that Great City Babylon

[PlainWord]

I am going to attempt to interpret the below passage from Revelation 13, 17 and its companion passage in Daniel 7. I am NOT changing the words of the Bible or altering them so please no one accuse me of adding or subtracting from the Word. The changes below are in blue. This is my private interpretation which is at least hopefully, partially correct.

Revelation 13:

1 And I stood upon the edge of Satan's Domain, and saw a terrifying kingdom rise up out of Satan's Domain, comprised of seven nations and ten kings, and upon his kings are royal (jeweled) turbans, and upon his nations the name of Allah.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the kingdom which I saw was from the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran: and Allah (Satan's false God) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I saw one of his nations (possibly Iraq or future destroyed Syria/Damascus) as it were utterly destroyed; and this nation returned from destruction: and all the world was shocked and awed by the terrifying kingdom.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they worshipped Allah (Satan's false God) which gave power unto the terrifying kingdom: and they served the terrifying kingdom, saying, Who is like unto the terrifying kingdom? who is able to make war with the terrifying kingdom?

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there was given unto the terrifying kingdom a voice/unified leader speaking great threats and blasphemies; and power was given unto the him to act forty and two months.

Daniel 7:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]After this I saw in my dreams, and behold a fourth kingdom, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was different from all the kingdoms that were before it; and it had ten kings.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]I considered the kings, and, behold, there came up among them another little king, before whom there were three of the first kings replaced: and, behold, in this king were eyes like the eyes of man, and a voice speaking great threats and blasphemies.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]I beheld till the thrones were destroyed, and the GOD of OLD did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Revelation 17:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the angel said unto me, Why were you in shock and awe? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the terrifying kingdom that carrieth her, which hath the seven nations and ten kings.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]The kingdom that thou sawest was here before, and went away; and shall rise again out of the earth in chaos, and go into final damnation/hell: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the terrifying kingdom that was here before, left, and returned.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven kingdoms, on which the woman sitteth.

Now, if I am right, who is this??? Hint, it isn't the top prostitute on earth. God probably has issues with many of the false doctrines and religions on earth but only one attempts to replace Him with a mirror, copy cat with a replacement for Him and His Son.


babylon the great
the mother of prostitutes
and of the abominations of the earth.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Dear Brother in Christ,

I'm not sure where you live but I assume you are in that part of the world where there is a great deal of Islamic influence? Be careful my friend. Right now the radical movement is relatively small but ISIS or ISIL is growing fast and I truly believe they are the start of the entire Islamic world going fanatical against Christians and Jews.

You probably don't own the Interlinear Bible or Strong's Concordance so let me show you the original Greek. The original translators of the King James Bible from the 1600s did not have our events and prospective to help them so they make an occasional mistake. I will show you the proof. The original translation used PALE GREEN, as you will see from the first image, but the original Greek word is 5515 CHLOROS which is used correctly as just GREEN in other places in Revelation as you will see.

View attachment 90943

View attachment 90944

View attachment 90945

Sorry brother,

But your claim proves nothing. Widely known greek word Dox means teaching, doctrine. But also it means Glory (= Doxa Patri kai Io kai Agios Pneumati).
Are you proffessor in old Greek??
If not why you suppose yourself smarter than translators of holy scripturs???? (who knew the language perfectly, and who took the fit word).

Death is not of Green, but for sure of Pale color.
The translation (looking to context) is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!

ISIS and islam is nothing, in comparance with troubles which is to come after collapse of scientific worldview.
But still there are no yet public wonders and suprnatural deed everywhere.

And hade is not upon earth now.

All the predicted troubles will come later.
(First of all a witness of Lord will brought his plagues upon humans).

And now we continue to live in word reigned by scientific worldview - the true global false religion of modern times.

