The Bible Has Been Translated Too Many Times to be Trusted?
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I view the written text as a primer for my flesh. The physical writing is meant for this body to come in line with what the spirit understands. Our brain is where soul\spirit and body meet. God at one time gave me instant knowledge as if it were a 10gig download within in a second. It took my body\brain 15mins to put it into words in order to communicate it to others. If that makes sense.
One of my favorite loves in this walk is on those occasions when I have been blessed to share the gospel with one or more strangers. When they are "given" to show interest, the room becomes still, and I feel the presence of God and the joy of the gospel while sharing. This is not exclusive to any one child of God, nope, all experience this when sharing the Word, but many are not yet aware it is the Holy Spirit's presence supporting and guiding as we share. No, nothing earth shattering occurs, but the seed is planted. Oh how I would love to see some of those folks today, because I know Jesus Christ nurtured that seed, and it has grown in all. Praise God, amen. God bless all in Jesus Christ, for you do the same always, whether you were aware of it then or not, you are now.
Illiterate means you cannot comprehend the meaning of the symbols. We are Illiterate in the cuneiform language. We cannot comprehend it nor write it in a way that would be comprehended by those who are literate in the language.
Your definition does not appear to match everyone else's definition.?????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_illiteracy
an illiterate person may not understand the written words cat or dog, may not recognize the letters of the alphabet, and may be unable to write their own name.
Your definition does not appear to match everyone else's definition.?????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_illiteracy
an illiterate person may not understand the written words cat or dog, may not recognize the letters of the alphabet, and may be unable to write their own name.
I'm curious how you arrive at 4,000 "grammatical errors" in the NT. What NT mss or textual apparatus' are you comparing? Do you know what textual criticism is, what it involves, and how it works?
In reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls, what are you using as the standard? How do you know the copyists of the Dead Sea Scrolls didn't make errors?
Are you aware that in virtually all hand copied documents throughout history that there never any two that agree entirely?
In reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls, what are you using as the standard? How do you know the copyists of the Dead Sea Scrolls didn't make errors?
Are you aware that in virtually all hand copied documents throughout history that there never any two that agree entirely?
Greek and Hebrew scholars have placed the number at 4000 errors, but the majority are relativity harmless. There are a handful which do cause issues with translation.
The dead sea scrolls have fictional books as well as scripture. The text are less tampered with because they were copied by educated Jewish Priests who were fearful to tamper with the text.
Of course there are going to be inconsistencies.
The dead sea scrolls have fictional books as well as scripture. The text are less tampered with because they were copied by educated Jewish Priests who were fearful to tamper with the text.
Of course there are going to be inconsistencies.
One day we will meet them and we will fully know how the little seeds became a spreading tree! I have that same experience in talking to others when the Lord takes over and brings things to mind for me to say.
It makes me chuckle because I know that my fleshly memory is not the kind of memory that stores references and details and can bring them up at will...so I know it isn't me when it happens. Likewise I know that in myself I have no understanding that is of spiritual significance, but God through the Holy Spirit is ready to give me that understanding as I read, even when there are oddnesses in translation.
Once I had passed through a bad experience and was asking the Lord what was going on. I bumped into a lady in the park who I vaguely knew, and we began to talk. I felt compelled to tell her of my experience and at the end of it, with some courage, asked...has this happened to you? It was like those scary words were in my mouth ready and I hadn't planned them, but since they were there I had to say them lol.
Her mouth fell open and she said "how did you know?". Then she began to tell me all about it, and how she had been going into open country churches to read the big bible and thought she was going mad because the words on the pages seemed to speak to her personally. I was able to tell her that this is normal when God is communicating with us and that it happens to me. There are so many lovely things in what was happening here, that Jesus wanted to show her He saw, He heard, He knew...all the travail of her heart...and that He loved her enough to send her someone who could identify with an experience very hard to put into words. Her love of the Lord is so sweet and unspoiled and it was so wonderful to be involved with Him in the process of comfort.
It makes me chuckle because I know that my fleshly memory is not the kind of memory that stores references and details and can bring them up at will...so I know it isn't me when it happens. Likewise I know that in myself I have no understanding that is of spiritual significance, but God through the Holy Spirit is ready to give me that understanding as I read, even when there are oddnesses in translation.
Once I had passed through a bad experience and was asking the Lord what was going on. I bumped into a lady in the park who I vaguely knew, and we began to talk. I felt compelled to tell her of my experience and at the end of it, with some courage, asked...has this happened to you? It was like those scary words were in my mouth ready and I hadn't planned them, but since they were there I had to say them lol.
Her mouth fell open and she said "how did you know?". Then she began to tell me all about it, and how she had been going into open country churches to read the big bible and thought she was going mad because the words on the pages seemed to speak to her personally. I was able to tell her that this is normal when God is communicating with us and that it happens to me. There are so many lovely things in what was happening here, that Jesus wanted to show her He saw, He heard, He knew...all the travail of her heart...and that He loved her enough to send her someone who could identify with an experience very hard to put into words. Her love of the Lord is so sweet and unspoiled and it was so wonderful to be involved with Him in the process of comfort.
