Speaking in Tounges

[edward99]

Would he? This is the kind of thing that I cannot relate to. Seeing that I am not Paul, I cannot speak for him. Seeing that I do not speak in tongues, I cannot speak against them. Do you understand my heart here? I do not speak for or against them. This is what I call "discernment". To me this is a spiritual issue...that means that if it is something the Holy Spirit does I remain silent because it is well beyond my pay grade. I am a lowly sinner saved by grace.

God as called us to follow His son and my prayer is that we hear more of Him and less of us! I don't know about you, but I hear way too much of me and it drives me to my knees.

Uh....yes, Paul would be mortified.
For one thing, even if the gibbering going on today WAS the real languages he described, it's STILL not done the way he instructed.

So, just because you don't operate a defective chain saw, you don't speak out against them?
OK.
To each their own.

It's really kind of simple you know. They just spoke gentile languages - exactly as was prophesied would happen and it did.
Why isn't that enough of a miracle?

Why can't God just get THE GLORY FOR THAT?

Maybe because all these have-nots want something "special".

Do you want the Red Sea parted every Sunday?

 

[Crossfire]

Gotcha.

So...are you a Charismatic? Pentecostal?
Speak in tongues, do you?
What other gifts do you manifest?

Personally, I don't place a lot of emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit because I feel the Fruit of the Spirit are far more important seeing as Jesus Himself said that we can discern the authentic believer from the counterfeit according to their fruit (Matthew 7:15).

Galatians 5:22-26

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

btw - I really love that last verse!

 

[edward99]

Personally, I don't place a lot of emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit because I feel the Fruit of the Spirit are far more important seeing as Jesus Himself said that we can discern the authentic believer from the counterfeit according to their fruit (Matthew 7:15).
btw - I really love that last verse!

Me too!
Love is good.
Especially between brothers in Christ.
Not everyone who says they are a brother is one though.
Are they.

I'll see what you believe and get back to you.

 

[Crossfire]

Me too!
Love is good.
Especially between brothers in Christ.
Not everyone who says they are a brother is one though.
Are they.

I'll see what you believe and get back to you.

Personally, I don't have an issue loving and fellowshipping with other professing Christians who hold to beliefs that differ somewhat from my own. I've discovered that when Christians possess a humble heart and I contrite Spirit as scripture commands, we can all get along despite our differences. In fact, that's exactly what my posts today are about.

I will walk in love regardless. What you do, is entirely up to you.

 

[IMINJC]

edward


I was just wondering....exactly how many does your church sleeps?

 

[edward99]

edward


I was just wondering....exactly how many does your church sleeps?

Say again?

 

[edward99]

Personally, I don't have an issue loving and fellowshipping with other professing Christians who hold to beliefs that differ somewhat from my own. I've discovered that when Christians possess a humble heart and I contrite Spirit as scripture commands, we can all get along despite our differences. In fact, that's exactly what my posts today are about.

I will walk in love regardless. What you do, is entirely up to you.

OK. So we'll leave all the "my kind" murdering "your kind" until tomorrow?
Or....no, that one was today.
So you don't REALLY mean what you say, but it looks good

 

[oldhermit]

Ok, I'll start this out by saying I'm NOT a cessationist. I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit 100%. Tounges, Prophecy, healing, discernement, wisdom, teaching. All of them. But I get sooooo AGGRAVATED when I see these people on t.v. who are claiming to speak in tounges when they start babbling a bunch of nonsense. shubadiyadomansula. That is NOT speaking in tounges is it?! Is it REALLY!?..It's a bunch of crap. There just mumbling nonsensical crap. When I think of speaking in tounges I think of the first pentecost of the church when the Holy Spirit came like FIRE on the men and they were totally overcame by the power and spoke in a heavenly language. I do not believe this was something conscience and controllable. I don't believe you can control tounges anymore then you can open your eyes when you sneeze. And to see these people babbling in the flesh makes me cringe. It looks foolish, and it just makes a mockery of the gifts.

/rant

I agree 100% with your assessment of these so-called television evangelists.
If you will notice however, in Acts 2:5-6, it does not say that they spoke in a "heavenly language," but that they spoke in the languages that were represented by those "Jews, devout men" who had come to Jerusalem from all over the world for the day of Pentecost. The apostles were speaking to them in the "languages in which they were born."

