The false claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority ...

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May 21, 2009
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#41
The False Claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine

"Sola Scriptura: The Proof-Texts

"Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matt. 22:29 KJV).

"It is evident that the Protestant principle of sola Scriptura entails much more than a mere affirmation of the authority of the Bible. It is, in fact, a complex of interrelated ideas and assumptions. When Protestants read the Scriptures, they bring these assumptions with them, whether they realize it or not.
"For those reared, as I was, in an Evangelical milieu, passages such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and other texts mentioned below "obviously" support the doctrine of sola Scriptura. The "self-evidence" of this support, however, is due not to the text istelf, but to the assumptions that one brings to it. If one takes one's Bible, consisting of exactly 66 books -- no more, no less -- and opens it with the a priori assumption that the text is self-authenticating and self-interpreting and that Christian faith itself is capable of being reduced to verbal formulae, then one will find in the text exactly what one expects to find there.
"The truth of the matter is -- and this is an irksome truth for Evangelicals to confront -- that the doctrine of sola Scriptura is not scriptural. In other words, the claim that the Bible is the sole source of authority for Christian life and doctrine is not found in the Bible. It is analogous to saying, "It is absolutely true that there is no such thing as absolute truth." To understand this, we must carefully examine those texts that are usually offered as proof of the doctrine of sola Scriptura. ...." [pages 120-121: THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church. by Clark Carlton. Salisbury, MA: Regina Orthodox Press, 1997.
Regina Orthodox Press Online Store

God bless you. Amen.

In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington




  1. Psalm 95:7
    For He is our God and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand. Today, if you will hear His voice,
    Psalm 95:6-8 (in Context) Psalm 95 (Whole Chapter)
  2. John 10:27
    The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
    John 10:26-28 (in Context) John 10 (Whole Chapter)


  1. 1 Corinthians 2:14
    But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
    1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2 (Whole Chapter)
  2. 1 Thessalonians 5:20
    Do not spurn the gifts and utterances of the prophets [do not depreciate prophetic revelations nor despise inspired instruction or exhortation or warning].
    1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 5 (Whole Chapter)



 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#42
Ya the APOSTLES tradition which is the SAME as what is written in the Gospels.

Not the tradition of pharisaical temple cults like the RCC and EOC.
So now you don't live in Namibia or Turkey either? What about Romans 13? We're called to love not the world, nor the things which are in the world, but we're called to fear God, honor (pray for) the king, and be subject unto government (Romans 13). Do you hate your native land (whatever it is) so much you're ashamed to say what it is? Or afraid? I'm not afraid nor ashamed to be an American. God bless America, land that I love. Stand beside her, and guide her, through the night, with a Light from Above!
Every person should love their own native land.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#44
Dear zone,
Just look what Strangelove does in another thread regarding tree of life versus book of life in Revelation 22:19.

He says, "I think it (Rev. 22:19) means ..."

A subjective approach, starting with this little, problem word, "I".

The true Biblical Orthodox Christian approach is in Acts 8:30-31. Understandeth what thou readest? How can I except some man guide me? We shouldn't try to "guide ourselves". We need men of God to guide us.
Men in the apostolic succession of the One Holy Church.
Protestants don't care much what the Holy Fathers, the Church Fathers say. They care more for "What Luther says" or "What Calvin says", what "The Protestant Reformers" say. Even they do not really follow "sola Scriptura". They follow their own Reformed traditions.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington ?

..........................................


you don't know what Reformed believe since you aren't one.
maybe i'm not your stereotypical Reformed believer Scott.

many of us aren't.

Reformed
Covenant
Amillennial
Cessationist

now which of those 4 things do you disagree with....really?

(i know more about what the EO guys said than what Calvin said btw....never read a single piece by Calvin. listened to Calvinist sermons tho)
 
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S

Scotth1960

Guest
#45
Dear zone,
Just look what Strangelove does in another thread regarding tree of life versus book of life in Revelation 22:19.