Yeah I was just thinking about spiritual illiteracy....I remember once being bashed by church elders because I was going down town and speaking with homeless people. They told me it was a bad idea to hang out with those drunk and drug addicted people because God says we must avoid all appearance of evil. The cutting nature of that reproof needed further examination....
First off the pharisees were more concerned with how things looked to others than with how things actually were...hence the whitewashed sepulchres statement...but I knew also there was something wrong with that word "appearance" in the King James verse that was being used here to promote a bad doctrine. That was when I bought my Greek interlinear.
When I found the appropriate Bible verse in Greek, to my surprise it said "avoid all FORMS of evil" which made total sense. It meant to me personally that if my heart is pure before the Lord in anything I am doing, then all is well, and no one can tell me not to do it. It also showed that to misinterpret the meaning of "avoid all appearance of evil" in the wrong way was to suggest that, so long as things look clean, regardless of whether they ARE clean, that is what we are supposed to be doing.
How dangerous is that?!!
Next I was comforted to read how Jesus was maligned and falsely accused for spending time with sinners of all kinds as follows:
Matt 11: 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.
But wisdom is justified of her children.
Praise the Lord!
First off the pharisees were more concerned with how things looked to others than with how things actually were...hence the whitewashed sepulchres statement...but I knew also there was something wrong with that word "appearance" in the King James verse that was being used here to promote a bad doctrine. That was when I bought my Greek interlinear.
When I found the appropriate Bible verse in Greek, to my surprise it said "avoid all FORMS of evil" which made total sense. It meant to me personally that if my heart is pure before the Lord in anything I am doing, then all is well, and no one can tell me not to do it. It also showed that to misinterpret the meaning of "avoid all appearance of evil" in the wrong way was to suggest that, so long as things look clean, regardless of whether they ARE clean, that is what we are supposed to be doing.
How dangerous is that?!!
Next I was comforted to read how Jesus was maligned and falsely accused for spending time with sinners of all kinds as follows:
Matt 11: 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.
But wisdom is justified of her children.
Praise the Lord!
(1) There are differences in the two Isaiah's.
(2) This doesn't address issues in the copying of other books of the OT. Compare Jeremiah and Samuel in the DSS to your OT and what you discover is that in many instances, the OT of the DSS more closely resembles the OT of the LXX which differs from the OT that you're probably most familiar with.
What does this have to do with textual criticism?
The Sanhedrin were copyists? Copyists of the NT?
What you mean is that there are a total of about 4000 grammatical errors across the various manuscripts of the NT, not that there are 4000 grammatical errors in the NT itself.
I'm still curious as to how you know that the copyists were illiterate.
What's your source for this information?
Can you provide examples of what you think the Holy Spirit had told you regarding issues in the translation and transmission of the NT?
HHhhmmmm! Being illiterate in the scripture means it can't be understood\comprehended nor communicated. Well that explains a lot about what is happening on this forum. The people here are also illiterate about the Holy Spirit, they cannot comprehend it nor communicate it to others. We are speaking to the illiterate in multiple dimensions who can't understand our speech nor concepts behind the speech.
The premise is ridiculous! Suppose I find a document in French which proclaims: Deux plus deux sont quatre.
I promptly translate: Two plus two equal four. Later someone else writes: two plus two equal three plus one.
Another person finds the same document and writes two plus two equal negative five plus nine; while another writes two plus two equal seventeen minus thirteen. over the course of several months four hundred translators find six hundred ways to say two plus two equal four. My translation is the most precise literal translation; but all the other translations are equally accurate.
Similarly the Bible has been translated into English in a great many ways; but all the translations that have been approached honestly say essentially the same thing even though they say it differently.
I promptly translate: Two plus two equal four. Later someone else writes: two plus two equal three plus one.
Another person finds the same document and writes two plus two equal negative five plus nine; while another writes two plus two equal seventeen minus thirteen. over the course of several months four hundred translators find six hundred ways to say two plus two equal four. My translation is the most precise literal translation; but all the other translations are equally accurate.
Similarly the Bible has been translated into English in a great many ways; but all the translations that have been approached honestly say essentially the same thing even though they say it differently.
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LOL I guess so 
. 1 Cor 2 agrees, in that we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery which cannot be known by the world. The natural man receiveth not the things of God for they are FOOLISHNESS to him. As you said, it explains a lot.
It is a desperate situation but it is not as though God has withheld this from anyone, He just has ways of opening the door to them...not by personal assertions or walking about like we know it all....but by faith, and through worshipping God in the Spirit, rejoicing in Christ Jesus, and having no confidence in the flesh....not even the religious flesh.
My heart sings with Jesus in Luke 10:21:
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
PS Russell something wierd has happened to my pms and I can't seem to message you or receive messages...I might have done it accidentally so apologies if so. I am trying to reset but that doesn't seem to be working either...yet
. 1 Cor 2 agrees, in that we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery which cannot be known by the world. The natural man receiveth not the things of God for they are FOOLISHNESS to him. As you said, it explains a lot.It is a desperate situation but it is not as though God has withheld this from anyone, He just has ways of opening the door to them...not by personal assertions or walking about like we know it all....but by faith, and through worshipping God in the Spirit, rejoicing in Christ Jesus, and having no confidence in the flesh....not even the religious flesh.
