The Fall of Evangelism: Rise of Relativism

[NiceneCreed]

It has become apparent the majority of churches -- at least within my local community -- use little of their resources to evangelize locally. Protestantism has seen a rapid decline of 5% in church attendance per decade, since the 1950's, and of the approximately 75% of Americans claiming to be Christian, many don't have the slightest knowledge of anything contained in the Bible and even fewer attend church. Many people I have personally come across claiming to be Christian, generally have relativistic views regarding life and God. Sadly, many of these "so-called" Christians falsely believe Jesus is not the only way to eternal salvation; indeed, many are accepting of other religions (e.g., Islam, Wicca, Satanism, etc.).


While many pastors (including my own) are aware of the serious nature of the problems attributing to the fall of the church, few of them even care to evangelize within their own communities. My church's annual budget is upwards of $250,000, and of that close to a quarter of a million dollars, only $2,000 -$5,000 is spent on evangelism. However, a substantial portion of the church budget is spent on decorations for holiday events, which usually only attract church members to begin with, as my church is weary of outsiders.


I am going to anger many people by posting this, but for the life of me, I can't stay silent about this issue any longer. I feel the decline in church attendance is not attributed to secular society, but, instead, is attributed to the church itself.

Am I like the Pharisees for feeling this way? Does anyone else have similar stories to share?

 

[Mammachickadee]

It has become apparent the majority of churches -- at least within my local community -- use little of their resources to evangelize locally. Protestantism has seen a rapid decline of 5% in church attendance per decade, since the 1950's, and of the approximately 75% of Americans claiming to be Christian, many don't have the slightest knowledge of anything contained in the Bible and even fewer attend church. Many people I have personally come across claiming to be Christian, generally have relativistic views regarding life and God. Sadly, many of these "so-called" Christians falsely believe Jesus is not the only way to eternal salvation; indeed, many are accepting of other religions (e.g., Islam, Wicca, Satanism, etc.).


While many pastors (including my own) are aware of the serious nature of the problems attributing to the fall of the church, few of them even care to evangelize within their own communities. My church's annual budget is upwards of $250,000, and of that close to a quarter of a million dollars, only $2,000 -$5,000 is spent on evangelism. However, a substantial portion of the church budget is spent on decorations for holiday events, which usually only attract church members to begin with, as my church is weary of outsiders.


I am going to anger many people by posting this, but for the life of me, I can't stay silent about this issue any longer. I feel the decline in church attendance is not attributed to secular society, but, instead, is attributed to the church itself.

Am I like the Pharisees for feeling this way? Does anyone else have similar stories to share?

Would love to get your input on the feeds concerning 401C3 and Dispensationalist/Free undermining God's providence.
Ever noticed that a pastor will get a book allowance but the church will not support the local women's shelter or give more than a pittance to a missionary on deputation?

 

[NiceneCreed]

Would love to get your input on the feeds concerning 401C3 and Dispensationalist/Free undermining God's providence.
Ever noticed that a pastor will get a book allowance but the church will not support the local women's shelter or give more than a pittance to a missionary on deputation?

The majority of pastors I have personally known, are more concerned with allocating church money on things that don't expand the church. As far as Dispensationalism is concerned, James 1:27 states, "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Are we to assume God no longer wants for us to help the poor, even if it gives us the opportunity to fulfill the 'Great Commission?'


Thank you for your reply

God Bless!

 

[RedTent]

You make me bubble over with things I've been saying and more I want to say. Our church declines, and have you noticed that the Mormons and Muslims are gaining? Because when you become a Mormon or Muslim you must be disciplined. It changes your life. Become a Baptist, Lutheran, etc. and Ho Hum. It isn't God's discipline, but they want discipline and we don't have it.

My dear friend was a Mormon, and I did not stay quiet at all about it. She would listen quietly, sort of grunt once in awhile, and then tell me how much better they lived. They help each other, how they eat is affected, they have to live their religion. Tell an orthodox Christian that their Christianity would be enhanced by doing, give them scriptures to back it up, and WOW, you get an earful. I don't have to do one single thing, works get you nowhere, we aren't under law, it is only love and the Holy Spirit and love and the HS didn't tell me a thing about doing blah blah blah.

So we have watered down the power, the beauty of the Lord. It takes years to grow in the Lords our way, and some in our lukewarm churches never do grow up in the Lord.

We still have Constantine Christianity. When he made it a law to take out all the Jewishness of Christianity, to make it a brand new religion, it took out the God principles Christianity grew on. We read the NT without seeing how God principles must fit, even distorting scripture. When Peter and Paul fought to see that gentiles were taught about God instead of Jewish rituals as what the gospel was about, the gentiles grabbed on to that and redid it to say "do nothing about Christianity". They could keep pagan ways, just change the name of their God to Christ. Keep their holidays with a little change in them. They threw out the baby with the bathwater, except they kept Christ who, they said, was so loving and forgiving that most anything goes, just ask forgiveness. OK, I am exaggerating to make a point and I'll have to eat a lot of crow.

