Speaking in tongues
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No friend, I am saying by refusal to believe ALL of God's word and everything in is for us today, people make Jesus and the word to be a lie and a fraud.
Jesus never did his miracles, merely because he was the son of God...that is the largest lie from hell in the church today and is not supported anywhere in the Bible.....Jesus was sinless, but that is not why he operated the way he did and performed the miracles he did. Until the church understands that , they will remain powerless, continue to suggest the FULL GOSPEL was only needed for the Apostles and the Bible is all they need and everything to do with signs and wonders and miracles has ceased and I am not talking about tongues.
The devil loves it so many Christians today dilute the power and operation of the Holy Ghost. The Bible clearly teaches we are to be led by the word AND walk in the Spirit...it's both, not one over the other...
I know many supposed Pastors that know the word, yet have no power and could not preach or witness their way out of a pit of hell....Likewise I know many that are so spiritual they are modern day Gnostic....
I know many that have a balance of the 2 and those my friend, are the ones that God has anointed to preach the gospel to the poor, destroy yokes, lift burdens, change lives, heal the brokenhearted, and to preach deliverance to the captives.
There are many Christians today that work for God and those that work with God....there is a major difference and no offense to you or anyone here, but when we state something is not needed in the Bible for us today you are squarely stating the Bible is not perfect and that Jesus and his ministry are a liar and fraud...
ANd to be clear, this is not all about supporting tongues....it has nothing to do with tongues
Jesus never did his miracles, merely because he was the son of God...that is the largest lie from hell in the church today and is not supported anywhere in the Bible.....Jesus was sinless, but that is not why he operated the way he did and performed the miracles he did. Until the church understands that , they will remain powerless, continue to suggest the FULL GOSPEL was only needed for the Apostles and the Bible is all they need and everything to do with signs and wonders and miracles has ceased and I am not talking about tongues.
The devil loves it so many Christians today dilute the power and operation of the Holy Ghost. The Bible clearly teaches we are to be led by the word AND walk in the Spirit...it's both, not one over the other...
I know many supposed Pastors that know the word, yet have no power and could not preach or witness their way out of a pit of hell....Likewise I know many that are so spiritual they are modern day Gnostic....
I know many that have a balance of the 2 and those my friend, are the ones that God has anointed to preach the gospel to the poor, destroy yokes, lift burdens, change lives, heal the brokenhearted, and to preach deliverance to the captives.
There are many Christians today that work for God and those that work with God....there is a major difference and no offense to you or anyone here, but when we state something is not needed in the Bible for us today you are squarely stating the Bible is not perfect and that Jesus and his ministry are a liar and fraud...
ANd to be clear, this is not all about supporting tongues....it has nothing to do with tongues
You started a line of thought and then never explained why he done miracles...
Why did Jesus do miracles?
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man APPROVED of God among you by MIRACLES and WONDERS and signs, which GOD did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.....
Exactly what was the reason that Jesus did miracles?
Why did Jesus do miracles?
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man APPROVED of God among you by MIRACLES and WONDERS and signs, which GOD did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.....
Exactly what was the reason that Jesus did miracles?
I've read the argument before that 'they' that spoke in tongues referred to Matthias and the eleven, from chapter 1, as opposed to the larger group of 120 in the upper room. I asked a retired professor of Greek and Latin about it, and he said he'd say it was 70-30 in favor of it referring to the 120 in his opinion. There is probably nothing about the Greek language that leads to one interpretation over the other more than the English translation.
So we do have to look at the context. Peter was addressing the ~120 when he proposed, using scripture, replacing Judas. Matthias was chosen from among that group. Acts 2 tells us that they 'all' spoke with tongues. At least 17 languages or dialects were spoken. The message Peter preached that explained what was going on spoke of the Spirit being poured out on all flesh and their sons and daughters prophesying, and he said to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (in the context of the outpouring of the Spirit being manifested in speaking in tongues, prophecy, dreams and visions), and said that the gift was for 'to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.'
Then we see that Gentiles spoke in tongues in Acts 2 when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
The message he was preaching and the events that followed are not consistent with the idea that this empowerment of the Spirit was only for the apostles.
So we do have to look at the context. Peter was addressing the ~120 when he proposed, using scripture, replacing Judas. Matthias was chosen from among that group. Acts 2 tells us that they 'all' spoke with tongues. At least 17 languages or dialects were spoken. The message Peter preached that explained what was going on spoke of the Spirit being poured out on all flesh and their sons and daughters prophesying, and he said to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (in the context of the outpouring of the Spirit being manifested in speaking in tongues, prophecy, dreams and visions), and said that the gift was for 'to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.'
Then we see that Gentiles spoke in tongues in Acts 2 when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
The message he was preaching and the events that followed are not consistent with the idea that this empowerment of the Spirit was only for the apostles.
This is soooo broadly defined as to mean anything to anybody. This renders the teaching utterly useless.
Our relationship with the Lord is intensely personal. It is strengthened by spending time with the Lord in prayer and study of His word. Tribulation and adversity test and purify us before Him. His love and supply in our time of need give the greatest security and joy we can know.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Our relationship with the Lord is intensely personal. It is strengthened by spending time with the Lord in prayer and study of His word. Tribulation and adversity test and purify us before Him. His love and supply in our time of need give the greatest security and joy we can know.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
They shall take up serpents; and IF they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. . . . This should be taken in the context of IF; not done on purpose as in snake handling. . . .ex: And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth him not to live. And he shook off the beast into the fire and felt no harm. . . . .
Jesus was talking to his followers - are we followers of Christ? - are we believers? If so then he is speaking to us also . . .