 

[PlainWord]

Sorry brother,

But your claim proves nothing. Widely known greek word Dox means teaching, doctrine. But also it means Glory (= Doxa Patri kai Io kai Agios Pneumati).
Are you proffessor in old Greek??
If not why you suppose yourself smarter than translators of holy scripturs???? (who knew the language perfectly, and who took the fit word).

Death is not of Green, but for sure of Pale color.
The translation (looking to context) is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!

ISIS and islam is nothing, in comparance with troubles which is to come after collapse of scientific worldview.
But still there are no yet public wonders and suprnatural deed everywhere.

And hade is not upon earth now.

All the predicted troubles will come later.
(First of all a witness of Lord will brought his plagues upon humans).

And now we continue to live in word reigned by scientific worldview - the true global false religion of modern times.

As I showed you dear Brother, the original translators used PALE GREEN and not just Pale. I also showed you that the Greek word used by John was CHLOROS. So you have two choices, John meant a PALE GREEN horse or a GREEN horse. CHLOROS is NEVER translated just PALE. The original translators could not perceive of a green colored horse so they went with PALE GREEN. They missed the symbolism and the fact that John was not talking about literal colored horses. Later versions of the KJV dropped the word GREEN, but it was there initially as I showed you.

The same exact Greek word, CHLOROS as used in Rev 6:8 is also used in Rev 8:7:

...and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green (CHLOROS) grass was burnt up.

and Rev 9:4:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green (CHLOROS) thing...

So you tell me why would the translators used GREEN twice to translate the Greek word CHLOROS in the above two passages of Revelation but used PALE the other time in Rev 6:8?? There is only one answer, a GREEN horse made no sense to them. I am not a professor of Greek but I know how to read. You chose to ignore the proof I have shown you, that is your perogative.

I agree, ISIS is nothing yet but they are growing rapidly and now control land masses the size of Great Brittan. The world is doing nothing to stop ISIS just as the world did nothing to stop Adolph Hitler until Nazi Germany forced the whole world into war. History is repeating itself. I show later that both Daniel and John teach that the Final Beast Kingdom, the terrible Kingdom originates from the same area as the original Babylon. We are taught, if you can correctly interpret the symbols, that this kingdom comes from Iran, Iraq and Syria. This is the precise area where ISIS originates. This doesn't mean ISIS is the final kingdom, but it could morph into it.

ISIS is making bold threats and statements that they will raise the flag of ISLAM in Washington DC and in New York City. That is their goal and intention. Right now America has a very weak President who may be Islamic himself. It is too early to tell if ISIS will be able to achieve world dominance but I tell you, no nation is standing in her way right now. ISIS will continue to kill moderate Muslims who will not support them. They are already killing Christians who they find who will not convert and they are far more radical then their predessor Al Qaeda.

I agree many of the predicted troubles are in the future but don't make the mistake of thinking all the seals, trumpets and bowls are literally. They are not. They are spiritual. But this is a much longer topic...

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Are you ethnik Greek???? Do you speak modern Greek??? Where had you got degree in Old Greek???


Al the conclusions you made, is just attepts to find something in support of your own theory.
While translators of bible, speak perfectly by the language they translated, and the did absolutely correct translation (apart from any theories).

 

[PlainWord]

Are you ethnik Greek???? Do you speak modern Greek??? Where had you got degree in Old Greek???


Al the conclusions you made, is just attepts to find something in support of your own theory.
While translators of bible, speak perfectly by the language they translated, and the did absolutely correct translation (apart from any theories).

Can you not see this? This isn't my writing. This is the original translation from 1610 taken from the original manuscripts. The original translation used PALE GREEN. It is right here in the below. Later versions took the word GREEN out.



Satan does not want people to understand the identity of his BEAST empire. It is Islam. You can ignore this if you want.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Can you not see this? This isn't my writing. This is the original translation from 1610 taken from the original manuscripts. The original translation used PALE GREEN. It is right here in the below. Later versions took the word GREEN out.

