Ten Ways to Fall for the "Saved by Grace, Perfected by the Flesh" Trap!

MessageOfTheCross · Oct 10, 2016

JGIG said:

Paul is not referring to dying out to sin daily. He argued that we should become dead to sin once, and then stay dead to sin always [ Rom. 6:6-11; Gal.2:20].

Question? What does Luke 9:23-24 meaning?

Luke 9:23-24 New King James Version (NKJV)

Take Up the Cross and Follow Him

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily,[SUP][a][/SUP] and follow Me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.

Chester · Oct 10, 2016

JGIG said:

Easy! If falling from grace means "depending on my own efforts" and "not on Christ's finished work" - then that sounds like I am not having faith in the finished work of Christ. But if this person is still "going to be with the Lord when they die" - the conclusion is that "a believer can live without faith and go to heaven"! (But the funny thing is a person "without faith" is not a believer!)

(See post # 37 for background of this . . .)

Sound confusing!!?? I agree!

Chester · Oct 10, 2016

MessageOfTheCross said:

Billy Graham used to say it this way:

The cross was the place of execution: Today it would be as if Jesus said, "Take up your electric chair and follow me!"

I think these verses mean that we daily put our physical lives at stake for the kingdom of God.

It does not mean a spiritual death (dying with Christ) of our old nature. That occurs when we are born again (Romans 6).

seed_time_harvest · Oct 10, 2016

MessageOfTheCross said:

Well you call them a believer,but If they are practicing sin,they are not born of the Spirit of GOD.

Stephen63 · Oct 10, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Don't even tell me you don't recognize Paul Ellis when you see him..... You're not squirming outta this one, LOL!

Grace777x70 · Oct 10, 2016

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Originally Posted by Stephen63

This is the guy you got it from:

It's true!

LOL....I love that picture. Where did you get that?....that is hilarious!....I could use that for fun sometime..lol....

PS..what did you mean by quoting?

Stephen63 said:

Ok...but, but, but....this is Paul Ellis below.....that picture is someone else...but they do both have beards though.....can I use that picture? I think it's hilarious.

Here is the link to prove it....that picture you have looks like something that John Crowder would do...lol..he's funny and a bit nutty!

https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Ellis/e/B003DAOP32/ref=pd_sim_b_bl_5

MessageOfTheCross · Oct 10, 2016

Chester said:

Deny yourself simply means one denies one's own will power, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ.

Take up your cross daily simply means receive the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need.

Daily: This is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster.

and follow me : Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15].

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.

Stunnedbygrace · Oct 10, 2016

Chester said:

I think it's not quite as simple as that...
A lot of people trust Him for their salvation but then get it a little messed up for a while, just like the Galatians did, by thinking they then have to make themselves holy somehow. And they have to find out the hard way that they can't. That there is something in them that makes them do what with all their heart they don't want to do. I used to murder everyone I came in contact with. I am not exaggerating the point. I was constantly angry at their demands of what I do for them but then when I needed help, they were so selfish and there was no help to be found. If anyone didn't rinse off their plate and the food and cheese was caked on the next morning, I would scrub and murder, scrub and murder, rinse and repeat. And when I saw I had failed, despite my best efforts and had murdered again, I would fall into depression at being how I didn't want to be. And when I would cycle up out of my depression, I would resolve to try harder. And then the cycle began again, always ending in my failure to be holy in my heart. I was allowed to go on this way for years until one day I said, I give up. I cannot do it. If it's to be done, you have to do it Lord, please have mercy on me! And I very quickly began to have great victory over my murdering in spirit.

So what I'm trying to say is...it is possible to have trust in Him in one area but rely on your own strength in another. It is possible to firmly believe some of what He said and promised and to be in some mistrust and unbelief in some other thing He promised. We grow in our trust (faith). It's a race of trust and the more that trust is excersized through trials of trust, the stronger it grows.

Grace777x70 · Oct 10, 2016

Here is a picture of that Crowder guy with the "Queen"....he does all kinds of antics and funny things in pictures.....and he does believe in the grace of Christ too...so he's your man in the "Wanted for preaching hyper-grace" picture. I'm sure he made that up himself...lol!

