The Gospel Truth of the Water and the Spirit.

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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#1
#1
This journey we walk with Christ is a long journey. And mostly everyone, begins their journey with Him at the cross. But, isn't that the end? This is where your faith and walk with Christ should begin;

Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John to be baptized by him. But John protested strenuously, having in mind to prevent Him, saying, It is I who have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me? But Jesus replied to him, Permit it just now; for this is the fitting way for [both of] us to fulfill all righteousness [that is, to perform completely whatever is right]. Then he permitted Him. And, when Jesus was baptized, He went up at once out of the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he [John] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on Him. And behold, a voice from heaven said, This is My Son, My Beloved, in Whom I delight! -Matthew 3:13-17


This is where it all began. Because this was the reason He died on that cross. Because He had to. Because He took our sins at His baptism, and paid for them on the cross.

For the wages which sin pays is death, but the [bountiful] free gift of God is eternal life through (in union with) Jesus Christ our Lord. -Romans 6:23

But wasn't Christ sinless? You see, there's more to this than His death. I can expound more on this, but I feel that I should not. But, if anyone has any questions, feel free to pm me. I'll explain everything to those who truly want to hear.

God bless you all and please do not start any arguments. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm just here to spread this wonderful Gospel that the Lord has given since the beginning of time itself.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#2
Sep 4, 2012
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#2
ElizabethPeter said:
God bless you all and please do not start any arguments. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm just here to spread this wonderful Gospel that the Lord has given since the beginning of time itself.
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GOD bless you for your efforts. You have wonderful insight for your age.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#5
Jul 28, 2012
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#5
ElizabethPeter said:
oldhermit said:
The Old Testament, and the preachings of the disciples. Everything is there for a reason, and the truth is hidden.
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That does not answer the question. Jesus said with regard to his baptism that it was a matter of fulfilling all righteousness. There is never anything said in scripture that connects our sin to his baptism.
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mystdancer50

mystdancer50

Senior Member
#6
Feb 26, 2012
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At His baptism, Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove. I see nothing about our sins coming on Him at that moment.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#7
#7
oldhermit said:
ElizabethPeter said:
That does not answer the question. Jesus said with regard to his baptism that it was a matter of fulfilling all righteousness. There is never anything said in scripture that connects our sin to his baptism.
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Yes, fulfilling all righteousness. He said that both He and John would fulfill all righteousness. Did you even take a second and think about what Christ was talking? What righteousness? Why His baptism? Did you even think about all of that?
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#8
#8
mystdancer50 said:
At His baptism, Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove. I see nothing about our sins coming on Him at that moment.
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So why did the Holy Spirit descend? Why did the heavens open for the first time? All some sort of symbolic act? Why would Christ come to symbolize something, when in reality, everything that happened from the beginning of time itself was a symbol of His coming?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#9
Jul 28, 2012
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#9
ElizabethPeter said:
Yes, fulfilling all righteousness. He said that both He and John would fulfill all righteousness. Did you even take a second and think about what Christ was talking? What righteousness? Why His baptism? Did you even think about all of that?
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It was not just Jesus' baptism that fulfilled all righteousness but one's submission to the will of God to be baptized because God had commanded. It was his obedience to God in being baptized that fulfills righteousness.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#10
#10
oldhermit said:
ElizabethPeter said:
It was not just Jesus' baptism that fulfilled all righteousness but one's submission to the will of God to be baptized because God had commanded. It was his obedience to God in being baptized that fulfills righteousness.
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Did Christ say that? Back me up with some scriptures. Be baptized into Christ? Be baptized into His life.
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mystdancer50

mystdancer50

Senior Member
#12
Feb 26, 2012
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#12
So, this is what righteousness means in that verse:

1. in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
2. the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God
3. integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting
4. in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due
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Based on this, you're claiming that at that moment, Jesus took on our sin? Why then Gethsemane? If Jesus already had our sin on Him, He could not very well ask that the cup be passed from Him, for He would then have to go to judgment for being a sinner. Our sins came on Him on the Cross, when He stepped forward and obeyed God and took our debt and paid it.

Why the baptism, you ask? Because it shows humility and obedience, that's why.