View attachment 90979

Satan does not want people to understand the identity of his BEAST empire. It is Islam. You can ignore this if you want.

First who can prove that the manuscript you reffer is original???

Second where is your degree to be an expert in this area????


All the translators of that particular book were under oath of saint John. = For any mistake each of them was been at risk to be striken by the plagues.

Are you dare to bear the plague (explaned in the Revelation) if you are wrong in your claim???


But even if you are dare to take such responsibility, I will surely trust to work of people who lived two thousands years ago and who spoke old Greek naturally.


Sorry, all you reffer to prove nothing, but your own exessive self-confidence.

 

[PlainWord]

First who can prove that the manuscript you reffer is original???

Second where is your degree to be an expert in this area????


All the translators of that particular book were under oath of saint John. = For any mistake each of them was been at risk to be striken by the plagues.

Are you dare to bear the plague (explaned in the Revelation) if you are wrong in your claim???


But even if you are dare to take such responsibility, I will surely trust to work of people who lived two thousands years ago and who spoke old Greek naturally.


Sorry, all you reffer to prove nothing, but your own exessive self-confidence.

I don't mean to offend dear Brother, but we seem to be having a communication problem. First, the Greek word used was CHLOROS. There is no debate from any Bible scholar that John used the word CHLOROS. This word means Green, Pale Green. This is what the scholars of Greek tell us. This is not my interpretation, it is theirs. I am not the expert. I only cite how the experts translated the word originally. Study it for yourself if you want. You don't have to take my word for it. John said CHLOROS horse, end of story.

As for interpreting, I am not adding nor subtracting from the Book, thus I am not at risk to share in the plagues because of this. Here is the passage I assume you are referring to???

Rev 22:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I am neither adding to or subtracting from the words. I am only suggesting what my belief is of their meaning. We are all permitted to suggest something we believe and I made clear from the beginning that I am only sharing my ideas. You are sharing your ideas by rejecting my ideas. Therefore you have your own views and your own interpretations. I stated that we may be at the beginning of the 4th seal, you claim we are not. So if we are and you are incorrect, by your own words, you have just uttered a falsehood which is exactly what you accused me of doing. Just pointing that out.

Okay we have taken this topic far enough. Let's drop it. You will continue in your thoughts as will I. I'm sorry you did not appreciate my views. You are free to consider Islam as a safe religion who means no harm to you or your Christian way. I pray you don't find out the hard way the error of such thinking.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

I don't mean to offend dear Brother, but we seem to be having a communication problem. First, the Greek word used was CHLOROS. There is no debate from any Bible scholar that John used the word CHLOROS. This word means Green, Pale Green. This is what the scholars of Greek tell us. This is not my interpretation, it is theirs. I am not the expert. I only cite how the experts translated the word originally. Study it for yourself if you want. You don't have to take my word for it. John said CHLOROS horse, end of story.

As for interpreting, I am not adding nor subtracting from the Book, thus I am not at risk to share in the plagues because of this. Here is the passage I assume you are referring to???

Rev 22:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I am neither adding to or subtracting from the words. I am only suggesting what my belief is of their meaning. We are all permitted to suggest something we believe and I made clear from the beginning that I am only sharing my ideas. You are sharing your ideas by rejecting my ideas. Therefore you have your own views and your own interpretations. I stated that we may be at the beginning of the 4th seal, you claim we are not. So if we are and you are incorrect, by your own words, you have just uttered a falsehood which is exactly what you accused me of doing. Just pointing that out.

Okay we have taken this topic far enough. Let's drop it. You will continue in your thoughts as will I. I'm sorry you did not appreciate my views. You are free to consider Islam as a safe religion who means no harm to you or your Christian way. I pray you don't find out the hard way the error of such thinking.

Nothing like miscommunications, though my english is not perfect.


There are existing recognizing Scriptural text of the Book of Revelation. And also exist verbal tradition which explain in details who will be antichrist.


