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T
Hiya Sandstorm =)
hows it goin?
Well, I am one of those people who are on the fence about 'speaking in tongues'.
While it says in the Bible to forbid not speaking in tongues, it is quite abstract on it's definition of speaking in tongues. So yes, speaking in tongues is Biblical, but what is speaking in tongues? Is it the seemingly random utterings by the Pentecostals? Though having said that, people like Jackie Pullinger write about how "praying in tongues" helped her Hong Kong ministry phenomenally.
If you read the book of Acts, whenever 'tongues' was used it was as a sign to non-believing Jews. It had a lot more specific purpose than speaking a language that no-one understood, because it /was/ understood and interpreted - and used as a miraculous, magical sign of wonder.
One thing is true tho, if you are speaking random words then you are not speaking to men but to God. That is why Paul is saying 'desire prophecy, guys, it's waaay more useful (paraphrase mine... XD)'.
But, speaking in tongues isn't bad, and I certainly don't think it's demonic. But just bring it back to love. Are you doing this because you love God, or because you love the feeling? Are you really praying to God with this language, or are you just too lazy to use English language?
Don't just read the individual chapter on tongues - read the whole book of corinthians in one sitting. You'll get a better idea that way.
hows it goin?
Well, I am one of those people who are on the fence about 'speaking in tongues'.
While it says in the Bible to forbid not speaking in tongues, it is quite abstract on it's definition of speaking in tongues. So yes, speaking in tongues is Biblical, but what is speaking in tongues? Is it the seemingly random utterings by the Pentecostals? Though having said that, people like Jackie Pullinger write about how "praying in tongues" helped her Hong Kong ministry phenomenally.
If you read the book of Acts, whenever 'tongues' was used it was as a sign to non-believing Jews. It had a lot more specific purpose than speaking a language that no-one understood, because it /was/ understood and interpreted - and used as a miraculous, magical sign of wonder.
One thing is true tho, if you are speaking random words then you are not speaking to men but to God. That is why Paul is saying 'desire prophecy, guys, it's waaay more useful (paraphrase mine... XD)'.
But, speaking in tongues isn't bad, and I certainly don't think it's demonic. But just bring it back to love. Are you doing this because you love God, or because you love the feeling? Are you really praying to God with this language, or are you just too lazy to use English language?
Don't just read the individual chapter on tongues - read the whole book of corinthians in one sitting. You'll get a better idea that way.
This is more than one type of tongues
#1 The tongues the Disciples spoke on the day of Pentecost. A known language to minister to those whom language you do not speak.
#2 The gift of tongues,(spoken of in 1st Cor 12) is a Heavenly language spoke aloud in church for the edification of the whole church that NEEDS interpretation.
#3 A private prayer language that only God knows that edifies yourself, and should be used in your private prayer time, and needs no interpretation.
#1 The tongues the Disciples spoke on the day of Pentecost. A known language to minister to those whom language you do not speak.
#2 The gift of tongues,(spoken of in 1st Cor 12) is a Heavenly language spoke aloud in church for the edification of the whole church that NEEDS interpretation.
#3 A private prayer language that only God knows that edifies yourself, and should be used in your private prayer time, and needs no interpretation.
Tongues do nothing to edify the body of Christ, and never have, because they were not given for that intention. Tongues were given in the early forming of the church so that the Jews could see a sign that the Gentiles also received the word of God and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45, 11:1, 15:7-11). The cloven tongues given to the (120) that were gathered in the upper room were national tongues (of many dialects) so that the Jews, who were gathered in Jerusalem for the Passover from all over the known world, could hear the gospel of Christ in their own dialect. This was also done in the house of Cornelius and for those Jews that were always looking for a sign or some miracle to give validation to their belief. Today we have a Gentile crowd that is looking for a 'sign' of the gifts to give validation for their belief, and if those 'sign' gifts are not active in a local church or in the life of the believer, there is no validation of the Spirit for them. They are oriented to these gifts (including prophecy) instead of hungering and thirsting after righteousness (Mt 5:6). They want to have the gifts in their life to have power instead of taking up their cross and walking in the light of God's word (Mt 16:24-27, 1Jn 1:7).
They get involved with terrible doctrine like having to be baptized to be saved instead of having their heart established in the grace that saved them when they believed (Eph 2:8,9, Heb 13:9). They live in an emotional roller coaster ride of their own understanding concerning the things of the Spirit and never learn how to live in the righteousness of God's assurances and quiet resting places (Is 32:17). They manufacture the fruit of the Spirit, especially love, because they have not been taught that the fruit of the Spirit comes by grace through the righteousness of God (Eph 5:19, Rom 5:21) They live in the prospect of dreams and visions and signs and miracles instead of the light and understanding that God provides to every believer through doctrine and the incorruptible word of his grace (Ps 119:130, 1Pt 1:23). This makes them susceptible to false and strange doctrine, enlightenment that does not come from God and are easily lead by another spirit. If they are not stimulated or worked up in their emotions by the preacher's message they are not satisfied and accuse the preacher of missing the message that God wanted him to preach. Eventually these strange doctrines carry them away from those that love them who are sound in the faith . They will not denounce these strange doctrines because of pride and being reinforced by others who believe as they do.