He says, "I think it (Rev. 22:19) means ..."

A subjective approach, starting with this little, problem word, "I".

The true Biblical Orthodox Christian approach is in Acts 8:30-31. Understandeth what thou readest? How can I except some man guide me? We shouldn't try to "guide ourselves". We need men of God to guide us.
Men in the apostolic succession of the One Holy Church.
Protestants don't care much what the Holy Fathers, the Church Fathers say. They care more for "What Luther says" or "What Calvin says", what "The Protestant Reformers" say. Even they do not really follow "sola Scriptura". They follow their own Reformed traditions.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington ?

..........................................


you don't know what Reformed believe since you aren't one.
maybe i'm not your stereotypical Reformed believer Scott.

many of us aren't.

Reformed
Covenant
Amillennial
Cessationist

now which of those 4 things do you disagree with....really?

(i know more about what the EO guys said than what Calvin said btw....never read a single piece by Calvin. listened to Calvinist sermons tho)
So, if you don't believe in Calvin's words, you aren't really Reformed. Reformed means Calvinist.
Reformed can mean either Calvinist or Lutheran. But it usually means only Calvinist. Lutherans are Reformed in the sense of Lutheran Reformation. It's more a matter of semantics than substance. Lutherans and Calvinists believe in 95 percent of the same Protestant doctrine. Except Reformed believe in double predestination, and don't, most of them, believe in bishops. Though there are Reformed Anglicans and Episcopalians.
The important thing is to be a mere Christian.
If our distinctives don't agree with what the Bible really means, we should give up being Reformed.
I do know what the Reformed believe, which is why I can't be Reformed.
I do know what I believed and practiced as a Lutherans, though I can't say all Lutherans did and said what I did and said, to be totally fair and just.
I sinned. It's my own fault.
God save us.
It's still probably true we know more about Protestant tradition(s) than we do about the Church Fathers or the EOC. I'm just beginning to learn what the EOC DOES teach; and what She does NOT teach. She doesn't teach double predestination, which is good enough for me to reject it.
 
N

Nalu

Guest
#46
Second Timothy chapter 3, verses 10 through 17.

Titus chapter 1, verses 10 through 16.

Colossians chapter 2, verses 1 through 10.

I say the the Bible, and the Bible alone is the sole source. Men's, views are apt to change, as oral tradition's are passed along from one person to another they are constantly revised. I like to say, diluted and polluted.

If you are approached but false pastor slick willie two tone or fake sister mary wanna be teaching the gospel according to them, and it does not line up with your'e Bible, run don't walk.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#47
Second Timothy chapter 3, verses 10 through 17.

Titus chapter 1, verses 10 through 16.

Colossians chapter 2, verses 1 through 10.

I say the the Bible, and the Bible alone is the sole source. Men's, views are apt to change, as oral tradition's are passed along from one person to another they are constantly revised. I like to say, diluted and polluted.

If you are approached but false pastor slick willie two tone or fake sister mary wanna be teaching the gospel according to them, and it does not line up with your'e Bible, run don't walk.
Dear friend,
The Bible alone according to which Church, which tradition? Who preaches the true Gospel?
If the Bible alone is the sole source, then 2 Thessalonians 2:15 is false, and then this verse in the Bible is false. If this verse in the Bible is false, then the whole Bible could be false. You are falsifying 2 Thessalons 2:15 by claiming the Bible alone. The Bible itself does not say Christians can would or should go "by the Bible alone". No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, and if you go by "the Bible alone", you interpret it according to your own private interpretation. What about Holy Tradition received from the 12 apostles and 70 disciples of Christ mentioned in the Bible, and also St. Paul, who was not one of the 12?
God bless you.
Scott Harrington PS 2 Thessalonians 2:15 proves sola Scriptura is false!
 
