The Eternal Purpose of creation !
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Was it God's will for Adam to Sin ?
Was it Gods will and intention for Adam to bring sin into the world : For Rom 5:12 reads:
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Yes indeed it was God's will for Adam to sin. For the purpose of creation of te world was all for Christ..
Col 1:16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Eph 3:9-11
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
For Adam was made for a redemptive purpose; so how could adam fulfill Gods purpose without plunging all of His descendants into sin ?
I have yet been able to find a scripture that says all things were created for adam, but we do find a Scripture that states emphatically, that all things were created for Christ or unto Christ.
Now Christ eternal purpose was redemptive and involved the calling of the gentiles Eph 3:11, but lets pay close to the two words eternal purpose in vs 11
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eternal purpose is literally, the Eternal plan or compact that God made in eternity past, within the purpose of the everlasting covenant.
Now many say at this juncture that they believe in the eternal purpose of Christ, but I am afraid it is merely lip service to the truth of Gods eternal purpose in Christ, because the very same ones will turn right around and deny that God wanted adam to sin. They say that God would have preferred not that adam sinned, but because he did sin, God foresaw it, so then God purposed Christ as a sort of back up plan ! But what kinda nonsense is that ? Thats actually contradicting and overturning the clear scripture teaching that that the Eternal Purpose was centered in Jesus Christ or its saying that Jesus Christ was secondary to Gods purpose of adam, which thinking is actually giving the purpose of adam the preeminence over the purpose of Christ, which undermines this:
Col 1:18
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Now certainly, if Jesus Christ was a back up plan for the failure of adam, then adam had the preeminence over Christ in Gods First Purpose..
This thinking is a total repudiation of the truth that all things [ Including adam] were created by and for Jesus Christ.49
Was it Gods will and intention for Adam to bring sin into the world : For Rom 5:12 reads:
12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Yes indeed it was God's will for Adam to sin. For the purpose of creation of te world was all for Christ..
Col 1:16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Eph 3:9-11
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
For Adam was made for a redemptive purpose; so how could adam fulfill Gods purpose without plunging all of His descendants into sin ?
I have yet been able to find a scripture that says all things were created for adam, but we do find a Scripture that states emphatically, that all things were created for Christ or unto Christ.
Now Christ eternal purpose was redemptive and involved the calling of the gentiles Eph 3:11, but lets pay close to the two words eternal purpose in vs 11
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eternal purpose is literally, the Eternal plan or compact that God made in eternity past, within the purpose of the everlasting covenant.
Now many say at this juncture that they believe in the eternal purpose of Christ, but I am afraid it is merely lip service to the truth of Gods eternal purpose in Christ, because the very same ones will turn right around and deny that God wanted adam to sin. They say that God would have preferred not that adam sinned, but because he did sin, God foresaw it, so then God purposed Christ as a sort of back up plan ! But what kinda nonsense is that ? Thats actually contradicting and overturning the clear scripture teaching that that the Eternal Purpose was centered in Jesus Christ or its saying that Jesus Christ was secondary to Gods purpose of adam, which thinking is actually giving the purpose of adam the preeminence over the purpose of Christ, which undermines this:
Col 1:18
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Now certainly, if Jesus Christ was a back up plan for the failure of adam, then adam had the preeminence over Christ in Gods First Purpose..
This thinking is a total repudiation of the truth that all things [ Including adam] were created by and for Jesus Christ.49
Was it Gods will for Adam to Sin ? cont
Now certainly, if Jesus Christ was a back up plan for the failure of Adam, then Adam had the preeminence over Christ in Gods First Purpose..
This thinking is a total repudiation of the truth that all things [ Including Adam] were created by and for Jesus Christ..
This carnal reasoning that puts Jesus Christ as a back plan does not really believe what the scripture clearly teaches, that all things are for Christ, this reasoning however believes that initially all things were for Adam, hence the creature is being exalted over the creator.. Rom 1:25
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For Jesus Christ is clearly identified as the Creator Col 1:16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Jn 1:3
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
So no matter what one may claim by their mouth to believe, if they don't understand that sin/evil being Gods perfect holy will for this world, and that Adam was created very good in order to bring that purpose by his disobedience, then they do not understand the preeminence of Jesus Christ in all things over adam, and have elevated the creature over the creator, which is nothing short of Idolatry !