Stephen63 · Oct 10, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Originally Posted by Stephen63

This is the guy you got it from:

It's true!

LOL....I love that picture. Where did you get that?....that is hilarious!....I could use that for fun sometime..lol....

PS..what did you mean by quoting?

Ok...but, but, but....this is Paul Ellis below.....that picture is someone else...but they do both have beards though.....can I use that picture? I think it's hilarious.

Here is the link to prove it....that picture you have looks like something that John Crowder would do...lol..he's funny and a bit nutty!

https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Ellis/e/B003DAOP32/ref=pd_sim_b_bl_5

It's off his twitter page. Now..... confess you quote Paul Ellis. Don't make me prove it.

Grace777x70 · Oct 10, 2016

Stephen63 said:

Sorry Stephen I have never been on Paul Ellis's twitter page. Maybe he's using that picture as a way to joke?...he has lot's of pictures.

Does he have other pictures on his twitter page or just this one that you are referring to? "Wanted"...?

Send me the link please to his twitter page so that c an check it out. I have not used twitter before.

I do use some of his articles if I think they are useful in a discussion. I usually put in the website address for those anting to verify the article. I also like the fact that we can ask questions on a teaching at the bottom. I usually learn quite a bit from that too.

Grace777x70 · Oct 10, 2016

Stephen63 said:

Hey thanks for showing me his twitter page. I don't use twitter at all but you made me curious about it. I was right. It is full of pictures. Lot's of good stuff on there....but the funny "Wanted" picture is NOT Paul Ellis.

He may have that picture somewhere on there but it is not him. I'm pretty sure it's that Crowder guy.

Here is one that is on there now. This is NOT Paul Ellis either.

https://twitter.com/paul_ellis

Gr8grace · Oct 10, 2016

Chester said:

I agree with you. That is the message I get.

But the funny thing you mentioned? They are not without salvation. The moment we believe we are saved and saved forever. If our faith wanes HIS does NOT.

If we are faithless, He remains faithful.

And any believer who believes that salvation can be lost............has lost THE faith. Doesn't mean they lost salvation.

Grace777x70 · Oct 10, 2016

I found this picture on that twitter site. Am I ever glad you showed me that twitter thing Stephen...thanks again! Bless you!

Us men know the answer to this question!....Don't we?....

Gr8grace · Oct 10, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Its not the plants honey that make you look fat, its all the fruit of the tree of good and evil that you chowed down on that made you fat!

Grace777x70 · Oct 10, 2016

Gr8grace said:

Ohhh...you are so bold!...lol...

Ok let's try this question. We are out fishing in the wilderness - just the guys.....no wives are there...if we express our opinion - are we still wrong?

( Pssst...Don't answer that!...lol..that's a trick question with potential severe consequences...see us so-called hyper-grace believers know there are consequences to things here on this earth...... )

EmilyNats · Oct 10, 2016

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

MessageOfTheCross · Oct 11, 2016

THOSE WHO HAVE DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH

To depart from the faith means that a person had once been in the faith. When we speak of faith here at the ministry, we’re speaking of faith in the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ. When people leave the Cross and turn to other things, which millions are now doing, the Scripture says of them: “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils” (I Tim. 4:1).

Needless to say, such individuals, as with the lukewarm and as with those who have a form of godliness, are labeled by the Lord as unsaved, despite their claims, and will not go in the rapture.

Regrettably and sadly, there is less true gospel of Jesus Christ being preached presently than at any time since the Reformation. As a result, fewer people are being born again. Fewer believers are being baptized with the Holy Spirit. Fewer lives are being changed.

Pastor Jimmy Swaggart

Grace777x70 · Oct 11, 2016

What does the scripture actually say about departing from the faith in 1 Tim. 4 "in context"?

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 11, 2016

JGIG said:

selective reading seems to be rampant on CC these past few months. Its sad.

Ten Ways to Fall for the "Saved by Grace, Perfected by the Flesh" Trap!

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