THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#21
1 Timothy 3:15 if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.

Haggai 2:9 The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the LORD of hosts.

Colossians 1:17-20 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#22
John 21:15 .) So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 .) He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 .) He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
#23
church- Ecclessia

LOCAL and VISIBLE

It either speaks of the institution of the church.. like 'the bar', 'the post office', 'the dog'

or is of one particular church-- eg. at Antioch, at Phillipi, at Corinth

There is no where in scripture that speaks of a universal, invisible church.. or a universal visible church.


So the common response is.. but a church is not a building.

That is right! It isn't a building.. it is a local body of believers. Real, flesh and blood local assembly/congregation.

The Body of Christ-- is of either of the body in question eg.. At Corinth.. at Ephesus etc.. or as a general term for the institution of the local unit. Eg.. 'the dog'

Now.. I am not saying there is no universal entity that exists.. there are two of them. The KINGDOM and the FAMILY OF GOD.

The Kingdom is the widest universal entity of all of Gods dominion.. then the Family of God is within this..

Then the body of Christ inside these. It is LOCAL and VISIBLE.

Church at Jerusalem-- although very large.. was visible and in Jerusalem. Church at Corinth.. same... very large.. but in the city of Corinth.

NOT buildings.. but local congregations.


Body of Christ-- local assembly of saved baptised believers, covenanted together to carry out the great commandment and commission with Jesus as the Head.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#24
There is no where in scripture that speaks of a universal, invisible church.. or a universal visible church.

Depends on one's definition of the Church. I have never proposed a "universal" church. Not sure what you mean by that. Sounds sorta like Catholic ideology.

Now, as for the Body of Christ being One, you are completely wrong if you think it is not. Any disciple of Christ is part of the One Body of Christ, and there are a plethora of Scripture that say just this. ALL who belong to Jesus, belong to Jesus, matters not which city, town, State, Country they live in, or which congregation they fellowship with. They are ALL of the One Body, the One Church of which Jesus is the Head.

I suggest you do a wee bit more studying about this.............to see the truth of the One Body/One Church.

Phrases such as "universal invisible" or "universal visible" sound quite like snares being set to trap any who believe in the One Body of Christ.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#25
One Body, One Church, One With Jesus........

John 10:1 .) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 .) But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 .) To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 .) And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 .) And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 .) This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 .) Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 .) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 .) I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 .) The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 .) I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 .) But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 .) The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 .) I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 .) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 .) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 .) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 .) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 .) There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20 .) And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21 .) Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22 .) And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 .) And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 .) Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 .) Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 .) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 .) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 .) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 .) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 .) I and my Father are one.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#26
[video=youtube_share;CIvCO11uBtE]http://youtu.be/CIvCO11uBtE[/video] .............
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#27
Let us see if we can find the Scriptures where the Apostle Pau and/or others gave specific instructions to the Church.

I believe that applies here.

This first one is a TOUGH one to deal with, but he did instruct the church at Corinth in this way:

1 Corinthians 5:1 .) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 .) And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 .) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 .) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 .) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

[I understand some of these may be debatable........but I ask that we only post the Scriptures we find, not get into long running debates over their interpretation....please? Thanks]
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,047
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New Zealand
#28
There is no where in scripture that speaks of a universal, invisible church.. or a universal visible church.

Depends on one's definition of the Church. I have never proposed a "universal" church. Not sure what you mean by that. Sounds sorta like Catholic ideology.

Now, as for the Body of Christ being One, you are completely wrong if you think it is not. Any disciple of Christ is part of the One Body of Christ, and there are a plethora of Scripture that say just this. ALL who belong to Jesus, belong to Jesus, matters not which city, town, State, Country they live in, or which congregation they fellowship with. They are ALL of the One Body, the One Church of which Jesus is the Head.

I suggest you do a wee bit more studying about this.............to see the truth of the One Body/One Church.

Phrases such as "universal invisible" or "universal visible" sound quite like snares being set to trap any who believe in the One Body of Christ.

Which scripture speaks of every disciple being part of the one body of Christ?

The body of Christ is the church-- and the church is Ecclessia-- which is a local congregation/assembly.

One body of Christ at Corinth.. one body of Christ at Antioch.. one body of Christ at Ephesus.. one body of Christ at Phillipi etc...