We need to work on what we have to offer. If we offer the beauty, the power, the glory of God that is more powerful than anything the world has to offer, they will come.

 

[GreenNnice]

The Lord leads.

Sometimes, parishioners are called to help out.

God's will is that we don't sit still, we move, that we do things when He wants us to, and, certainly, if your church has rotten fruit then you want to do something about it or John 15 will come true in YOUR church, nicenecreedagreed, and, that will be good growth, in the end, but the pruning of the branches by Him will be inexorably painful along the way to fruition again for your church. I would look into 1 Corinthians, where Paul speaks about prophesying and speaking in tongues and how those things can bring a church together. Maybe, it sounds like, your church needs a good dose of being 'slain in the
Spirit,' IF it's deteriorating from the outside in.

The Lord leads, but, to think, you can't do anything about your church's situation is not good. God does not want us to sit idle while sins go on and the sins of idleness may not in itself be sin but idle hands allow The Devil to work, Scripture tells us (Proverbs). And, work and complacency and indifference toward helping others in your church and outside your church like missions or street folk ministries is HOW God changes us all, through faith, just GOING into those kinds of situations so that He can work.

Ephesians 2:10 is quite clear. We are His workmanship, created to do good works, that He knew exactly what we best would do and be doing in our life before we were born.

YOU want to work, and, it sounds like, your bitterness toward your church, is simply God calling YOU to get off your duff and pray as you walk, don't wait, as you run, but not grow weary, as you WAIT on Him but move, move, move, NOW, as your own feelings and insecurities and perceptions of church will be tarnished lest you do not GO and faith-fully follow Him . Youi're a smart guy, I can tell, from your posts, you KNOW things, like church history, which I've gleaned from reading your other posts, not just this one

Sometimes when we think we are to 'go into all the world,' we get the WRONG idea, sometimes, God is wanting us to go to our own 'world,' our own circle of influence and do the 'baptizing' right there, in His name--the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost.

I am hoping and praying that God can bring your assembly of believers in the house He has you attending, that you've chosen of Him, by Him, from Him, because you are His. I am praying for your part in this, we ALL have a part, we are all one body but of many parts, just as 1 Corinthians 12 says. Pray to Him, wholeheartedly, find accountable friends in your church to help you, for bitterness leads to sin, to death, you know, what James says in his book written. Let the Lord lead you greatly in your ways to assuage your church in it's ways of ministry to others and in so doing it is also ministering and bringing truth and understanding to all of Him, too.

 

[Mammachickadee]

You make me bubble over with things I've been saying and more I want to say. Our church declines, and have you noticed that the Mormons and Muslims are gaining? Because when you become a Mormon or Muslim you must be disciplined. It changes your life. Become a Baptist, Lutheran, etc. and Ho Hum. It isn't God's discipline, but they want discipline and we don't have it.

My dear friend was a Mormon, and I did not stay quiet at all about it. She would listen quietly, sort of grunt once in awhile, and then tell me how much better they lived. They help each other, how they eat is affected, they have to live their religion. Tell an orthodox Christian that their Christianity would be enhanced by doing, give them scriptures to back it up, and WOW, you get an earful. I don't have to do one single thing, works get you nowhere, we aren't under law, it is only love and the Holy Spirit and love and the HS didn't tell me a thing about doing blah blah blah.

So we have watered down the power, the beauty of the Lord. It takes years to grow in the Lords our way, and some in our lukewarm churches never do grow up in the Lord.

We still have Constantine Christianity. When he made it a law to take out all the Jewishness of Christianity, to make it a brand new religion, it took out the God principles Christianity grew on. We read the NT without seeing how God principles must fit, even distorting scripture. When Peter and Paul fought to see that gentiles were taught about God instead of Jewish rituals as what the gospel was about, the gentiles grabbed on to that and redid it to say "do nothing about Christianity". They could keep pagan ways, just change the name of their God to Christ. Keep their holidays with a little change in them. They threw out the baby with the bathwater, except they kept Christ who, they said, was so loving and forgiving that most anything goes, just ask forgiveness. OK, I am exaggerating to make a point and I'll have to eat a lot of crow.

We need to work on what we have to offer. If we offer the beauty, the power, the glory of God that is more powerful than anything the world has to offer, they will come.

