The Doctrine According to Godliness

[Skinski7]

Points of Fact:


1. Peter teaches that Christians have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2Pet 1:3-4).

2. Paul teaches that Christian’s have crucified their flesh with the passions and desires (Gal 5:24).

3. James teaches that men are drawn into sin by the lusts of their flesh (Jam 1:14-15)

4. Peter teaches that those who suffer with Christ have ceased from sin and that they no longer walk according to the lusts of men (1Pet 4:1-2)

5. Paul teaches that if we walk after flesh we will die but if we, through the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the body then we will live (Rom 8:13).

Question.

How is it possible for a Christian to claim that he is saved and yet at the same time yield to the lusts of their flesh in an unlawful manner?
A professing Christian who engages in such behaviour is obviously violating all the above mentioned points which pertain to the actual walk of a Christian.
Jesus did clearly state that if you sin you are a slave to sin (Joh 8:34). Jesus did also say that He came to set people free indeed (Joh 8:36).
Can one be free indeed if they are still yielding to the lusts of their flesh and sinning. Not according to Jesus for if they are still engaging in that behavior they are still slaves (Joh 8:34).
Paul was in perfect agreement with Jesus on this matter for he taught that we are slaves to whom we obey whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness (Rom 6:16). There was no third option where the two mix.
Paul then stated that obedience from the heart (Rom 6:17) was the method by which people had been set free from serving sin and had instead becomes slaves of righteousness (Rom 6:18).


There are many who will read the above and deny it because of the implications it brings in regards to their own theology. Instead of addressing the specific points made they will brush it off with rhetoric and appeal to isolated portions of scripture in an attempt to dismiss what the Bible plainly teaches.

It would not surprise me if some attempted to portray the specific points I have made in a differing light by implying that somehow it translates to “saving yourself.” The fallacy here is that the dynamic of yielding to God is no more saving oneself than Noah was saving himself when he yielded to God’s instructions to build the ark.

There are many today who sincerely believe that God “makes” you do everything and that to imply that YOU actually have to do something infringes on the sovereignty and glory of God. That is pure nonsense. Was Noah glorying in himself by yielding to God through the action of building the ark? Of course not, and neither is a Christian who willingly walks after the Spirit in humble obedience to their Creator.


A vast system of error has overtaken what is nominally called Christianity in the world today.

The plain and simple teachings of Jesus have been supplanted by a vast system of theology which removes all human responsibility along with the fear of judgment.


The doctrine of Christ is according to godliness (1Ti6:3) and whoever sins and does not abide in this doctrine does not have God (2 Joh 1:9). One must abide in this doctrine to have the Father and the Son (2Joh 1:9) and this is why Jesus would teach the following…


[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:8[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:9[/FONT][FONT=&quot] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:10[/FONT][FONT=&quot] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot] These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 15:12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:8[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:9[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn 2:10[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. [/FONT]

God Bless.

 

[Blain]

Do you still not understand? You do not have the autority to claim who is a true christian and who is not, If you have overcome a thing such as lust but judge others who have more difficulty with it you are not giving light as jesus stated but trapping others in darkness. Me for example, I cannot call you an untrue christian because of your misunderstanding of god and what a christian lives by because i do not know you or the trials you go through. Instead I try to reveal to you what god has intended with as much care and love I can. Because that is what god has called us to do, You claim to have overcome such things correct? Good thats is very admirable but instead of saying such negitive things about people who have not been blessed with that help them overcome it with kindness and love and do your best to make them feel welcome in the family of christ. And i admit i am a hypocryte because i cannot say i have fully overcome judging others as much as i dispise myself for it but my words are still just as true.

 

[Skinski7]

Do you still not understand? You do not have the autority to claim who is a true christian and who is not, If you have overcome a thing such as lust but judge others who have more difficulty with it you are not giving light as jesus stated but trapping others in darkness. Me for example, I cannot call you an untrue christian because of your misunderstanding of god and what a christian lives by because i do not know you or the trials you go through. Instead I try to reveal to you what god has intended with as much care and love I can. Because that is what god has called us to do, You claim to have overcome such things correct? Good thats is very admirable but instead of saying such negitive things about people who have not been blessed with that help them overcome it with kindness and love and do your best to make them feel welcome in the family of christ. And i admit i am a hypocryte because i cannot say i have fully overcome judging others as much as i dispise myself for it but my words are still just as true.