My heart sings with Jesus in Luke 10:21:
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
PS Russell something wierd has happened to my pms and I can't seem to message you or receive messages...I might have done it accidentally so apologies if so. I am trying to reset but that doesn't seem to be working either...yet
Yes, I know there is a difference between DSS and LXX. Off hand I forget which one is written in Greek and the other Hebrew\Aramaic
There was plenty of time [300yrs] for corruption of the many circulating texts.
As I stated, they kept the integrity of the OT intact.
That I will recheck, but I read they say its the NT period.
Back then and like today in most 3rd world countries the people are illiterate. During the early church most were illiterate. The scholars conjecture that the menial job of copying transcripts would be done by servants of the rich who were copying Paul's letters and the Gospels for the early church.
Prophesier Bart D. Ehrman
I'll try and get some together for discussion sake. I call them inserts and they are identifiable because they don't flow with the context of the rest of the text. Or they contradict the rest of scripture.
one example is:
(Matt 16:24 [AKJV])
Then said Jesus to his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
The concept of,"Take up a cross and follow me", has no relevance to the hearers at that point in time. No body was thinking about crosses as an act of humility. No one was thinking they had to imitate Christ by carrying a cross, which was considered a curse. Jesus equating Himself with a cross and expecting others to do the same would have been nonsensical to the hearer. Jesus making such a charge to others would not have been understood. If it is removed from the text it has no effect. It is most likely an insert by some scribe who was historically understanding the humility in Christ's death on the cross. So I don't consider it part of the scripture, but merely an addition. There are many more.
There was plenty of time [300yrs] for corruption of the many circulating texts.
As I stated, they kept the integrity of the OT intact.
That I will recheck, but I read they say its the NT period.
Back then and like today in most 3rd world countries the people are illiterate. During the early church most were illiterate. The scholars conjecture that the menial job of copying transcripts would be done by servants of the rich who were copying Paul's letters and the Gospels for the early church.
Prophesier Bart D. Ehrman
I'll try and get some together for discussion sake. I call them inserts and they are identifiable because they don't flow with the context of the rest of the text. Or they contradict the rest of scripture.
one example is:
(Matt 16:24 [AKJV])
Then said Jesus to his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
The concept of,"Take up a cross and follow me", has no relevance to the hearers at that point in time. No body was thinking about crosses as an act of humility. No one was thinking they had to imitate Christ by carrying a cross, which was considered a curse. Jesus equating Himself with a cross and expecting others to do the same would have been nonsensical to the hearer. Jesus making such a charge to others would not have been understood. If it is removed from the text it has no effect. It is most likely an insert by some scribe who was historically understanding the humility in Christ's death on the cross. So I don't consider it part of the scripture, but merely an addition. There are many more.
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HHhhmmmm! Being illiterate in the scripture means it can't be understood\comprehended nor communicated. Well that explains a lot about what is happening on this forum. The people here are also illiterate about the Holy Spirit, they cannot comprehend it nor communicate it to others. We are speaking to the illiterate in multiple dimensions who can't understand our speech nor concepts behind the speech.
=========================================================
rjb.
we are very disappointed in the way that you have 'lumped' 'the people here' into ONE category,
it is very un-kind and narrow-minded,,,
some are partaking of milk and some are partaking of meat, and yes, some don't partake at all,
in Spiritual Food....but, our prayer is that they are being drawn.....
even so, our duty is to minister to all and not put ourselves on a perch/high-seat in the congregation.,,
we walk circumspectly to those who are without, but we are to be kind, tender-hearted to one another -
if I PUSH-AWAY or BE-LITTLE my brother, knowingly or un-knowingly, then my brother
will not HEAR me, hence, I have become a 'teacher of none effect'....
we see 'love-mercy-truth-compassion-forgiveness' throughout all of scripture, these acts of tenderness
are the proof of Christ within us, for His Love is the FirstFruit of our Spiritual Walk....
our primary interest should always be in God's Word and not 'our word'.....if we can establish this,
then He speaks through us for we are His.....
=========================================================
rjb.
we are very disappointed in the way that you have 'lumped' 'the people here' into ONE category,
it is very un-kind and narrow-minded,,,
some are partaking of milk and some are partaking of meat, and yes, some don't partake at all,
in Spiritual Food....but, our prayer is that they are being drawn.....
even so, our duty is to minister to all and not put ourselves on a perch/high-seat in the congregation.,,
we walk circumspectly to those who are without, but we are to be kind, tender-hearted to one another -
if I PUSH-AWAY or BE-LITTLE my brother, knowingly or un-knowingly, then my brother
will not HEAR me, hence, I have become a 'teacher of none effect'....
we see 'love-mercy-truth-compassion-forgiveness' throughout all of scripture, these acts of tenderness
are the proof of Christ within us, for His Love is the FirstFruit of our Spiritual Walk....
our primary interest should always be in God's Word and not 'our word'.....if we can establish this,
then He speaks through us for we are His.....