Textual conditions vs The sensible horizon

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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#61
Well he explained it in words, but the dream was not a dream of words, it was a dream of symbolic types. And again the root of all linguistics is pictures and types...so it must be considered in your presentation of the truth of Gods word? Right?
Every symbol, picture, or icon that enters your mind must be converted into lexical form or the symbol cannot be understood. When Joseph sees this batch of symbols in his dream his lexical index automatically says, this is me and my brothers - field - wheat sheaves. In other words the symbols in this dream have immediate context because he is able to link these symbols to language. Had he not known what wheat was or what a sheave of wheat looked like he could have had no point of reference to understand what he saw. Even though he comprehends all of the symbols within the dream he does not yet understand the meaning of the dream itself because this information was offered as part of the dream. That remained unrevealed information.
 

oldhermit

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#62
The lamb is way before Johns Dream or vision! The Lamb was a symbolic part of the true faith from before Abraham! Do you not know that? Im not even talking about the book of Revelation, im talking about how God communicates His Will apart from the direct use of words.
Of course I know that, but that has absolutely nothing to do with anything I am talking about.
 

oldhermit

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#63
royal is arguing outside revelation determines the validity of the Word of God rather than the Word of God determining the validity of the source of the outside revelation.
If that is what he is arguing then he does not understand the role of scripture. Scripture is not contingent upon any source other than the reality of God for its validation.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#64
Of course I know that, but that has absolutely nothing to do with anything I am talking about.
Well its your thread, If what your saying is so complex, normal people cant understand it...do you really think its a concept or precept of God?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#65
If that is what he is arguing then he does not understand the role of scripture. Scripture is not contingent upon any source other than the reality of God for its validation.
How do you know the reality of God? By what is made! In creation! and the Holy Spirit of truth.
 

oldhermit

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#66
How do you know the reality of God? By what is made! In creation! and the Holy Spirit of truth.
Because of what scripture tells me about the reality of God. In other words, "this I know because the Bible tells me so."
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#67
Every symbol, picture, or icon that enters your mind must be converted into lexical form or the symbol cannot be understood. When Joseph sees this batch of symbols in his dream his lexical index automatically says, this is me and my brothers - field - wheat sheaves. In other words the symbols in this dream have immediate context because he is able to link these symbols to language. Had he not known what wheat was or what a sheave of wheat looked like he could have had no point of reference to understand what he saw. Even though he comprehends all of the symbols within the dream he does not yet understand the meaning of the dream itself because this information was offered as part of the dream. That remained unrevealed information.
what? Im not sure you have a real biblical position in your logic here? First im not sure exactly what your saying and sure don't see a related biblical point? So i give up! God Bless :)
 

oldhermit

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#68
Well its your thread, If what your saying is so complex, normal people cant understand it...do you really think its a concept or precept of God?
This cannot be that complex or I could not understand it. If I can grasp it anyone can.
 

oldhermit

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#69
what? Im not sure you have a real biblical position in your logic here? First im not sure exactly what your saying and sure don't see a related biblical point? So i give up! God Bless :)
If you think this is such a far fetched idea then describe to me one thought that comes to your mind that you cannot convert into linguistic form.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#70
Because of what scripture tells me about the reality of God. In other words, "this I know because the Bible tells me so."
No the bible itself tells you that creation is a witness of the Creator and its the Holy Spirit that teaches us about God...of Course the Word is written by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirits.

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

oldhermit

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#71
No the bible itself tells you that creation is a witness of the Creator and its the Holy Spirit that teaches us about God...of Course the Word is written by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirits.