You just give a bunch of rhetoric basically saying "you can't judge" and "you're saying negative things" and don't address a single point I made.

If an individual is walking in the lusts of the flesh then they have obviously not crucified the flesh with the passions and desires and thus they are obviously NOT Christ's. That is what the BIBLE teaches.

You might find it offensive and judgmental but your problem is not with me, it is with the Bible.

I never accused you of not being a Christian. You are obviously seeing an application of my words (and the Bible) to your own situation in that you find it so offensive.

 

[Blain]

You just give a bunch of rhetoric basically saying "you can't judge" and "you're saying negative things" and don't address a single point I made.

If an individual is walking in the lusts of the flesh then they have obviously not crucified the flesh with the passions and desires and thus they are obviously NOT Christ's. That is what the BIBLE teaches.

You might find it offensive and judgmental but your problem is not with me, it is with the Bible.

I never accused you of not being a Christian. You are obviously seeing an application of my words (and the Bible) to your own situation in that you find it so offensive.

No I have nothing against the bible and it is not me I think you are speaking of. I think you are speaking of those who struggle with such things and therefore you say they are not of christ, But if someone who has accepted christ yet severely struggles with something like lust, or has trouble not lying because they have done it for so long that does not mean they do not belong with to christ. Again you are not in the position to say who belongs to him or not, Many people come here to cc to seek help with such things but if the first thing they read on here were what you teach they would start to think they never belonged to him in the first place when in fact they do belong to him. I am merely trying to teach you why you should first off not believe such things but more importantly not teach them, So that we can save many others. You can offend me all you want I would rather you say all these things about me than address all others who stuggle with such things.

 

[SPUZIT]

A quick reply, I see one point standing out to me here. When we first come to the lord, repentive,,, God forgives ALL our sins at once, God tthen never looks back at our sins... as we move forward in christ er are learning to be obedient. Or to rebellion & hold back. The sins we still hold onto weather old ( that God has already forgiven or sins he shows us along the way) how we learn listen. & Urals to the lord our holy God is up to us. Yet to willingly disobey. When God enlightens us can be very spiritualy unhealthy even unto our own death, ( my view) we as already forgiven Christians still have the ability to sin, thus it is most important to pray in communication with God thru our lord, repent and to the best of our abilities fallow in the Jesus walked, by his examples & his stripes we will teach our heavenly bound goal...praise God for his mercy. Thanks for the subject, not many would open a Pandora's box as you did. Bless you for your faith...

 

[Skinski7]

No I have nothing against the bible and it is not me I think you are speaking of. I think you are speaking of those who struggle with such things and therefore you say they are not of christ, But if someone who has accepted christ yet severely struggles with something like lust, or has trouble not lying because they have done it for so long that does not mean they do not belong with to christ. Again you are not in the position to say who belongs to him or not, Many people come here to cc to seek help with such things but if the first thing they read on here were what you teach they would start to think they never belonged to him in the first place when in fact they do belong to him. I am merely trying to teach you why you should first off not believe such things but more importantly not teach them, So that we can save many others. You can offend me all you want I would rather you say all these things about me than address all others who stuggle with such things.

The problem with your rhetoric is that it contradicts the plain words of the Bible.

Galatians 5:24 says this...

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Which means that if an individual is still living according to the lusts of their flesh then they ARE NOT Christ's and whether they "accepted Jesus" is irrelevant because the Bible DOES NOT TEACH ANYWHERE that you just "accept Jesus."

Many people "accept Jesus" and yet are still enslaved to their flesh. The Bible clearly teaches that a Christian HAS ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world through LUST. How can a Christian be enslaved to their lusts and yet have escaped their lusts at the same time? It is most certainly impossible yet it is much easier to ignore such logic and to ignore the plain teachings of the scripture and appeal to human rhetoric to excuse such behaviour.

It is this very reason that VERY FEW actually teach this...

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Those who PROFESS Jesus and yet still WORK INIQUITY will be rejected at the judgement.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

VERY FEW take the words of Jesus seriously. Jesus is not joking. He peeling back the veil of time to warn people that MANY would SHOCKED on judgement day to find out that they NEVER REALLY KNEW HIM. They were DECEIVED.

