught a Jesus not worth catching.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

just-me said:

Exodus 4:24-26
24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.
25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Sounded physical to me.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Try looking at the context. Paul speaks of the Law as in reference to the Law of Moses because:

(a) Galatians 3:17-18 says, "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."
(b) 6 times the variation of the word "circumcision" appears in Galatians chapter 2.

So this is not speaking of all law in general whatsoever. For Paul says, shall we continue in sin because we are not under the Law? Paul's answer to that question is...."God forbid." Meanining, you are not allowed to do so. And it is important to point out that sin is merely the transgression of the Law. So if we are not under the Law, yet you can sin...... think about it. In order to sin, yoiu have to be transgressing some kind of Law. This Law would be the Law of Christ under the New Covenant (Galatians 6:2).

Also, Hebrews 7:12 says there is a change in the Law. So it is not about you throwing up your arms in defeat thinking you cannot keep God's Commands. 1 John 2:3-6 says that if one does keep his commands, they do not know him. So keeping God's good ways are the basics of the faith.

Another man of straw. And if you don't think so, then you are saying you can secure your own righteousness through the law.
Jason, sometimes I don't think you are thinking about what you or the other is saying, you just argue for arguments sake.

mpaper345 · May 9, 2015

We do not go by the physical ordinances of Israel anymore,for Jesus took them out of the way nailing them to His cross,because they were contrary to us,which means they had no spiritual salvation impact on people,but it kept them right until Jesus came and was a school teacher(Colossians 2:14-17).

Paul said the law is spiritual,holy,just,and good(Romans 7:12-14),and Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish it(Romans 3:31).

We always have to obey the moral laws of God,which is to love God and love people,which the 10 commandments are laws of love.

The Bible says that love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Everybody has to live up to the law,the moral laws of God,but nobody could do it in the Old Testament,but in the New Testament we can do it by the Spirit,which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

We do not go by any physical ordinances of the Old Testament because they have no spiritual impact on us,but we always go by the moral laws of God,to love God and love people,and anything else that is good in conduct.

The Bible is not talking about not going by the moral laws of God,but pointing out that by the flesh we can not achieve that perfectly,but by the Spirit we can.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Through the new birth God's nature, which is in accordance with His moral law, is written on our hearts such that the born again Christian desires to do what's pleasing to God. It really isn't rocket science.

just-me · May 9, 2015

crossnote said:

Oh, I get it, you aren't saying that non moral is immoral, your just saying there is no moral to the regulation.

Deuteronomy 22:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

These verses discuss the concept of mixing materials and fibers, animals for labor, and seeds that are not compatible and grow well together, and are of completely different characteristics.

God established this law to ensure that low quality fabrics are not produced.

All clothing is made from two different kinds of naturally occurring fibers:
(1) Cellulose fiber, which is made from plants. This is typically linen and cotton;
(2) animal protein fiber. Fabrics such as wool and silk fall into this category.

When you mix fibers of varying characteristics, you create a fabric that is of low quality and will wear out quickly.

God simply does not want manufacturers to create low-quality products and take advantage of—and deceive—consumers. Such actions would break the spirit of the Eighth Commandment.

Weaving two different materials together that are not compatible can also be compared with the church with its members, or with a husband wife relationship in comparison with Christ and the church being of the same mind.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
1 Corinthians 1:10

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14
This verse might refer more to the ox and the ass rather than the linen and the wool.

Thank you. You just pointed out a law that will give us a blessing, for God desires us to have quality cloths that are durable. I see now the moral to the story. You are pretty clever. I have to hand it to ya on thins one. God bless.

Jason0047 · May 9, 2015

crossnote said:

On this part we agree. God does the work in the believer so one cannot claim they are doing the work (ultimately). But I don't think we are in complete agreement, though. Do you believe you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved? How about... can you be saved and yet abide in unrepentant sin like dying immediately right after you lied to God or in committing self murder (i.e. suicide)?

Jason0047 · May 9, 2015

crossnote said:

Jesus said if you love him, you will keep his commandments. The two greatest commandments is to love God and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Loving your neighbor fulfills the law of.... don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery, etc.

For John says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in Him. John says hating one's brother is the equivalanet of murder. So can you hate a brother and still be saved? Can you commit adultery and still be saved? Can you still and still be saved?

Jason0047 · May 9, 2015

As for Romans 4:5-8, this is in reference to how we get right with God if we do sin. We confess our sins and seek God's help to forsake sin. We are forgiven on what He has done and then God works thru us after that. It's not your work, my friend. God saves in both Justification AND Sanctification. You want it to be all Justification. But it doesn't work like that. You have to yield to God's Spirit and let Him work thru you.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

I've been out of fellowship often and am still saved.
A saved person will be disciplined by the Lord if living in unrepentant sin.
Whom the Lord loves (His children), He chastens.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Non sequiters.
Can you secure your salvation through the law? I take it your answer is yes, because every time I bring it up you come up with a non sequiter objection.

crossnote · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

All justification? When did I say that? Hallucinating? The same God who justifies also sanctifies.

Galatians 3:2-3, 10-12
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:2-3, 10-12
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:2-3, 10-12

oh yeah, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.

Delivery · May 9, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Jason, your posts are so hilarious I find it hard to believe anybody can say such things and still be serious. Can you be out of fellowship with God and still be saved? I take it that what you mean is can you get out of fellowship with God and lose your salvation after you are saved? No. The fact that you are saved proves that you are in fellowship with God. A saved person can never get out of fellowship with God because Jesus said, [h=2]I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.[/h]
Fellowship with God happens because you believe in Jesus. Not because you keep the law and the 10 commandments.

but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

"Can you be saved and still abide in unrepentant sin?" These kinds of questions are actually contradictions in themselves. There's no such thing as a saved person abiding in unrepentant sin. Because they have to repent of their sins to get saved in the first place. When a person gets saved Jesus washes away all their sins by Faith. All of your sins are repented of and forgiven at the time a you get saved. All sins, past, present and future sins. It's not necessary to mention every single sin you might be guilty of.

Then you mentioned the example of somebody lying to God right before they die.The bible says, "yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;" Everybody's a liar. Therefore, only those who believe in Jesus are not liars. As Jesus said, "To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice." You are "of the Truth" because you believe in Jesus, not because you don't lie. So, yes, a saved person is still "of the Truth" and is still saved even if he lies to God immediately before kicking the bucket.

And as far as committing suicide, A saved person can get so depressed and be put under condemnation for his sins by people like you that he might commit suicide cause he thinks he can't face life anymore and/or nobody loves him, etc. But he is still saved and will still be with Jesus in Heaven, because all of his sins were forgiven him the moment he got saved.

Elin · May 9, 2015

just-me said:

Would you like to give your explanation of that NT command in NT terms?

Separation from condemnation, that is.

Elin · May 9, 2015

just-me said:

The myriad Mosaic laws regulating sacrifices, foods, defilements, purifications, etc. are not related to defining lawlessness, or influencing proper policing, or discipling for self-discipline.

You can't spiritually enlighten about anything using this kind of stuff.

That's quite a yarn you spin. . .fabricated from un-illuminated human ramblings. . .

Holly tamale. . .the church has not been tasked with ministering law to the lawless so they can avoid the curses.

It's your bedtime. . .

Some professing Christains say that God's law is a curse. What? Why?

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