Yes all true. Also, Catholicism, Islam, and Mormonism all believe that everyone will go to heaven... time of which depends on their good works. It puts complete control into the hands of the creation instead of the creator.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

it was mentioned that there has been a 5% decline in protestant church attendance...however a little bit more detail can be helpful...

the decline in protestantism is almost entirely within the liberal 'mainline' denominations...especially the united methodist church...the presbyterian church USA...and the evangelical lutheran church in america...

some of the more conversative protestant denominations are actually growing...especially the southern baptist convention and the pentecostal assemblies of God...

pentecostalism in particular is probably the most rapidly growing denomination...due to their greater emphasis on evangelism...

 

[NiceneCreed]

You make me bubble over with things I've been saying and more I want to say. Our church declines, and have you noticed that the Mormons and Muslims are gaining? Because when you become a Mormon or Muslim you must be disciplined. It changes your life. Become a Baptist, Lutheran, etc. and Ho Hum. It isn't God's discipline, but they want discipline and we don't have it.

My dear friend was a Mormon, and I did not stay quiet at all about it. She would listen quietly, sort of grunt once in awhile, and then tell me how much better they lived. They help each other, how they eat is affected, they have to live their religion. Tell an orthodox Christian that their Christianity would be enhanced by doing, give them scriptures to back it up, and WOW, you get an earful. I don't have to do one single thing, works get you nowhere, we aren't under law, it is only love and the Holy Spirit and love and the HS didn't tell me a thing about doing blah blah blah.

So we have watered down the power, the beauty of the Lord. It takes years to grow in the Lords our way, and some in our lukewarm churches never do grow up in the Lord.

We still have Constantine Christianity. When he made it a law to take out all the Jewishness of Christianity, to make it a brand new religion, it took out the God principles Christianity grew on. We read the NT without seeing how God principles must fit, even distorting scripture. When Peter and Paul fought to see that gentiles were taught about God instead of Jewish rituals as what the gospel was about, the gentiles grabbed on to that and redid it to say "do nothing about Christianity". They could keep pagan ways, just change the name of their God to Christ. Keep their holidays with a little change in them. They threw out the baby with the bathwater, except they kept Christ who, they said, was so loving and forgiving that most anything goes, just ask forgiveness. OK, I am exaggerating to make a point and I'll have to eat a lot of crow.

We need to work on what we have to offer. If we offer the beauty, the power, the glory of God that is more powerful than anything the world has to offer, they will come.

I agree and would just like to add, as Christians, we are representatives of Christ. If the works of Christ are not reflected in our actions, don't people begin to question whether or not we really believe in what it is we advocate? I am not claiming people who do not evangelize have no faith, but it is difficult for people to see the beauty and power of God when we do not talk with them about the love of Jesus Christ. Also, we should first be showing them the love of Christ with our actions.

 

[Angela53510]

My church has a missions budget of over $250,000. But it is only for missions that are not in our community and they are not answerable for the way the money is spent to the deacons, elders or church members.

All of that money is spent on far-away places. Now some of these are very good ministries, including a ministry to prostitutes in the city next to ours, to poor people in that same city, and to overseas missions.

As far as our own community, I am on the committee to evangelize locally. We have a budget of $10,000 which we need to account for every penny to the deacons and elders, even though the assistant pastor sits on the committee and is very involved in helping and evangelism, as well as apologetics.

We did a survey of the community of the needs, and it dove-tailed with the survey of the local city council. Helping seniors, the mentally ill, immigrants who were brought in to the city to work, and being robbed by the people who brought them in, etc, etc.

They refused to let me do a community faith based depression support group in the church, even though it would have cost nothing. They fought an after school day care for a year, and when it was approved, the day care had given up.

All of these projects would have brought people into the church, exposed them to the gospel in various ways. Our Ladies Morning Out run by women only, regularly brings many women to faith in Christ through outreach ministries. Of course, the elders and deacons are not in charge of this group.

So yes, the church does not seem to care much about the the lost. God is the one who saves, but God also tells us clearly in his word we are to preach the gospel. If we fail, we have failed the last command of Christ - the great commission found in Matt 28:18-20 and Acts 1:8.

Acts and the Epistles are the stories of the gospel reaching out into all the world. There are many locally and abroad who have never heard the good news. I attended a wedding this weekend, and there was not a word about God, and the meal had no blessing. It broke my heart - esp. since it was the daughter of a friend who believes that teaching and preaching the Word is his life's work.

I wish we could get posts here into the 100's about the way the church is failing to reach the world. There was a time in western society when church was a given. Even people without faith had a knowledge of the Bible. Now, it seems as though it is rare even to find Christians who have read the Bible, let alone follow it.

I pray that the church will wake up and realize that we are God's plan to take the gospel to the lost. Before it is too late!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The majority of pastors I have personally known, are more concerned with allocating church money on things that don't expand the church.

in response to this thought i will just advise caution on putting too much emphasis on 'expanding the church'...lots of churches expand their membership rolls through various promotional gimmicks without actually -making disciples- of their members...