N

Nalu

Guest
#48
Dear friend,
The Bible alone according to which Church, which tradition? Who preaches the true Gospel?
If the Bible alone is the sole source, then 2 Thessalonians 2:15 is false, and then this verse in the Bible is false. If this verse in the Bible is false, then the whole Bible could be false. You are falsifying 2 Thessalons 2:15 by claiming the Bible alone. The Bible itself does not say Christians can would or should go "by the Bible alone". No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, and if you go by "the Bible alone", you interpret it according to your own private interpretation. What about Holy Tradition received from the 12 apostles and 70 disciples of Christ mentioned in the Bible, and also St. Paul, who was not one of the 12?
God bless you.
Scott Harrington PS 2 Thessalonians 2:15 proves sola Scriptura is false!
Blah blah blah blah blah, (breathes deeply and pauses) blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#49
"With its unsophisticated teachings on Scriptural inerrancy and infallibility, Evangelical bibliology is a witless and unwitting idolization of the Christian Scriptures. Saint Hilarion the New Hieromartyr compares the Protestant attitude toward the Bible to the backward superstitions of Mohammedahism: "When people take the Gospel book, forgetting that the Church gave it to them, then it becomes like the Koran, said to have been dropped by Allah from the sky." (Holy New-Martyr Archishop Ilarion (Troitsky), Christianity or the Church? (Jordanville, NY: Holy Trinity Monastery, 1985), p. 35.). Truly the Scriptures were produced by the Energy of the Holy Sprit, for all Scripture is given by inspiration of God. (II St. Timothy 3:16.). But not only did the Spirit of God inspire the Holy Prophets and the Holy Apostles to author the various books of the Bible; He also inspired the Holy Fathers to canonize the Holy Scriptures, and He continuously inspires the Holy Church to interpret them for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. (Ibid.). Saint Ignatios of Caucasus sumarizes this plainly:
... [T]he rules of the Church require that Scripture be understood oas the holy Fathers explain it, and not at all arbitrarily. By being guided in our understanding of the Gospel by the explanation of the holy Father, by the explanation received and used by the Church, we keep the tradition of [the] holy Church. [Bishop Ignatius (Brianchaninov), The Arena: An Offering to Contemporary Monasticism, trans. Archimandrite Lazarus, with an introduction by Archimandrite [Bishop] Kallistos (Jordanville, NY: Holy Trinity Monastery, 1982), p. 21.].
"For Evangelicals, consulting the Patristic witness is optional; for Orthodox, hwoever, it is imperative. The edifying exchange which took place between Saint Philip the Apostle and Saint Saint Djan Darada, the eunuch of Queen Candace of Ethiopia, serves as a pattern for the spiritual dependency which Orthodox have for the Holy Fathers. As the Apostle Philip catechized the Ethiopian eunuch, so did the Fathers instuct their disciples in Biblical exegesis, for they read in the book of the Law of God distinctly and gave the sense, and cause them to understand the reding. (Nehemiah 8:8.). To this day the Fathers ask of one reading the words of Scripture, "Understandest thou what thou readest?" (Acts 8:30.). An Orthodox Christian must respond to this paternal question with humbleness: "How can I, except some man should guide me?" (Ibid., v. 31.). An Evangelical, on the other hand, responds to it with haughtiness: "I myself possess the Holy Spirit; therefore I can understand what I read in the Bible without your guidance."
"In contrast to Evangelical arrogance, Saint Irenaeus of Lyonds indicates that "... where the Church is, there is the Spirit of God; and where the Spirit is, there is the Church, and every kind of grace. ..." [ [St.] Irenaeus, "Irenaeus Against Heresies," ed. the Rev. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, in Vol. 1 of The Ante-Nicene Fathers, American ed., rev. A. Cleveland Coce (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1885), p. 458.]. Without the Church an individual cannot possess the Spirit of God or receive His illuminating Grace, and therefore cannot properly understand the Holy Scriptures, for no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. (II St. Peter 1:20.). Evangelicals pertinaciously ignore the Biblical maxim by adamantly advocating the self-sufficiency of Scripture, which in practice translates into a self-reliant interpretation of the Bible according to their own understanding. (Hosea 13:2.). Thus they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts ... heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. (II St. Timothy 4:3.). Exercising personal prerogative in interpreting the Scriptures, as Evangelicals do is a disastrous pitfall, for in the Holy Bible are some things had to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest ... unto their own destfuction." (II St. Peter 3:16.)". [pp. 17-19: Hierodeacon Gregory. (1994). THE CHURCH, TRADITION, SCRIPTURE, TRUTH, AND CHRISTIAN LIFE: Some Heresies of Evangelicalism and an Orthodox Response. Etna, CA: Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies.].