Now, was it Gods perfect Holy will for Adam to sin and bring evil into the world in the beginning ? Again the answer is yes, an emphatic yes, no question about it.
Now there is a principle that is very important here that is often lost sight of, found in Gen 50:20
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
You see here, sin and evil is given its defining purpose and definition, men and devil mean it for evil, but God meant evil and sin for Good, Oh yes, Satan's evil deceiving of the first parents of the election, was meant for evil, but God meant it for Good, in other words, Satan was just doing what Gods eternal purpose in Jesus Christ predetermined for him to do, to bring to pass the salvation purpose of Jesus Christ..
So that it will bring to pass what we have recorded here in Rev 5:6-14
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
And Rev 7:10-12
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
So you who believe it was not Gods will for Adam to sin and bring evil into this world, but that God would have rathered for Adam not to had sin, but that he would have lived perfectly forever and ever without sin, then you are saying that the worship and praises we read of in Rev 5:6-14 and Rev 7:10-12, were not Gods first preference from creation, but a back up plan to adam...
The devil meant sin for evil, but God meant it for Good, to bring about the salvation / redemption of the people by the blood of the lamb, slain from the foundation of the world 50
Now certainly, if Jesus Christ was a back up plan for the failure of Adam, then Adam had the preeminence over Christ in Gods First Purpose..
This thinking is a total repudiation of the truth that all things [ Including Adam] were created by and for Jesus Christ..
This carnal reasoning that puts Jesus Christ as a back plan does not really believe what the scripture clearly teaches, that all things are for Christ, this reasoning however believes that initially all things were for Adam, hence the creature is being exalted over the creator.. Rom 1:25
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For Jesus Christ is clearly identified as the Creator Col 1:16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Jn 1:3
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
So no matter what one may claim by their mouth to believe, if they don't understand that sin/evil being Gods perfect holy will for this world, and that Adam was created very good in order to bring that purpose by his disobedience, then they do not understand the preeminence of Jesus Christ in all things over adam, and have elevated the creature over the creator, which is nothing short of Idolatry !
Now, was it Gods perfect Holy will for Adam to sin and bring evil into the world in the beginning ? Again the answer is yes, an emphatic yes, no question about it.
Now there is a principle that is very important here that is often lost sight of, found in Gen 50:20
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
You see here, sin and evil is given its defining purpose and definition, men and devil mean it for evil, but God meant evil and sin for Good, Oh yes, Satan's evil deceiving of the first parents of the election, was meant for evil, but God meant it for Good, in other words, Satan was just doing what Gods eternal purpose in Jesus Christ predetermined for him to do, to bring to pass the salvation purpose of Jesus Christ..
So that it will bring to pass what we have recorded here in Rev 5:6-14
6And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
And Rev 7:10-12
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
So you who believe it was not Gods will for Adam to sin and bring evil into this world, but that God would have rathered for Adam not to had sin, but that he would have lived perfectly forever and ever without sin, then you are saying that the worship and praises we read of in Rev 5:6-14 and Rev 7:10-12, were not Gods first preference from creation, but a back up plan to adam...
The devil meant sin for evil, but God meant it for Good, to bring about the salvation / redemption of the people by the blood of the lamb, slain from the foundation of the world 50
I never have found this (belief) either. I will say though it is interesting that every man, woman and child (even JESUS) that reaches the ability to understand and reason has to (CHOOSE) which kingdom they want to be apart of. Either the fallen Kingdom of Satan (this world) or the Kingdom of God manifest in (Jesus). Even Jesus was given Milk and honey that he may LEARN TO CHOOSE THE GOOD over the BAD. I think the (WHY) God made all this goes deeper than most can comprehend if any, but at the end of the day I can say with certainty that it is all about (CHOICH). Two kingdoms, two ways of life, One God and One Imposter, Two masters, two paths, two destinies, etc. all the way down to two choices...Choose you this day who you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
First quote explains much...
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Now read this again and think about this...
Gen 1:26 And God said,
1)Let us make man in our image,
2)after our likeness:
Man is a two phase creation. First of all, all men are made in the image of God. We look like Him. Secondly, we are to be made in the likeness of God at the resurrection...