And also exist a brother who like to preach his own theory of islamic origin of the false christ and false prophet.
In support to your (recently invented) theory you claim mistake in the translation of the original text.

Read carfully how the author of the book swear whosoever from changing the original context of the Revelation.
And pleace notice, that you yourself use the purely islamic method of promotion of new theories.
Fake prophet Mohhamad proclaimed himself to be a messanger of same God, Who sent Moses and Jesus.
And all the differences between christian Scriptures and own doctrin Mohhamed explaned reffering to mistakes and distortions as would made by authors of the New Testaments.

 

[dcontroversal]

Pale is not a color. However, pale was in fact used to describe green in the time that John wrote Revelation. So, what he is saying is true.

No doubt...If I remember right the Greek word is chloros-->greenish, verdant, dun-colored, green

 

[PlainWord]

Hey Markum,

I think we have similar thoughts. But we have a few minor differences.

BEAST = KINGDOM = (Nation or Political Power)
HORN = LEADER = (King or Ruler)
KING = KING. KING does not = BEAST or KINGDOM

[SUP]8 [/SUP]when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is...

I think this means that the BEAST KINGDOM was on earth before as a Super Power, it went away (lost power) but will come back. I think we both agree given the location mentioned in Dan 7 and Rev 13 that this BEAST is from the region of former Babylon (Syria, Iran & Iraq). This BEAST will be made up of 7 Nations and 10 Kings/Rulers.

...And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life...

Only the wicked/unbeliever/sinner will marvel/adore this BEAST. To me, this means Muslim/Islamic extremists at a minimum or all Muslims potentially if they are not saved are the ones who marvel.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.

In John's day, these 10 kings did not exist. But they will exist, will be given their "kingdom" to give over to the unified BEAST kingdom when the time comes. They may exist today. Here's the part that is confusing and requires wisdom as the text states:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. [SUP]10 [/SUP]There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

Verse 9 and 11 go together, verse 10 is related but separate. If you read verse 9 and 11 together then go back and read 10 you will see 9 and 11 are discussing the BEAST or KINGDOM, but verse 10 is discussing KINGS, past, present and future who most likely have harmed God's people. This is a very important distinction. Let's put these passages in an order that makes it clearer to understand.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.

The BEAST'S KINGDOM is the 8th KINGDOM, not the 8th KING. Let's not confuse this. The "WOMAN" sits on 7 Kingdoms (present kingdoms). Then along comes an 8th KINGDOM which will be part of and in allegiance with the 7 Nations. This implies to me that this 8th Kingdom is not a nation like the other 7 but is arranged differently. ISIS would be a perfect fit if it merges with or conquers 7 nations or otherwise makes an allegiance with 7 nations. There is an historic element to all of this. The Beast (KINGDOM) was, was not, but will be again. But don't confuse this with the KINGS.

Now let's discuss verse 10.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.

The 5 kings are people, not NATIONS; 5 were in the past, 1 present to John, and one future to John. There are NOT 8 Kings, there are only 7 kings. 6 are in the past to us and one is future to John, not necessarily future to us. Nothing tells us that the future king will rule over the 8th BEAST KINGDOM; he may, but the text does not specifically say that. There is only one "KING" since John wrote Revelation who stands out as top persecutor of Jews and that is Adolph Hitler. If the 7th King was HITLER, than we can forget about the kings and focus on the KINGDOMS.

It is the 8th BEAST or KINGDOM that continues a short time. KINGS by definition always continue a short time (they are human), relatively speaking. We already established where the 8th kingdom will be from. So, this rules out the USA as being the 8th Kingdom. The 8 Kingdoms making up the BEAST are contemporary. Daniel only mentions 4 Kingdoms, NOT 7 or 8. The 4th Kingdom will be more terrible and different than the other 3. A kingdom based on religion would be different from the previous 3 nation/state kingdoms. An evil spiritual kingdom made up of 7 nations and 1 separate entity seems to be the description of the final BEAST KINGDOM of SATAN.

