The Fullness of the Gentiles

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doulos

Guest
#41
At the time Paul wrote Romans he was still taking the gospel
to places for the first time where the effect of the gentiles
was strong. And jews and gentiles were rather unfriendly still.
The gospel is stii being spread today. Like I sadi if it meant the full blessings were poured out on the church then it would have been fulfilled when Christ rebuilt the temple in three days or at Pentecost at the latest, not sometime around 70AD as some insist. So why was Paul writing about it 20+ years as something that was still future?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#42
As I have already pointed out if plemora is to be used in the manner you suggest, then the fullness would have either occurred when Christ rebuilt the temple in 3 day's or at the latest pentecost. So why was Paul wrriting about this as a future event some 20+ years after the fact?
IT HAPPENED AS FAR AS GOD IS CONCERNED ON THE CROSS!

The Gospel was to go to the JEWS first! according to the Promise - made to THEM > see DANIEL 9.

and it did. < see Joel & 2 Acts 2

Paul didn't speak of it as a future event.

he was preaching as he received REVELATION! no Bible yet!

he spoke of it as part of THE PLAN. - mysteries! being revealed TO HIM. we know them now!

all this obsession with ONE VERSE in Romans 9 - like SATAN didn't know how to use it.
oh how easy it was.

just keep 'em in the OT, keep 'em fixated on one chapter, trying to match it to Talmudic Judaism's Millennialism and their dupe Scofield.

keep 'em watching Prophecy club and LaHaye and pretending they don't.
keep 'em listening to false teachers like Ellis Skolfield who ANYBODY can uncover as such in one week!
keep 'em in Daniel and Revelation and talk about dragons and chains and China and Menachem Begin.

pull off 9-11 and blame it arabs and call it PROPHECY! because we want to RESTART what was already Fulfilled even though we are Pharisees who practice the very religion Jesus (who we hate) condemned.

we don't WANT THE GOSPEL. we want THE LAND.
and we have to find a way to get it. oh! let's create a CULT of Dispensationalism which will just have Christians (jews and gentiles) hand over their inheritance to US!

we'll just pretend Genesis 12 says God will CURSE THEM IF THEY DON'T DO ALL THE WORK FOR US.

use words antisemitic and replacement theology and conspiracy theory a lot.
talk about Nazis and everything BUT JESUS CHRIST CRUCIFIED FOR THE JEWS 2000 YEARS AGO!

NEVER encourage them to read the Gospel and Epistles where the truth is.

Romans 3
God’s Righteousness Upheld

1Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? 2Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? 4By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written,

“That you may be justified in your words,
and prevail when you are judged.”

5But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6By no means! For then how could God judge the world? 7But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? 8And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

No One Is Righteous
9What then? Are we Jewsa any better off?b No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20For by works of the law no human beingc will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

The Righteousness of God Through Faith
21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#43
are you serious? Paul DIED before the temple was destroyed. he was preaching there in Acts and then gets sent to Rome to his death.........most people date his death around 67 AD.
 
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doulos

Guest
#44
IT HAPPENED AS FAR AS GOD IS CONCERNED ON THE CROSS!
So now it didn't happen in 57AD as you said earlier? Or did I misunderstand you? If the fullness of the gentiles came in at the cross then why 20+ years later was Paul whose words were inspired by God referring to it as a future event?

As for the rest of your post let's stick to the subject and deal with one issue at a time.
 
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doulos

Guest
#45
are you serious? Paul DIED before the temple was destroyed. he was preaching there in Acts and then gets sent to Rome to his death.........most people date his death around 67 AD.
Slow down and take the time to comprehend the message people are trying to convey. Lets have a look at what I said.
"The gospel is stiil being spread today. Like I sadi if it meant the full blessings were poured out on the church then it would have been fulfilled when Christ rebuilt the temple in three days or at Pentecost at the latest, not sometime around 70AD as some insist. So why was Paul writing about it 20+ years as something that was still future?"

As I said if it was the blessings being poured out on the church it would have to have been when Christ rebuilt the temple or at the lastest Pentecost, not 70AD. I am not suggesting Paul wrote 20+ years after 70AD, but instead 20+ years after the blessings were poured out which occured when Christ rebuilt the temple in 3 days or at the latest Pentecost. Sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to convey.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
My point was that there will be a time when the full number of gentiles does come to the Lord. Otherwise the fulness would never occur and the earth would have to go into eternity.
That is only if your interpretation is what it means. No place in scripture (old or new) does it ever say there will be a time when the last gentile will be saved and thus something happens because of it.. Thus this interpretation falls apart when it comes to scripture.