Jesus Himself is the living Word (John 1), but Jesus did NO MINISTRY NOR ANY MIRACLE UNTIL THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME UPON HIM WITHOUT MEASURE.
Matthew 3:16 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[HR][/HR]Mark 1:10 (KJV) [SUP]10 [/SUP]And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
[HR][/HR]Luke 3:22 (KJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP]And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
[HR][/HR]John 1:32 (KJV) [SUP]32 [/SUP]And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jesus as a man had to receive the Spirit of God to perform His ministry & be an example to the church as to how they should minister.
Not only so, but Jesus said this:
John 14:12-14 [SUP]12 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me (the church, not the apostles), the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Matthew 3:16 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[HR][/HR]Mark 1:10 (KJV) [SUP]10 [/SUP]And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
[HR][/HR]Luke 3:22 (KJV) [SUP]22 [/SUP]And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
[HR][/HR]John 1:32 (KJV) [SUP]32 [/SUP]And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jesus as a man had to receive the Spirit of God to perform His ministry & be an example to the church as to how they should minister.
Not only so, but Jesus said this:
John 14:12-14 [SUP]12 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me (the church, not the apostles), the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Now, I would agree with this....imagine me agreeing with Sea Perch HAH! The world must be coming to an end soon! 
Everybody knows there were 120 people there. What part of all don't you & Sea Bass understand??
But ye shall receive power, after that the holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth and ye shall speak in tongues to accomplish this - nope, doesn't say that. Doesn't say that in Matt. 28:19 either . . . .
This is the "power" they received that enabled them to be witnesses of all that they had seen and heard -
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them that they had been with Jesus. v29) And now Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, v31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the holy Spirit and they spake the word of God with boldness. . . .
God' promise of the holy Spirit was only for the apostles?
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:9-13
AND this is 'only for the apostles'?
. . . Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Spirit. Acts 2:38
And within that gift of holy Spirit are nine manifestations - 1 Cor. 12:7
This is the "power" they received that enabled them to be witnesses of all that they had seen and heard -
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them that they had been with Jesus. v29) And now Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, v31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the holy Spirit and they spake the word of God with boldness. . . .
God' promise of the holy Spirit was only for the apostles?
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:9-13
AND this is 'only for the apostles'?
. . . Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Spirit. Acts 2:38
And within that gift of holy Spirit are nine manifestations - 1 Cor. 12:7
Actually ONE gift [of holy Spirit] with NINE manifestations - 1 Co. 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. . .
Just as there is ONE fruit [of the Spirit] with NINE manifestations: 1) love 2) joy 3) peace 4) longsuffering 5) gentleness 6) goodness 7) faith 8) meekness 9) temperance. . . .
Just as there is ONE fruit [of the Spirit] with NINE manifestations: 1) love 2) joy 3) peace 4) longsuffering 5) gentleness 6) goodness 7) faith 8) meekness 9) temperance. . . .
All flesh receives the Holy Spirit when they are quickened at the new birth. The visions and prophecy are to Israel if you bother to look at the text. It changes from all flesh to your daughters and your sons. Tighten up the exegesis just a little. God does send prophecy through His chosen nation Israel. From them then to the rest of the world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
P
In this particular instance, He was talking specifically to His disciples: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: [SUP] [/SUP]But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[SUP] [/SUP]And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
[SUP] [/SUP]Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
[SUP] [/SUP]And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
[SUP] [/SUP]Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
P
You misunderstand my point. I would never say such a thing. Paul said: "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [SUP] [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP] [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP] [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
Charity is the only thing he mentioned that never fails. All others will fade away as we grow to perfection in Him. Those gifts as Paul refers to them here, were meant as a show of God's power and authority. That need is not here today. We all know about Him, and we need no such signs to establish His omnipotence in our minds.
[SUP] [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP] [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
Charity is the only thing he mentioned that never fails. All others will fade away as we grow to perfection in Him. Those gifts as Paul refers to them here, were meant as a show of God's power and authority. That need is not here today. We all know about Him, and we need no such signs to establish His omnipotence in our minds.
Read the context again and see that Jesus was speaking to His apostles in Acts 1:1-7 and after speaking to His apostles Jesus ascended from earth, verse 9. It was a different place and time with the meeting with the 120 (verses 12-15) Jesus was not speaking to the 120 and therefore could not be promising them the baptism with the Holy Spirit. This has to do with place and time and not the Greek language.
After the people heard the apostles speak in tongues, verse 14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven.."
It's not Peter standing with the 120.
Also, after hearing the apostles speak in tongues the crowd said "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?"
The ones that spoke in tongues in Acts 2 were the ones that from Galilee. THe apostles were from Galilee, Acts 1:11. Galilee was a good distance from Jerusalem. That all the 120 were from Galilee and not a single one from right there in Jerusalem (or elsewhere) is to improbable to be possible.
Also, some scholars estimate that as many as from 5 to 6 up to 11 or 12 years passed between Acts 2 and Acts 10. After the Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Ghost, Peter said in Acts 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning"
Peter had to go all the way back to "the beginning" at Pentecost in Acts 2 to find a similar occurance of baptism with the Holy Spirit as it had occured with the Gentiles. If baptism with the HS was a common occurance among disciples/believers, then why would Peter have to go so far back to find another similar occurance of that baptism? It becomes apparent, al least to me, that Acts 2 and Acts 10 are the only two occurances of baptism with the HS. Apostles (Jews) in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10 make up all flesh, the Lord therefore fulfilling Joel's prophecy bringing that prophecy to an end.
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