Don't be one of them.

 

[Repentionofignorance]

Only if you willingly disobey do you ignore the salvation that you have received. saved or not, one of the biggest problems to overcome is that of the flesh. If you decide to turn away and never come back, than you are truly overcome by the lusts of your flesh. Everyone has a problem with sin. Believing in Jesus Christ gives us the power to ignore the lust of the flesh and to seek God in everything you do. You may fall once, but if you do not fall away, and are truly sorry for what you did, you are God's child and you will still be Christian.

 

[Blain]

The problem with your rhetoric is that it contradicts the plain words of the Bible.

Galatians 5:24 says this...

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Which means that if an individual is still living according to the lusts of their flesh then they ARE NOT Christ's and whether they "accepted Jesus" is irrelevant because the Bible DOES NOT TEACH ANYWHERE that you just "accept Jesus."

Many people "accept Jesus" and yet are still enslaved to their flesh. The Bible clearly teaches that a Christian HAS ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world through LUST. How can a Christian be enslaved to their lusts and yet have escaped their lusts at the same time? It is most certainly impossible yet it is much easier to ignore such logic and to ignore the plain teachings of the scripture and appeal to human rhetoric to excuse such behaviour.

It is this very reason that VERY FEW actually teach this...

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Those who PROFESS Jesus and yet still WORK INIQUITY will be rejected at the judgement.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

VERY FEW take the words of Jesus seriously. Jesus is not joking. He peeling back the veil of time to warn people that MANY would SHOCKED on judgement day to find out that they NEVER REALLY KNEW HIM. They were DECEIVED.

Don't be one of them.

Well i guess I have a different bond with god than you do, I believe what i believe because of the love god has shown me. If someone is a christian but then turns away from god because of fleshly desires then the seed did not take roots but they are still beloved to god and its our job to collect and protect his flock not tell them they are not of christ because they are they just haven't realized it yet. I intend to show love and care to everyone and bring them to christ by telling them how much god loves them and how much I care for them, Not telling them their aweful sins because I believe that is not what god wants us to do and that doesn't sound like a loving christian to me. And don't worry I am not one of those people who claim to know god but don't

 

[zone]

How is it possible for a Christian to claim that he is saved and yet at the same time yield to the lusts of their flesh in an unlawful manner?
A professing Christian who engages in such behaviour is obviously violating all the above mentioned points which pertain to the actual walk of a Christian.

that's a very good question.
how was it possible for you to be preaching such holiness in 1999....while obviously not living the life you said you were.

FACT:

a) you were lying and are still lying
OR
b) you were saved yet struggling with sin.

which was/is it?

did you ever go back and confess your sins and make amends to those you faked holiness and purity to?
that's a long time ago, Skinski.

see, there's just something about the internet that allows for real fruit to be faked.
real life, though....reveals much.

i do think the only thing i deplore more than my own sin, are sinful hypocrites who say they're sinless.

 

[zone]

The plain and simple teachings of Jesus have been supplanted by a vast system of theology which removes all human responsibility along with the fear of judgment.

Matthew 23:27
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones and all uncleanness.

back later.
why couldn't you just be honest when i asked you the first time, Scott?

 

[crossnote]

Even the weakest struggling Christian can take comfort. The difference in attitude toward sin is big, are you comfortable in it and justify it or do you continually seek His help and forgiveness?

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
(Mat 18:21-22)

If we are to forgive our brother limitless times how much more will God be faithful to forgive our sins. There are some on this board that seem to think one or two slips and you are toast.
God is not out to scorch His children, He died to save them and that He will do.

 

[Blain]

I believe if we really know god then we will not judge others for their sins, for who are we to judge for things we have done in the past? We should direct them to the right path yes but not in the mannar skinski has in mind. Jesus taught in love and had compassion on his people for they were like lost sheep without a shepherd, they only people he said were hypocrytes and like snakes were the pharasee's and teachers of the law, because they were so careful to make it seem like they were true keepers of the law but they were vile and evil inside. and besides even if people do as skinski says then that should be all the more reason to have compassion on them and try to help them correct?