All the descriptions of the body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 12 are of locality and close relationship. This could only describe a local body.. a universal body has none of the features described in it.

But if the body of Christ is every disciple.. then it would be universal, invisible or universal visible. For protestants it is universal invisible.. for Catholics it is universal visible.

Anyway,

I guess it doesn't matter a huge amount if christians still focus on the local church as the main source of teaching and leadership etc..

It is when the local church is neglected because of the belief in a universal church that it becomes a problem. Eg.. para church orgs doing what local churches should be doing.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#29
Wattie............I quoted an entire passage of Scripture showing you that. If you don't understand it, that's on you, not me.

There are Scriptures throughout the NT that prove your assertion is untrue.

If all you want to do is tear down and argue, and kill the Spirit, do it on other threads and not mine please. There are many here who will happily join with you in assuring that the Edification of the Church does not take place here on CC.

Go in peace..................
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#30
There is no where in scripture that speaks of a universal, invisible church.. or a universal visible church.

Depends on one's definition of the Church. I have never proposed a "universal" church. Not sure what you mean by that. Sounds sorta like Catholic ideology.

Now, as for the Body of Christ being One, you are completely wrong if you think it is not. Any disciple of Christ is part of the One Body of Christ, and there are a plethora of Scripture that say just this. ALL who belong to Jesus, belong to Jesus, matters not which city, town, State, Country they live in, or which congregation they fellowship with. They are ALL of the One Body, the One Church of which Jesus is the Head.

I suggest you do a wee bit more studying about this.............to see the truth of the One Body/One Church.

Phrases such as "universal invisible" or "universal visible" sound quite like snares being set to trap any who believe in the One Body of Christ.
It has been my understanding that church refers to any local congregation; while Church can mean either:

1) part of a proper name of an individual congregation.

2) the universal church which I define as all true believers in every time and place.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#31
It has been my understanding that church refers to any local congregation; while Church can mean either:

1) part of a proper name of an individual congregation.

2) the universal church which I define as all true believers in every time and place.
Yes, such as with the Epistles addressed to various "churches" in the area.....Corinth.......etc. And, yes, Church is the description of the Entire Body of Believers. Apparently, some folks do not believe we are all One Church. Hey, don't ask me.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#32
It seems that simple words are ignored....on the earth we have CHURCHES (plural) and at the same time there is ONE BODY of believers in HEAVEN....each church ON EARTH is its OWN autonomous BODY..independent of each other with Christ as it's head.......the plurality of the word cannot be denied and or swept under the rug in favor of a particular religious denominations view.....! The definition of the word cannot be swept under the rug in favor of a particular flavor of thought either!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
6,547
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#33
Romans 10:8 .) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 .) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 .) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 .) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 .) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 .) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 .) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 .) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#34
Ephesians 4:4 .) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 .) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 .) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 .) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 .) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 .) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 .) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 .) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 .) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 .) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#35
Colossians 1:10 .) That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 .) Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 .) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 .) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 .) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 .) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 .) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 .) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 .) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,207
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#36
Titus 1:1 .) Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 .) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 .) But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4 .) To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
5 .) For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6 .) If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 .) For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 .) But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 .) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#37
James 5:13 .) Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
14 .) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 .) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 .) Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#38
Acts 15:4 .) And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 .) But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 .) And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 .) And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 .) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 .) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 .) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 .) But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,047
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New Zealand
#39
It seems that simple words are ignored....on the earth we have CHURCHES (plural) and at the same time there is ONE BODY of believers in HEAVEN....each church ON EARTH is its OWN autonomous BODY..independent of each other with Christ as it's head.......the plurality of the word cannot be denied and or swept under the rug in favor of a particular religious denominations view.....! The definition of the word cannot be swept under the rug in favor of a particular flavor of thought either!
Yeah, this is right.

I also agree there is the one body, one church in heaven. It is on earth that it is plural for 'churches'.

I guess the majority of Christians call what you and I say is the Kingdom and Family.. as the body of Christ being the same thing.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#40
There is multiple buildings here on earth that are called churches.
But the true Church that Jesus started is the body of believers in Him here on earth.
Rather you are baptist, evangelist, penecostal, or any other denomination if your faith is in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are part of the true Church.

The Church is not a building or a denomination...............................................