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
How do you know that? Because the Bible told you that.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#72
This cannot be that complex or I could not understand it. If I can grasp it anyone can.
No to be honest you seem to have a intellect above average...I like that but we must be careful to speak in ways that help others with our wisdom...right?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#73
How do you know that? Because the Bible told you that.
No before I ever believed the bible I could see a Creator in creation and until I received the Holy Spirit the Word of God was not truth to me...The Holy Spirit made the Word of God real to me.
 

oldhermit

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#74
No to be honest you seem to have a intellect above average...I like that but we must be careful to speak in ways that help others with our wisdom...right?
Nonsense. I am no smarter than you or anyone else. The things I am explaining are not far reaching of complicated. This is simply the fact of how the mind works to process information.
 

oldhermit

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#75
No before I ever believed the bible I could see a Creator in creation and until I received the Holy Spirit the Word of God was not truth to me...The Holy Spirit made the Word of God real to me.
I certainly agree with this. I just wanted you to say it. What does the Bible say about what the heavens convey? The ideas that creation conveys are translated into a batch of symbols that we call words (that's all a word is. It is a symbol that represents an object or an idea). The idea conveyed by the heavens is represented by a particular set of words/symbols such as - God, wisdom, power, creator, etc.... Without the capacity to link language to the information you would have absolutely no idea what message was being declared by creation. Your mind does this automatically. You cannot prevent it.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#76
I certainly agree with this. I just wanted you to say it. What does the Bible say about what the heavens convey? The ideas that creation conveys are translated into a batch of symbols that we call words (that all a word is. It is a symbol that represents an object or an idea). The idea conveyed by the heavens is represented by a particular set of words/symbols such as - God, wisdom, power, creator, etc.... Without the capacity to link language to the information you would have absolutely no idea what message was being declared by creation. Your mind does this automatically. You cannot prevent it.
You may have a point that our minds are trained that way and it was no doubt Gods intention.. but I believe the thought process goes beyond just words..we have emotions and other chemical type things going on in the mind..
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
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#77
You may have a point that our minds are trained that way and it was no doubt Gods intention.. but I believe the thought process goes beyond just words..we have emotions and other chemical type things going on in the mind..
Our minds are not trained this way, they are created to function in this way. It is impossible for your thought process to exceed your command of language. It is impossible for you to convey a thought that you do not have the vocabulary to describe. Do not confuse the mind with the brain. Contrary to leading scientific opinion, these are not the same thing. Chemical process take place in the brain, not in the mind.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#78
Our minds are not trained this way, they are created to function in this way. It is impossible for your thought process to exceed you command of language. It is impossible for you to convey a thought that you do not have the vocabulary to describe. Do not confuse the mind with the brain. Contrary to leading scientific opinion, these are not the same thing. Chemical process take place in the brain, not in the mind.
Look I willing to listen about your thoughts on this issue, I think its interesting ...but I don't see you as an expert on the mind and brain...I have some knowledge of those issues and have several books that I have studied that would refute what your saying , written by folks who have knowledge of the science of the brain and its connection to the heart to form the mind.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#79
Look I willing to listen about your thoughts on this issue, I think its interesting ...but I don't see you as an expert on the mind and brain...I have some knowledge of those issues and have several books that I have studied that would refute what your saying , written by folks who have knowledge of the science of the brain and its connection to the heart to form the mind.
So how does all of this collective information of the nine fields of inquiry stack up against what scripture says about how man was created. Are these the same group of intellectuals who give is things like evolutionary theory and Freudian logic. I have probably read many of those books myself. I really do not care what the collective of socially engineered knowledge has to say about scripture but I am quite interested in what scripture has to say about the accumulated knowledge of the nine fields of inquiry.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#80
So how does all of this collective information of the nine fields of inquiry stack up against what scripture says about how man was created. Are these the same group of intellectuals who give is things like evolutionary theory and Freudian logic. I have probably read many of those books myself. I really do not care what the collective of socially engineered knowledge has to say about scripture but I am quite interested in what scripture has to say about the accumulated knowledge of the nine fields of inquiry.
Actually no ...these are Christian Neuroscientist that have actually studied the healing aspects of the Word of God on the physical brain and balance it brings to the whole mind and body.