The Catechism vs The Bible
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E
Once again, what we have with this thread of yours bud, is another gross example of your editing to fuel your anti-Catholic agenda. Your not giving yourself much credence doing so. No, it actually shows the lengths of the malefactor tactics you'll stoop too. If you are going to quote from a official Catholic source, do so in it's entirety. Sheesh.... {rolling eyes}
lets take a look at a couple examples of your grossly deceptive editing tactics, shall we!
Your gross edited version:
And then we have the true unedited version:
Paragraph 6. Mary—Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church.
I. Mary’s Motherhood with Regard to the Church:
969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."[SUP]512[/SUP][SUP] ([/SUP][SUP]149[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]501[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]1370[/SUP][SUP])[/SUP]
[SUP]
970:
"Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."
[/SUP][SUP]513[/SUP][SUP] "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."[/SUP]
[SUP]
and just for your alls informatin......
II. Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
[/SUP][SUP]2673-2679[/SUP]
[SUP]
971:[/SUP][SUP]"All generations will call me blessed": "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."( Lk 1:48; Paul VI, MC 56.)The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."
Now if we Catholics are to worship Mary like you say we do, don't you think of all places, the Catechism of the Catholic Church would say so??
Nope.... but it does say..."This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."
And here again we have your gross edited version:
And the true unedited version;
II. ...Born of the Virgin Mary; Paragraph 3:
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."(Lk 1:28–38; cf. Rom 1:5.) Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace
Cf. LG 56.) (
[/SUP][SUP]2617[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]148[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]968[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]726[/SUP][SUP])"[/SUP]
[SUP]
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert... : "The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."
So you can very easily see, what you posted was actually nothing more that a quote from St.Irenaeus. {rolling eyes} And the ironic thing of it is.... this is only two examples of your fallicies that I proved to be grossly edited and misleading!!! One can only conclude the rest of your passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be no differnt. Shall we go through them one by one as well? I'm pretty sure sure you would hope not!
Pax tecum
[/SUP]
lets take a look at a couple examples of your grossly deceptive editing tactics, shall we!
Your gross edited version:
And then we have the true unedited version:
Paragraph 6. Mary—Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church.
I. Mary’s Motherhood with Regard to the Church:
969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."[SUP]512[/SUP][SUP] ([/SUP][SUP]149[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]501[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]1370[/SUP][SUP])[/SUP]
[SUP]
970:
"Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."
[/SUP][SUP]513[/SUP][SUP] "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."[/SUP]
[SUP]
and just for your alls informatin......
II. Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
[/SUP][SUP]2673-2679[/SUP]
[SUP]
971:[/SUP][SUP]"All generations will call me blessed": "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."( Lk 1:48; Paul VI, MC 56.)The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."
Now if we Catholics are to worship Mary like you say we do, don't you think of all places, the Catechism of the Catholic Church would say so??
Nope.... but it does say..."This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."
And here again we have your gross edited version:
And the true unedited version;
II. ...Born of the Virgin Mary; Paragraph 3:
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."(Lk 1:28–38; cf. Rom 1:5.) Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace
Cf. LG 56.) ([/SUP][SUP]2617[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]148[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]968[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]726[/SUP][SUP])"[/SUP]
[SUP]
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert... : "The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."
So you can very easily see, what you posted was actually nothing more that a quote from St.Irenaeus. {rolling eyes} And the ironic thing of it is.... this is only two examples of your fallicies that I proved to be grossly edited and misleading!!! One can only conclude the rest of your passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be no differnt. Shall we go through them one by one as well? I'm pretty sure sure you would hope not!
Pax tecum
[/SUP]
well..
1. thanks for showing us the whole thing.