The 4th Seal suggests ISLAM, Rev 13 suggests ISLAM. It is safe to bet Rev 17 is speaking of an ISLAMIC alliance. So, who is the WOMAN who rides this BEAST??? Who is BABYLON the Great, MOTHER of all HARLOTS?? Can it be said that the USA "rides" the Beast? Maybe. We purchase her oil as do the kings of the earth. But it seems to me that since harlotry often is associated with idolatry or false worship that ISLAM is the WOMAN. But does this final BEAST hate ISLAM? Not so much. They embrace it but alter it so I'm not 100% on this yet.

 

[PlainWord]

No doubt...If I remember right the Greek word is chloros-->greenish, verdant, dun-colored, green

CHLOROS is GREEN or PALE GREEN. It is NEVER just pale. I think our friend GHM is having a hard time understanding that John wrote in Greek. The word John used was Greek CHLOROS. The question then becomes what did the translators of the King James Bible do in the year 1611, more than 1,500 years after John wrote Revelation. They translated the word CHLOROS three times in the Book of Revelation. Twice they translated it just GREEN and once PALE GREEN.

Later the KJV went through a serious of revisions. The revision we have today dropped the word GREEN in Rev 6 and they just went with PALE. This is the point I am trying to make to our friend. But he is missing it.

 

[dcontroversal]

CHLOROS is GREEN or PALE GREEN. It is NEVER just pale. I think our friend GHM is having a hard time understanding that John wrote in Greek. The word John used was Greek CHLOROS. The question then becomes what did the translators of the King James Bible do in the year 1611, more than 1,500 years after John wrote Revelation. They translated the word CHLOROS three times in the Book of Revelation. Twice they translated it just GREEN and once PALE GREEN.

Later the KJV went through a serious of revisions. The revision we have today dropped the word GREEN in Rev 6 and they just went with PALE. This is the point I am trying to make to our friend. But he is missing it.

No doubt....you know I have heard a deacon and a preacher once say that Paul and Jesus taught out of the King James and if the King James was good enough for Paul it is good enough for me.....can you imagine the absurdity of that...The N.T. was written in Koine Greek and not English...Why not study it from the Greek to get a more complete understanding which makes sense to me.....!

 

[PlainWord]

It is the 8th BEAST or KINGDOM that continues a short time. KINGS by definition always continue a short time (they are human), relatively speaking.

I mis spoke with this. The 7th King must continue a short time. Kings continue a short time. Kingdoms usually last longer than Kings. Hitler continued a short time. If the 7th king was not Hitler and is future, than this King will continue a short time.

 

[PlainWord]

No doubt....you know I have heard a deacon and a preacher once say that Paul and Jesus taught out of the King James and if the King James was good enough for Paul it is good enough for me.....can you imagine the absurdity of that...The N.T. was written in Koine Greek and not English...Why not study it from the Greek to get a more complete understanding which makes sense to me.....!

Exactly!!! There have been many translations of the Bible. Some of the more recent ones weren't even done by Christians, they were done by non-believing Scholars and language experts. When you have a book loaded with symbolism and you don't understand Christian symbols, doctrine, or importance of Biblical numbers, you can easily run into problems.

I widely consider the KJV translation as the purest although I read the NKJV more often because it reads easier. But our friend forgets that while the Bible as given to the authors was perfect and inspired by God, the translations into English and other languages were not divinely inspired and were not perfect; they were translated by men who did their best but they are and were imperfect. Thus any Bible translated from the original can and do have slight errors. This is one example. There are others.

 

[PlainWord]

First who can prove that the manuscript you reffer is original???

Second where is your degree to be an expert in this area????


All the translators of that particular book were under oath of saint John. = For any mistake each of them was been at risk to be striken by the plagues.

Are you dare to bear the plague (explaned in the Revelation) if you are wrong in your claim???