 

[oldhermit]

My friend, I understand your frustration. Over the years, I believe I have met more counterfeits than I have authentic. However, I have learned that the key to tell the authentic from the counterfeir is their fruit. I don't put any stock in anyone's spiritual gift unless they possess the spiritual fruit that comes with it.

As for tv preachers, I ignore them. Doctrinally most aren't worth watching. However, I'm not close enough to them personally to be able to see their fruit for myself thus I reserve judgement for the Lord.

You are right. The one thing a fraud hates above all else is the genuine artical.

 

[Crossfire]

OK. So we'll leave all the "my kind" murdering "your kind" until tomorrow?
Or....no, that one was today.
So you don't REALLY mean what you say, but it looks good

Out of the heart the mouth speaks.... with every word you indict yourself.

I'll be praying for you. Not that you believe your God will hear my prayers but then again, according to you, we're not brothers thus we can't possibly be praying to same God....

Ironically, my God actually answers prayer. He changes lives also.

 

[Abiding]

Out of the heart the mouth speaks.... with every word you indict yourself.

I'll be praying for you. Not that you believe your God will hear my prayers but then again, according to you, we're not brothers thus we can't possibly be praying to same God....

Ironically, my God actually answers prayer. He changes lives also.

this is fruit? really? these are words that come from abiding?

 

[Ariel82]

Christ and the apostles are clear on this . The gift of the Holy Spirit is for when the Elect are delivered up before the false Messiah . It's something you understand and its for a certain hour. Not now. What people try to pass off for it is wrong. The gift of the Holy Spirit is beautiful for a certain time, Not now. Unless those people plan on standing before the world and the false Messiah. If not, then the stuff that is coming out of their mouth today is pure Babel.
Confusion. its terrible. Read Act's its something you understand.

In other scriptures understand that tongues is languages.



Mark 13

Luke 21

Matthew 24

Acts 2

Joel 2:28-32

Luke 12:10

so Nathan , how did you come to dig this thread up? last post before yours was in May.....

 

[greatblue]

So, just because you don't operate a defective chain saw, you don't speak out against them?

If we so adamantly feel we are always right, we might very well gloss over everything else and actually miss seeing important truths. This is the pharisaic pitfall that was demonstrated for all of us.

Edward99, I do not attend a church where there is any public speaking in tongues. My church body is not a place where people leap down aisles with flags and lay on the floor giggling. Apart from offering prayer during or after a service, there isn't any laying on of hands or "slaying"...whatever that actually is supposed to be/do (I've seen your other post). My church is nondenominational and very much grounded in Christ Jesus and God's word. As I have said, I believe charismatic chaos is incorrect and headed in the wrong direction. I also agree that TV "church" and performative "tongues" looks like chaos and confusion, misuse and abuse. But this has not been the point of my posts.

Where you and I differ is that I will not be so bold as to say that the Holy Spirit does not continue to bestow the gift of tongues in this day and age. To do so, as far as I can discern, would be pharisaic. Again, all of my posts have been aimed against cessationists, not for charismatic/pentecostal church practices. Cessationism is a man-made theory, not a literal word from God. Again, with any mad-made beliefs we fall into the pharisaic pitfall where we stand more on what we say about God's word than what God actually says in His word. God's word did not stamp "ceased" on a gift of the Holy Spirit, man did.

 

[edward99]

If we so adamantly feel we are always right, we might very well gloss over everything else and actually miss seeing important truths. This is the pharisaic pitfall that was demonstrated for all of us.

Edward99, I do not attend a church where there is any public speaking in tongues. My church body is not a place where people leap down aisles with flags and lay on the floor giggling. Apart from offering prayer during or after a service, there isn't any laying on of hands or "slaying"...whatever that actually is supposed to be/do (I've seen your other post). My church is nondenominational and very much grounded in Christ Jesus and God's word. As I have said, I believe charismatic chaos is incorrect and headed in the wrong direction. I also agree that TV "church" and performative "tongues" looks like chaos and confusion, misuse and abuse. But this has not been the point of my posts.

Where you and I differ is that I will not be so bold as to say that the Holy Spirit does not continue to bestow the gift of tongues in this day and age. To do so, as far as I can discern, would be pharisaic. Again, all of my posts have been aimed against cessationists, not for charismatic/pentecostal church practices. Cessationism is a man-made theory, not a literal word from God. Again, with any mad-made beliefs we fall into the pharisaic pitfall where we stand more on what we say about God's word than what God actually says in His word. God's word did not stamp "ceased" on a gift of the Holy Spirit, man did.