However, Scripture does speek of a time, when Gentiles were told to have control, over jerusalem, israel and the world. At the end of that AGE (the age spoken of by Jesus and the disciples in matt 24) That gentile dominion will be destroyed by Christ.

It also fulfills Dan 9, 2 and 7. at which time, All Isreal will be saved (Dan 9, Rom 11)

prophesy must be taken together, not just one section. It all goes together!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
/. Fullness = fulfillment of Scripture.....as shown by the other uses of the word in Greek.....the destruction of the temple in 70 Ad fulfilled a lot of the prophecies Jesus and His disciples spoke of and most believe that all of the NT was written BEFORE its destruction.

Actually it only fulfilled one prophesy. The one by Jesus, It was a partial fulfimnent of another (dan 9)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#48
So now it didn't happen in 57AD as you said earlier? Or did I misunderstand you? If the fullness of the gentiles came in at the cross then why 20+ years later was Paul whose words were inspired by God referring to it as a future event?

As for the rest of your post let's stick to the subject and deal with one issue at a time.
doulos
you go back and read.
i'm not writing to you, i'm against you.
i'm defending the Gospel as you and your friend try to overthrow it.
you're on your own.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#49
I think the text explains itself.

As long as their is a partial blindness to the nation of Isreal. the fullness of the gentiles has not yet come.. Does not get any clearer than this.
ya...clear as mud EG.
your brand is just a modification of what they teach.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#50
Or we could say so long as the fullness of the gentiles has not come in part of Irael will remain sovereignly blinded.
sovereignly blinded?

for their preservation as Old Testament Wineskin Jews who would perish if they had New Wine Poured into them?

is that what you mean?

THAT heresy?
 
Jan 8, 2013
114
7
0
#51
It will be a great and notable day when the fulness of the Gentiles has arrived. Then the Lord will be satisfied because all that make up the church will have come in, both of the Jews and of the Gentiles, and our head, Christ, will have a full body to make up his bride. May that day come soon and come quickly that we might all be taken up into glory to ever be with the Lord.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#52
It will be a great and notable day when the fulness of the Gentiles has arrived. Then the Lord will be satisfied because all that make up the church will have come in, both of the Jews and of the Gentiles, and our head, Christ, will have a full body to make up his bride. May that day come soon and come quickly that we might all be taken up into glory to ever be with the Lord.

nah, it will not be full yet.. There will be many saved after this time. Paul says it is then that the partial blindness of Isreal will be removed. and a whole nation will be saved, (as well as many gentiles with them, as God uses this to prove to the nations he is God by fulfilling prophesy)

many more will be added as his bride after this time.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#53
That gentile dominion will be destroyed by Christ.
THE PROPHECY:

Daniel 2:34
While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron [Rome/Pilate/Caesar] and clay and smashed them.

THE FULFILLMENT (one of so MANY about JESUS CHRIST The Corner Stone....how can anyone just brush this away):

Matthew 21
The Triumphal Entry
1Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” 4This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5 “Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
anda on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”

6The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. 7They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them. 8Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. 9And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!” 10And when he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, “Who is this?” 11And the crowds said, “This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.”

Jesus Cleanses the Temple
12And Jesus entered the templeb and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. 13He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.”

14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. 15But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, 16and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,

“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”

17And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
18In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. 19And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.

20When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” 21And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

The Authority of Jesus Challenged
23And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching, and said, “By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” 24Jesus answered them, “I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25The baptism of John, from where did it come? From heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26But if we say, ‘From man,’ we are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was a prophet.” 27So they answered Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

The Parable of the Two Sons
28“What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ 29And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. 30And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. 31Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.

The Parable of the Tenants
33“Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country. 34When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servantsc to the tenants to get his fruit. 35And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them. 37Finally he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.’ 39And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?


43Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. 46And although they were seeking to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because they held him to be a prophet.





 
D

doulos

Guest
#54
??? it was fulfilled in 70 AD when the Jews were judged and the earthly temple, the one spoken of in the verses Below was destroyed.....<really wish my enter key was fixed>
Hate it when keyboards don’t work right I can sympathise
.
How was it fulfilled in 70AD. If plemora means the blessings being poured out on the church that occurred with the crucifixion and resurrection or at the latest Pentecost. 70AD has absolutely nothing to do with the blesssings being poured out on the church. If it means the full number of gentiles to come in then once again 70AD fails as gentiles are still coming to the Lord today.