 

[NiceneCreed]

it was mentioned that there has been a 5% decline in protestant church attendance...however a little bit more detail can be helpful...

the decline in protestantism is almost entirely within the liberal 'mainline' denominations...especially the united methodist church...the presbyterian church USA...and the evangelical lutheran church in america...

some of the more conversative protestant denominations are actually growing...especially the southern baptist convention and the pentecostal assemblies of God...

pentecostalism in particular is probably the most rapidly growing denomination...due to their greater emphasis on evangelism...

I have heard that some denominations are growing, but I have my reasons to believe the numbers reflecting growth in the majority of churches in America are being fudged.

 

[NiceneCreed]

in response to this thought i will just advise caution on putting too much emphasis on 'expanding the church'...lots of churches expand their membership rolls through various promotional gimmicks without actually -making disciples- of their members...

Some churches don't have enough disciples to start with, due to their shrinking sizes.

 

[Nancyer]

Has anyone here ever been part of a good old fashioned revival? We talked about these earlier this year during a Bible study on God in America (the history of Christianity in this country) and it was mentioned we should do one in the parking lot, but that's as far as it got. Are these successful anymore or are most people leery of them as "healing scams" or something? I would love to help organize one for my church if I knew what was involved.

 

[Mammachickadee]

Has anyone here ever been part of a good old fashioned revival? We talked about these earlier this year during a Bible study on God in America (the history of Christianity in this country) and it was mentioned we should do one in the parking lot, but that's as far as it got. Are these successful anymore or are most people leery of them as "healing scams" or something? I would love to help organize one for my church if I knew what was involved.

Usually daily meetings in the evening filled with song and preaching from a guest speaker or evangelist. Some churches still have choir performance for them. Often prayer meetings are held beforehand.

 

[NiceneCreed]

Has anyone here ever been part of a good old fashioned revival? We talked about these earlier this year during a Bible study on God in America (the history of Christianity in this country) and it was mentioned we should do one in the parking lot, but that's as far as it got. Are these successful anymore or are most people leery of them as "healing scams" or something? I would love to help organize one for my church if I knew what was involved.

I really don't know everything that would be required to even organize such an event, although, I would think you would have to have some type of permit. But it sounds like you have a great idea! I only pray there are more people within your church who are just as enthusiastic as you are.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Has anyone here ever been part of a good old fashioned revival? We talked about these earlier this year during a Bible study on God in America (the history of Christianity in this country) and it was mentioned we should do one in the parking lot, but that's as far as it got. Are these successful anymore or are most people leery of them as "healing scams" or something? I would love to help organize one for my church if I knew what was involved.

i am not sure if that is even the kind of 'revival' american christianity needs nowdays...

given the huge percentage of professing christians who don't believe basic christian doctrine...i think the revival we actually need is for people to start studying their bibles again...

 

[NiceneCreed]

Is it just me, or does it seem as if this thread is not attracting a lot of male cc members?

Luke 19:40

Luke 19:40

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is it just me, or does it seem as if this thread is not attracting a lot of male cc members?

Enjoy the company. Some really smart ladies...

 

[NiceneCreed]

Enjoy the company. Some really smart ladies...

No doubt about it.

 

[Angela53510]

Has anyone here ever been part of a good old fashioned revival? We talked about these earlier this year during a Bible study on God in America (the history of Christianity in this country) and it was mentioned we should do one in the parking lot, but that's as far as it got. Are these successful anymore or are most people leery of them as "healing scams" or something? I would love to help organize one for my church if I knew what was involved.

I was saved in a revival. But it was not meetings, or healings or any kind of church related endeavour. It was one man who got amazingly saved from sin and God just changed him into an evangelist. He gave out tracks on a ferry to every single person who rode it. He gave his testimony to anyone who would listen. And people listened!

Gradually, more and more people started getting saved. It was frightening to me. I knew that they knew what they believed was true, but I did not believe in this man called Jesus!

Soon, you couldn't turn around without someone giving you the gospel message, a testimony or a tract. So I started reading the Bible, and begged God to show me if he was real.

God answered!! He let me know not only that he was real, but that I was to follow him.

So that is a real revival. It is not staged, it is a result of the prayers of God's people and witnessing in Word, thought and deed! It spread like wild fire.

Eventually a church was birthed out of the revival, in an area of cults, Hindu ashrams and Buddhists retreats. I never had the privilege of attending that church, because God moved me onto a new area.

A revival is not meetings! It is a gospel message that spreads like wild fire, and souls hungry for God finding him and be changed into new people in Christ!