The Bible is a witness for Christ

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superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#1
Jul 28, 2009
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#1
The bible is a witness that Jesus is the Christ.

John 17: 20 "My prayer is not for them alone. [the apostles]I pray also for those who will believe in me through their [gospel] message, [that would be us]21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

The bible does not prove that Jesus is the Christ. We believe because of the witness of those who experienced his life, death, and resurrection, and reported it to us.

We also have the Spirit of Christ within us. But in order to receive that spirit, we must first experience the witness of God's special revelation to us, found in the Gospel message.

2 Timothy 1: 10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.[message] 11 And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher. 12 That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day. 13 What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

It saddens me deeply, to see many in this forum, in particular, those calling themselves prophets, who trivialize the bible's importance. It is the work of Satan, that those who call themselves Christians, diminish the importance of sound doctrine, and bible study, in the lives of those who would spread the Gospel message, and be a light to the world.

The self proclaimed prophets would tell us that we do not need doctrine, but only to "experience" Christ. What does Paul say? Paul says that a "pattern of sound teaching" in doctrine is important, along with faith and love in Jesus Christ.

They diminish the importance of the bible on one hand, while copying and pasting scripture after scripture on the other. What hypocracy is this? They would have us believe that God did not reveal everything to us in Christ, calling the author of Hebrews 1:1-2 a liar. They would have us believe that they have been appointed to add to Christ's message, or to interpret it for us, denying the power of Holy Spirit within us.

Why do the prophets in here wish to diminish the importance of the bible?

Just as Moses' face shined from being in the presence of God, the Gospel message, as the word of God, shines with it's own light.

The false prophets in here cannot stand in the light of the Gospel, for that light reveals to the world that they speak presumptiously, and do not speak for God. Therefore, they fear that light, for it reveals their deeds to the world.

No prophet of God will trivialize the word of God, for nothing comes to us from God, that is not important and valuable.

One final word. Who is the author of the New Testament?

We know that Holy Spirit inspired the human authors to write the Scriptures. But we know that Holy Spirit only inspired that which was given to Him by, none other than Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus Christ is the ultimate author of the New Testament.

What hypocracy is it to claim, on the one hand, to listen to the Spirit of Christ, and on the other, to deny or trivialize what Christ tells us in the Gospel message.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#2
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#2
hi SuperDave!
have a wonderful day.
thanks for the message.
zone
 
X

XGraveX

Member
#3
Jul 25, 2011
67
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6
#3
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 ¶For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 John 5:1 ¶Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


I am wondering what you mean by

"The bible does not prove that Jesus is the Christ. We believe because of the witness of those who experienced his life, death, and resurrection, and reported it to us"

when the scripture shows otherwise
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#5
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#5
XGraveX said:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 ¶For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 John 5:1 ¶Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


I am wondering what you mean by

"The bible does not prove that Jesus is the Christ. We believe because of the witness of those who experienced his life, death, and resurrection, and reported it to us"

when the scripture shows otherwise
Click to expand...
I see nothing in the scriptures that you have shown to indicate that the bible proves Jesus is the Christ. If that were the case, we would have no need of faith. What need is there of faith for that which is proven?

We must believe that Jesus is the Christ, and in His ability to save us. It would be an oxymoron to think that someone could "disbelieve" what was known "proven" to be true.

When we believe, through the power of Holy Spirit, and accept Christ, we receive His Spirit as further confirmation that our faith is justified. It is the sanctification process, through the power of Holy Spirit, that builds that faith and reassurance in us, as we become more Christlike in our lives.
 
X

XGraveX

Member
#6
Jul 25, 2011
67
0
6
#6
superdave5221 said:
I see nothing in the scriptures that you have shown to indicate that the bible proves Jesus is the Christ. If that were the case, we would have no need of faith. What need is there of faith for that which is proven?

We must believe that Jesus is the Christ, and in His ability to save us. It would be an oxymoron to think that someone could "disbelieve" what was known "proven" to be true.

When we believe, through the power of Holy Spirit, and accept Christ, we receive His Spirit as further confirmation that our faith is justified. It is the sanctification process, through the power of Holy Spirit, that builds that faith and reassurance in us, as we become more Christlike in our lives.
Click to expand...
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 5:1 ¶Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Are the above passages Bible/scripture? What do they say who Jesus is?
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#7
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#7
XGraveX said:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 5:1 ¶Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Are the above passages Bible/scripture? What do they say who Jesus is?
Click to expand...
I am not going to argue the difference between belief and proof. That was not the purpose of this thread.

If the bible "proved" that Jesus was who he said he was, then I would be able to take it to any rational, intelligent, thinking person, and make a believer out of them. Many of us know that this doesn't work.

The bible provides evidence that Jesus was who he said he was. This evidence is in the form of eyewitness testimonies of those who were there. It is up to us to accept this evidence as sufficient for belief. Holy Spirit is influential in this process. However, our abilities to be influenced by Holy Spirit to the point of belief, is influenced by our life experiences, our understanding of the evidence, and the openness of our hearts and minds to hear the voice of Holy Spirit.

Thus it is faith that brings about belief, not overwhelming evidence that proves beyond any doubt.

In order to use the bible to "prove", you would first have to "prove" that the bible is what it says it is. This presents a circular argument which will get you nowhere.

I believe that the bible is the word of God, (and this itself can be based on textual and historical evidence, as well as experiential evidence, especially following regeneration), therefore I believe what it says. But I cannot "prove" it.
 
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