So if it means blessings poured out on the church which occurred at the latest Pentecost why was Paul referring to it as a future event 20+ years after Pentecost?


...........Galatians 4. the Jerusalem of NOW was destroyed as was the first covenant made void
Didn’t God say His covenant was everlasting? For it to be void means ended woulded that make God a liar? Are you serious?

now there is only the eternal covenant and the Heavenly Jerusalem until Christ makes a NEW Heaven and a NEW Earth after the destruction of the current one.................Jesus mediated a NEW covenant............Hebrews 8 the FIRST covenant vanished with the destruction of the temple
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Making the first old is not merging it with the new. While it is true it waxeth away and is ready to vanish it hasn’’t yet or it would not be an eternal covenat.


no more animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins. NOW as in TODAY we have only the blood of Jesus to cleanse people, as a propitiation of sins, who died for the remission of sins........
It has never been about animal sacrifices regardless of whether one lived pre or post crucifixion and resurection it has always been about the shed blood of Christ, the prefect and only acceptable sacrifice.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1Co 10:1 -4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea ; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The Old testament saints were not saved by sacrifices but by faith in Christ!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
THE PROPHECY:

Daniel 2:34
While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron [Rome/Pilate/Caesar] and clay and smashed them.

THE FULFILLMENT:

Matthew 21
The Triumphal Entry
1Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” 4This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5 “Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
anda on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”

6The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. 7They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them. 8Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. 9And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!” 10And when he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, “Who is this?” 11And the crowds said, “This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.”

Jesus Cleanses the Temple
12And Jesus entered the templeb and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. 13He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.”

14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them. 15But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, 16and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read,

“‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies
you have prepared praise’?”

17And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
18In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. 19And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.

20When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” 21And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

The Authority of Jesus Challenged
23And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him as he was teaching, and said, “By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?” 24Jesus answered them, “I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25The baptism of John, from where did it come? From heaven or from man?” And they discussed it among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26But if we say, ‘From man,’ we are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was a prophet.” 27So they answered Jesus, “We do not know.” And he said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

The Parable of the Two Sons
28“What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ 29And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. 30And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. 31Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.

The Parable of the Tenants
33“Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower and leased it to tenants, and went into another country. 34When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servantsc to the tenants to get his fruit. 35And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them. 37Finally he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.’ 39And they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?


43Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. 46And although they were seeking to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because they held him to be a prophet.





Zone I already reported you last post. You told me to leave you alone.


stop posting to me.
i know what you believe.
it deserves to be mocked.
at the core it's heresy.

k?
And numerous other times!

Now you do the same! or I will keep reporting every post you make with me in mind..

I am sick of your false representing me and lieing about what I believe, we have been over this 1000 times. I AM NOT RESPONDING TO YOU ANYMORE PER YOUR REQUEST AND FOR THE FACT THAT IT DOES NOT DO ANYTHING.

Now make up your mind..
 
D

doulos

Guest
#56
That is only if your interpretation is what it means.No place in scripture (old or new) does it ever say there will be a time when the last gentile will be saved and thus something happens because of it.. Thus this interpretation falls apart when it comes to scripture.
Brother the fulness of the Gentiles has to occur before the Lord's return. Why because there is time no more at the last trump, it is finished the mystery of God is over. (Rev10:6-7) When do the Jews recognize the one they pierced is Christ?
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Doesn’t this occur at the last trump? Once again doesn’t that mean time is no longer and the mystery of God is finished?

However, Scripture does speek of a time, when Gentiles were told to have control, over jerusalem, israel and the world. At the end of that AGE (the age spoken of by Jesus and the disciples in matt 24) That gentile dominion will be destroyed by Christ.

It also fulfills Dan 9, 2 and 7. at which time, All Isreal will be saved (Dan 9, Rom 11)

prophesy must be taken together, not just one section. It all goes together!
The time of the gentiles is the time when gentiles controls Jerusalem the fullness of the genntiles pertains to the full number of gentiles entering the church. The subject of this thread is about the fullness entering the church not the time when the gentiles control Jerusalem. Let’s not muddy the aters by confusing the two separate issues.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#57
You do realize the concept of TWO covenants, right? how one is conditional: the first and the second is ETERNAL: salvation by faith in JESUS..............................................
Hate it when keyboards don’t work right I can sympathise
.
How was it fulfilled in 70AD. If plemora means the blessings being poured out on the church that occurred with the crucifixion and resurrection or at the latest Pentecost.
because that is not what plemora is referring to but the fulfillment of prophecy that is enabled by the Jews blindness which is done after the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. it not referring to blessings upon the church... don't know where you got that idea.............
be void means ended woulded that make God a liar? Are you serious?
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Making the first old is not merging it with the new. While it is true it waxeth away and is ready to vanish it hasn’’t yet or it would not be an eternal covenat.
are you serious? you don't see how one is eternal and the other is NOT?



It has never been about animal sacrifices regardless of whether one lived pre or post crucifixion and resurection it has always been about the shed blood of Christ, the prefect and only acceptable sacrifice.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1Co 10:1 -4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea ; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The Old testament saints were not saved by sacrifices but by faith in Christ!
yes Abraham's covenant is different than the one God made with Israel through MOSES and his laws............ even during Moses' time God told them that. ..... the OT prophets knew and prophecies about Jesus. however many were BLIND to it.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#58
Galatians 3 [SUP]16 [/SUP]Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”[SUP][i][/SUP] who is Christ. ............................................................................ covenant made to ONE seed not all the SEEDS of descendents of Abraham.....
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
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#59
The truth is God will restore the kingdom to Israel in the millennial reign of Christ after they have born their shame for rejecting Jesus.

The fulness of the Gentiles be come in means when the Gentiles are no longer offered salvation by God.The same chapter says that all Israel will be saved which means physical Israel for not all Jews are spiritually saved.

God choose the nation of Israel in the Old Testament to show the world God's ways and to have a nation that the savior Jesus would come from.Also that nation would be the only nation that would have salvation and any Gentile that would want to be a part of her would have salvation.

Jesus said that salvation is of the Jews,and it is the throne of David that is forever,which Jesus sits on that throne,and the Church is the Jews Church and the Gentiles were added to the Church and became a Jew inward.

The Church does not replace Israel for the Church was started by Jesus a Jew and Jews continued it after He was gone to heaven,and Jesus said He did not come for the Gentiles but for the lost sheep of Israel.The Church is a Jewish beginning and is still a Jewish Church which God allowed the Gentiles to be a part of it.

God said in the New Testament that He did not forsake the Jews and there is always a remnant that follow Him in the truth,and the Bible says that the Jews are blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord,which means recognize Jesus as the savior as a nation and not only the few that followed Him when Jesus was on earth.

Because of the Jews rejection of Jesus,God allowed the Jews to be scattered off their land in to the nations as was what He told them when God first dealt with them as a punishment for not being in the truth.The Jews were scattered in to the nations because of their rejection of Jesus but God said He would gather them back to their land after they have borne their shame.God said He hid His face from the Jews but would deal with them in the future.

The Church started which would be both Jew and Gentile.The Jews were scattered in to the nations which hindered them from being in the truth that God wanted for they must be on their land as a nation before God will bring them to the truth,but individually they could come to Jesus,but as a nation they must acknowledge Jesus for God's plan to move forward.

God said He would eventually put the Jews back on their land and establish it as a nation so He can work with them to bring therm to the truth.

The Gentiles would be offered salvation until they cannot repent of their sins which will happen when they take the mark of the beast and follow the antichrist.

God will send the Jews 2 witnesses to turn their hearts to the truth that Jesus is their savior.

God said He will gather all nations together against Jerusalem to battle and when they go against Israel God will fight the world and save Israel.At that time the Jews will acknowledge Jesus as their savior and they will then see Jesus and He will save them.

God said He will make a full end of all Gentile nations but He will not make a full end of Israel although they will not be wholly unpunished.God will leave a 6th part of the world that fought against Israel and the kingdom will be restored to Israel,which is all Israel shall be saved and the Jews and Gentiles that were with Jesus shall rule over the people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

Jesus said salvation is of the Jews and the Church is a Jewish Church and the Gentiles were brought in that covenant but the Church does not replace Israel and God will bring the Jews to the truth and the Gentiles one day will not be offered salvation one day.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#60
Zone I already reported you last post. You told me to leave you alone.




And numerous other times!

Now you do the same! or I will keep reporting every post you make with me in mind..

I am sick of your false representing me and lieing about what I believe, we have been over this 1000 times. I AM NOT RESPONDING TO YOU ANYMORE PER YOUR REQUEST AND FOR THE FACT THAT IT DOES NOT DO ANYTHING.

Now make up your mind..
okay EG.
i'll stop posting to you directly.
:)