"Where you and I differ is that I will not be so bold as to say that the Holy Spirit does not continue to bestow the gift of tongues in this day and age."

No, blue.
Where you and i differ is on what the gift of tongues is.

As I said, if you suddenly wake up tomorrow and miraculously speak and/or understand a known human language you did not study, God has bestowed the gift of tongues in this day and age.

You can call me a pharisee all day long over it; until we get a grip on what occurred at Pentecost according to the promise, we're discussing apples and oranges.

Can you see the paradox in this statement?:

"Again, all of my posts have been aimed against cessationists, not for charismatic/pentecostal church practices."

If you can show why you have a problem with charismatic chaos for any reason, any reason at all, we can discuss it starting from there. In other words, why is there any problem at all?
If the manifestations in charismatic wings of the church are of the very same kind as we see at Pentecost, there's no problem. It should be easy and simple to determine if these are of the same kind.


What issues do you see with "charismatic/pentecostal church practices."

Ed.

 

[Ariel82]

Originally Posted by edward99

So, just because you don't operate a defective chain saw, you don't speak out against them?

long as u dont deny the existaNCE OF effective working chainsaws.....

 

[edward99]

So, just because you don't operate a defective chain saw, you don't speak out against them?

long as u dont deny the existaNCE OF effective working chainsaws.....

Well, I appreciate where you are coming from, but I'm not compromising by calling an apple an orange.

Re: Speaking in Tounges

What was the gift of tongues?

 

[edward99]

Here's a very simple, easy to read examination of the issue of tongues (just one of so many).
Does this ring true?




The Gift of Tongues

by Alan Conner

A known Language or Unintelligible Utterances?

The Gift of Speaking in Tongues

 

[edward99]

Of course, there's this issue to be resolved:

"The charismatic movement has sparked many controversies within the church today. Their proponents have claimed that they have witnessed a revival of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, including the gift of tongues. Many have objected to this claim based on texts of Scripture which they believe argue that the so-called sign gifts were temporary in nature."

The Gift of Speaking in Tongues

Are we looking at a "continuation" of the gifts from Pentecost, or a "revival" of them?

For if they are supposedly being "revived"; it means they for some reason "ceased".

Ideas have been put forward basically that jealous have-nots suppressed the gifts and they ceased; disobedience caused them to cease; "dead religion" snuffed them out, and so on.

In any of these cases, they stopped and were restarted apparently. So continuationism is out the window regardless.

One of the original claims/proofs for the "revival" of the gifts was for Latter Rain outpourings (a misreading of Joel and a refusal to aknowledge Joel's fulfillment proclaimd by Peter) - yet another "cessation" for an unspecified length of time.

So, is there any proof at all the gifts described in Scripture actually continued throughout time as one would expect if we simple make the claim (ex) "God is still giving the gifts today"

 

[resurrection33]

Ok, I'll start this out by saying I'm NOT a cessationist. I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit 100%. Tounges, Prophecy, healing, discernement, wisdom, teaching. All of them. But I get sooooo AGGRAVATED when I see these people on t.v. who are claiming to speak in tounges when they start babbling a bunch of nonsense. shubadiyadomansula. That is NOT speaking in tounges is it?! Is it REALLY!?..It's a bunch of crap. There just mumbling nonsensical crap. When I think of speaking in tounges I think of the first pentecost of the church when the Holy Spirit came like FIRE on the men and they were totally overcame by the power and spoke in a heavenly language. I do not believe this was something conscience and controllable. I don't believe you can control tounges anymore then you can open your eyes when you sneeze. And to see these people babbling in the flesh makes me cringe. It looks foolish, and it just makes a mockery of the gifts.

/rant

I believe most speaking in tongues in this day and age is gibberish. What purpose does it serve?

 

[greatblue]

You can call me a pharisee all day long over it; until we get a grip on what occurred at Pentecost according to the promise, we're discussing apples and oranges.

Showing a similarity between what the pharisees did and what we/man can do today is not calling you a pharisee. I apologize if it read that way. I am only trying to note the importance of not letting strongholds develop because of man-made theology, which is the pharisaic pitfall.

Because of this, I'll be exiting this thread.