But even if you are dare to take such responsibility, I will surely trust to work of people who lived two thousands years ago and who spoke old Greek naturally.


Sorry, all you reffer to prove nothing, but your own exessive self-confidence.

Please watch this Youtube video and there will be no doubt left in your mind who the Beast is and who the Harlot is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ#t=418

BEAST is restored OTTOMAN EMPIRE made up of a group of nations and 10 kings, AKA THE KING OF THE NORTH

WOMAN or MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS is MECCA and Saudi Arabia

 

[Markum1972]

Please watch this Youtube video and there will be no doubt left in your mind who the Beast is and who the Harlot is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ#t=418

BEAST is restored OTTOMAN EMPIRE made up of a group of nations and 10 kings, AKA THE KING OF THE NORTH

WOMAN or MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS is MECCA and Saudi Arabia

Hey Plain and dcontroversal,
I had kind of a comic book type of vision play out in my head the other day. It made me laugh and at the same time, it made me shake my head. It was interesting and have been meaning to share it with you.

It was this...

Daniel comes and tells the people not to bow down and worship any other than God Almighty.
The people look at him, look back at Nebs image, look at each other and then continue worshiping the image.
So Daniel shakes his head and walks away. Just then a stone falls from the sky at the feet of Nebs image and it is destroyed.
Daniel looks and thinks to himself, "Ha... that will show them."
The people look sadly at the fallen image, then look at the stone that fell at its feet that destroyed it. They then look around at each other, back at the stone, and back at each other as if they had an "Aha" moment at which point they all turn towards the stone and begin worshiping it.
Daniel looks in astonishment, shakes his head, and walks away.

I saw this as a comic strip and it struck me a bit funny. And then, I wondered about the origin of the black stone and what could have taken place that caused people to begin worshiping it. I think you can see what I am getting at. Maybe no way to know for sure, but I found it an interesting possibility. It would account for the worship of the same image as the first beast as written in scripture if the black stone was in fact the same stone.

 

[Markum1972]

On second thought, I remembered this from the scriptures just now...

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

So based on that, I am pretty convinced that it is one and the same. Thoughts?

 

[JesusLives]

My understanding of the stone that smote the statue is God's Kingdom that fills the whole earth after the destruction of all the earthly kingdoms which were represented by the different metals.

Gold = Babylon
Silver = Medes & Persia
Bronze = Greece
Iron = Rome
Iron/Clay = 10 European countries

Stone destroys statue = Jesus Return and sets up His kingdom fills the whole world.

 

[Markum1972]

My understanding of the stone that smote the statue is God's Kingdom that fills the whole earth after the destruction of all the earthly kingdoms which were represented by the different metals.

Gold = Babylon
Silver = Medes & Persia
Bronze = Greece
Iron = Rome
Iron/Clay = 10 European countries

Stone destroys statue = Jesus Return and sets up His kingdom fills the whole world.

That is an interesting thought since Jesus is the "corner stone". I had thought about this as well. The thing that made me think otherwise was because God's kingdom is not fully established until Christ's return.

This could be one of those that fits both occasions. I have noted that most of Satan's work is a mockery and therefore has a likeness to God's... but a forgery or counterfeit.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Please watch this Youtube video and there will be no doubt left in your mind who the Beast is and who the Harlot is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY20IFaWlsQ#t=418

BEAST is restored OTTOMAN EMPIRE made up of a group of nations and 10 kings, AKA THE KING OF THE NORTH

WOMAN or MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS is MECCA and Saudi Arabia

Apart from any videos Great Harlot is one of the churches (falled one) and the New Babylon is a capital of Greatest country where also resided the historical church.

You, protestants, do not know it (and argue over the matter) only because you not member of church and verbal tradition (the primer source of christian knowledge) is nothing to you.

Go ahead with new theories about that. But real christians now (and knew) since apostolic times.