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
The purpose for man is to become God's children. God is expanding His family. We are to be the sons and daughters of God and the brothers and sisters of Christ. This occurs at the resurrection.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Now read this again and think about this...
Gen 1:26 And God said,
1)Let us make man in our image,
2)after our likeness:
Man is a two phase creation. First of all, all men are made in the image of God. We look like Him. Secondly, we are to be made in the likeness of God at the resurrection...
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
The purpose for man is to become God's children. God is expanding His family. We are to be the sons and daughters of God and the brothers and sisters of Christ. This occurs at the resurrection.
The Cross of Christ, the Eternal Purpose of Creation !
This creation was made to Glorify God, in the totality of His Person, and His Glorious Attributes, and Triunity. The cross of Christ is most vital for the Purpose of all creation, for it exceeds Adam, it exceeds Israel the Nation. In Fact for no other purpose was creation even relevant, for He [Christ] was foreordained before the foundation, He was slain from the foundation.
1 Cor 1:23
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Cor 2:2
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Gal 6:14
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
So creation and all subsequent entities were subservient to a Eternal Redemptive Purpose, the Cross Eph 3:9-11
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
For this [ Gods Eternal Purpose of the Cross] this must be factored into Paul's preaching of Christ and Him crucified [ 1 Cor 2:2]
He writes of their Glory 1 Cor 2:6-7
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Paul no doubt had the wisdom of the cross and its Eternal Purpose at Mind.
An understanding of this can not but establish the Fact that God purposed sin into the World, to accomplish His Eternal Purpose of the cross, Christ and Him crucified. 51
This creation was made to Glorify God, in the totality of His Person, and His Glorious Attributes, and Triunity. The cross of Christ is most vital for the Purpose of all creation, for it exceeds Adam, it exceeds Israel the Nation. In Fact for no other purpose was creation even relevant, for He [Christ] was foreordained before the foundation, He was slain from the foundation.
1 Cor 1:23
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1 Cor 2:2
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Gal 6:14
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
So creation and all subsequent entities were subservient to a Eternal Redemptive Purpose, the Cross Eph 3:9-11
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
For this [ Gods Eternal Purpose of the Cross] this must be factored into Paul's preaching of Christ and Him crucified [ 1 Cor 2:2]
He writes of their Glory 1 Cor 2:6-7
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Paul no doubt had the wisdom of the cross and its Eternal Purpose at Mind.
An understanding of this can not but establish the Fact that God purposed sin into the World, to accomplish His Eternal Purpose of the cross, Christ and Him crucified. 51
@svedbygrace
In regards to the topic of whether or not it was God's intent for mankind to sin. I do not believe that God intended for mankind to sin. Rather I would propose mankind chose to sin and God's intent is to save us from sin and death.
Here is my reasoning:
1. First we know Mankind was made immortal and freely was able to eat of any plant in the Garden of Eden and free to eat of the Tree of Life. Thus God's original intent was for Mankind to be immortal and to be happy and good.
2. What was mankind's first sin and the effects of that sin? Mankind's first sin was when mankind forsook God and being beguiled by a lie ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and thus death itself enterred the world.
3. Point #2 is further enforced by God's very first command and warning to Adam. Remember God doesn't arbitrarily command stuff, He does it for good reasons because he doesn't intend for mankind to suffer, but rather for mankind to live.
Genesis: 16-17 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17) But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
4. So it would seem to me that God intended for us to live forever. He even told mankind the truth and warned us that the consequences of disobeying the only rule in the universe would be Death. It seems it was Satan's purpose for mankind to sin and die. This point is further reinforced by the fact that Satan could only get mankind to accept Death by using a few subtle lies. God again shows his mercy by not smiting us outright since we transgressed only because we were tricked whereas if mankind had not been tricked we would not have transgressed. (Thus also showing His Forgiveness and Justice.)
5. Plus take this into context of the entire Bible and scope of human history. God promises to forgive mankind his transgressions, if mankind freely chooses to be forgiven, because He loves us, not hates us. Thus God have a plan to save us all that we might still live for eternity and the Creation can be restored back to its original intent. That plan is His eternal promise of salvation, a gift offered for free by Jesus whole life story and teachings.