The following was taken from Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Concise):

Verses 13-17 Christ's gracious condescensions are so surprising, that even the strongest believers at first can hardly believe them; so deep and mysterious, that even those who know his mind well, are apt to start objections against the will of Christ. And those who have much of the Spirit of God while here, see that they need to apply to Christ for more. Christ does not deny that John had need to be baptized of him, yet declares he will now be baptized of John. Christ is now in a state of humiliation. Our Lord Jesus looked upon it as well becoming him to fulfil all righteousness, to own every Divine institution, and to show his readiness to comply with all God's righteous precepts. In and through Christ, the heavens are opened to the children of men. This descent of the Spirit upon Christ, showed that he was endued with his sacred influences without measure. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. At Christ's baptism there was a manifestation of the three Persons in the sacred Trinity. The Father confirming the Son to be Mediator; the Son solemnly entering upon the work; the Holy Spirit descending on him, to be through his mediation communicated to his people. In Him our spiritual sacrifices are acceptable, for He is the altar that ( 1 Peter. 2:5 ) consuming fire, but in Christ, a reconciled Father. This is the sum of the gospel, which we must by faith cheerfully embrace.
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I suggest you do a little more research into word meanings and such before you run with your opinion to the world. I believe that you have a very firm grasp on things, but at times you take your opinion and believe it to be truth. Be careful what you state as absolute truth.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#13
#13
oldhermit said:
What is you over all understanding of baptism?
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My baptism, a symbolic act. Christ's baptism, there's a lot to say. To put it with terms, that's where He took our sin.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#14
#14
mystdancer50 said:
So, this is what righteousness means in that verse:



Based on this, you're claiming that at that moment, Jesus took on our sin? Why then Gethsemane? If Jesus already had our sin on Him, He could not very well ask that the cup be passed from Him, for He would then have to go to judgment for being a sinner. Our sins came on Him on the Cross, when He stepped forward and obeyed God and took our debt and paid it.

Why the baptism, you ask? Because it shows humility and obedience, that's why.

The following was taken from Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Concise):



I suggest you do a little more research into word meanings and such before you run with your opinion to the world. I believe that you have a very firm grasp on things, but at times you take your opinion and believe it to be truth. Be careful what you state as absolute truth.
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And I suggest you read the Old Testament. I don't use the dictionary, I use the Bible.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#16
#16
I'm not here to argue. Pm me if you want, other than that, I'm out. There's no point explaining, if it goes out the other ear. And I know, I probably sound like a hypocrite, right? Just speaking the truth. We all want to be right, but in the end, we're all wrong. Only Christ is right. So, trust in Him.
 
mystdancer50

mystdancer50

Senior Member
#17
Feb 26, 2012
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#17
ElizabethPeter said:
And I suggest you read the Old Testament. I don't use the dictionary, I use the Bible.
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You are rude at times. Take the counsel of older people if you expect them to take yours. Admit that you don't have all the answers, even though you feel like you do. Listen. Have a teachable heart. Then God can truly use you as He longs to do. You claim to have Scriptural backing to things, but you want people to PM you to see it. Show where the OT says that our sins came on Christ at His baptism. Explain, then, as I asked, the reason for Gethsemane. Instead of replying as you did above, reply to the meat of the post, not the last statement.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#18
#18
oldhermit said:
But you still have not provided me with a passage that tells us this.
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i can show you through the OT. But, not here. Pm me if you want to know.
 
mystdancer50

mystdancer50

Senior Member
#19
Feb 26, 2012
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#19
ElizabethPeter said:
I'm not here to argue. Pm me if you want, other than that, I'm out. There's no point explaining, if it goes out the other ear. And I know, I probably sound like a hypocrite, right? Just speaking the truth. We all want to be right, but in the end, we're all wrong. Only Christ is right. So, trust in Him.
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You speak the truth as you see it and refuse the counsel of others, claiming they are arguing. You want PMs so you can't be refuted in public and so your version of the truth will remain untested by those that are younger in the faith than you. These are dangerous things to do.

I have no issue with you. I think that you make some really good points. I also think that you have a great deal of pride, as I did at your age. We must have a teachable heart. That is key. If you believe you're always right and everyone else is wrong, you will never learn anything.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#20
#20
mystdancer50 said:
You are rude at times. Take the counsel of older people if you expect them to take yours. Admit that you don't have all the answers, even though you feel like you do. Listen. Have a teachable heart. Then God can truly use you as He longs to do. You claim to have Scriptural backing to things, but you want people to PM you to see it. Show where the OT says that our sins came on Christ at His baptism. Explain, then, as I asked, the reason for Gethsemane. Instead of replying as you did above, reply to the meat of the post, not the last statement.
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i'm not being rude, just rational. You said the exact same thing, and I'm the one here who's supposedly "rude"
Sorry if I came out that way. I apologize. God bless.
And I said pm me, because then I'd only have to deal with one person. Understand where I'm going with this?
 
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