2. Sadly, it seems it says exactly what the OP says. Context does not make it say anything else.
of course I think it is funny. The roman church rejects context when it comes to the word of God. yet demands we follow context when we talk about their own official church document (even though, your context is just as flawed as when you try to take it to scripture)
Once again, what we have with this thread of yours bud, is another gross example of your editing to fuel your anti-Catholic agenda. Your not giving yourself much credence doing so. No, it actually shows the lengths of the malefactor tactics you'll stoop too. If you are going to quote from a official Catholic source, do so in it's entirety. Sheesh.... {rolling eyes}
lets take a look at a couple examples of your grossly deceptive editing tactics, shall we!
Your gross edited version:
And then we have the true unedited version:
Paragraph 6. Mary—Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church.
I. Mary’s Motherhood with Regard to the Church:
969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."[SUP]512[/SUP][SUP] ([/SUP][SUP]149[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]501[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]1370[/SUP][SUP])[/SUP]
[SUP]
970:
"Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."
[/SUP][SUP]513[/SUP][SUP] "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."[/SUP]
[SUP]
and just for your alls informatin......
II. Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
[/SUP][SUP]2673-2679[/SUP]
[SUP]
971:[/SUP][SUP]"All generations will call me blessed": "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."( Lk 1:48; Paul VI, MC 56.)The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."
Now if we Catholics are to worship Mary like you say we do, don't you think of all places, the Catechism of the Catholic Church would say so??
Nope.... but it does say..."This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."
And here again we have your gross edited version:
And the true unedited version;
II. ...Born of the Virgin Mary; Paragraph 3:
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."(Lk 1:28–38; cf. Rom 1:5.) Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s graceCf. LG 56.) (
[/SUP][SUP]2617[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]148[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]968[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]726[/SUP][SUP])"[/SUP]
[SUP]
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert... : "The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."
So you can very easily see, what you posted was actually nothing more that a quote from St.Irenaeus. {rolling eyes} And the ironic thing of it is.... this is only two examples of your fallicies that I proved to be grossly edited and misleading!!! One can only conclude the rest of your passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be no differnt. Shall we go through them one by one as well? I'm pretty sure sure you would hope not!
Pax tecum
[/SUP]
lets take a look at a couple examples of your grossly deceptive editing tactics, shall we!
Your gross edited version:
And then we have the true unedited version:
Paragraph 6. Mary—Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church.
I. Mary’s Motherhood with Regard to the Church:
969: "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfilment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."[SUP]512[/SUP][SUP] ([/SUP][SUP]149[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]501[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]1370[/SUP][SUP])[/SUP]
[SUP]
970:
"Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."
[/SUP][SUP]513[/SUP][SUP] "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."[/SUP]
[SUP]
and just for your alls informatin......
II. Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
[/SUP][SUP]2673-2679[/SUP]
[SUP]
971:[/SUP][SUP]"All generations will call me blessed": "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."( Lk 1:48; Paul VI, MC 56.)The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."
Now if we Catholics are to worship Mary like you say we do, don't you think of all places, the Catechism of the Catholic Church would say so??
Nope.... but it does say..."This very special devotion... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."
And here again we have your gross edited version:
And the true unedited version;
II. ...Born of the Virgin Mary; Paragraph 3:
494 At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible": "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be [done] to me according to your word."(Lk 1:28–38; cf. Rom 1:5.) Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace
Cf. LG 56.) ([/SUP][SUP]2617[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]148[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]968[/SUP][SUP], [/SUP][SUP]726[/SUP][SUP])"[/SUP]
[SUP]
As St. Irenaeus says, "Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert... : "The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith."Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary "the Mother of the living" and frequently claim: "Death through Eve, life through Mary."
So you can very easily see, what you posted was actually nothing more that a quote from St.Irenaeus. {rolling eyes} And the ironic thing of it is.... this is only two examples of your fallicies that I proved to be grossly edited and misleading!!! One can only conclude the rest of your passages from the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be no differnt. Shall we go through them one by one as well? I'm pretty sure sure you would hope not!
Pax tecum
[/SUP]
What exactly did you quote that disproves what I posted? What I posted comes straight from your own Catechism. I didn't post the whole thing because I don't think most people here want to read all of that drivel.
Seriously - what did you disprove?