To preach Christ and him crucified is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16, 1Pt 1:5). Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit by faith in the light that we have received from the word of God is the power of God in us. Paul and other of the apostles were followed by signs and wonders (miracles) to help establish the foundation of the church (especially with the Jews) so that those that would follow would have a sure foundation to build upon, with Christ as the chief corner stone (Eph 2:20). But they must be careful how they build (1Cor 3:10-15). The Jews were to be careful that they continued in grace and not go back to the law or mix the law with grace (Gal 1:6,7, Acts 13:43). The greatest power that we have to impart to sinful man is the preaching of the gospel of Christ that imparts faith so that they can have the power to believe unto salvation. This power is something not seen but is eternal. This power effects people by faith and not by sight. This power imparts grace and imputes righteousness without works. This power reveals the person and work of Christ that was finished on the cross (1Cor 1:18,24). This power takes away all sin and provides all things new. This power raised Christ from the dead and provided justification for sinful man before a holy God.
If you as a believer want something to seek, I suggest that you seek God's face, seek his kingdom, seek his righteousness, seek his promises. If we seek the gifts we make the gifts a law unto ourselves, but the just shall live by faith (Gal 3:11). If we seek repentance we make it the law of repentance for ourselves and others, but the just shall live by faith (Heb 12:17). If we condemn and judge those that sin and transgress the law, we become a judge of the law and not a doer of it (James 4:11).
They get involved with terrible doctrine like having to be baptized to be saved instead of having their heart established in the grace that saved them when they believed (Eph 2:8,9, Heb 13:9). They live in an emotional roller coaster ride of their own understanding concerning the things of the Spirit and never learn how to live in the righteousness of God's assurances and quiet resting places (Is 32:17). They manufacture the fruit of the Spirit, especially love, because they have not been taught that the fruit of the Spirit comes by grace through the righteousness of God (Eph 5:19, Rom 5:21) They live in the prospect of dreams and visions and signs and miracles instead of the light and understanding that God provides to every believer through doctrine and the incorruptible word of his grace (Ps 119:130, 1Pt 1:23). This makes them susceptible to false and strange doctrine, enlightenment that does not come from God and are easily lead by another spirit. If they are not stimulated or worked up in their emotions by the preacher's message they are not satisfied and accuse the preacher of missing the message that God wanted him to preach. Eventually these strange doctrines carry them away from those that love them who are sound in the faith . They will not denounce these strange doctrines because of pride and being reinforced by others who believe as they do.
To preach Christ and him crucified is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16, 1Pt 1:5). Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit by faith in the light that we have received from the word of God is the power of God in us. Paul and other of the apostles were followed by signs and wonders (miracles) to help establish the foundation of the church (especially with the Jews) so that those that would follow would have a sure foundation to build upon, with Christ as the chief corner stone (Eph 2:20). But they must be careful how they build (1Cor 3:10-15). The Jews were to be careful that they continued in grace and not go back to the law or mix the law with grace (Gal 1:6,7, Acts 13:43). The greatest power that we have to impart to sinful man is the preaching of the gospel of Christ that imparts faith so that they can have the power to believe unto salvation. This power is something not seen but is eternal. This power effects people by faith and not by sight. This power imparts grace and imputes righteousness without works. This power reveals the person and work of Christ that was finished on the cross (1Cor 1:18,24). This power takes away all sin and provides all things new. This power raised Christ from the dead and provided justification for sinful man before a holy God.
If you as a believer want something to seek, I suggest that you seek God's face, seek his kingdom, seek his righteousness, seek his promises. If we seek the gifts we make the gifts a law unto ourselves, but the just shall live by faith (Gal 3:11). If we seek repentance we make it the law of repentance for ourselves and others, but the just shall live by faith (Heb 12:17). If we condemn and judge those that sin and transgress the law, we become a judge of the law and not a doer of it (James 4:11).
L
Its such an awesome thing to learn the glories of our maker Sandstorm
I was saved when I was 19 and God has been soooooo good to me ever since, He is the best thing period! You will get just as much bad as you will good asking this kind of question in the forums, because some people are so opinionated and some are very harsh. Tongues is beautiful, and it is precious to God, just like all of the gifts of the Spirit, and don't let anyone tell you differnet! There are differnet kinds of tongues, and different applications, and I would encourage you to do a personal bible study on it and bring all of the scriptures out to evaluate. But a simple breakdown: There are a few different kinds of tongues. 1/ When people where saved in the early church, through the Apostles they were made aware of their sins, repented, believed on the Lord Jesus for justification, but then the apostles told them they needed to be baptised and that the Holy Spirit would come on them, and when this happened they began to speak in other tongues - Just like the apostles and the rest of the 120 who where in the upper room when the Holy Spirit came on them. So these people spoke in another tongue and it was a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Today this kind of thing is known to happen but it is usually not as dramatic as it was back then, but neither is salvation, and repentance etc sadly. (but it is sure to be again when God moves powerfully in these last days.)