God bless you Elizabeth(619). Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington August 2011 AD



Scott, I love you but I am NOT reading all of that. I have the attention span of a squirrel.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#50
Blah blah blah blah blah, (breathes deeply and pauses) blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
Blah is not a word. Please return only when you are capable of logical, coherent thought. God bless you.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#52
My dearest Scott,
It may be in your best interest to stay out of the South. We make up our own words down hea!

Love,
Beth

P.S.
BLAH is a word in Tennessee :D
 
N

Nalu

Guest
#54
Blah blah blah blah blah, (breathes deeply and pauses) blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
I would like to clarify my remarks, removes glasses for dramatic effect.

Charlie Browns teacher would sound the same way to poor mister Brown, I felt a certain connection with the young Charlie Brown, and this inspired me to do this.

I agree it was silly, childish and uncalled for. I cannot say with 100 percent confidence that it will not ever happen again.

I will try to control my unbridled enthusiasm in the future.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#55
Why do I need anything other than Gods Word as proof?
Because if what you teach was so evidently clear in the scriptures we would all be protestants. Since we're not, your going to need to do more than claim that "My teachings align with the Bible(debatable), therefore the Early Church must have believed as I do". But if your teachings were around before the reformation you should be able to find them taught somewhere early on in the historical record of the church.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#56
Why do I need anything other than Gods Word as proof?
Because 2 Thessalonians 2:15 says you need the oral words, spoken words, and oral, unwritten traditions of the Apostles, besides the Bible alone. Without oral Apostolic Tradition, (2 Thess. 2:15), you can't rightly interpret the Bible; without the Church, which is the pillar of Truth, you can't know what the Bible means; and the gates of hell (mouths of heretics) won't prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15).
 
S

systemdown101

Guest
#57
My dearest Scott,
It may be in your best interest to stay out of the South. We make up our own words down hea!

Love,
Beth

P.S.
BLAH is a word in Tennessee :D
Okay, I really have to ask ...

"Y'all" ... do Language Arts/English teachers teach that where you are?
 
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
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#58
I would like to clarify my remarks, removes glasses for dramatic effect.

Charlie Browns teacher would sound the same way to poor mister Brown, I felt a certain connection with the young Charlie Brown, and this inspired me to do this.

I agree it was silly, childish and uncalled for. I cannot say with 100 percent confidence that it will not ever happen again.

I will try to control my unbridled enthusiasm in the future.
I love when people make me laugh!

 
May 21, 2009
3,955
25
0
#59
No one and mean no one gets to cut the Holy Spirit out. He talks and he is alive in his people.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#60
My dearest Scott,
It may be in your best interest to stay out of the South. We make up our own words down hea!

Love,
Beth

P.S.
BLAH is a word in Tennessee :D
Dear Elizabeth, The South also had slavery.
Thanks to the blood of the holy men of the North, the South lost. And slavery was defeated.
America was a great evil place in the South. Lincoln rightly said that a house divided itself cannot stand. African Americans have suffered much because of Southern white bigotry. I gather that in Northern regions, Northerners must fight against prejudice and treat all people fairly. But there is some good in the South, and I gather the South has learned its lesson.
Southern slavery?
This happened in Protestantism or maybe also in Catholicism, as this was not a phenomenon of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Protestant Churches are still divided upon racial lines. It's a a great sin.
In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington