SPIRITUALISM IN THE CHURCH
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Now this is interesting....
You said "But then you figure,well if these people that made the world evil are misled,do they still deserve to go to Heaven?
No they don't because it takes more than ignorance and deception to commit evil.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
He left noone out.
You said "It also takes inclination,you gotta want to do the things that you do.... nobody forces you."
[h=1]James 1:14 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire.
A man will not sin, without he is tempted by the enemy.
You said "A fornicator do that because they like it...it feel good physically."
A racist do that because it good on another level.
Just like a murderer do that because it feel good to them.
A pedophile do that because it feel good.
Again...
[h=1]James 1:14 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire
Feel good is the bait for temptation.
You said "This is inclination,this is why I say that a adult that going against God's word ain't got no excuse...they like doing what they doing."
Do you realize that man cannot sin without he is tempted of the devil? That's why there is salvation for man, and none for Satan and his cronies....Satan did not need help to sin...You do.
Still, a Christian has no real excuse as you say. He has the Word, He has the Holy Spirit and he has the Father living inside him. He is responsible for who he listens to.
You said "But then you figure,well if these people that made the world evil are misled,do they still deserve to go to Heaven?
No they don't because it takes more than ignorance and deception to commit evil.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
He left noone out.
You said "It also takes inclination,you gotta want to do the things that you do.... nobody forces you."
[h=1]James 1:14 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire.
A man will not sin, without he is tempted by the enemy.
You said "A fornicator do that because they like it...it feel good physically."
A racist do that because it good on another level.
Just like a murderer do that because it feel good to them.
A pedophile do that because it feel good.
Again...
[h=1]James 1:14 (CJB)[/h] [SUP]14 [/SUP]Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire
Feel good is the bait for temptation.
You said "This is inclination,this is why I say that a adult that going against God's word ain't got no excuse...they like doing what they doing."
Do you realize that man cannot sin without he is tempted of the devil? That's why there is salvation for man, and none for Satan and his cronies....Satan did not need help to sin...You do.
Still, a Christian has no real excuse as you say. He has the Word, He has the Holy Spirit and he has the Father living inside him. He is responsible for who he listens to.
W
I don't think there are necessarily other spirits, but I do think it is sometimes a matter of people riling each other up and thinking they hear/ see / experience things that are not taking place.
The bible is clear that spirit is orderly, yet I've been to meetings where everyone spoke "in tongues" and no- one translated, and another where the one speaking "in tongues" kept interrupting other peoples testimonies. That doesn't seem like the real thing to me.
The bible is clear that spirit is orderly, yet I've been to meetings where everyone spoke "in tongues" and no- one translated, and another where the one speaking "in tongues" kept interrupting other peoples testimonies. That doesn't seem like the real thing to me.
W
Why not be less condescending, good idea?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? [SUP]9 [/SUP]So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. [SUP]11 [/SUP]If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[SUP][d][/SUP] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? [SUP]17 [/SUP]You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? [SUP]9 [/SUP]So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. [SUP]11 [/SUP]If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. [SUP]12 [/SUP]So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[SUP][d][/SUP] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? [SUP]17 [/SUP]You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
yep, yep, good stuff here...hard for people to admit that most are in the flesh in services
It is not as spiritual as saying its all evil spirits and the devil, but your analysis is spot on.
I was asked to preach at a church once and half way through worship a young woman starts acting like she is possessed. Rolling on the floor, snarling, growling, then acting afraid and crying, basically manifesting all sorts of foolishness.
The young adults pastor began trying to "cast" demons out of her, rebuking evil spirits in the name of Jesus, his wife was helping him. the 2 of them were Getty sweaty from all the hard work they were doing agaisnt the powers of darkness. the more they delivered her, the worse she got. The pastor rand over and lots of people were praying and while "deliverance " was going on.
I was trusted by this pastor so I stood up while they were busy with the deliverance of the young woman went to the front and got everyone's attention and said...Hey, no music just say the name Jesus with me, say it again, we just very softly said, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...about 3 minutes went by and the woman stopped acting out and all was quiet except for about 150 people saying, Jesus very softly.. I looked at her and said, you are welcome to stay and there was never a demon in you....she looked at me and said, you are right she said I have no demon, I just wanted the attention and she got up and walked out of the service. The Holy Spirit told me she just wanted attention and only had the minds of a 13 year old, despite being close to 25. Her parents later confirmed her mental disability as such.
In this case, it was not the powers of darkness or the flesh. It was mentally disabled girl and a case of no discernment or Spirit leading by a Pastor and his wife, who were in their flesh.
I was taught that whenever something looks spiritual to immediately redirect attention to Jesus and then ask the Holy Spirit to lead you from there.....he will show you all things
It is not as spiritual as saying its all evil spirits and the devil, but your analysis is spot on.
I was asked to preach at a church once and half way through worship a young woman starts acting like she is possessed. Rolling on the floor, snarling, growling, then acting afraid and crying, basically manifesting all sorts of foolishness.
The young adults pastor began trying to "cast" demons out of her, rebuking evil spirits in the name of Jesus, his wife was helping him. the 2 of them were Getty sweaty from all the hard work they were doing agaisnt the powers of darkness. the more they delivered her, the worse she got. The pastor rand over and lots of people were praying and while "deliverance " was going on.
I was trusted by this pastor so I stood up while they were busy with the deliverance of the young woman went to the front and got everyone's attention and said...Hey, no music just say the name Jesus with me, say it again, we just very softly said, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...about 3 minutes went by and the woman stopped acting out and all was quiet except for about 150 people saying, Jesus very softly.. I looked at her and said, you are welcome to stay and there was never a demon in you....she looked at me and said, you are right she said I have no demon, I just wanted the attention and she got up and walked out of the service. The Holy Spirit told me she just wanted attention and only had the minds of a 13 year old, despite being close to 25. Her parents later confirmed her mental disability as such.
In this case, it was not the powers of darkness or the flesh. It was mentally disabled girl and a case of no discernment or Spirit leading by a Pastor and his wife, who were in their flesh.
I was taught that whenever something looks spiritual to immediately redirect attention to Jesus and then ask the Holy Spirit to lead you from there.....he will show you all things
There are 2 points of contentions you need to address for applying that as continuous today about verse 14.
#1. Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit; That is why the Holy Spirit is no longer to be found outside of us because that is where the spirit of the antichrist dwells.
1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 John 4:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
#2 You are implying that the priests fell backwards; prove that is what is meant when it can be read as unable to minister in the place any more that they had to leave.
We go to Strong's Concordance that gives a lot of leeway for the meaning of stand from the Hebrew word 'amad that it was defined from.
"a primitive root; to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative, intransitive and transitive):--abide (behind), appoint, arise, cease, confirm, continue, dwell, be employed, endure, establish, leave, make, ordain, be (over), place, (be) present (self), raise up, remain, repair, + serve, set (forth, over, -tle, up), (make to, make to be at a, with-)stand (by, fast, firm, still, up), (be at a) stay (up), tarry."
HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames VersionHere is proof why you should not apply that to mean falling backwards in worship.
Proverbs 25:[SUP]26 [/SUP]A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.[SUP]27 [/SUP]It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory.[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.
If that is an appearance of evil, then there is no way that was happening in the temple in the O.T. No way.
And it is not happening in the N.T. churches either, because...
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]32 [/SUP]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[SUP]33 [/SUP]For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
So applying 2 Chronicles 5:14 to justify falling backwards in loss of self control in these movements of the "Spirit" is just plain wrong application of scripture.
#1. Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit; That is why the Holy Spirit is no longer to be found outside of us because that is where the spirit of the antichrist dwells.
1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 John 4:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
#2 You are implying that the priests fell backwards; prove that is what is meant when it can be read as unable to minister in the place any more that they had to leave.
We go to Strong's Concordance that gives a lot of leeway for the meaning of stand from the Hebrew word 'amad that it was defined from.
"a primitive root; to stand, in various relations (literal and figurative, intransitive and transitive):--abide (behind), appoint, arise, cease, confirm, continue, dwell, be employed, endure, establish, leave, make, ordain, be (over), place, (be) present (self), raise up, remain, repair, + serve, set (forth, over, -tle, up), (make to, make to be at a, with-)stand (by, fast, firm, still, up), (be at a) stay (up), tarry."
HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames VersionHere is proof why you should not apply that to mean falling backwards in worship.
Proverbs 25:[SUP]26 [/SUP]A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.[SUP]27 [/SUP]It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory.[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.
If that is an appearance of evil, then there is no way that was happening in the temple in the O.T. No way.
And it is not happening in the N.T. churches either, because...
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]32 [/SUP]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[SUP]33 [/SUP]For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
So applying 2 Chronicles 5:14 to justify falling backwards in loss of self control in these movements of the "Spirit" is just plain wrong application of scripture.
The only one contending and making implications here is you and you are in grave deceptive error to be contending scripture against scripture. Scripture interprets scripture not to be used to elevate a pet doctrine over a Bible fact.
If anyone is spreading confusion here that would be you. The only one suggesting falling backwards was you. I never contended it nor implied it sir.
If anyone is spreading confusion here that would be you. The only one suggesting falling backwards was you. I never contended it nor implied it sir.