Now this manifestation can be found when we receive the Holy Spirit, and begin to speak with a language that we dont know - it can sound like jibberish, and it can be experienced at different levels of intensity and can be a quite profound spiritual experience. You can then speak in this other language at will. Your mind can initially tell you that it is jibberish but as you continue in it it will become more fluent and have more depth. This language is used by the believer to build himself up in the inner man, and its not known to the mind what is being said but the words and noises and utterance is given by the Holy Spirit, and it is the perfect will of God that you are praying. So in effect it is the Holy Spirit helping you to pray - as we dont know what to pray (unless we know prophetically) and so He help us to pray. This is a very important use and catagory of the gift of tongues.
2/ secondly there is a manifestation of the gift of tongues that paul addresses in 1 Cor 14? Where there is a message brough in a church setting in an unknown tongue, and nobody knows what is said, and so nobody is edified or built up and encouraged because they do not understand. Paul teaches that if a message is brought like this that it should be accompanied by an interpretation (which is also a gift of the Holy Spirit called interpretation of tongues) so that the whole church is encouraged and strengthened - makes sense hey? This first application I described strengthens the inner man of the person praying - in his spirit , but in a church setting it doesnt profit unless an interpretation follows, which is why Paul encourages the use of the gift of Prophecy which is again a divine transmission from God, but in a known tongue so everyoe that hears is encouraged in God.
3/ Paul also talks about the fact that he speaks with the tongues of angles. This is another manifestation of speech and is seperate to the other two, but is equally powerful.
Hope this helps - I just encouraged myself typing it up lol! and I pray God shows you AWESOME and WONDERFUL things, as He has me over the years of knowing Him.
Bless you sister.
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Personally, I will go with what scripture says...not everyone will have the gift of tongues.. many particualarly in pentecostal circles just get carried away with emotions and for fear of their peers. But, nonetheless, it is a gift from God, but I don't believe everyone will have this gift.
Blessings
Phil
Blessings
Phil
Yeah I went to church with a friend a couple times and it was...different to say the least. The would have people come up and anoint them with oil, then pray with hands till the person spoke in tongues and then collapsed. And like everyone did it. It ended up everyone was laying on the ground and im just like...this isnt for me and never went back.
S
acts 2:3,4 in the KJV reads
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
where the word tongues is used it is the greek word glossa
meaning
the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
a tongue
OR
the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations
the word utterance is the greek word apophtheggomai pronounced ap-of-theng-o-my
this word is used 3 times in the new testament, in the KJV it is translated once as utterance (acts 2:4) once as said (acts 2:14 - some versions read proclaimed or declared) and once as speak forth (acts 26:25)
meaning
to speak out, speak forth, pronounce
not a word of everyday speech but one "belonging to dignified and elevated discourse"
so we see that where the word tongues is used, it does refer to other languages, but there would have been certain groups within the crowd who understood the language being spoken.
as for utterance, I believe this refers more to the content of what was being spoken not the delivery. The apostles received a revelation of sorts at the time of pentacost, a greater understanding of all things spiritual. I think the use of the word refers to their ability to suddenly articulate things that they previously didn't even understand themselves. It was at this point that the apostles made the transition from the men of 'little faith' as Christ referred to them on numerous occasions to the true prophets of God that went on to guide the Christian church and write the new testament.
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
where the word tongues is used it is the greek word glossa
meaning
the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
a tongue
OR
the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations
the word utterance is the greek word apophtheggomai pronounced ap-of-theng-o-my
this word is used 3 times in the new testament, in the KJV it is translated once as utterance (acts 2:4) once as said (acts 2:14 - some versions read proclaimed or declared) and once as speak forth (acts 26:25)
meaning
to speak out, speak forth, pronounce
not a word of everyday speech but one "belonging to dignified and elevated discourse"
so we see that where the word tongues is used, it does refer to other languages, but there would have been certain groups within the crowd who understood the language being spoken.
as for utterance, I believe this refers more to the content of what was being spoken not the delivery. The apostles received a revelation of sorts at the time of pentacost, a greater understanding of all things spiritual. I think the use of the word refers to their ability to suddenly articulate things that they previously didn't even understand themselves. It was at this point that the apostles made the transition from the men of 'little faith' as Christ referred to them on numerous occasions to the true prophets of God that went on to guide the Christian church and write the new testament.