Just some thoughts on the matter, and also how it ties into the broader subject of the Eternal Purpose of Creation, why the Creation got messed up, and how it will be again restored.
In regards to the topic of whether or not it was God's intent for mankind to sin. I do not believe that God intended for mankind to sin. Rather I would propose mankind chose to sin and God's intent is to save us from sin and death.
Here is my reasoning:
1. First we know Mankind was made immortal and freely was able to eat of any plant in the Garden of Eden and free to eat of the Tree of Life. Thus God's original intent was for Mankind to be immortal and to be happy and good.
2. What was mankind's first sin and the effects of that sin? Mankind's first sin was when mankind forsook God and being beguiled by a lie ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and thus death itself enterred the world.
3. Point #2 is further enforced by God's very first command and warning to Adam. Remember God doesn't arbitrarily command stuff, He does it for good reasons because he doesn't intend for mankind to suffer, but rather for mankind to live.
Genesis: 16-17 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (17) But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
4. So it would seem to me that God intended for us to live forever. He even told mankind the truth and warned us that the consequences of disobeying the only rule in the universe would be Death. It seems it was Satan's purpose for mankind to sin and die. This point is further reinforced by the fact that Satan could only get mankind to accept Death by using a few subtle lies. God again shows his mercy by not smiting us outright since we transgressed only because we were tricked whereas if mankind had not been tricked we would not have transgressed. (Thus also showing His Forgiveness and Justice.)
5. Plus take this into context of the entire Bible and scope of human history. God promises to forgive mankind his transgressions, if mankind freely chooses to be forgiven, because He loves us, not hates us. Thus God have a plan to save us all that we might still live for eternity and the Creation can be restored back to its original intent. That plan is His eternal promise of salvation, a gift offered for free by Jesus whole life story and teachings.
Just some thoughts on the matter, and also how it ties into the broader subject of the Eternal Purpose of Creation, why the Creation got messed up, and how it will be again restored.
Christ is the End of the Law !
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Christ came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy it or do away with it, for God's Law is Eternal as He is Matt 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Religionist shall never understand this, but the main purpose for the Law of God, God's Moral Law, the Commandments of God Ecclesiastes 12:13
The main and first and foremost purpose for the Law was for Christ to come and with it as it is written here in Isa 42:21
21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
His Life obedience unto it Ps 40:7-8
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
and His subsequent dying under its curse Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
See, this World was Created for an Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, this was part of God's Eternal Purpose Eph 3:9-11
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
It was through this Redemtive Purpose that God's People would receive Life Everlasting, Christ is the culmination of the Law, and everyone believing in Him, manifest the end for which God gave the Law !
The Keeping of the Law does Give Life Matt 19:16-21
Jesus knew this was Impossible for the youngster to do, and before the World began Eternal Life had already been Promised to come through Jesus Christ Titus 1:1-2
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 Jn 2:25
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1 Jn 5:11
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Its always been in His Son for His People 1 Jn 1:1-2
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Christ came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy it or do away with it, for God's Law is Eternal as He is Matt 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Religionist shall never understand this, but the main purpose for the Law of God, God's Moral Law, the Commandments of God Ecclesiastes 12:13
The main and first and foremost purpose for the Law was for Christ to come and with it as it is written here in Isa 42:21
21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
His Life obedience unto it Ps 40:7-8
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
and His subsequent dying under its curse Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 4:4-5
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
See, this World was Created for an Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, this was part of God's Eternal Purpose Eph 3:9-11
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
It was through this Redemtive Purpose that God's People would receive Life Everlasting, Christ is the culmination of the Law, and everyone believing in Him, manifest the end for which God gave the Law !
The Keeping of the Law does Give Life Matt 19:16-21
Jesus knew this was Impossible for the youngster to do, and before the World began Eternal Life had already been Promised to come through Jesus Christ Titus 1:1-2
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 Jn 2:25
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1 Jn 5:11
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Its always been in His Son for His People 1 Jn 1:1-2
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us )
God decreed sin !
God decreed sin into the world, for He Eternally Purposed before the world began, that Christ would be Crucified by wicked and sinful hands Acts 2:23
23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Yes, God's determinate counsel brought into being those wicked hands that crucified and murdered Christ !
1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Foreordained for what before the foundation ? To die a redeeming death for sin !
Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
How then did God Eternally Purpose of this Death, without Eternally purposing the wicked hands be made in fulfilling His Eternal Purpose of Christ's Redeeming Death !52
God decreed sin into the world, for He Eternally Purposed before the world began, that Christ would be Crucified by wicked and sinful hands Acts 2:23
23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Yes, God's determinate counsel brought into being those wicked hands that crucified and murdered Christ !
1 Pet 1:20
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Foreordained for what before the foundation ? To die a redeeming death for sin !
Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
How then did God Eternally Purpose of this Death, without Eternally purposing the wicked hands be made in fulfilling His Eternal Purpose of Christ's Redeeming Death !52
C
In plain words: God ordered sin to be in the world because He eternally purposed that Christ would die by wicked and sinful hands.
So, God is the cause of sin, yet He will judge us for it?
So, God's purpose all along was for Christ to die by evil man?
And here I thought that Christ died because of sin WE have done. But, thanks to you, I now understand that He died because of an act from God.
How much longer can this go on?
So, God is the cause of sin, yet He will judge us for it?
So, God's purpose all along was for Christ to die by evil man?
And here I thought that Christ died because of sin WE have done. But, thanks to you, I now understand that He died because of an act from God.
How much longer can this go on?
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Sorry crossnote, I didn't mean to cross you up on this, no pun intended!
I forgot all about this thread!
I'm sorry that you cannot understand this, but it's every where in Scripture!
Are you not made in God's Image, do you not long to be genuinely loved?
Do you not believe that the Passion of Jesus on the Cross,
with everything it entailed as Jesus submitted to the will of His Father,
as a Lamb led to the slaughter, was not a genuine love?
Compared to 100 billion angelic creatures that were made in their design to love God?
God is filled with emotions with His Covenant people;
He is angry, repents, is filled with wrath; joy, love, kindness, etc....
God cannot have these genuine emotions with creatures who have nothing to offer back in return.
Do you not think that God was not genuinely moved;
by the woman who gave all she had, a few pence,
by the woman who gave Elijah her last meal,
by the man who as a missionary, moved his entire family to China, and they all died there for God!
And on and on, both in Scripture and in Testimony!
If i am dead in my sins before God and then by His Light He is made known to me,
and I give up all that I have to follow Him, that is the beginning of genuine love.
This was all I was speaking of!
God is very much emotionally invested in Covenant Israel, whether Old or New!
God is bound with His word to the fallen Lucifer, until the full manifestation of the true Day Star,
vanquishes completely, the former!
So yes I believe God purposed Satan to fall and the Creation that was under his covering!
I believe God purposed Adam and Eve to fall, that in them a covenant people,
the 2nd Adam would be brought forth.
Jesus was never a second option, He was crucified before the foundation of the world!
It is good by me if you don't understand this, but i find it hard to believe!?
Thank of a filthy rich person and His need to be genuinely loved?
Who can he trust unless they are tested against the darkness of greed!
That's a poor example, but the best I can think of right now.
Just because the Scripture does not specifically say something,
does not mean we cannot reason with many parts of Scripture, to a conclusion!
Where there is a darkness that is the same measure as God's Light;
and there is always the possibility of something gained or something lost.
God is now invested in Love and being loved, in a war to take back His kingdom;
by frail vessels, who's genuine love is more powerful than a host of angelic beings!
just some of my thoughts
Eph 1:4 God's Eternal Purpose for Creation !
Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: God's Election of a People in Christ was from Eternity Past, before the world, yes even the universe was created. He determined to choose them apart from others that He did not choose in Christ. This Election in Christ was before the Elect were Created in Adam. Now this tells us that this world was Created for man's Existence, The Elect and the Reprobate for God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, a distinct and redemptive purpose Eph 3:11 53
Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: God's Election of a People in Christ was from Eternity Past, before the world, yes even the universe was created. He determined to choose them apart from others that He did not choose in Christ. This Election in Christ was before the Elect were Created in Adam. Now this tells us that this world was Created for man's Existence, The Elect and the Reprobate for God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, a distinct and redemptive purpose Eph 3:11 53
Which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The God of scripture s a God of purpose, before the World began the God I know of from the scripture, Sovereignly Purposed all things that cometh to pass in time, and nothing has happened without being purposed by Him. Nothing happens by chance with God, nor by bare permission, everything that happens is linked to a predetermined End in involved with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
DRA 11 According to the eternal purpose, which he made, in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Everything occurring in time was purposed by God in Eternity, so the wise man writesEcclesiastes 3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
This was made so from the strength of God's Eternal Purpose. It was a time for adam to be born or created according to God's Purpose in Christ, as well as a Time set for when Christ Himself would be born of a woman for His Purpose Gal 4:4
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
You see that ? In the fullness of Time ! That refers back to God's Purpose and time under heaven. "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:"
That's also why we have such scriptures like Rom 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
2 Tim 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, butaccording to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Isa 14:24
24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; andas I have purposed, so shall it stand:54
The God of scripture s a God of purpose, before the World began the God I know of from the scripture, Sovereignly Purposed all things that cometh to pass in time, and nothing has happened without being purposed by Him. Nothing happens by chance with God, nor by bare permission, everything that happens is linked to a predetermined End in involved with God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
DRA 11 According to the eternal purpose, which he made, in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Everything occurring in time was purposed by God in Eternity, so the wise man writesEcclesiastes 3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
This was made so from the strength of God's Eternal Purpose. It was a time for adam to be born or created according to God's Purpose in Christ, as well as a Time set for when Christ Himself would be born of a woman for His Purpose Gal 4:4
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
You see that ? In the fullness of Time ! That refers back to God's Purpose and time under heaven. "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:"
That's also why we have such scriptures like Rom 8:28
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
2 Tim 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, butaccording to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Isa 14:24
24 The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; andas I have purposed, so shall it stand:54
All things Created by and for Him, Christ !
Col 1:14-17
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
This world, and all things therein, to include Adam [and offspring in him], Eve, the serpent [his offspring in him Gen 3:15] at Creation, were made for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus , an Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
All things were by Him as the medium of Creation and because of Him for His Redemptive Purpose Vs 14.
Adam dying and the elect men in Him was purposed by God for His Glory through Jesus Christ. Remember God told Adam this Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God already from eternity knew Adam and his offspring in him were going to die, and in fact He was informing him of the same, for it was an inevitable event to happen.
Now we must understand that if God did not want Adam and his offspring in him to sin and justly die , God could have prevented it and kept him back from sinning against Him as hereGen 20:6
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
The word witheld means:
to withhold, restrain, hold back, keep in check, refrain
And God suffered the king not to touch Sarah !
Now, God, if He so desired could have held back Eve from touching or eating of that Tree that the serpent deceived her into eating from, but God did not because for her to eat and her husband to eat from it served His Purpose in Christ !
Now who shall deny that God could have done the same unto Adam and Eve as He did to that King ? I challenge anyone to deny it.
But God's Purpose for decreeing Adam's sin, so that man in him would surely die, was for His Greater Glory in and through the Lord Jesus Christ, for this World was Created because of Him !55
Col 1:14-17
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
This world, and all things therein, to include Adam [and offspring in him], Eve, the serpent [his offspring in him Gen 3:15] at Creation, were made for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus , an Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
All things were by Him as the medium of Creation and because of Him for His Redemptive Purpose Vs 14.
Adam dying and the elect men in Him was purposed by God for His Glory through Jesus Christ. Remember God told Adam this Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God already from eternity knew Adam and his offspring in him were going to die, and in fact He was informing him of the same, for it was an inevitable event to happen.
Now we must understand that if God did not want Adam and his offspring in him to sin and justly die , God could have prevented it and kept him back from sinning against Him as hereGen 20:6
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
The word witheld means:
to withhold, restrain, hold back, keep in check, refrain
And God suffered the king not to touch Sarah !
Now, God, if He so desired could have held back Eve from touching or eating of that Tree that the serpent deceived her into eating from, but God did not because for her to eat and her husband to eat from it served His Purpose in Christ !
Now who shall deny that God could have done the same unto Adam and Eve as He did to that King ? I challenge anyone to deny it.
But God's Purpose for decreeing Adam's sin, so that man in him would surely die, was for His Greater Glory in and through the Lord Jesus Christ, for this World was Created because of Him !55