Your "church" teaches that Jesus is sacrificed over and over again for the remission of sins.
The Bible says Jesus was sacrificed only once, and for all time.
Your "church" teaches Mary is a mediator.
The Bible says Jesus is the only mediator.
Your "church" teaches Mary has never sinned.
The Bible says all have sinned, and that there is none righteous - not even one. The only one who has never sinned is God/Christ.
Your "church" teaches there exists a purgatory to "cleanse" people with fire, of sins the blood of Jesus didn't cover.
The Bible says the blood of Jesus paid for every sin - the sins of the whole world.
Your "church" teaches that no one can be saved outside of her.
The Bible says all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Just those five examples alone proves your "church" to be an abomination. One that is at war with God's Word. A "church" that has murdered countless people who have disagreed with her. One who has burned people at the stake for the crime of possessing a Bible, or translating the Bible so that others could read God's precious Word.
The Roman Catholic Church is a blasphemous, wretched, satanic, sin-hole. And all of your attempts to put lipstick on a pig won't make it beautiful, or change what it is.
Oh, and as you have avoided the following, over and over again, on the thread "Catholic Heresy For The Record" - I'm going to post it here. You can't evade it forever:
You claimed that when Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran, it was simply out of "respect" for Islam and Muslims.
WHY would any true Christian show respect for a religion that is literally leading billions of people to hell?
It's the same as showing respect to Satanism, or Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, or any other religion that is damning souls!
Would you kiss the Satanic Bible, Ford? How about the book of Mormon? Would you kiss the Koran?
Will Muslims make it to heaven, Ford? How about Buddhists, Hindus, Satanists, Mormons, etc.?
quoting from the bible dose not change what i already said ,sorry history will disagree, so what non christin jew, would approve a gentile reading the torah. agian alredy stated by me. so take it up with them.
would you like to continue also who in the writer of the new testament,opinion would be classed as anti christ.
would you like to continue also who in the writer of the new testament,opinion would be classed as anti christ.
new flash, sorry ,what god told the single writer of the a given book of the bible,god told them to write, who put all the books together is history, and that boast would go to romans. yet you would have though you would have know that.
blind in history, or blind judgement. either way its clear ware you are, nobody was alive (human writer of any given book) when the bible went to print. so how do you explain the other religion that follow jesus. so they must have read it, before being spoken to. again up to interpretation.
blind in history, or blind judgement. either way its clear ware you are, nobody was alive (human writer of any given book) when the bible went to print. so how do you explain the other religion that follow jesus. so they must have read it, before being spoken to. again up to interpretation.
there picking fault in choice words, they cant think out side the box. the non christian jew, would be classed as anti christ to the writers of the bible. and any religion that is anti christ would not believe in jesus, like jehovah witnesses. yet they read a christian bible. religion v religion when both look at the same christian bible. so using v the bible, yet cant see basic teaching of forgiveness, or judge not or be judged is also a jesus basic foundation. so again blinded by there own endeavor. ie they had no intent to debate, so it dont matter.
I don't think anyone here hates Catholics.
I think people here hate the lies the Catholic church teaches.
I wonder how anyone can remain a Catholic after reading Martin Luthers 95 Theses.
I wonder how you can give men the authority that can only be held by God and think they won't abuse it. That's what the Catholics do and it keeps biting them.
I think people here hate the lies the Catholic church teaches.
I wonder how anyone can remain a Catholic after reading Martin Luthers 95 Theses.
I wonder how you can give men the authority that can only be held by God and think they won't abuse it. That's what the Catholics do and it keeps biting them.
E
Many claim to follow christ, yet they do not follow his teachings, that would be an antichrist, because they are using christ against himself. (claiming Jesus said things he did not..and taught things he never taught)
It happens all the time, The jews have done this for centuries now. Claiming to be followers of YHWH, yet not teaching or beliving what YHWH has taught or said.
It happens all the time, The jews have done this for centuries now. Claiming to be followers of YHWH, yet not teaching or beliving what YHWH has taught or said.